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fivetosix
05 Mar 19 00:26
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Date Joined: 26 Nov 02
| Topic/replies: 88 | Blogger: fivetosix's blog
just wondering if ralph will request gosden  stoute and maybe godolphin to boycott arc tracks during flat season proper maybe plate day at newcastle.its easy to bully small struggling trainers of class 6 horses in the winter months  how many of these horses does ralph train. i am sure he wont be advising the big boys to boycott races i know what he will be told  yet again using small trainers in the month of march to do the dirty work and using the bully boy tactic  disgrace
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Report mrcombustible March 5, 2019 8:15 AM GMT
Couldn't agree more.
Beckett should call of the thugs that are threatening Danny Brock.
Report the.mad.dog.man March 5, 2019 8:18 AM GMT
owners should take there horses away from becketts
Report sageform March 5, 2019 8:18 AM GMT
If he is organising a protest he is breaking the law. Withdrawing labour en masse is against the law. I know they are self employed but I think the law applies. I was a farmer for most of my working life and a member of the NFU. We were told very strongly that getting together in a meeting and agreeing to withdraw our product as a protest about prices was a serious criminal offence.
Report posy March 5, 2019 8:56 AM GMT
I agree with all comments and it seems to me that Beckett and others may have broken the law by seeking to pressurise trainers not to declare runners and jockeys not to accept mounts. Struthers should be taking legal advice as a) it seems to be serious bullying and b) an illegal restraint of trade . Well done Danny Brock; more jockeys need to show a similar degree of courage to ignore Beckett's bullyboy tactics.
Report salmon spray March 5, 2019 10:03 AM GMT
Whilst I take the point that if it was a Trade Union v an employer it would be illegal I doubt whether this is as the trainers are more like consumers so it would be similar to consumer boycotts of Amazon and McDonalds which have never been legally challenged as far as I know. If they try and coerce people like Brock that might be another matter depending on what form the coercion takes.
Report sageform March 5, 2019 11:58 AM GMT
Salmon, each of them can decide what they like but it is illegal to try to bully others into following your lead. Going back to my farming analogy, I could decide to withhold product any time I chose but if I picked up the phone to more than two other producers (from memory 4 was the number deemed to be an illegal conspiracy) and suggested they did the same, I have committed an offence. In practice it was calling meetings that led to prosecutions. Obviously food is different to racing. The internet has also changed things but they are on dangerous ground.
Report CROPSICK March 5, 2019 12:16 PM GMT
will they boycott finals day on good friday?....dont think so
Report fivetosix March 5, 2019 12:43 PM GMT
Surely be better for Ralph to encourage the trainers of class 6 horses to boycott Good Friday  and maybe he will order horological to do likewise
Report fivetosix March 5, 2019 12:45 PM GMT
I actually meant that Ralph would order godolphin to do likewise
Report isleham March 5, 2019 12:48 PM GMT
arc are a rancid organisation controlling a large part of the fixture list and need to be taken down a great deal..making big money out of horse racing with giving little back..look how far chepstow and doncaster have sunk under them
Report fivetosix March 5, 2019 12:52 PM GMT
Fully agree but why use small struggling trainers and jockeys to do the dirty work  surely a boycott on Good Friday with top trainers would be more effective than boycott of low grade Wednesday that only effects those at grass root level
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:06 PM GMT
Agree with fivetosix on this as these meetings are the bread and butter to small trainers.
Report GEORGE.B March 5, 2019 1:10 PM GMT
Which is why they should ALL be in on the boycott, to at least ensure they continue to have their bread and butter!
Report GEORGE.B March 5, 2019 1:11 PM GMT
the way Arc prize money levels are going, they'll be having to make do with gruel!
Report theres only one best tonic March 5, 2019 1:12 PM GMT
Remember that great toff Willie Haggas urging everyone to boycott a Redcar meeting during Royal Ascot one year. No doubt he was living it up in some Arabs box whilst expecting others to boycott their bread and butter meetings in order to massage his ego
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:13 PM GMT
When you say ALL george do you mean all trainers at all meetings?
Report GEORGE.B March 5, 2019 1:14 PM GMT
if that's what it takes, sparrow
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:16 PM GMT
Haggas also was active in advocating a boycott of Yarmouth races and made a sarcastic reference towards Christine Dunnett who had said this was her local meeting and her owners expected their horses to run as usual.
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:17 PM GMT
Then I completely agree George.
Report sofiakenny March 5, 2019 1:17 PM GMT
Rafe is a spendid  chap and it warms my heart that he cares so much about the untermensch.
Report 1st time poster March 5, 2019 1:21 PM GMT
17 runners,fair play to the trainers,jocks they,ll be doing well to hide the non jiggers in plain sight Laugh
Report sageform March 5, 2019 1:28 PM GMT
I love people who think they can make water run up hills. If the levy funding is falling, prize money will fall. You may argue that the funds should be taken from the top 10% of races rather than the bottom 20% but it has to come from somewhere. A 5% betting tax perhaps?
Report posy March 5, 2019 1:37 PM GMT
I don't actually know Ralph however am instinctively put off by his affectation in insisting his name is pronounced Rafe. The problem surely is a matter of supply and demand;at the moment there are both too many race meetings and low level horses. Cull the fixture list and bump up the prize money for the then reduced list would seem to be a reasonable way to progress. I see no reason to expect Arena or any other racecourse owner to subsidise the sport.
As I've intimated before it is unreasonable for a wealthy ,blue blooded trainer to dictate to the journeyman trainer where he should race his horses. Arena must be thinking of looking for further options to profitably exploit their landbank.
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:42 PM GMT
sageform    05 Mar 19 13:28 
I love people who think they can make water run up hills. If the levy funding is falling, prize money will fall. You may argue that the funds should be taken from the top 10% of races rather than the bottom 20% but it has to come from somewhere. A 5% betting tax perhaps?




Taking from the top is exactly where the money can come from and racing is long overdue a redistribution of wealth. When you look at the ridiculous amounts of money being thrown around by wealthy owners you can see that the sport is far from poverty stricken.
Report wondersobright March 5, 2019 1:43 PM GMT
The problem surely is a matter of supply and demand;at the moment there are both too many race meetings and low level horses. Cull the fixture list and bump up the prize money for the then reduced list would seem to be a reasonable way to progress. I see no reason to expect Arena or any other racecourse owner to subsidise the sport.

correct

they needn't cry foul when they have few/no runners turning up for some of their meetings, particularly weekends

owners/trainers need the racecourses to play ball & racecourses need owners/trainers to reciprocate
Report wondersobright March 5, 2019 1:45 PM GMT
sparrow if you do that then you will completely disincentivize the smaller spending owner into having a decent horse, and you'll end up with ireland's problem x10
Report sparrow March 5, 2019 1:50 PM GMT
The present situation has to be tackled wonders and whatever path is chosen then some will lose out.
Report duncan idaho March 5, 2019 2:25 PM GMT
fair play to Red Ralph and his comrades...power to the people  Angry
Report mrcombustible March 5, 2019 4:26 PM GMT
Ralph is like Rees-Mogg. Good at getting idiots to jump off a cliff while he will be ok regardless.
Report duncan idaho March 5, 2019 4:37 PM GMT
comrade combustible knows
Report sofiakenny March 5, 2019 10:51 PM GMT
aye...a tory encouraging strike action..you couldn't make it up!Laugh
Report Brian March 6, 2019 8:26 AM GMT
Posted this observation on the Lingfield thread but perhaps more apt here.


Interesting to think back to the Stable Lad's strike in 1975 when a lot of the strikers were sacked by the Trainers once the strike was over.
I wouldn't be surprised if a stable lad's strike today would have a similar outcome but the Trainer's Club think it's alright for them to strike and apply pressure on others to comply.
Report sparrow March 6, 2019 8:51 AM GMT
Brian, remember that stable lads strike very well. Here is an article about that strike from the Guardian.


When Newmarket's Guineas Meeting opened on Thursday 1 May, 1975, horse racing was, for once, not the main talking point around the course. A pay dispute between Newmarket stable lads and their bosses, the trainers, threatened to overshadow the first Classics of the season.
At the time a local stable lad's average wage was £28 a week (£140 in today's money), scarcely enough for them to buy more than food and the odd pint of beer. Months of talks between the Transport and General Workers' Union Ð which counted around half of the seven hundred or so local stable staff as members Ð and the Trainers' Federation, had failed to secure a deal. The union finally called its members out on strike.

Within the racing community there was no shortage of sympathy for the strike. 'Nearly all of us were in favour of what the stable lads were doing,' Willie Carson, who rode at the meeting, recalled recently. 'A lot of us had been stable boys ourselves and knew how badly they were treated. We wanted them to win their fight.'

When Newmarket opened its doors, pickets tried to stop anyone from entering and when this strategy failed, around two hundred strikers headed for the course itself where they staged a sit-in. According to Carson this is when the atmosphere soured. 'There was an agreement that they would not interrupt the racing and they went and broke their word. One or two of them must have egged the others on and they piled on to the course and tried to stop the horses going to post.' The police finally moved the stable lads on after they had delayed the first race of the day Ð but they were in no mood to end their protest there. Carson was making his way towards the start line for the second race when angry strikers surrounded him: 'I was on a horse called Pericet, a little coward who never wanted to win anything. He pulled right up and I got hit with my own stick. "What are you doing?" I said, "I was with you lot, but now you're bloody attacking me!"'

A group of jockeys led by Lester Piggott, retaliated by charging at the strikers in an effort to break up the protest. Meanwhile, Carson remounted. 'I hacked back up to the start, turned to the crowd and shouted, "If you want to see horse racing get rid of this lot!" A lot of them took my advice. They ran over and starting hitting the stable lads with their binoculars and whatever else they had at hand.'

As fights broke out, the crowd started pushing the protesters off the course and onto a heath near the starting stalls. The crowd were asked to return to the grandstand and the police eventually succeeded in clearing the course. Carson was later reprimanded for his actions: 'The next day I was pulled into the steward's room and given a dressing-down by the chief constable of Cambridgeshire. He told me that he should have arrested me for inciting a riot.'

The disruption continued and officials arrived on the Saturday morning Ð 2,000 Guineas day Ð to find 15 potholes in the middle of the course. Strikers had stolen a bulldozer during the night, driven it through a fence and torn up the turf at the mile gate. 'Because of the damage they had to start the 2,000 Guineas with a flag rather than from the stalls,' Carson recalls. 'Frankie Dettori's dad was riding Bolkonski and he got a flyer and went on to win.'

Bolkonski's lad, Tom Dickie, did not accompany him to the winner's enclosure. Dickie considered winning trainer Henry Cecil a good boss but summed up his plight by saying: 'I am on strike because I am expected to support a wife and kid on the £28 I take home every week. I don't want to spend another 15 years in racing and only end up like I am now.'

The dispute continued until an agreement was reached in July 1975. It proved rather hollow, however, when 71 of the strikers were sacked on their return to work. In the wake of the strike, the Stable Lads' Association was set up and it now deals directly with pay disputes rather than the TGWU. Stable lads now have an average weekly salary of £180.

Carson believes the changes have been for the better. 'Looking back, somebody had to do something for the stable lads and the strike did change things. They are taken care of now. Still, it will never be a career job. The only lads who will get rich are those who become jockeys, or the few that look after the champions and see a share of the winnings. It will always be an existence rather than a career.'
Report sparrow March 6, 2019 8:55 AM GMT
The above article was written in 2001.
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