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the dealer
06 Feb 19 23:35
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Date Joined: 31 May 07
| Topic/replies: 23,652 | Blogger: the dealer's blog
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Report the dealer February 9, 2019 3:06 PM GMT
my point exactly foxy
Report asparagus February 9, 2019 3:19 PM GMT
It does seem pretty straightforward though,  if the only positive tests are in Mccain's yard once all the swabs are done, there is no reason not to restart immediately.
It's only if more positive tests are found that it will require further consideration.
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 3:24 PM GMT
why blake,harvey plunket say if you test 2000 horses on any day at any time you,ll get positive tests, it can come and go in 48hrs ,so your only clear on the day your tested,unless we go back to last Monday where if your vaccinated your clear,for that they need a reason for mcains failing after allegedly been vaccinated
Report RothmanMike February 9, 2019 3:29 PM GMT
Enough already. Cry
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 3:34 PM GMT
as a newly qualified expert Laugh, wouldn't there be much more chance like the 3 original mcains horses of having a positive test if taken shortly after running eyeballs out in a race ,rather than just getting up out of the hay after a goodnights kip,
Report dambuster February 9, 2019 4:40 PM GMT
I was in Newmarket earlier, it wasn't exactly Chernobyl. Horses and people all out and about
Report foxy February 9, 2019 4:49 PM GMT
did you call in at the butchers for some powters sausages ?
Report dambuster February 9, 2019 4:58 PM GMT
Newmarket sausages yum yum
Report foxy February 9, 2019 5:02 PM GMT
i bring plenty back with me when i visit newmarket as you say yum yum
Report chavman February 9, 2019 5:45 PM GMT
is it worse than man flu
Report sparrow February 9, 2019 5:51 PM GMT
Now then have the experts sorted out this problem yet?
If so a certain Mrs May requires some help in clearing up a mess some people have lumbered her with.
Report foxy February 9, 2019 5:58 PM GMT
Steady on sparrow even the geniuses on this forum couldn’t sort that mess out.
Report domino14 February 9, 2019 6:06 PM GMT
Trident you talk some absolute twaddle.

There is no problems with anyone's horses bar McCains.

The horses that were next to his horses at Ayr, Ludlow and Wolves in the stable yard have come back clear.

That idiot Menzies created hysteria in getting a further 50 yards locked down. They were locked down before they had even tested her horses and as expected sod all wrong with her horses, a Newmarket trainer summed her up very well this morning. Her horses didn't even have a temperature, one coughed as it pulled up at the top of the gallops yesterday and she was ringing everyone saying mine have got it, blah bla blha cause one horse coughed. Bloody idiot of a women.

Racing will definitely go ahead on Wednesday and NTD and the head of Rossdales were bang right in what they said.

If the Animal Health Trust, have twice told the BHA there is a million to one chance of a horse catching it from those that had it, and they actually advised the BHA to go ahead with racing, but the BHA had already put over 60% of trainers and 7 courses on lockdown.

Huge over reaction and thankfully least racing will be back Wednesday.
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 6:06 PM GMT
looks like there might not have been a problem but unless they tell a few porkies, eat some humble pie,there,s going to have a hell of a problem sorting out the problem that never excisted, now that's a problem LaughLaugh,
think mcain will offer himself up as a sacrificial lamb saying there  sort of mix up over vaccinations
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 6:08 PM GMT
domino and what about mcains horses getting it although allegedly vaccinated, do they just forget about that and tell anyone else who may think a horse is infected to keep quiet
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 6:10 PM GMT
the story started lets not forget and why mcain piped up because a vaccine didn't work,does it work or doesn't it
Report sparrow February 9, 2019 6:16 PM GMT
It seems like that May woman will have to wait a bit longer, foxy.
Report domino14 February 9, 2019 6:26 PM GMT
1st Time Poster

Let me tell you something, when a human has a flu jab it doesn't mean THEY CANT GET FLU !! it just means they should be more immune to it and it is less harmful.

This is exactly the same with Equine Flu, every single yard at points of the year will have horses with a sniffle, runny noses, coughing, it happens. All horses are vaccinated and what happens is they are off their grub for a few days, high temperatures and discharge, it is of no risk to the horses long term well being and fixes itself within a week or two. When a horse is not vaccinated it can't fight it, and can become very ill.

Now there are over 100 different vaccines used by vets and clearly the vaccine used by McCain's vet has been less preventable to withstand this strain that has been contracted by 6 horses in his yard. Now he has 156 horses that have been tested and 6 positive, the rest negative. These 6 horses are no longer on the yard and were jabbed around the same time with the same vaccine.

The horses that were next to his horses at the track and those who ran in it's races are clear. It's a bit like you having a cold, if you sneeze on me, you MAY pass on a cold, but it's not certain.

Horses are no different.

The BHA were advised by the animal health trust NOT TO SUSPEND RACING, on their initial findings but the BHA had already locked down yards and courses, and sort of made a rod for their own back. Then when that dozy women started shouting about her horses had flu, the BHA further panicked and without evidence of her doing so, put 3 more courses on halt and 50 more yards, YET THERE WERE NO SIGNS OF HER HORSES ACTUALLY BEING SICK! The animal health trust rushed her swabs and were 100% clear.

Yards have coughs all the time, especially in winter, with young horses around. Normally sick horses go into isolation, very few people would actually take bloods or swab them. Donald McCain for whatever reason decided otherwise.

The fact of the matter is, a small section of his yard has a virus, but it has caused a massive overreaction.

The Animal Health Trusts bill in all this will be huge, the BHA have ignored all advice they were given by top vets and the animal health trust. Two trainers in Newmarket were placed on lockdown yesterday and only able to  exercise their horses after 12.30 today. However at 11.15 this am the AHT knew that RM's horses were 100% fine. Quite rightly one trainer rung the BHA and said why am I on lockdown if her horses were fine, and they couldn't get a straight answer, just a errr its procedure.

The AHT arrived in their yard at 1pm after 1st lot had been out and took swabs of all horses, all temperatures were normal, and they apologised to the trainer for wasting his time, but they were following orders from the BHA, although they had already told the BHA it was a million to one, a horse outside of that yard could have got anything.

From what said trainer has told me, the AHT have told the BHA if they wish to continue this pointless swabbing of horses that wont be affected after this weekend, they will need to finance and organise it themselves, as the AHT viewpoint is there is NO CHANCE of spread and there is no need for lockdown of yards and postponing of races, the same directive they gave on Thursday, yesterday and again today.
Report 1st time poster February 9, 2019 7:29 PM GMT
thanks for the info
Report STATSMAN February 9, 2019 8:06 PM GMT
Are you sure the AHT will charge for their service?
Report SontaranStratagem February 9, 2019 8:08 PM GMT
According to the BBC its the end of horse racing and everything is on lockdown CrazyLaugh

Hopefully by Wednesday it'll all be back up and running
Report sparrow February 9, 2019 8:27 PM GMT
SontaranStratagem    09 Feb 19 20:08 
According to the BBC its the end of horse racing and everything is on lockdown







When did the BBC announce this as I appear to have missed it?
Report SontaranStratagem February 9, 2019 8:31 PM GMT
The way they are reporting it on their sports page Sparrow

The wording makes it sound like its a lot worse than it is
Report sparrow February 9, 2019 8:41 PM GMT
Well personally speaking I have no idea how bad it is so am not in a position to argue about their reports.
But if you know more than they do then fair enough.
Report salmon spray February 9, 2019 10:59 PM GMT
It's supposedly endemic in Florida. Some good racing from Tampa Bay tonight. I think the Americans have learned to to live with it.
Report Kriskin February 9, 2019 11:04 PM GMT

Feb 9, 2019 -- 4:59PM, salmon spray wrote:


It's supposedly endemic in Florida. Some good racing from Tampa Bay tonight. I think the Americans have learned to to live with it.


Also Gulfstream is on.  Business as usual

Report salmon spray February 9, 2019 11:06 PM GMT
Quite.
Report ashleigh February 10, 2019 9:04 AM GMT
1500 samples now been tested, no more confirmed cases as of now.Happy
Report Facts February 10, 2019 10:10 AM GMT
Ridiculous over reaction by BHA.
Report isleham February 10, 2019 12:23 PM GMT
The industry is gradually waking up to the fact there should have never been a total shutdown..pc gone mad
Report Trident February 10, 2019 2:10 PM GMT
Not 1500 samples back 720 is official. Plus altogether 5000 in total to be tested. 1.01 that racing doesnt go ahead on Wednesday. Possible for Saturday, but this is a huge task.
Report Macster2 February 10, 2019 2:22 PM GMT
720 officially, but theyve had just over 1500 checked with nothing negative, just not made official yet.
the first 2000 or so was party to the McCain yard, so by end of today we should have an idea that there was nothing, and maybe if its as infectious as they believe then maybe McCain has been issued a dodgy batch or maybe different supply who knows.
The next 50 odd stables shut down was a result of Menzies yard which have got negative samples so surely they should come back all clear and that was just reactive to Menzies possibly having a positive in the yard.
They should declare tomorrow for wednesday, whats to lose if anything comes to light in the following 48 hours cancel wednesday if not let them race. At that point it will have been 6 days
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 2:40 PM GMT
trainers,jocks,pundits were all saying yesterday that even without this so called out break it would not be unrealistic to expect most,lots of yards to have the odd horse with flu, if by end of next week we test 5 ,000 horse and all are negative maybe we,ll start questioning the test, Laugh,
we can go around in circles over this,they could be testing horse with runny nose,s,mucus, dull coat, etc,etc but because they past swab text considered not to have flu, as in last week if you,d been vaccinated you hadn't got flu
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 2:44 PM GMT
as hen knight said this morning horses in the past under performing, runny noses, low bloods,temperature etc,etc could well have had equine flu but no one tested for it and trainers just waited for it to pass, because they believed 100% in the flu vaccine, it had to go down as something else
Report yer ma February 10, 2019 2:45 PM GMT
There’s a contradiction here in bha approach in that they’ve gone fiull blown lockdown and test but vis-Avis McCain yard, they’re not being very candid.  6 positives - who are they, what’s their history, were they boxed together. Moreover, what were their vaccines and have you investigated the voracity of the vaccinations (ie. do they match vet time records & vacc codes). If this turns out to be a traceable biosecurity fck up at one yard the industry should rightly be raging.
Report the dealer February 10, 2019 2:49 PM GMT
I think you might be close to the truth
Report yer ma February 10, 2019 2:53 PM GMT
Re. Previous post on Hen knight, the prob with that logic is no other positive tests & youre not telling me some of those aren’t coughing/runny nosed.   If I was a betting man
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 2:55 PM GMT
lack of statement,interviews, from mcain nyard speaks volumes, balls up theory at yard imo, would explain taking swab tests for flu that no yard, vet ever do according to recent days, batch of horses probably missed out,wrong vaccine etc
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 2:59 PM GMT
this is the problem the bha have now created does anyone seriously believe that if any top yard has a few sidelined 0 to 70 rated horse,s suffering from flu there going to flag it up to the bha, a few twister for one has basically already said they,d say nothing
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 3:03 PM GMT
that loon sykes on luck today was saying that horses in mcains yard,menzies yard and those  in contact with them havnt been treated any differently regarding tests,results than any of the other 2000, and it was up to trainers what horses they did or didn't swab
Report sixtwosix February 10, 2019 3:08 PM GMT
From the original unanimous 'it was the correct' call , it appears to be moving away.

It reminds of every incident in GB PLC , total over reaction , shut  everything down , no concern for effects on the population affected.

Be it be this issue , alleged drones over airports , incidents on motorways , for the past decade at least this country is controlled by idiots.
Report Trident February 10, 2019 3:10 PM GMT
I believe Many horses have been running in the last few months with flu like symptoms. How has the general public got confiedence in the Horse Racing prodcuct if horses are running not feeling their best?! Thats a problem for me.
Report dambuster February 10, 2019 3:11 PM GMT
These idiots have got into there respective positions via Nepotism
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 3:15 PM GMT
the one thing ive learned this week and the one thing trainers,vets seem to agree on is if theres a possible problem in your yard the last thing if at all you test for is flu
yet mcain who under his own admission had no eye,test evidence to think his horses were unhealthy straight away turned to the terst no other trainer would have done, did he have a big punt on one of these horses that he thought underperformed to such a degree he knew something was amiss, or more likely did he no,think there,d been some sort of misunderstanding,balls up while getting his horses vaccinated,only explanation in my eyes
Report Trident February 10, 2019 3:17 PM GMT
Do you really want to be backing a horse thats had a common cold in the last week or so...? Im not talking about its celing ability.
Next time your horse finishes down the field from a prevoius run good run... I think the public need to accept horses are like us. When we are not feeling well we dont operate the same..

If only horses could talk and tell us how they are feeling that day.........
Report ashleigh February 10, 2019 5:10 PM GMT
bha to decide on monday evening if racing returns on wednesday.
Report 1st time poster February 10, 2019 5:27 PM GMT
still 3000 to test 2/3 days wait for results, do they mean their going to forget all about their wild goose chase and just carry on, to follow their logic /plan you,d be looking at least 10/14 days
Report ribero1 February 10, 2019 11:10 PM GMT
Just read tomorrows post,Mottershead done a 2 page spread on it,you'd think these twerps had averted world war 3 reading this rubbish and they're all in line for the Victoria cross,pass the sickbag.
Report onlooker February 10, 2019 11:13 PM GMT
^  Indeed  -  and NOW ...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/47193751

Four new positive tests for equine flu have been returned in vaccinated thoroughbreds at the Newmarket yard of flat trainer Simon Crisford.

Racing is on hold until at least Wednesday while the British Horseracing Authority tests horses nationwide.

The suspension came after the discovery on Thursday of six cases of equine flu at Donald McCain's Cheshire stable.

Crisford's yard was named so "the Newmarket community is aware" where the infection has been found, the BHA said.

The yard is one of the 174 to be tested because runners from the stable competed at the fixture at Newcastle on 5 February, which had been identified as a potential risk fixture.
Report salmon spray February 10, 2019 11:44 PM GMT
Not very enlightening unless at least one of the 4 ran at said Newcastle meeting.
Report isleham February 10, 2019 11:51 PM GMT
Crisford had no runners at McCain meetings in last 14 days
Report Facts February 11, 2019 5:33 AM GMT
Fake news then, by the BBC ?
Report buddeliea February 11, 2019 7:51 AM GMT
They have set a precedent that they check all yards that were in the same meeting as any horse found positive.
A dangerous precedent for our sport imo.
So if these latest ones are positive they have to now shutdown all yards with runners at that meeting until given the all clear.
OR they can backtrack and admit they were wrong in the first place with their reaction,which I doubt very much they will.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 8:29 AM GMT
2100 original samples have been checked and found 10 positive samples, 4 from Crisford and 6 from McCain. Believed the 4 from Crisfords were young horses just returning into training, have not raced. These 4 have been moved to an isolation yard.

My mates yard in Newmarket got the clear yesterday, and when he asked if he could declare horses for Wednesday's racing at Kempton, he was told he could. This was after the Crisford issue had been announced. I would still be confident racing will resume on Wednesday, otherwise the BHA would not advise trainers to declare for Wednesday's racing if they were sure they were going to postpone again.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 8:30 AM GMT
buddeliea 11 Feb 19 07:51 Joined: 19 Mar 04 | Topic/replies: 14,429 | Blogger: buddeliea's blog
They have set a precedent that they check all yards that were in the same meeting as any horse found positive.
A dangerous precedent for our sport imo.
So if these latest ones are positive they have to now shutdown all yards with runners at that meeting until given the all clear.
OR they can backtrack and admit they were wrong in the first place with their reaction,which I doubt very much they will.

None of the four horses at Simon's have raced recently, 2 are unraced horses.
Report Trident February 11, 2019 8:36 AM GMT
You will now need to shut down all Newmarket yards. The thing is horses come into contact with donkeys and mules. What NTD said about just normal Flu frustrates me.Scared
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 8:44 AM GMT
Why does all of Newmarket need to be shutdown Trident. 15 yards in Newmarket have been tested, only one has found 4 horses with a virus, OF WHICH none have run in a while, and 2 have never raced.
Report Trident February 11, 2019 8:52 AM GMT
Vaccinated thoroughbreds, thats the problem. Where did they get it from?
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 8:58 AM GMT
You due realise a Vaccine is there to help you fight a disease, not to stop you from getting it don't you ?

You may not fully contract an illness.

Just because I have a flu jab, doesn't mean I wont get a cold or runny nose, or bunged up nose now and again, it just means my body will be able to fight it better.

No difference in horses.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 9:01 AM GMT
See this advice even from the NHS regarding Flu Vaccines. It's exactly the same with horse vaccinations !!!! I've put the key lines in bold so you may understand.

How effective is the flu vaccine?
Flu vaccine is the best protection we have against an unpredictable virus that can cause unpleasant illness in children and severe illness and death among at-risk groups, including older people, pregnant women and those with an underlying medical health condition.

Studies have shown that the flu vaccine will help prevent you getting the flu. It won't stop all flu viruses and the level of protection may vary, so it's not a 100% guarantee that you'll be flu-free, but if you do get flu after vaccination it's likely to be milder and shorter-lived than it would otherwise have been.

There is also evidence to suggest that the flu vaccine can reduce your risk of having a stroke.

Over time, protection from the injected flu vaccine gradually decreases and flu strains often change. So new flu vaccines are produced each year, which is why people advised to have the flu vaccine need it every year too.

Read more about how the flu vaccine works.
Report buddeliea February 11, 2019 9:02 AM GMT
Ok Domino, that's good.
But they will have been housed in the same place as all his other horses I presume,so they will still all have to be tested in case it has spread within his yard,and any that have run from his yard may have passed it around.

This is what the BHA have started,and if they continue their stance,then I really don't know how this ends to be honest.
They shutdown racing everytime their is an horse go down with flu??
They need to admit they may have overreacted,and get some sort of sensibility into all this.
Report ribero1 February 11, 2019 9:05 AM GMT
Sky wheeling out James Tate,ffs he's as bad as the fecking Aussies.
Report Trident February 11, 2019 9:07 AM GMT
Those thinking only 4 cases not enough for a blanket ban. This is proof how the imediate action taken by BHA was correct. Had there been no ban & the infection spread questions would've been asked why was nothing done sooner. The ban should not be lifted until all tests completed.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 9:09 AM GMT
@Buddeliea

I'm not convinced to say their initial decisions were an overreaction as they DIDN'T KNOW AT THAT TIME WHAT THEY WERE DEALING WITH, AND HOW WIDE SPREAD IT MAY HAVE BEEN, OR HOW SERIOUS THE STRAIN WAS (i,e was it like the unknown Hendra virus which was life threatening in Aus).

The key issue is now after testing a large number of horses, and taking many areas of advice and putting procedures into place, to delay the recommencement of racing without any safe guarded plans and protocols would be a huge overreaction to the results they have been given.

To start racing again and for horses on decs to be swabbed and results be known before they travel, would be ACCEPTABLE in the short term, however after a few weeks of no sick horses attending any meetings this restriction should be lifted.

What should or could then be mandatory, is any horse showing signs of flu is swabbed and said horse is banned for 30 days or until producing a clean swab, and any horses planning to race from the yard can only race with clean swabs declared.

This would be a proactive approach and a realistic and acceptable approach in the industry, but this is the BHA we are talking about, which is run by ex coppers and the biggest idiots who were often failures in racing, so expecting anything sensible , practical and professional from the BHA would be about as likely as releasing a serial killer from prison and expecting them not to re-offend.
Report Trident February 11, 2019 9:10 AM GMT
domino14 not to rude, but are you a qualified vet?
Report posy February 11, 2019 9:21 AM GMT
The logical course of action would be to get back to racing on Wednesday however the stables where flu has been confirmed be prohibited from racing until the incubation period has ended.
Continuing the blanket shut down makes no sense whatsoever and will only result in unnecessary hardship for the industry as a whole. The BHA need to grow some balls and get on with it.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 9:22 AM GMT
Trident 11 Feb 19 09:07 Joined: 05 May 07 | Topic/replies: 1,887 | Blogger: Trident's blog
Those thinking only 4 cases not enough for a blanket ban. This is proof how the imediate action taken by BHA was correct. Had there been no ban & the infection spread questions would've been asked why was nothing done sooner. The ban should not be lifted until all tests completed.

WRONG !

The four horses from Simon Crisford's HAVE NOT RAN IN 2019, TWO OF THEM HAVE NEVER RACED !

The reason his four horses have a virus, is nothing to do with the fact 6 horses of Donald McCain's have a virus.

To be clear every horse that ran at the same meeting as RAISE A SPARK who was found to have the virus, have swabbed 100% CLEAR !!!

This is proof, that the virus has not been spread by a sick horse, to any other horse at that meeting. Like the AHT stated, the chances of a horse racing at a meeting where a horse has been with a virus is a million to one they would have been passed on the disease, this has been proved quite correct.

Now the bigger issue was probably most trainers wash down their horse boxes after racing with a pressure hose, very few however use disinfectant. Now Donald McCain had a horse run at a Wolves meeting test positive for flu, this is how it started. There is every chance the horse box or many racing kit of said horse (maybe even bridle) was not cleaned properly and therefore the disease was passed on to Raise A Spark.
Maybe a lad rode out the wolves horse, also rode out Raise A Spark, but because they were unknowing that one horse was ill, used the same bridle on the second horse, or the same stable rubber or grooming kit. Simple procedures, but more likely causes of spreading.

When I used to ride out we all had a sponge in out grooming kit, one side wiped the nose, the other wiped the bum. You simply dipped this in water each time you used it. Now say I rode out the Wolves runner that was ill, morning before race but didn't know it was ill, I wipe its nose with sponge. I then put sponge back in my bucket. 30 minutes later I tack up Raise A Spark, I dampen my sponge and wipe his nose. I personally am not thinking about spreading a virus, but this is 100% what I may have done!!

Now some yards I've rode out for, every horse has it's own grooming kit, bridle and stable rubber, but this isn't the case for all, and often it's every lad has their own grooming kit. A couple of stable rubbers and a sponge. One Bridle which they will use on all their lots unless they are riding a horse that needs a set bridle.

A trainers own bio-security is far more likely to spread any virus than racing at a meeting with a potentially unwell animal, where it will never come into contact with the said horse, or staff with said horse. The fat that the flu doesn't rear it's head for a few days until discharge is shown or a temperature, means a horse wouldn't say have an isolation kit for sickness at home until it's know as sick, and by then a lad may have spread a virus to other horses.

Logical explanations, which trainers should be reflecting on, if anything this should have highlighted to yards just how small things can cause a virus to spread between horses, but running at the same meeting as a horse that may have been unwell, is one of the least determined factors of why a virus has spread.

The simple factor no horses that have run at the two meetings where a sick horse ran, have tested positive tells the BHA all they need to know about the risk that racing carries.

What I expect now however is rather than use changing bedding in stables at racecourses, Racecourses will be asked to disinfect after each meeting, which could prove very staff labouring on a course that regularly has 2/3 days of consecutive racing.
Report domino14 February 11, 2019 9:27 AM GMT
Trident I am not a qualified vet.

But I am very good friends with a couple of trainers who have seeked counsel of their vets and the AHT.

I also keep a few horses at a local yard for my kids and have spoken to my own vets and asked their opinion.

I also worked in racing from 1991 to 2013 and know exactly how yards operate.

I still regularly visit yards and now and again ride out.

I know all about how disease spreads from an animal management course taken, and the trainers modules I completed in 2012 before I was head lad for a top Newmarket yard where I considering taking out a license to train for one owner attached to the yard who I was very close with and they were looking to decrease overheads.

I also know how common sense works, which the BHA don't!

So no I'm not a qualified vet, but my opinion is based on discussions with those who are, and those within the industry and someone who has worked with horses a long time and knows the basics of must diseases and vet related issues, which you are expected to know when a senior person in a livestock industry.
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 9:28 AM GMT
why was the ban logical,allegedly all horses are vaccinated and the 10 failing horses were vaccinated.,sykes said yesterday it could come and go in 24 hrs so all those tested yesterday could fail tomorrow,wed,thurs, or could have failed 48hrs before they were tested,
question remains chrisford before this outbreak wouldn't have tested his horses for flu or reported them,so why did mcain run a flu test out of the blue on horseshe thought worked and looked perfectly healthy, there in shoul lies some answers, and chrisfords like any other horse yard on any day of the year had flu,as blake,knight said yesterday if you tested every horse 24/7 100.1000.s would fail throughout the yerar
Report screaming from beneaththewaves February 11, 2019 9:28 AM GMT
The simple factor no horses that have run at the two meetings where a sick horse ran, have tested positive tells the BHA all they need to know about the risk that racing carries.


Very good point. And it provides an escape route for those administrators who shut down racing: they can say that they needed to ensure that this flu strain wasn't being spread by horses and staff mingling at racecourses, they've now done so, and racing can therefore resume. Nobody at the BHA will stand accused of acting wrongly.
Report screaming from beneaththewaves February 11, 2019 9:28 AM GMT
The simple factor no horses that have run at the two meetings where a sick horse ran, have tested positive tells the BHA all they need to know about the risk that racing carries.


Very good point. And it provides an escape route for those administrators who shut down racing: they can say that they needed to ensure that this flu strain wasn't being spread by horses and staff mingling at racecourses, they've now done so, and racing can therefore resume. Nobody at the BHA will stand accused of acting wrongly.
Report Trident February 11, 2019 9:29 AM GMT
Thanks for your reply domino14.
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 9:31 AM GMT
hasn't mcain had loads of problems with virus,sickness in the yard over the last 4/5 years
Report ribero1 February 11, 2019 9:33 AM GMT
Great input Domino and pretty impressive typing speed too!
Thanks.
Report HonkyJoe February 11, 2019 9:43 AM GMT
Yes, Domino's spoken a lot of sense throughout this whole affair.

Sounds as though hygiene procedures may not have been applied properly at the infected yards, but that there's little problem elsewhere so long as yards are vigilant. Hopefully the authorities will come out and say they wanted time to assess the scale of the problem, but that the evidence suggests the vaccinations are mostly doing their job, and that - apart from the infected yards - racing can recommence later this week.

If they use the Crisford test failures as a reason for extending the ban, they'll just be turning a minor issue into an industry calamity.
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 9:53 AM GMT
hygiene in yards can be useless or brilliant hasn't been a problem for 15 years still no one come up with a suggestion/answer as to why
mcain decided in his opinion to do tests him or no other trainer does [test for flu] on perfectly healthy looking horses,makes no sense unless he no, vsomething the rest of us don't regards vaccination,s in his yard
Report ribero1 February 11, 2019 9:58 AM GMT
Yes and hasn't Mc Cain said the horses in question appear perfectly fine now?
Wonder if a few trainers have crossed him off their Christmas card list!
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 9:59 AM GMT
if there hadn't been panic for what we now no is no reason by menzie,=chrisfords yard wouldn't even have been checked,using bha,their vets logic cant see how they can start again, all they've proved is that the vaccines arnt 100%, so any yard which is connected by horse or human to any of the 70% of horse population which arnt vaccinated are in the cycle,which is every racing yard in the country
Report Captain carnage February 11, 2019 10:10 AM GMT
Is it going to be on of off? Who gives a fnnck about the science.
Report STATSMAN February 11, 2019 10:10 AM GMT
FFS!! Grin


WRONG !

The four horses from Simon Crisford's HAVE NOT RAN IN 2019, TWO OF THEM HAVE NEVER RACED !
Report STATSMAN February 11, 2019 10:15 AM GMT
Could you please post the names of the said 4?
Report Trident February 11, 2019 10:22 AM GMT
Its VERY important for the Mares, it can obviously effect the ability to carry the foal.
Report HonkyJoe February 11, 2019 10:27 AM GMT
But no vaccines are 100% 1sttime. If you test several thousand samples, some will probably come back as positive. What's happened - a very tiny number of positives - is exactly what you should expect. If large numbers had come back as positive, there would clearly be an issue that would need to be dealt with before racing could recommence. That hasn't happened, though, and four positive tests at one yard shouldn't be enough to keep the rest of racing from going ahead.
Report isleham February 11, 2019 10:30 AM GMT
We must restart because the longer anything is shut the more difficult it is to get started again and with 1300 cases in the early 2000's there was no shutdown ffs
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 10:37 AM GMT
3 positive tests were enough last week
Report HonkyJoe February 11, 2019 10:55 AM GMT
Yes, but they didn't know the scale of the thing then. If it turns out that just 4 (or single digit) positives are turned up by the analysis of several thousand horses, it suggests there isn't a significant problem. The BHA could argue that they wanted to look more deeply to make sure that the vaccinations weren't failing. (Others will argue that they went into a needless panic, and that three positive tests shouldn't have merited an entire close-down.)

In any case, if it turns out that just a few positives have been uncovered, the BHA should now come out and say that they're satisfied that there isn't a major issue here, and that most of the yards will be allowed to start racing again. Otherwise we'll be in for weeks (possibly months) of trouble.

But you do raise a good point about McCain Jr. Why did he do the tests if he didn't think anything was amiss in the horses??
Report GEORGE.B February 11, 2019 10:56 AM GMT
Because there is seemingly no link between the Crisford and McCain horses, will the BHA's next move be:

We're going to have to test every horse in the UK ? Cry
Report HonkyJoe February 11, 2019 10:56 AM GMT
Somebody at the BHA got a worm can opener in their Christmas stocking.
Report salmon spray February 11, 2019 10:59 AM GMT
According to Wiki there was an outbreak in spring 2003 involving 1300 horses in 21 yards at Newmarket but no racing was cancelled. Anybody know any more details ?
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 11:01 AM GMT
regard mcain not just any test on in his opinion healthy horses but a test according to other trainers,pundits they,d never do, relying on the their vaccinated its not equine flu mantra
Report roggrain February 11, 2019 11:06 AM GMT
Four kids from the same school get the flu. Does the school get closed down? Do the authorities

close all schools,playgrounds,parks,swimming pools etc and swab all school kids for flu?

Is the flu more dangerous to the horse population than the human? No.

Will there ever be a day when no horses in the million or so in Britain have flu? No.

Seems to me that either the BHA has over-reacted or we as a society value the health of animals

more than that of people!
Report GEORGE.B February 11, 2019 11:08 AM GMT
1st tp, McCain explains here what prompted him to test the horses in the first place

https://www.skysports.com/racing/news/12426/11630689/donald-mccain-confirms
-three-positive-equine-flu-tests-are-from-his-yard
Report roggrain February 11, 2019 11:29 AM GMT
The BHA is a far greater threat to racing than equine flu!
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 11:38 AM GMT
mcain says he was concerned about the health of some of his horses
not what he told media and hen knight said he couldn't tell any difference between the healthiest horse and sickest horse in yard,so must have thought all his horses were unhealthy ,so why was he running them
says he was aware of a number of cases in france and Ireland,if he was aware why were bha/sykes allowing horses,jocks,connections back and forth from uk to france and Ireland
sounds alofs to me made up on the back of him been questioned about situation
Report yer ma February 11, 2019 11:40 AM GMT
Fact is - if you've tested before Crisford in newmarket, those tests are invalidated given the connectivity and incubation periods.  So get the swaps out again.  PS.  I think the whole approach has been bxllshxt generally.  They've treated this like avian flu or BSE or foot&mouth.  There is no comparison and the AHT are having a laugh giving the publicity about ONE non thoroughbred having to be put down....horses get put down all the time following all sorts of infections which are far more widespread and chances are it was probably sick/old/compromised anyway.
Report GEORGE.B February 11, 2019 11:41 AM GMT
Well it certainly caused an awkward moment yesterday when Luck asked Knight, why McCain had tested the horses in the first place
Report salmon spray February 11, 2019 11:42 AM GMT
Ridiculous lack of transparency from all concerned and of course we have a mainstream media which is clueless about racing and a specialist media that would not rock a coracle.
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 11:48 AM GMT
mcain saying in motorsheads piece in  post that horses were showing different signs to normal bugs,said to hen knight no signs between healthiest horse in yard than sickest, think mcain should shut the fook up as everything he says is contradicted by the next comment he makes
Report ribero1 February 11, 2019 11:48 AM GMT
Indeed Salmon as I said last night Mottershead piece in the post is pure sycophantic drivel.
Report 1st time poster February 11, 2019 11:54 AM GMT
mcain also said elsewhere today yesterday even the sick horses are working looking well, but he got them tested because he says he thought they were unhealthy, so why was he running them
said they were all tested pre race,bloods,temps,running ok, looking ok so why did he think they were all unhealthy
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