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revs
17 May 18 10:03
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Date Joined: 26 May 01
| Topic/replies: 293 | Blogger: revs's blog
Punters will pay the price for this £2 restriction.  Book percentages have already increased massively and place terms have been cut to 1/5 on many sports.  This will get worse!  The problem is that bookies don't employ talented traders to make a book, they simply use betfair prices minus their commission.  Its amazing how easy it is to spoof every single bookie in the uk by spoofing the betfair price.  The term 'bookmaker' should be removed from these firms because it no longer holds true!  The whole racing game depends on punters, if you continue to turn them away, it will collapse!
Pause Switch to Standard View £2 restriction is bad news for punters!
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Report DIE LINKE May 17, 2018 10:34 AM BST
Majority of punters will have been closed down/restricted anyway. An unrestricted account is as rare as an intact hymen in an inner city school.
Report Aladdin Sane May 17, 2018 10:41 AM BST
I disagree with the OP. I’m a punter and I think this is great news!!
Report RothmanMike May 17, 2018 10:46 AM BST
A real revelation by the OP - you learn something new every day Grin
Report JAMMER1 May 17, 2018 11:01 AM BST
The point is it is worse news for the books, if they cannot adjust their business model and start taking bets or they may as well turn the lights off. The same punters who could get on will still get on, and now the books have to make a decision on whether or not to take other punters on or keep being pathetic accountants whose bottom line will stay as it is now. They have restricted so many mugs it is unreal, and maybe if they let a few more punters actually place a bet their bottom line will rocket, even if they take on a few winning punters. That is even if those previous winning punters will even bother going back to them, and they have people who are capable of making a book or taking punters on.
Report ProSniper May 17, 2018 11:04 AM BST
Excellent news. What would be even better would be if all the filth were to close their laughable sportsbook ops and focus solely on their mickey mouse casino games, virtual shyte etc.. That way only the lost causes can keep pumping money to them.. while the rest can find a new home in the exchange. The scum is dead, long live the rabble.
Report lewisham ranger May 17, 2018 11:56 AM BST
jammer is absolutely correct. this decision is an absolute disaster for any serious punter wanting to get on. don't be fooled into thinking they will change their business model. if they were lazy and uncreative before, there's no reason to think that will change.
Report the.mad.dog.man May 17, 2018 11:59 AM BST
hope they close all the betting shopsLaughLaughLaugh
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 12:02 PM BST
It would take some front for them to move to a model where they're turning over more on virtual racing than actual horse racing, but I wouldn't put it past them.
Report Ramruma May 17, 2018 12:05 PM BST
The sharks' fantasy that this will mean Ladbrokes will soon be willing to lay a grand at the price on a Cartmel seller to an army of putters-on will now be tested. Like most on this thread, I'm not holding my breath.

More likely they'll close a load of shops, keep online the same and throw millions at the American market now that the US Supreme Court has just ruled sports betting is legal.
Report know all May 17, 2018 12:07 PM BST
great news they might offer a bit more value for normal punters looks like they will have to as they will be all fighting for market share now could be the best news ever for shop punters - lately been changing with Ladbrokes offering best odds on most meetings everyday but you need grid card for most but just fill in false details Grin they send a text to activate it but never been contacted again since then
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 12:09 PM BST
If their idea to fight for market share is to push more BOG promotions etc then they will fail at trying to be proper bookies again.
Report ProSniper May 17, 2018 12:13 PM BST
"Bookmakers launched last-ditch attempts to sway the government, including an advertising campaign emphasising the potential loss of jobs and calling on people to write to their local MP asking for them to urge the government to reject a £2 stake."

Awww, how lovely it is to see that bib. They me be rancid blood suckers, but at least this proves their heart is in the right place. Who'd have thunk that their primary concern was about others and their jobs.. and not the skips full of cash it'll be halting from reaching their own backyards.
Report know all May 17, 2018 12:14 PM BST
just to confirm they send text - you then show code in the shop and card is active and you get best odds and there early prices are better than they were by a long way so fair play to them
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 12:15 PM BST
ok, thanks
Report sparrow May 17, 2018 12:18 PM BST
Close them all down and good riddance.
Report know all May 17, 2018 12:24 PM BST
lol I like cash and still like the banter in the bookies sometimes I keep my tickets for months sometimes so cant spend it waiting for the big meetings - each to there own . beware those machines they use for settlement a very rare 10 pound combination forecast for me over 250 due staff said no return so phoned up and within 2 min sorted we got it wrong go back in will pay you out
Report sparrow May 17, 2018 12:28 PM BST
Paddy Power chief executive Peter Jackson said the bookmaker had "highlighted our concern that the wider gambling industry has suffered reputational damage as a result of the widespread unease over stake limits on gaming machines".

"We welcome, therefore, the significant intervention by the government today, and believe this is a positive development for the long-term sustainability of the industry."
Report TheFear May 17, 2018 12:34 PM BST
They might come after online gambling next and we'll see if Peter Jackson leads the way then!
Report JAMMER1 May 17, 2018 12:38 PM BST
Ramruma
Date Joined:    11 Dec 02
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17 May 18 12:05
The sharks' fantasy that this will mean Ladbrokes will soon be willing to lay a grand at the price on a Cartmel seller to an army of putters-on will now be tested. Like most on this thread, I'm not holding my breath.


The thing is most punters decent or not, do not want a grand on a seller. Most will want £20-£200 on your average handicap, but when most of those punters are getting knocked backed to tenners and SP at best they see no point in bothering with it anymore and leave the sport for good. Why don't the books actually try and take some decent bets for a few months without everything going to accountants for authorisation, forget the early prices on the AW if they think it's terrible, forget the sellers, maidens etc and only price up what they think they know about. The liquidity is pee poor on here unless you bet at the off, so rather than follow the £3 wanted on here at 6.4 and cut the advertised 11/2 to 5/1 or 9/2 actually lay some 11/2 - just a thought... Get rid of BOG etc if you don't want it, or offer people accounts without BOG. Plenty of ways to try and entice punters back, but I don't think they will even bother.
Report Aladdin Sane May 17, 2018 12:46 PM BST
I know I’m getting on a bit now, but I’m sure I remember a time when bookies did quite well before FOBTs became along...
Report SontaranStratagem May 17, 2018 12:48 PM BST
I dont see how restricting FOBT machines is bad in terms of punters money

But it is the state playing god again, telling us what we can and cant do with our money and its only going to get worse as they strip away at our rights and freedoms

Theresa May is not even semi competent at her own job never mind preaching to us about gambling/money etc
Report SontaranStratagem May 17, 2018 12:53 PM BST

May 17, 2018 -- 5:01AM, JAMMER1 wrote:


The point is it is worse news for the books, if they cannot adjust their business model and start taking bets or they may as well turn the lights off. The same punters who could get on will still get on, and now the books have to make a decision on whether or not to take other punters on or keep being pathetic accountants whose bottom line will stay as it is now. They have restricted so many mugs it is unreal, and maybe if they let a few more punters actually place a bet their bottom line will rocket, even if they take on a few winning punters. That is even if those previous winning punters will even bother going back to them, and they have people who are capable of making a book or taking punters on.


I think bookies will just become fully fledged online casinos, this is where its all going imo, I know people claim online wont be as popular but it is getting more popular that's the point, casinos are making a bee line for the online market, youtube streamers with 1000s of viewers proves this. bookies wont bother wasting their breath on £10 horse bets when they can get that through 1 spin on an online slot, its fast and guaranteed money online slotting (for the casino), we live in a society that has lost all sense of reality, everyone wants it now and that's the punters to the bookies/casinos.

Report SontaranStratagem May 17, 2018 12:56 PM BST
Cold hard cash will be replaced by a number on a screen, people will lose all sense of money when online, its all about increasing that number on that damn computer screen. Ive heard people say they don't look at it as money either, it really is just a number on a screen, welcome to the matrix.
Report howard May 17, 2018 12:56 PM BST
yeah bookies did quite well before FOBT's ....and it was well before  betfair  lottery and all the other stuff you can play on smartphones. It's a different world. Betting shops are in big trouble.
Report onlooker May 17, 2018 12:56 PM BST
Spot On - JAMMER1

That is how it used to be - and THEY TOOK A BET.

EARLY PRICES - ONLY on TERRESTRIAL TV races

Early Prices on other 'Support' Handicaps only from 11 am the morning of the race.

NO Early Prices on Lower-grade Handicaps - Maidens, 2-y-old races etc.

They STILL made an OVERALL  PROFIT - when honouring the above terms to decent bets.
Report know all May 17, 2018 12:57 PM BST
As I use shops you can get 2-300 on without any problems and there is a few shops just be sure to place a few daft small bets as your not collecting all the time keep some tickets back and be nice to staff
Report SontaranStratagem May 17, 2018 12:59 PM BST
Us horse racing punters are a minority though, know all. unless its the big races the average joe really doesn't care, its just to slow and boring for them to build a bank, all about chasing features and big money sadly.
Report ProSniper May 17, 2018 1:02 PM BST
Sonty, state intervention is OK(imo) when it's rational to all bar the greedy bastards who stand to lose plenty from it. The morons whho stick fortunes into those money guzzling machines should just be grateful they've not banned the awful contraptions. The addicts can still play and lose as long as they want,, just not at a super fast pace.
Report sweetnsour May 17, 2018 1:02 PM BST
so when does this come into place ?
Report lewisham ranger May 17, 2018 1:03 PM BST
Cold hard cash will be replaced by a number on a screen, people will lose all sense of money when online,

think it's harder to lose cash online in some ways though. if you use a credit card for example there's always a fee plus interest charges (although same if you use it in a betting shop i guess), and you can't lose physical cash online which is what a lot of these doleys have
Report salmon spray May 17, 2018 1:09 PM BST
I do think credit cards should not be accepted by gambling firms.
Report JAMMER1 May 17, 2018 1:16 PM BST
salmon spray -  I cannot believe this has not been outlawed, surely has to come though.
Report lewisham ranger May 17, 2018 1:20 PM BST
if they did the bookies would surely go broke, because a huge percentage of gambling debt must be built on credit.
Report doantwin2easy May 17, 2018 1:24 PM BST
They bleat on about people losing jobs. Like they care. Jobs that were created by sucking the lifeblood out of poor communities.

That turned the high street into a blackpool promenade.

Where staff were asked to single man whilst cowering from individuals smashing up everything around them.

They talk about closing shops too. Shops that were only opened to loophole round the numerical restrictions on FOBTS.

Stop crying and take proper bets.
Report Cosmic Horizon May 17, 2018 1:25 PM BST
How about the increase in Remote Gaming Duty?  Will this have an impact on Betfair?
Report differentdrum May 17, 2018 1:30 PM BST
Surprisingly, there is a world outside the Betfair Exchange. Some clowns suggesting getting rid of Best Odds? Clearly for those who can see a bigger picture that is the best concession punters get. If betting solely on the exchanges is your bag fine but don't try and tamper with what works for the smaller punter elsewhere.
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 1:34 PM BST
How do you go about making a book with BOG?
Report sageform May 17, 2018 1:35 PM BST
We are all free to choose how we bet and for me it has been 98% exchanges since 2000. I only use a shop or telephone account if I have no internet access which is about twice a year. I sometimes bet with an online bookmaker to get special offers. I am a very small stake punter these days but I don't see why that affects my choice of betting platform unless I wanted to go below £2.
Report JAMMER1 May 17, 2018 1:57 PM BST
differentdrum - if they took away BOG they would possibly be able to become actual bookmakers and accept wagers from many punters, rather than the accountants they are now. Many people who have been restricted to peanuts (plenty of longterm losers in that as well), would happily be able to have £50-£100 at an advertised price with no BOG, just so they could actually have a bet taken. Defining some of us who would be happy without BOG as clowns is a bit far fetched, it is mainly the clowns who actually still get BOG after a couple of weeks.

Take away BOG and it will increase turnover and increase profit which in turn creates more money for Racing - providing they are willing to accept bets in the first place.
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 2:00 PM BST
Correct Jammer, the more concessions they offer, the harder it is for them to get away from their play the man not the race ethos.
Report baNjackst May 17, 2018 2:14 PM BST
Bookmakers never had any problem with anyone losing, this restriction was called for by bookmakers simply because the machine couldn't recognize who the punter using it was. If you place a bet over the counter or on an online account they know who is placing the bet. until punters come together and are legally represented bookmakers will continue to walk all over them. Racing cannot survive without the punter and the horse owner. Both should take a stand. As a person who has punted all my life I would prefer a total gambling ban to occur than see the bookies have this one sided advantage.
Report sparrow May 17, 2018 2:16 PM BST
The bookmakers often distort the SP at courses when their BOG liabilities are high in any case.
Report Brian May 17, 2018 2:29 PM BST
Whatever the effect, it has to be morally right to massively reduce the FOBT max stakes so I'm all for it, come what may.
Report pablo-fanque May 17, 2018 3:06 PM BST
betfair should be in the position by now to accommodate most punters stakes sizes at fair odds . so there is no real need to bet with bookmakers except for trying to get what you perceive to be a better price in the early mornning markets
an ordinary tuesday meeting at fontwell liquidity wise , should look like what cheltenham or royal ascots markets look like by now ( thousands on each side of the top few in the market , few hundred at larger odds ).
but they are not due to a few factors :

sportsbook takes priority
premium charge puts off punters and liquidity market makers from making the effort or placing pre-race bets
lack of advertisement for the exchange
probably a few other things i haven't thought about
Report Diff-rent May 17, 2018 3:28 PM BST
Brian is totally correct.

Anyone who rejects it for moral reasons should be a shamed of themselves.
Report Crawford May 17, 2018 6:44 PM BST
It's only really good news if the bookmakers return to being bookies instead of low-rent casinos.  But i shan't be too hopeful.
Report Crawford May 17, 2018 6:45 PM BST
I phrased that wrongly.  It is good news, but would be better if bookies became bookies again.
Report impossible123 May 17, 2018 7:11 PM BST
I think this Exchange could take up some of the slack post this momentous decision to cater for walk-on customers from the high street using their platform to boost revenue/profit with instant crediting of winnings utilising the already available environment. It will also increase the exposure of the Exchange and competitiveness against their rivals eg 'ladcrookes/ok koral, billy, freddy, etc.
Report kavvie May 17, 2018 7:33 PM BST
if your selling something and its too dear people wont buy it.same with bookies.if they not providing value and operating 150% books people will stop betting..if they want to make money the will have to provide value
Report carrot1960 May 17, 2018 7:49 PM BST
"Punters" ?
Report impossible123 May 17, 2018 8:04 PM BST
Exchange on the high street could encourage wannabe bookies to trading/punting on horse racing and other sports similar to retail investors/currency traders playing the Stock Market. If so, and with the appropriate facilities and conditions this will boost liquidity on the Exchange benefiting everyone involved ie good liquidity = strong market = good/competitive odds = satisfaction for backers and layers/users.
Report sparrow May 17, 2018 10:47 PM BST
With most people now having internet access via their phones the exchanges are now very much more accessible than when it was first introduced. The problem is that most people don't like change and Betfair make it very difficult for new customers to even discover the exchange. We can only hope that somehow punters will find their way on here and improve liquidity for all of us.
Report mouse muldoon May 17, 2018 10:50 PM BST
Had BF not mutated into a grotesque simulacrum of the old enemy, then now would be a great time for a reprise of the old coffin stunt.
Report Brian May 18, 2018 9:05 AM BST
The two bookmaker owned exchanges don't want to see the exchanges grow (at the expense of the bigger profit margin alternatives). They don't want them to disappear either or a newbie will come along in the style of old Betfair to take their place so no/little growth strategy suits them just fine.
Report impossible123 May 18, 2018 9:18 AM BST
I think entering the Exchange market is not cost prohibitive and would not deter any probable entrant because existing users are just one step away from exiting if the t&c are considered too onerous and unreasonable; there is no total loyalty, but loads of self interest by users. I think this is the way forward; the brick and mortar bookies could venture into the newly open betting markets in America and elsewhere.

Fobt is on the deathbed and probably cease to exist given time in high street bookies as it is so socially toxic and unrelated to racing; it could find a home in casinos away from the high street.
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