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halcyon days
30 Oct 17 22:14
Joined:
Date Joined: 29 Jun 05
| Topic/replies: 30,040 | Blogger: halcyon days's blog
£20        levels

£30        bottle

£50        ching

£10        cockle

£2          nifty
Pause Switch to Standard View Fobts max stake per spin... my book...
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Report halcyon days October 30, 2017 9:15 PM GMT
No change 999/1
Report RADGEPOT October 31, 2017 7:02 PM GMT
I'll have a ten ponies the cockle chance please, Hal.
Report OVERSEAS October 31, 2017 7:51 PM GMT
score on the no change at 999/1 (nothing ceases to amaze me in this game!) as a wild card and a bullseye on the cockle please...
Report ronnie rails October 31, 2017 7:52 PM GMT
halcyon

I would have a few quid on the stake being 50
Report s.kenbo October 31, 2017 8:09 PM GMT
If it was £50 max, then that wouldn't make much difference to the bookies profits, would it?

You're theoretically only limiting roulette then, and surely any chasers would be putting £50 on zero, and just taking longer to lose their money.
Report ronnie rails October 31, 2017 8:14 PM GMT
to my thinking you can spin now for a ton but make it max spin 50 and the gov will say they have reduced the spin by 50%, just ask one of their doctorsGrin
Report s.kenbo October 31, 2017 8:24 PM GMT
Reducing it to £50, would  affect roughly one in a hundred players I would've thought.

But you're probably right. It would sound like they've done something positive (to the majority of the population) when they've actually done fook all to ease the situation.
Report maineroad October 31, 2017 8:25 PM GMT
£50 100%
Report maineroad October 31, 2017 8:31 PM GMT
£50 keeps the bookies happy- keeps the treasury happy -keeps the addicts unhappy -still attracts addicts- and makes it look like they are listening to the anti fobt brigade.

The fella from the abb was on the radio saying loads of shops have closed bla bla bla and the staff are now really well trained in spotting addicts etc etc the ones doing there conkers on the fobs arent the ones having a bet on the dogs a yankee on the nags or a tenner on the footy its everyone else who are falling for them and being positivley encouraged to play them.
Report ronnie rails October 31, 2017 8:51 PM GMT
maineroad

Hope you are well, I am afraid as you point out the game is desperate but as long as it is making the gov money nothing will change.

As far as the staff being well trained in spotting an addict, most of them are more likely to be able to tell you what's going on in the soaps or are playing games on their mobiles
Report halcyon days October 31, 2017 8:56 PM GMT
Maximum bet to fall to between £2 and £50 as minister addresses gaming and advertising concerns but Labour calls review ‘deeply disappointing’

Tuesday 31 October 2017 17.33 GMT First published on Tuesday 31 October 2017 07.16 GMT
The maximum stake on fixed-odds betting terminals will be cut after the government admitted that existing limits on the machines, which allow gamblers to bet up to £300 a minute, are inappropriate.

Unveiling the keenly-awaited review, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) minister Tracey Crouch said the government would cut the maximum bet on the machines from £100 to between £2 and £50.

Bookmakers, who have warned that shops will close if maximum stakes are cut, are expected to lobby for the £50 option during a 12-week consultation period ending in January.


But the review warned that a £50 limit would involve “minimal change to the status quo”, suggesting lower options of £20 or £30, or the most extreme cut to £2, are more likely.

The DCMS will also consider slowing the pace at which bets can be made, from the current interval of 20 seconds.

Crouch said cutting stakes aimed to “reduce the potential for large session losses and therefore to the potentially harmful impact on the player and their wider communities”.

Figures from the UK’s leading GambleAware show that 233,000 FOBT users lost more than £1,000 in one sitting last year, while 650 people lost more than £5,000 and one person lost £13,778.

Crouch said the government hoped that introducing new curbs would protect vulnerable people “exposed by the current weaknesses in protections”.

The review also raised concerns that bookmakers, who are allowed four FOBTs per shop, tend to cluster them in poorer areas with higher unemployment.

An FOBT in a Paddy Power shop
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An FOBT in a Paddy Power shop in east London. Photograph: David Levene for the Guardian
Labour’s deputy leader, Tom Watson, said the review was “deeply disappointing”, while shares in Ladbrokes and William Hill rose, indicating that investors thought the review relatively lenient.

“There’s an old maxim that the bookies always win and they’ve won again today,” said Watson, adding that gambling lobbyists were “grinning from ear to ear”.

“Ministers have squandered a real opportunity to curb highly addictive FOBTs, which can cause real harm to individuals, their families and local communities,” he said. “After months of delays they’ve simply decided to have another consultation.”

He said Labour would tackle a “hidden epidemic” of gambling addiction with policies including a cut in FOBT stakes to £2 and a ban on betting firms advertising on football shirts.

Crouch said Watson had undergone a “conversion”, having been a member of the Labour government that was partly responsible for the spread of FOBTs due to its deregulation of the gambling industry in 2005.

FOBTs have sometimes been called the “crack cocaine of gambling” due to the speed and apparently addictive nature of the games they offer, such as roulette. A report by the industry regulator, the Gambling Commission, earlier this year found 43% of people who use the machines are either problem or at-risk gamblers.


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But bookmakers, whose £1.8bn income from the machines accounted for more than half of their revenues last year, have played down links to problem gambling.

Robin Wales, the mayor of Newham in east London, criticised the government’s decision to consult further on reducing maximum FOBT stakes. In a letter to the Guardian he said: “It is over a year since the review was launched and the response is to kick the issue into the long grass with yet a further consultation. Newham residents cannot afford any further delay... Last year, in Newham alone, it is estimated that nearly £20m was lost on FOBTs. That is the price some of our poorest and vulnerable residents are paying because of this government’s continued inaction.”

According to the Money Advice Service, the residents of Newham are the most likely in the UK to be burdened by debt. Wales said his borough has 81 betting shops – one of the highest concentrations in the country – with 12 shops on just one street. He urged the government to slash the stake to £2, despite the cost to the exchequer: “If the maximum stake level is set at anything over £2, it will show that the Treasury is putting exchequer profits before people.”

Newham’s residents suffer from high-stakes gambling machines
Letters: The government must act decisively and reduce the maximum stake on fixed-odds betting terminals to £2, writes Robin Wales, mayor of Newham
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The Association of British Bookmakers (ABB) has said a cut in the maximum stake to £2 would cost 20,000 jobs and slash Treasury income from machine gaming duty, worth more than £700m last year.

Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, ABB chief executive Malcolm George said bookmakers that close would not be replaced by “bijou bakeries” but by “grotty amusement arcades”.

The review also addressed the fast-growing online gaming sector, which took in £4.5bn from 7 million customers last year, according to Gambling Commission statistics.


Gambling charity warns betting firms are failing to fund addiction treatment
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The DCMS called on online firms to speed up the pace of initiatives to address problem gambling, including “self-exclusion” schemes that allow addicts to bar themselves voluntarily but have failed in high-profile cases.

But the review stopped short of recommending any curbs on the volume of gambling adverts on television, despite pressure from campaign groups to limit their spread.

Instead, the review confirmed plans revealed in the Guardian that would force the industry and broadcasters to fund a £7m responsible gambling advertising campaign costing, a deal Watson has branded a “stitch-up”.

The DCMS also promised new guidelines to prevent gambling adverts from encouraging impulsive behaviour, as well as a commitment from the industry to ensure under-18s cannot access gambling content via social media.

It also vowed to back efforts by the UK’s leading gambling charity, GambleAware, to roll out more specialist clinics to help addicts, something the organisation has said could require a statutory levy on firms to address a funding shortfall.

Crouch said the government hoped gambling companies would increase their voluntary contributions to GambleAware, warning that the government would consider a mandatory levy if they don’t.

The review was due to be released in June but was delayed when the prime minister called the snap general election.
Report halcyon days October 31, 2017 8:57 PM GMT
Still think it will be the levels or bottle in January !    WinkWinkWink
Report halcyon days October 31, 2017 9:00 PM GMT
Work in the industry... most high roller's gamble £50 per spin... can't be arsed to print ticket off for £100 spin's every five minutes' !
Report the bloob October 31, 2017 9:07 PM GMT
I hope they call the bookies bluff, no way would there be the redundancies they talk about

shop closures would be a good thing anyway, far too many of them

the town I live in used to have 2 bookies in the centre and a couple more on the outskirts, these days with many other ways to put a bet on you would have thought there would be fewer, but there is now more than double that amount
Report ronnie rails October 31, 2017 9:32 PM GMT
will get our targets in the  morning for Saturdays beat the bookie comp on the fobts,
will get an email on sunday why are you way behind target,
regards
Ronnie.
Report factmachine October 31, 2017 9:37 PM GMT
YES I WAS DEVASTATED WHEN ALL THOSE PEOPLE LOST THEIR JOBS IN THE BRITISH LANDMINE INDUSTRY,THAT DIANA HAS A LOT TO ANSWER FOR Crazy
Report halcyon days October 31, 2017 9:39 PM GMT
In 2015 £11 billions was turned over on Fobts...  bookmakers kept £2.2 billion of which they paid the Exchequer £549m @ 20% in machine tax.. last year that was £700m @ 25% machine tax !


The governments procrastination is quite outrageous !
Report halcyon days October 31, 2017 9:41 PM GMT
Consultation period... FFS !
Report Nirnaeth Arnoediad October 31, 2017 11:17 PM GMT
£20 a spin or less. Only 1 spin a minute. Strict enforcement of the playing of only 1 machine at a time.

That would be a right result.

As for job losses, well half the staff we employ are a waste of space. Sort the wheat from the chaff.
Report Capt__F November 1, 2017 12:13 AM GMT
who's the "we" ?
Report screaming from beneaththewaves November 1, 2017 12:25 AM GMT
I'd let the shops have whatever stake they like on their machines, bingo games and cartoon racing, as long the shop matches it with weekly stakes taken on horses, dogs, sports and real-life event bets.

So, if by the end of the week 10 grand has been pumped into the FOBTs etc., but only 3 grand taken over the counter in traditional bets, then the FOBTs get switched off until the shop's taken another 7 grand over the counter in proper bets.

That would concentrate a few minds.
Report GHOSTOFALEXBIRD November 1, 2017 6:46 AM GMT
Great post screaming it won't happen but what a great thought

A few years ago in our town we had a burger van on the outskirts of town it was doing a roaring trade but not in burgers in drugs

Great smokescreen kids pull up get there hit drive off it was not a burger van at all did sell a few I suppose to cover the story

Often things that is how the high street flag ins work pretending to be a bookies when in fact they are a mini casino

My money's on £50 a spin like others have said it looks like the govt have cut it by 50% they still get there rake and it looks to the public they have done the right thing

Ps the burger man van man is doing a long stretch at the mo
Report Big Boss November 1, 2017 8:03 AM GMT
it is £25 per spin max I reckon
Report portmanpark November 1, 2017 9:43 AM GMT
50(nap)
Report pixie November 1, 2017 11:13 AM GMT
It won't be £50. That wouldn't be enough to appease the antis and the issue will remain as politically toxic as it is now. Halcyon Days odds are about right imo. I would make £20 a spin favourite too, as KPMG in the Government review predict revenue to drop by just 27.6% (which in my view I think is too low). Revenue drop is of course far far lower at £30 a spin and if they really don't want to see tax revenue drop too much and the bookies lobby well, they may opt for that.
Report halcyon days November 1, 2017 11:14 AM GMT
Three months Betfarian's...   so far I'm in front...   I reckon ! ?...   Laugh
Report crystalhunt November 1, 2017 11:30 AM GMT
No more than £10 for me. Shop closures wouldn't be a bad thing IMO - they are a blot on the landscape - especially in city centre precincts.

Dare we hope that Bookmakers will actually become bookmakers again
Report fife November 1, 2017 11:55 AM GMT
I reckon it will be £20 though I would be looking for 5/4 as evens seems a bit stingy Grin though on a serious note as someone mentioned on another thread although there may be job losses if new restrictions come in how many people who became addicted to these machines have lost their jobs over the last few years.
Report JML November 1, 2017 12:05 PM GMT
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/19/a-stupid-gamble-on-evi...
Report impossible123 November 1, 2017 2:32 PM GMT
Any figure higher than £10 max a spin is not dealing with the issue head-on given the well known negative effects it has on the individual, and community; these well known negative effects can only get worse, and not better; these machines should/ought never to have been allowed on the high street in the 1st place.

Playing the fobt in the shop is entirely different to that at home; the accompanying music/noises from the machines are less enticing/seductive thus les addictive; the constant withdrawal from one's bank account into a bookie's account will trigger a probable (momentary) stop/ban from one's bank/credit card provider; probable interruption from fellow individuals/events eg door bell, phone calls, etc.
Report houseofpain November 1, 2017 4:58 PM GMT
When is the final decision made anyone know, tia.
Report JML November 1, 2017 5:10 PM GMT
The government should ban all casino games and slots and open their own site.
Why take a small cut of the profits when you can have it all?

They also need to take a look at the number bets being offered (zimbabwe lottery etc)

They are costing the national lottery a lot of buisness and have an unfair tax advantage.

If you include good causes the National lottery pay 40% on turnover whilst the bookies only pay about 4%.
Report impossible123 November 1, 2017 6:04 PM GMT
The consultation period is for 12 weeks.
Report GHOSTOFALEXBIRD November 1, 2017 6:25 PM GMT
Want to change my bet from £50 to £20 a pop please Hal after speaking to someone today he told me it's already £50 a spin unless you "ask" to spin a ton, so to cut it to £50 won't be changing anything will it

So a score a time is my wager

Did laugh today dunno if anyone else see it but Fred done was doing his pushes today and was being a nice fred and saying things like"remember keep it fun don't bet more than you can afforded blah dee blah dee blah"

And he couldn't even get the words out of his mouth he was stuttering and mumblingLaughLaugh
Report nortons November 1, 2017 6:59 PM GMT
On Five Live And Victoria Derbyshire, a bloke called Jason Haddigan been on stating he had done 300,000 on the Fobts since year 2000. How did you get that money she asked..."I conned them he replied". Apparently he has just released a book, " How i Conned the Bookies and Why".....Is now a reformed character,apparently..
Report s.kenbo November 1, 2017 7:56 PM GMT
I might get that book. It sounds like a bit of light relief.
Report GHOSTOFALEXBIRD November 1, 2017 8:33 PM GMT
F I n k I may right a book kenners

Shocked
Report s.kenbo November 1, 2017 8:50 PM GMT
You could do with a Ghost writer!
Report Capt__F November 2, 2017 12:15 AM GMT
Alex Bird never touched eye eye handicaps

but had some right touches heeey  on The Grand National
Report impossible123 November 2, 2017 10:25 AM GMT
The Government had stated the range would be between £50 and £2. If £50 was the final outcome then what would be the point of having this additional 12 week "consultation" period?

£2 max per spin would be very unlikely now,...to me a more realistic figure would be between £20 and £10, I believe, to satisfy and pacify, and be more palatable to both sides; this could be the starting point with a further review in the future, if necessary, should more adverse implications arise.
Report pixie November 2, 2017 10:57 AM GMT
'Palatable to both sides'? What planet are you on? Do you think the bookies will find under £20 'palatable'?
Report ronnie rails November 2, 2017 12:31 PM GMT
lads shares up 6 percent today
regards
Ronnie.
Report go racing November 2, 2017 12:48 PM GMT
Main problem i think is that they want to rip off the mugs that play them for thousands and then sh it themselves when they smell an inspired sports/horse/dog bet. This is really what should be exposed, can't have it both ways but the brown envelopes say different. And why do you keep having sly digs about your scumbag employer Ronnie Rails and then bend over backwards to sell there **** gaming machine product for them, all for 21k a year?
Report impossible123 November 2, 2017 4:36 PM GMT
Anything between £20 and £10 is palatable eg if £20, it is still far higher than £2, the max being sought by the fobt opponents, similarly £15; if £10 the fobt opponents would be happier as this figure is much closer to the £2 max they had been demanding. But the bookies would be up in arms as this would be significantly less than the present £100 or £50, the ceiling of the consultation.

Personally, I think the eventual max figure would be £20 per spin as anything above would be deemed too high given the support and outcry voiced by prominent individuals of society.
Report pixie November 2, 2017 5:56 PM GMT
Not in a million years would the bookies accept a maximum spin lower than £20 as 'palatable'. If you read the impact assessment on the Government Gambling Consultation Review, KPMG assess the revenue drop to be by 27.6% on a £20 spin, I would guess max £10 a spin would see a revenue drop to around 50% and KPMG forecast a revenue drop of 64.9% with a reduction to £2 a spin. If any of the aforementioned restrictions were put in place there would be mass shop closures and the big bookies share prices would plummet! The bookies will be truly horrified if the maximum spin was reduced to below £20!
Report impossible123 November 2, 2017 7:42 PM GMT
The bookies have been "stealing" from the fobt addicts and The Exchequer - the fobt should incur a tax of 97% - given the ease and magnitude of their annual cumulative profits eg £1.8bn. The bookies have strategically manipulated the proliferation of fobt with impunity courtesy of past and present governments. Hence, it is about time these profits are reduced significantly and/or extinguished bookies - the bookies must be made to "work" for them and not "handed" to them on a silver plate annually.

The accountants KPMG is marked by duplicity thus any financial projection from them must be taken with a big pinch of salt, in my opinion.
Report pixie November 2, 2017 7:49 PM GMT
Whatever your opinion of the moral wrongs of bookmakers, I was merely pointing out that you are very wrong if you think under £20 a spin would be 'palatable' to the bookmakers!
Report halcyon days November 2, 2017 8:16 PM GMT
Which ever way it goes in January..



THE BUSINESS MODEL OF HIGH STREET BOOKMAKERS WILL CHANGE, IT HAS TO !
Report pumphol. November 2, 2017 8:30 PM GMT
Sadly nothing will change for the sports punter regardless of the max spin amount, anyone with any sort of clue on any sport is & will continue to be  regarded as a parasite, nothing will change that & as the average punter has less of a say than the average man in the street in North Korea all that will change if it ends up say £20 a spin will  be a few shop closures for example this time next year there may be say 14 bookies in High street North instead of 18 Crazy
Report screaming from beneaththewaves November 3, 2017 3:34 PM GMT
Actually I think there would be more betting shops if the max. stake were reduced.

The addicts' money would last longer, so they'd be sitting at the machine longer. Hence there'd be a demand for more machines from the other addicts who could no longer find a vacant machine.
Report maineroad November 4, 2017 10:13 AM GMT
We had a proper old type shop busy on the phones - pubs - clubs loads of decent punters and the fobs had been out for about 6 months. I said to me old fella we need one of those he said not a chance no one will play it and it will take up too much "paper space" and we hardly had any as it was. I finally talked him into it and the machine was put in by a firm who said it def wont lose. We turned it on on the Saturday and couldnt see it from where we were behind the counter. People  started bringing up winning dockets £30 £20 £4  then £340 me old man was going spare we could here it being played and people were crowding round it as it was new. Any way someone comes up and said the machine wont accept notes and there was an error message on the screen so we phoned the fella who put it in he said the error message was because the thing that stored the notes was full up !! We opened the cabinet and the money thing was was on a spring as I grabbed it the spring came away and fk in laods of fivers tenners and twentys flew across the shop. We scooped em up over a grand had been put in and we had paid out about half that. Whatever happened results wise we always knew the "box" ( as me old man would call it ) was sitting there in the corner minding its own business making bombs.
Report halcyon days November 4, 2017 11:34 AM GMT
The cynic in me thinks the dawdling by the government is to drop the ''max'' to £50 !



I hope I'm proved wrong.
Report parispike November 4, 2017 11:40 AM GMT
The "cynic" in you halcyon days is you being realistic. Alas.
Report s.kenbo November 4, 2017 11:45 AM GMT
Maineroad. Laugh
Report screaming from beneaththewaves November 4, 2017 2:59 PM GMT
Brilliant story, maineroad!
Report ronnie rails November 4, 2017 7:00 PM GMT
maineroad
how much did you make out of Chinese  with the scotish notes,
hope you are well
regards
Ronnie.
Report Storm Alert November 4, 2017 7:30 PM GMT
£30 max casino games (roulette, blackjack etc)
£2  max spin slots (no high stakes options).

Max number of FOBT machines increased from four to six per shop.
Report impossible123 November 4, 2017 7:34 PM GMT
The number of fobt machines must remain 4 or less, and not be related to maximum stake consultation.
Report maineroad November 5, 2017 12:01 PM GMT
Things are good Ronnie - hows it with you these days ?

Those chinks used to bring in thousands in scottish notes that stank of weed  I got to know the main man pretty well it seems they were Chinks running cannabis farms from terrace houses in Scotland. They had vietnamese running them up there for them they used to call up and collect the cash every couple of week then shovel it all in the fobs play a bit then collect a chitty and receive normal cash. I soon cottoned on so when they brought the chitty up I just emptied the machine and gave em back the scotch money they had just put in. I had a word with them and said as long as they play the fobs for a while I would pay them out in sterling regardless of how much scottish they put in. It pretty much went somthing like they would stick a grand in and collect 7 ton. You would then get the odd time they would win then the odd time they would blow thousands in. They asked if they put normal bets on that won could they be paid in sterling which I said was fine so they then started sticking massive money on 1/3 and 1/4 football teams thats when they started to lose a lot. A lot of the chinks smoke and the smokin ban had come in so I would put the shutters down lock the door and let them sit on the machine smokin like chimneys. They were always polite but frighting at the same time !! Happy days !!
Report s.kenbo November 5, 2017 12:12 PM GMT
Another good story, Maineroad. Laugh
Report kemo sabe November 5, 2017 12:52 PM GMT
a very interesting and at least for me informative number of postings ; i hardley go into bookies these days cept to watch a race if im in the city ,,, but it does seem a different world from my formative years
Report maineroad November 5, 2017 1:06 PM GMT
Plenty of unbelievable yet true stories kenbo I will stick a couple more on in the week.

Off to the match now to watch the boys in blue.
Report s.kenbo November 5, 2017 1:40 PM GMT
I will look forward to reading them.

I hope you lose your footy game match though!
Report Aviboyd November 5, 2017 2:48 PM GMT
The government are missing a trick here.  It would take criminals an eternity to clean their 'proceeds' using the bookies money laundering service if stakes were reduced to £2 a spin!  It would take so much time actual crime figures would plummet imo...
Report GHOSTOFALEXBIRD November 6, 2017 7:56 PM GMT
Great story's Maine road thanks for posting
Report halcyon days March 24, 2018 4:32 PM GMT
Looks like the second favourite chaps !


Come on Matt Hancock get your finger out !
Report halcyon days March 24, 2018 4:38 PM GMT
Radgers.. no dough from you yet ?...   Shocked
Report jackboo March 25, 2018 9:09 AM BST
let em have 2000 pounds a spin , then the players will do there houses , and there will be no one playing , lol
Report halcyon days April 24, 2018 11:39 PM BST
No ''nifty'' takers !!!     Laugh
Report JML April 25, 2018 12:39 AM BST
JML • March 16, 2018 5:10 PM GMT
I don't think what he said changes anything,he is a politician after all.

My money is firmly on £2 but perhaps £20 and one spin per minute would be better.

Report JML April 25, 2018 5:08 AM BST
£2 is what nearly everyone wanted but IMO £2 is still £2 to much.
Report halcyon days April 25, 2018 5:05 PM BST
Well done J !   Wink
Report Deltâ April 25, 2018 5:16 PM BST
oi, you never answered ya fred!
Report ronnie rails May 6, 2018 7:53 PM BST
hal
hope you are well quick question report out this week
how do you bet.
have a nice evening
regards
Ronnie.
Report BlazingWalker May 6, 2018 8:31 PM BST
The government are making a right pigs ear of this , this review should have been concluded ages ago .
Report ronnie rails May 6, 2018 8:34 PM BST
blazing
19 months it has been.
Report JML May 6, 2018 11:23 PM BST
hope your job is safe Ronnie.
Report halcyon days May 17, 2018 5:18 PM BST
The ''nifty'' chance takes it !
Report wondersobright May 17, 2018 5:28 PM BST
don't give up the day job halc Laugh
Report halcyon days May 18, 2018 12:10 PM BST
2020...   retirement beckons Laugh
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