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4.25 Why did Supersta win?

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Replies: 167
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 14:58
If you still think after reading the above that a coup has taken place, you must havev a screw loose tbh.
By:
JetLoneStar
When: 23 Mar 17 15:00
Think Supersta is one of the few AW horses ive never backed, always struck me as the type of horse that could outrun its mark in a listed race if things fell right, not sure why.

Glad to see him doing well for you BB.
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 15:02
Cheers, Jet. Gven he is going to be rated high 90s minimum he might get the chance to prove your theory at some stage.
By:
ihal essex
When: 23 Mar 17 15:06
BB: just one simple question : Has Supesta been allowed to race to the best of its ability in every race since you became involved in its ownership?
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 15:13
Yeah, we just try and place the horses to win. He's won 7 times since we bought him and you win more races by trying to put your horses in the right races and trying than you do by arsing about and stopping them. On virtually every start where he has had a decent pace to run at on the all weather he has run well. A few times this year his chance has been scuppered by slowly-run races but he was there to try on all occasions. He was given a **** ride by Spencer last season on one occasion but it certainly wasn't at the request of the owners/trainer.
By:
barstool
When: 23 Mar 17 15:36
BB:

The horse who I was referring to having his career wasted by Mick Appleby is Pearl Nation.
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 15:39
Wow, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?
By:
duncan idaho
When: 23 Mar 17 18:04
this should be good  Grin
By:
asparagus
When: 23 Mar 17 18:12
I've absolutely no issues with Supersta yesterday or on any other day. It seems a horse that runs on it's merits to me. Good luck to the owners. However, a couple of the other rides (one particularly)  looked very interesting.
By:
barstool
When: 23 Mar 17 20:13
When Pearl Nation won at Southwell in March 2015 he was put up to 104. He could have run in any handicap in the UK that summer.He was in the form of his life.

Eileen and I wanted him see him to run at Royal Ascot. Instead, after the run in Sweden Appleby put him away in a field without even consulting us about it.

Since then I don't believe he has never tried to win a race in England.

I now believe he was stopped in the race at Southwell on 12/12/2015 (but did not realize it at the time), (doubled in price on course), Mullen found trouble when challenging, race won by Westwood Hoe owned by Craig Buckingham.

Before his next race (Southwell 30/3/16) I rang Mick on the Monday night to ask how the horse was as I was thinking of having a good bet on him. He opened up 9/2 on sportsbook and quickly went 7/2. Hills and 365 had him 6/1 but soon went to 5. I had £250 ew on at that price. As we went to the paddock on the day I noticed that Pearl Nation was showing 14/1 on the books and Moon River, Applebys other runner had halved in price to 7/2. When Chris Dixon said they were thinking of holding Pearl Nation up from his draw in stall three, I was flabbergasted (this is a big no no at this track and the horse is a galloper who needs to be at or near the forefront in his races. To reassure me  he said "if he jumps we will go forward but if he misses it we will tuck him in " Any one reading this please watch the race and make your own mind up. What happened next was even more bizzare. Andrew Mullen came into the paddock said a brief hello as he walked to the horse, jumped on him and took him down to the start early. THe only time he went to the start early before was at Catterick on his last run for Brian Baugh where he sweated up badly and ran no race. Mick Appleby had discussed this with me when he first went to his yard. When asked at the course why he had gone early Mick Appleby said "I dont know, It must be Midge's idea". The race was won by the Craig Buckingham Moon River. It was set up perfectly for him, afterwards drinking their champagne all they could talk about was speculate how much she was worth now. I think she was sold to run in the US, job done mate.

THe next couple of days were awful as it dawned on us what had happened. I checked the BHA website where it said that at the request of Mick Appleby Pearl Nation went to the start early. I e mailed him and said I knew he had asked the stewards for him to go down early, will you give me an explanation why?

His reply " it was Midge, he thought he always went down early" I still have this and if I knew how to put it on here I would. I can only think he went a bit too close for comfort in the run before so they wanted to take the edge off him.

The lie in the e mail was the nail in the coffin. We both knew we had been used and had no choice but to sell him and our share in Supersta.

I retired early due to ill health and  we bought the horse to enjoy in our retirement. Not to be. Eileen cried for days, she loved the horse.

The sale was concluded before the horse ran next at Chelmsford. No money for him 25/1. Old injury re surfaced so I was told, (smoke screen I think)

Two further runs and down to 92 now. It has taken over 2 wasted years to get there and the horses wealfare could have been comprised in the bargain (sending hin to the start early again), still, he can be bet now and that is all some care about. Owners like myself and Eileen can be used and trodden on.

So you have your answer BB. That is what we believe happened and you can tell me I am wrong, paranoid or whatever you like. I did not want to write this as there are a few people involved but what can I do, suffer in silence? Contact the BHA Intrgrety Department- I and a friend did, he asked them to interview me and guess what, not a peep from them but only to be expected I guess. .

Look after him please.
By:
ihal essex
When: 23 Mar 17 20:36
BB: WOW!!
Awaiting your reply to Barstool with great interest. Have always thought Supersta a talented animal capable of winning any race he's allowed to give his all in. Blindingly obvious he hasn't always been given the opportunity to do so!

A very strange ghostly thing happened  today after your stout insistence that Supersta has always been allowed to run on his merits - I looked out the window and, lo and behold, Shergar ridden by Lord Lucan flew past!! And I live on the 6th floor mate!!
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 20:53
Ihal, will answer your Supersta comments briefly before I read and reply to the long post from barstool. Supersta is a talented animal. I would like to know which races you think he has been prevented from giving his all in. As far as I am concerned you have an issue with people in the media owning horses and with the racing media in general. We have been trying all winter to win races with the horse and he has generally been thwarted by messy races, stop-start gallops, front runners dictating and not been taken on. It has been extremely frustrating and we tried the horse at Southwell as an experiment. But then I am only repeating what I have told you already.
Tell me when he has been prevented from giving his all, I await with interest.
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 20:57
You weren't wrong, Duncan!
By:
tyred
When: 23 Mar 17 21:04
I'll put the kettle on Crazy
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 21:12
Just watched the Southwell race and imo, broke well but Mullen was soon looking to his right to get in behind horses, despite there being enough room up the inner to drive a double-decker bus up!

Looks like there was a lovely winning gamble on the winner!

Who else knew, eh?
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 21:13
Not barstool Cry
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 21:19
barstool, when you're watching RUK and a certain pundit / presenter is on, what are your feelings?
By:
tyred
When: 23 Mar 17 21:20
stop trying to wind him up !
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 21:22
I'm not, genuine question, I'm feeling his pain here after reading that!
By:
pablo-fanque
When: 23 Mar 17 21:27
I just watched the race at Southwell on 12/12/2015

looked like a trier to me . I may be wrong
By:
ihal essex
When: 23 Mar 17 21:29
BB: will provide the detail you ask for tomorrow as having engrossing conversation at the moment with Lord Lucan who tells me he feels he is in need of a good lawyer due to scurrilous press reports over an alleged wrongdoing incident  - told Lucky I'd ask Rod In Pickle Partnership for access to their brief as he's gotta be the dog's bollox!!
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 21:34
I'll tell ya a story about Supersta, I once ntebooked it!

Back in 2014 at Haydock under Chris Catlin, when trained by Ron Harris. If memory serves, the stewards had them in, explanations noted. The form of the race worked out fantastically well - several winners came out of it, including Supersta, even if I did have to wait 16 months and 14 runs Cry
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 21:41
Chris, hi. Didn't realise that you were barstool.
The first thing I have to say in terms of horse realising/not realising his potential is that when the Dixon brothers, along with two other people agreed with you to purchase the majority share from you in Pearl Nation is that the horse was rated 74 and had won just one race in over two years in training with Brian Baugh. Over the time when we were co owners of the horse as you are well aware he won six times and his handicap mark rose to a mark of 104 in the process.

One of the main reasons (apart from not rating the previous trainer as being the same calibre as Mick) that we were interested in purchasing the horse in the first place was because as a son on Speightstown we believed that the horse had particular potential for a fibresand or dirt surface. None of the other owners (rightly in my opinion) believed that the horse would be as effective back on grass. This was an influential factor is us deciding to campaign the horse overseas and give him time off after the Swedish race. The horse was not stopped at Southwell. He had been off the track for 7 months and probably slightly in need of the run. Despite this he ran a solid race off a career high mark and was given every chance on the day (can't really see much evidence of the horse finding trouble on another watch of the race)

The horse (as all the owners were made aware of) sustained an injury in Dubai. If you don't wish to believe this was genuine, then you need to take it up with Mick. I absolutely take him at his word, Mick and his staff were disappointed with the performances of the horses from the yard in Dubai that winter but we were of the opinion that the horse was good enough to take his chance in some races out there for very good prize money. I don't recall any dissent from yourself or Eileen at the time, and if there was any it certainly never reached my ears.

Regarding the race at Southwell in March 2016, I was obviously not privy to the conversation you had with Mick about the horse the night before. Or to any conversations that have been had about the horse going to the start early or otherwise. In terms of the tactics on the day, I wasn't there but I would point out that he had come from off the pace previously when successful for us at the track. I won't dispute that the winner, who had won her previous two races (both over course and distance, I believe clocking good speedfigures for those who follow such things) was well backed. Again I can't really comment on the after race conversations because I wasn't there but trainers having two in a race is hardly unusual (particualarly as there aren't a wealth of opportunities for Southwell horses) and you would expect the trainer to be happy he had a winner and making plans for it. A horse we were invovled with (Westminster) was beaten by his stablemate on a day when we all thought he would win and had had good bets on him. He was beaten on merit by Khajaaly and although we were disappointed, we took it on the chin and didn't start looking for people to blame.

As for your comments about the horse being injured at Chelmsford, do you seriously belive that the horse would have been off the track for more than 9 months after that race for no good reason? The horse was injured and we weren't totally sure whether he would even be able to stay in training. Your view that the horse is being laid out for a gamble is (to use your own words) both wrong and paranoid. He showed enough in his work to suggest that he could still be competitive and we gave him a go in a claimer (at a price where we thought the horse would not be claimed) to see if he was still up to the job. We were happy with the run and tried him in handicap company at Wolves. He isn't as good away from Southwell but there weren't many races he could run in. Unforunately since then the horse has again been lame on the gallops and is shortly due to have a bone scan to see if we can get to the root of the ongoing phyiscal issues. It may be that the scan will lead to him being retired. Certainly he won't be kept in training if we do not feel that he is still capable of winning races. If he is retired, he is going to stay in the yard and I can assure you he will be well looked after.

I wish both yourself and Eileen well in your retirement.

Matt
By:
tyred
When: 23 Mar 17 21:48
I need a headache pill mow Crazy
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 21:49
Sorry!
By:
mackies-fc
When: 23 Mar 17 21:57
George I had it in my tracker from the same run. Great minds!
By:
GEORGE.B
When: 23 Mar 17 22:20
Looked to be going the wrong way after, mackies, now rated ? high 90s. That Mick Appleby must be some sort of  miracle worker Crazy
By:
maleuk01.
When: 23 Mar 17 22:25
What Barstool wrote would put anyone off from joining a syndicate.

Especially when you have no say in where and when it runs.
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 22:32
He didn't join a syndicate. He sold 75 percent of his horse in a private deal.
By:
Nosuchthingasvalue
When: 23 Mar 17 22:37
I have read the posts and watched Pearl Nation's race when beaten by Moon River. Appleby/Dixon behaviour is nothing short of disgraceful. You pay c.£1500 per month in training fees and don't get told he's going to post early. Then given nonsense about "if he breaks well". Mullen didn't try to get it anywhere near the fore.

Barton, to try and excuse the whole charade by citing an instance when Westminster got beat by a stablemate is a deflecting irrelevance. Pearl Nation does not belong to Appleby; it belongs to the owners and, as such, the owners are entitled to be consulted - not told - about running plans. And the whole unsavoury episode is compounded as soon as the trainer attempts further deceit by trying to blame the jockey. All involved are a disgrace. I'd be having a look at the contract that you had and be contemplating some sort of redress.
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 22:52
And as one of the owners, I would say that Mick's handling of the horses has been nothing short of exemplary. I am not going to debate what was or wasn't said in conversations that I was not party to. The horse ran a blinder in a race he couldn't win. The winner to whom Pearl Nation was conceding a stone on his first start for 7 months broke the course record.
By:
Nosuchthingasvalue
When: 23 Mar 17 22:58
Mick's handling of the horses may well be exemplary. His handling of one of his owners appears to have been quite the opposite. Furthermore, if Pearl Nation was not running on its merits when beaten by Moon River, his handling of punters and the the racing industry in general is both arrogant and disdainful.
By:
maleuk01.
When: 23 Mar 17 23:03
In fairness the horse Pearl Nation hasn't shown anything since to suggest it can win off 104.

I guess Barstool sold the remaining 25% of the horse at the right time then.

I must be the only person on here who doesn't know who Barton Bank is or what journalist he is Laugh
By:
Barton Bank
When: 23 Mar 17 23:08
Nosuchthingasvalue, it is a good job the horse was running on his merits then, isn't it. That performance was as good as he was at the time and almost certainly better than he is now.
maleuk01, I am not a journalist. And yes, we gave a very fair price for barstool's shares in both Pearl Nation and Supersta.
By:
GLASGOWCALLING
When: 23 Mar 17 23:15
what difference does it make who he is maluk01 its an annonymous forum, for what its worth i have yet to see any proof of the so called

" gamble " on supersta, more or less 6/1 in morning and returns 5/1 ....call me old fashioned but a gamble its not.

  maybe gamblers who were prepared to take a chance first time on the track.  come on IHAL where is proof of the "gamble ".... is it because you

beleived the nonsense on here of a 16/1 morn price. !!
By:
MJK
When: 23 Mar 17 23:16
Congratulations to Barstool for having the courage to post what he has posted. Confirms what everyone knows about AW racing , even though some punters refuse to believe what's in front of their faces. I would love to wake up in the morning and see on the news that every AW track has been blown up(with nobody injured of course).
By:
maleuk01.
When: 23 Mar 17 23:19
I did not say it was important and I never asked.
By:
the dealer
When: 23 Mar 17 23:20
Barstool posted his opinion which is fair enough but it doesnt mean he is right with what he thinks.
By:
GLASGOWCALLING
When: 23 Mar 17 23:24
fair enough maluk01. Happy
By:
barstool
When: 23 Mar 17 23:34
I might be completly wrong dealer but I have just posted what I believe is the truth and  I am comfortable with that.

BB. Two questions: Please explain why Pearl Nation went out from a best priced 7/2 overnight to 14/1 on track on the 30th of March.

Also tell me why Mick Appleby sent a worrier like Pearl Nation down to the post early?

We had some good times together it was just a shame it was soured in the end from our point of view.
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