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eric_morris
16 Apr 16 21:51
Joined:
Date Joined: 27 Jun 10
| Topic/replies: 7,903 | Blogger: eric_morris's blog
2/5 to stay in
15/8 to leave

Incredible how the reason for politicians wanting us to stay in the EU is being missed completely by a misinformed public. As if that's not enough the main reason for coming out is being totally distracted from at the same time and the sneaky politicians are getting away with it.

As the majority of Westminster politicians are from wealthy backgrounds and predominantly Oxbridge educated they have family and friends in lofty positions in multi-national companies across the uk and retired relatives with lots of savings.

As has been amply demonstrated by the Tories and Labour before, by them allowing complex tax laws to confuse anyone other than the rich who can afford expensive accountants to help them avoid paying tax, there is one rule for 'them' and another for the rest of us. It is an assumption from birth that they deserve more coming from privileged backgrounds.

So, what makes rich people in business richer without any effort and a lot of help from politicians.

CHEAP LABOUR

This is the reason Tory politicians want immigration and The Bliarite government before them. Corbyn has left wing motiviations admittedly for wanting to help others however the powers that be in this country for decades have been on business visits to countries like India to agree how doors can be opened to provide cheaper labour to uk labour markets. Who benefits? Multinational companies with massively reduced wage bills without having to raise a finger can attain vast wage profits with a little help from their friends. Some of these MP friends will be promised positions on executive boards in the future.


The great thing for politicians is they love the goal being missed completely by the public. Complaints of too much immigration gives them an easy race card to play against dissentors while still getting their cheap labour through the back door in their hundreds of thousands and business profits increasing massively. Just as a cherry on top lets not charge them taxes let them avoid that as well oh yes life is fine and dandy for big businesses in the uk with the help of their buddies in parliament. Immigration is absolutely necessary especially from countries at war, however not in the current numbers which are forcing wage compression for the working person of all creeds and colours across the uk. So yes, it isnt a matter of racism but that accusation will be used if necessary to shut us all up because we are missing the real reason goal every time  - the wage profits of multi-nationals who contribute to party funds and have massive influence over politicians of both major parties.

The real reason the public should be debating for leaving the EU is simple and it isnt immigration which will always exist.

It is one word, the reason we drew up a Great Charter against King John all those years ago, Magna Carta. The rights of the small man to have rights enforcable by law, our own law. The King was accountable.

Nothing has changed since the middle ages this word existed then and since as citizens have been given the right to vote in and out those who represent their best interests. If they are a bad lot we can vote them out. The EU do not directly represent us as a nation and are largely unaccountable.

The word we are voting to save in a matter of weeks that we have fought for since the middle ages is

DEMOCRACY

dont lose it!
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Report Oldgit1 June 11, 2016 1:20 PM BST
On Question time and other programmes the point has been made about cheap labour immigrant carers being needed for our increasing numbers of old people in care homes. When my mother was in one 20 years ago the carers were all local and she could converse and relate to them. Especially important to those with dementia or other health problems
A friend went into one last year at £2,100 a week and he could not understand or relate to any of them. Even the supposed Matron was not British and had not good English.
Report BARNEY21. June 11, 2016 1:40 PM BST
Now we know you are deluded if you believe that we live in a democracy,the Afghans are far nearer to democracy than we have ever been.
Report NOW WE KNOW June 11, 2016 5:36 PM BST
Sorry BARNEY21 but that is total lower male region genitalia and you know it.
Report BARNEY21. June 12, 2016 9:36 AM BST
Try "thinking about it" Now We Know" we do not have a democracy,it is/was/ will be **** in favour of the Establishment/elites ffs look at Corbyn who is mildly to the left they are lining up to bury him,read "Family of Secrets" by Ross Baker one of many good books on where the real power lies in the USA ergo the west,in Afghanistan the decision making is in the hands of the elected elders who know their areas know their requirements and pass judgement,sounds to me like democracy as it is supposed to be.
Report Rydal June 12, 2016 11:01 AM BST
Oldgit1

Who is going to look after your friend when we kick out all of these people who currently care for him?

Who is going to look after you (and me for that matter) when it is our turn to go in?

Be careful about getting rid of immigrants - you may get what you wish for.
Report east end boy June 12, 2016 12:20 PM BST
The remain (inane) camp say it may be 30 years before Turkey can join the EU but they also show concern for our youngsters future .em.
Report saddo June 12, 2016 12:46 PM BST
Been a news blackout for a few weeks on this immigrant sex attack in Newcastle, Farage will have no need to say I told you so.
Report Mister E June 12, 2016 12:58 PM BST
Agree with opening point,  cheap labour.
Plus for those not born into wealth but want to get hold of plenty, plenty of snecurs and fat pensions for a few years in Brussells (see Kinnocks etc.)
Report eric_morris June 13, 2016 12:16 PM BST
Turns my stomach seeing Stephen Kinnock doing the rounds on tv pushing remain. His parents were the orginal gravy trainers both getting massive payouts for positions in the EU after Kinnock was rejected by the uk electorate. Great life, fail at politics, go to the EU on massive wages and expenses with jobs for relatives and nobody can reject you again...
Report Oldgit1 June 13, 2016 2:07 PM BST
Rydal:
Perhaps I should have said that it was actually a nursing home and his stay there was short. He had two falls in six weeks. The first cracked his pelvis and hospital just sent him back for bed/chair rest. He then fell again and broke a leg and he went downhill rapidly after hospital stay and then sent back to the nursing home.
There are dreadful things happening in care homes now. They are money makers with waiting lists. Neglect one person to death and another takes their place. Most are now owned by companies.
The one my mother was in was owned by an ex nursing sister and her husband. He did the accounts and their two daughters worked there one as manager and the other as dietician. When she went into it we thought that she would only last for a few months. She was so well looked after that she was there for over eight years. 
When our turn comes we must hope for a quick end.
Report paganin June 13, 2016 4:17 PM BST
All brexiteers should just realise that if we leave then the UK economy will definitely be hit. Just don't go moaning about losing your jobs and not being able to afford holidays etc as if we do leave as that will be inevitable. Stock market will fall and hence pensions suffer. While I agree with many in that the EU has it faults and needs massive work, we are better in to achieve that imo. People voting out have to prepared for what economically will lie ahead as it won't be easy.
Report Oldgit1 June 13, 2016 5:30 PM BST
paganin... Alias David Cameron. Total rubbish.
Report paganin June 13, 2016 6:06 PM BST
Thanks Oldgit- you are such a wise old git...... You are right it will all be sweetness and light and the economy will go from strength to strength.... Now that is total rubbish.
Report paganin June 13, 2016 6:08 PM BST
I am afraid reading your posts oldgit you are just way out of touch with reality and to be honest the 21st century. You must be retired so I doubt the employment market or the UK economy is your greatest concern.
Report councillor June 13, 2016 6:26 PM BST
The politicians in charge do not care if the NHS or education services are stretched to breaking point. They are not affected as their kids go to private schools and they are able to pay for their own private health care so they are totally disaffected. The man in the street is the only sufferer in the long term whilst these parasites make fortunes off their backs. we will eventually have an underclass of cheap labour that will be tantamount to slave labour.
Report Oldgit1 June 13, 2016 6:53 PM BST
Paganin. I've been retired for 23 years since I was 59 and have a big investment portfolio that that I live on and do not expect it to be harmed much in the long term when we exit. It has taken many hits over the years and most shares recovered apart from the way overpriced dot com ones that I had intended to sell but thought I'd leave it until we came back from holiday.
The European economy is going down as will the Euro. I was never in favour of joining but the community is now too big and it was never envisaged to have to support ex communist block countries and support failing economies.   
Europe begins at Calais not Dover as Churchill said:
We are with Europe, but not of it.  We are linked, but not compromised.  We are associated, but not absorbed.
And should a European statesman address us and say "Shall we speak for thee?", we should reply "nay sir, for we dwell among our own people".
-- Winston Churchill 1953
Report Oldgit1 June 13, 2016 7:00 PM BST
Pagain...Thanks Oldgit- you are such a wise old git

A woman on Newsnight said she was undecided but  thought we should be part of Europe and it would be a happy place like in the Eurovision Song Contest:-)
They always vote against us, Royaume-Uni nil points.
Report NOW WE KNOW June 13, 2016 7:14 PM BST
The economic short term will be difficult if we leave, that is certain. The same can be said of staying as the whole of the EU and us are struggling with low growth despite QE and low interest rates.

The long term is the way to look at this as a cheaper sterling will more than offset tariffs and does anybody really think that if we produce quality products there will be no buyers? Our labour force is responsive to change and will change again if needed without the shackles of more federalism from the hopeless, deluded EU. Italian banks are on the edge, Spanish banks are looking undercapitalised again and although Greece is making progress it remains a basket case in reality.

Europe is on the brink and to be honest the best bet is to leave and maybe some meaningful reforms might just happen. Who would have believed France would be taking the action with its labour laws. They now recognise globilisation is  here and the game is up. This is our chance to get a decent start and move into new markets.

The markets will fall as like Oldgit1 I rely on investment income but personally my vote will be for future generations not short term scaremongering from the political elite. Cameron is preparing for a gravy train I saved Europe status imo and will look to cash in on this after the next election, he may have to look sooner and for something else.
Report paganin June 13, 2016 9:22 PM BST
Fair enough Oldgit and Nowweknow. I have a company where 50% of sales are into the EU so its different circumstances and obviously different objectives. I personally think its too big a risk too leave but in all honesty that is because of what I have- if I was in your shoes it is less of a risk. I am concerned with the short term consequences and have two children and 80 employees that I want to protect. To achieve this for me there is less risk in staying in the EU. I do take all the points on board but one thing you do have wrong oldgit is that in the short term and this could be anything from 2-5 years- then the economy will suffer- to what extent no one knows.However to say that is total nonsense is completely ignoring the uncertainty that a brexit will create. We will all see in 10 days anyway!
Report saddo June 13, 2016 9:43 PM BST
We live in a country with a PM who says we are no good without someone else doing the steering Laugh
Report barstool June 13, 2016 10:08 PM BST
Take a long hard look at Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy. All more than 20% youth unemployment and growing still, while they are in the Euro there is no hope for them and there is nothing they can do about it as they are so indebted to Germany and the IMF. Germany has benefited more than any other nation, no jobs lost there simply because of the Euro. They are desperate for us to remain as we are one of the few who pay in to help these dead countries. If we leave it will weaken Germany. Do it I say and leave them to clean up the mess they have created themselves.
Report NOW WE KNOW June 14, 2016 9:31 AM BST
Yep barstool, German 10 year bonds on a minus interest rate!!!! The EU is on the brink.
Report Oldgit1 June 14, 2016 10:19 AM BST
Paganin;
For what reasons would your company sales be hit by Brexit? How different is it for you to trade outside the Market? Is it any more difficult or less profitable?
Report paganin June 14, 2016 11:36 AM BST
Oldgit- when uncertainty is created the economy suffers- history has proven that and over the last 30 years plus banks have only worsened this more recently. This is where I see the problem. Banks will panic as they did in 2008 and this will exacerbate the problem.

People in Europe like in the UK won't be so willing to spend money- this is always the reaction to a change in political and economic circumstances- so won't spend as much. In terms of my position I have forward contracts with banks to sell euros at a given rate on a monthly basis. With a brexit sterling value will fall- as it has done since October last year when the referundum was suggested- and this puts you out of position with the banks from which they then demand to hold cash on your behalf- something called a margin call. This not only ties up your cash- businesses primarily go bust from not having cash-but a lack of sales in Euros which I believe will happen as a consequence of increased uncertainty- will result in me being short on the monthly requirement to fulfil the contractual obligations.

Therefore I will have to either take a loss against the position or buy Euros at a low rate to sell them back at a higher rate- both of which results in cash losses and means an unfavourable position.

This is the risk to me I see. Trading wont be as easy and dont forget unless you have a monopolistic position in the market, there all always alternatives. Moreover the european customers will know the euro has strengthened and will ask for and expect a price reduction in Euros to accomodate this.You can't tell me that my German and French customers- 2 of our 3 biggest unfortunately!!- won't also want to look for EU alternatives as trust me they will hate us leaving the EU.

All of this is of course my expectations and I dont know exactly how it will play out. However I am not sure I want to find out as the risk for me is potentially very high. For me and it is just my opinion we are safer in. I am no fan of the EU and want massive changes for the UK but I would rather work on this from inside the tent so to speak.
Report saddo June 14, 2016 1:50 PM BST
Everyone thinks the Euro will strengthen if we leave. I think once France et al then demand a referendum and the cracks appear, the Euro will be seen as risky and will be sold, just my opinion like.
Report paganin June 14, 2016 2:26 PM BST
In the longer term I agree for sure Saddo. However in the short term it will fall as will the stock market. A fair bit has been factored in already although both will react to the final decision.
Report saddo June 14, 2016 2:49 PM BST
I appreciate your short term personal predicament pagani, I do. But we have the chance to leave a sinking ship and should do so for the sake of future generations, not just our own.
Report paganin June 14, 2016 3:00 PM BST
No I understand Saddo. Just doesnt work at the moment for me. However if we do brexit I will roll up my sleeves and get on with it. Whatever it may be in this case!! The uncertainty is what makes it so difficult.
Report saddo June 14, 2016 3:04 PM BST
Best of luck whatever m8. Time to show Cameron that we can do ok without a ring through the nose.
Report paganin June 14, 2016 3:16 PM BST
Thanks Saddo- much appreciated. Not long to wait whatever. Cameron has been shocking whatever the outcome!
Report saddo June 14, 2016 3:20 PM BST
Denigrating the worth your own population to scare them into German hands is not a tactic I would have used. Hope he rots.
Report east end boy June 15, 2016 1:25 PM BST
Denmark will follow us out and then who will be next.
Report crepello June 15, 2016 2:11 PM BST
paganin - it is good to hear a balanced view from a real businessman ..

I intend to vote OUT purely on the grounds of democracy - it amazes me that Cameron is more than happy to let "a higher authority" make more and more decisions for us - what kind of a leader would do that?

Best of luck to you and your employees whatever happens next week.
Report paganin June 15, 2016 3:45 PM BST
Thanks Crepello. Whatever happens things need to change as Cameron and Osborne shouldn't be leading this country regardless of Europe. Osborne absolute mug- neither seem to learn either!
Report Oldgit1 June 15, 2016 5:50 PM BST
Interesting Blomberg article
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/brexit%e2%80%99s-first-100-days-promise-chaos-fear-damage-limitation/ar-AAh12I6

There is another on MSN News that I can't find at the moment where Polls in France, Germany and I think Italy show that voters there believe that we should leave and that Brexit will be to our advantage
Report eric_morris June 15, 2016 6:01 PM BST
The majority of Italians now want their own referendum on Itexit
Report OwenGlendower June 15, 2016 8:25 PM BST
...because we'll all be better off?
Report eric_morris June 22, 2016 7:43 PM BST
Leave picking up momentum again
Report Captain Christy June 22, 2016 8:14 PM BST
still 1.33 to remain, where's this momentum?
Report eric_morris June 22, 2016 9:35 PM BST
Wtf with the CH4 Leave/Remain/Undecided % indicators they just moved drastically from Leave to Remain after Katie Price who admitted she knew nothing about it spoke Undecided looks **** here, CH4 have been biased but this is outrageous even for them
Report Hot Donna from Ilkley June 23, 2016 1:29 AM BST
Or could it be that putting all the European nations under the blanket of the EU ensures that any potential renegade states are kept in check and thus no obstacle to the big plan of the greater israel world domination project
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 5:14 AM BST
The greatest day in our history, democracy wins couldnt be more happy!!
Report deadbrain59 June 24, 2016 6:55 AM BST
cameron to resign.
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 6:57 AM BST
Definitely has to go.

Maybe second best day in our history after WW2 victory in Europe.
Report Oldgit1 June 24, 2016 7:32 AM BST
eric-morris
"Maybe second best day in our history after WW2 victory in Europe"
Lets have a Victory Parade through Westminster.
I'm probably one of the few here who remember VE day. I remember the Flags and the crowds out on Edinburgh's Princes Street. American soldiers were throwing candy from the windows of the Red Cross Club. Since then America has been taking much more than candy from us.
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 7:38 AM BST
Amazing Oldgit1.

My wife and I went to London for the march from Hyde Park to the Houses of Parliament to Keep The Pound years ago. Amazing result then, amazing result now.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 7:47 AM BST
Farage nearly lost the out vote, I feel sure with his absence the out vote would have been much bigger, the swing in bookmakers opinions and polls was something in the region of 20% minimum, astounding swing, and just goes to show that the so-called elite  dreadfully  clueless regarding basic mathematics and prediction. Cameron must go, all these idiots saying the vote was close would not be echoing those words were the result reversed. Wink
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 7:48 AM BST
metro john..we wouldnt have got the referendum vote without the influence of Farage within Ukip there is little doubt about that.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 7:50 AM BST
He cost votes in the midlands believe meWink
Report metro john June 24, 2016 7:51 AM BST
I would have been much bigger than it already appears.
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 7:52 AM BST
You could be right, other areas maybe the opposite but you wouldnt have had the vote without his massive influence.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 7:54 AM BST
I feel he as no influence, he packed up and went on holiday to celebrate his disruption of the socialist vote after the last general election, I had hoped that would be the end of him, UKIP remain Tories in disguise. The second wing of the Tory party.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 7:57 AM BST
Now we have to watch the deception by the elite ruling class as they try to slow exit or create new schemes to stay on the outskirts of the EU, don't let them do it!
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:01 AM BST
The shares and pound may drop, life is still a struggle today as it was yesterday for those of us on the breadline, off to work we go, another day another dollar. The fact is things are so bad that capitalism is offering the poor nothing, and last night the poor have turned out in numbers to give  the greedy b a s t ar ds  their two fingers!
Report brigust1 June 24, 2016 8:02 AM BST
Good morning MJ.

They have only gone and done it!. What a great day.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:04 AM BST
Morning Brigust, now we know the consensus opinion that no general election can reveal, we must protect population growth in such a small country , we must protect low wages from getting lower.LoveWink
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:04 AM BST
If we can't achieve it here, India ,China and the rest of the world have no hope!
Report brigust1 June 24, 2016 8:05 AM BST
I'm fed up with kowtowing to Ireland, kowtowing to Scotland and kowtowing to the EU. Today we are free.  How many other members of the failing institution that is the EU will be calling for a referendum in their own countries?
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:08 AM BST
Yes,  the break up of Europe is imminent, let the jocks go that way if they wish , let um build a fecking wall if they want, we will control our own taxes, build our own Hospitals.
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:11 AM BST
Scotland independent?, not according to their leaders, they are running to  tax blanket of Europe.LaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report brigust1 June 24, 2016 8:14 AM BST
They won't call for a vote in Scotland because they would lose it. Their finances are crippled and they would, at the very least, have to accept the Euro. It ain't gonna happen. Who would vote for a failing EU instead of a free and progressive UK?
Report brigust1 June 24, 2016 8:16 AM BST
Cameron may resign!!!
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:21 AM BST
Yes Cameron must resign.The people of Germany may well surprise their own leadership within a short space of time, the wealth of Britain will be much missed!Wink
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:23 AM BST
We can create our own laws right now, forget the red tape of Europe for that, we may have to honour our obligations, but we can close the borders!
Report metro john June 24, 2016 8:24 AM BST
Anyone denying this is lying.
Report brigust1 June 24, 2016 8:33 AM BST
No Cameron, no Osbourne. The only way is up.
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 7:14 PM BST
Brilliant!!!
Report Captain Christy June 24, 2016 7:23 PM BST
Fack me there are going to be some disappointed people when it all goes tits up and they realise the EU wasn't to blame for all the ills of the world.
Report Oldgit1 June 24, 2016 7:33 PM BST
Captain Christy:
Have you ever considered emigrating? Do you have anything to offer another country?
Report Captain Christy June 24, 2016 7:48 PM BST
here we go, perhaps you want to construct some gas chambers for people who disagree with your bollox?
Report eric_morris June 24, 2016 7:53 PM BST
Oh dear that is one of the reasons Remain lost. Normal people with valid arguments totally object to cheap race cards now. You will have to use constructive arguments as a large amount of Leavers do not have white skin now which is fantastic.
Report Captain Christy June 24, 2016 7:56 PM BST
I can't remember anyone ever saying until today if you disagree with the way the country is going why don't you emigrate, fascists taking over.
Report Captain Christy June 24, 2016 7:59 PM BST
Might come to it though. Plenty had to emigrate from Nazi Germany to get away from the scum
Report kavvie June 24, 2016 8:01 PM BST
a years time we will see how its going...
Report saddo June 24, 2016 8:02 PM BST
Do you really think there are 17 million Nazis here cap'n?
Report saddo June 24, 2016 8:03 PM BST
or just being a bit dramatic?
Report Captain Christy June 24, 2016 8:05 PM BST
We've just had a referendum where the main reason most voted was they didn't want foreigners coming in, worrying times if you ask me.
Report kavvie June 24, 2016 8:09 PM BST
too late now..they are here
Report Rydal June 24, 2016 8:10 PM BST
Guys

Are we planning to close the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic in the next 2 years? A simple yes or no would suffice.
Report kavvie June 24, 2016 8:17 PM BST
wont happen..it was for security reasons before..theres no border patrols between norway and sweden..wont be any in ireland either..
Report Rydal June 24, 2016 8:19 PM BST
So how do we stop the asylum seekers coming in across the border?
Report metro john June 24, 2016 9:39 PM BST
So The EU wants the UK too be seen punished, why because they want to put the fear of god into the other 26 nations, some strong leadership will be needed, they are intent(the elite) too make it hard for the poor in this country. Bring it on, for the EU will no longer exist within 5 years, nations preparing to put forward referendums, and citizens thinking about the extra  taxes the EU will place on them , when the UK leaves. Turbulence and major depression will unfold before us and them, best they consider their own positions, before they get nasty!Wink
Report Oldgit1 June 24, 2016 11:40 PM BST
Captain Christy.
"here we go, perhaps you want to construct some gas chambers for people who disagree with your bollox?"
Ridiculous man. You are the who does not like people with other opinions. Go lay down and have a goods nights sleep before you crack up completely.
Report paganin June 25, 2016 3:33 PM BST
I think Captain Christy is spot on Oldgit. I am not saying all leave voters did it but I have to say the majority and certainly the working class leave voters did so primarily over immigration and keeping foreigners out. Problem is and what they will see over the next 2 years is that more will come in. The whole thing before unsatisfactory and what has happened since is more so. People everywhere are resigning and dodging doing the hard work that the referendum result now requires. Time for people in important roles to stand up and do what is best for UK regardless of whether they were leave or remain. Its a complete mess and so far my worst fears have been confirmed. However now its time for the government and civil service to stand up and get the best deal for the UK even if like me they are thoroughly cheesed off with the whole sorry episode.
Report Oldgit1 June 25, 2016 8:54 PM BST
paganin.
The Captain comes out with the usual reprehensible gas chamber remark of those who have no real answer to their opponent.
No doubt he has signed the petition:-)
Can you blame those working class people living in living in working class areas that have been taken over by immigrants who have had their areas completely changed for voting as they did.
Living in a South Coast holiday resort I ask visitors where they are from and what their area is like. At one time they used to often say that it was another Tescoland. Now they say that they are one of the remaining 2 or 3%.
Even some one time resorts like Bognor Regis are now immigrant towns. Bognor has 20,000 East Europeans. Most working in local agriculture and some of the women in Butlins.
Report Captain Christy June 25, 2016 9:18 PM BST
History has a habit of repeating itself. The 20000 people there are working, many as what we would see as 'cheap labour',they are a benefit to the economy. Just one question, if Cameron thought this fcuking crazy sh1t was going to lead to anything positive do you think he would have still resigned? He knows this is only going one way.
Report Captain Christy June 25, 2016 9:18 PM BST
History has a habit of repeating itself. The 20000 people there are working, many as what we would see as 'cheap labour',they are a benefit to the economy. Just one question, if Cameron thought this fcuking crazy sh1t was going to lead to anything positive do you think he would have still resigned? He knows this is only going one way.
Report saddo June 25, 2016 9:24 PM BST
Are you not furious with Cameron for buying another term as leader with the referendum as the price cap'n?
Report Captain Christy June 25, 2016 9:31 PM BST
I fcukin hate Cameron anyway, they are killing democracy all of them with their lies.
Report saddo June 25, 2016 9:34 PM BST
What a coward he turned out to be, caused a mess and fooked straight off, shame Merkel didn't feel obliged to do the same.
Report Captain Christy June 25, 2016 9:37 PM BST
yep, he has run away as if to say 'don't blame me' when it was him who caused it by agreeing to a referendum in the first place.
Report GEORGE.B June 25, 2016 11:03 PM BST
Perhaps the promise of a referendum in his manifesto was what helped him to a majority win at the last election?

Labour weren't so keen!

Labour says it will seek to reform the EU, cut waste, but the economic case for membership is "overwhelming" and will only allow a referendum in the case of a major transfer of powers.
Report saddo June 25, 2016 11:24 PM BST
What a country, PM runs off Leader of opposition simply refuses to accept immigration was owt to do with it and says there should be no upper limit on newcomers. We're on our own  Laugh
Report kavvie June 25, 2016 11:35 PM BST
an astonishing and bewildering act of self harm taken by people not aware of what and why they were voting to leave..sadly its over now and cant be reversed..
Report saddo June 25, 2016 11:43 PM BST
Good, better a day as a lion than a lifetime as a mouse imo.
Report kavvie June 25, 2016 11:45 PM BST
as they marched into the valley of doom!!  well said..
Report saddo June 25, 2016 11:47 PM BST
Valley of the unknown perhaps, but you knew you were voting to be a mouse.
Report kavvie June 25, 2016 11:56 PM BST
eec   european economic community     eu   european union    both evolving into a mutually beneficial parliament,community and union for the betterment of its 28  members    such a big set up will and has its faults but blaming it for any individual countrys  ills is silly and shortsighted...better inside the tent than outside...as will be realised soon...
Report eric_morris June 26, 2016 9:03 AM BST
The toys are well and truly being thrown out of the Labour Party pram now as they move towards a clearout via sacking or resignation of pro EU supporters unhappy that Corbyn has held back knowing himself the global elite are the real winners of a Remain decision.

Hopefully at the back of Corbyns mind he is now going toake his party back to representing the working man and helping refugees rather than bowing to those Remainers who want to lower our childrens living standards for the economic benefit of the rest of the EU with the by product of making the rich multinationals richer in the process.

Hilary Benn sacked he was the most pro EU campaigner they had, then we have Heidi Alexander very pro EU contributing an article in the Gradian only 2 weeks ago...

"I was also taught at school that one of the founding principles of co-operation in Europe was to help our poorer neighbours to develop economically – to create a bigger market for our exports, to level out the inequalities on our continent which cause resentment and division.

I was taught in my geography lessons that migration had push factors as well as pull factors. And as I have grown up, I’ve known that had I not had the good fortune to be born in one of the richest countries in the world, I would have done whatever it took to create a better life for myself – and if that had meant moving to another country, I would have gone. I dare say Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson would have done the same.

If we want to see lower levels of immigration, surely we have a direct interest in strengthening the economies of our European neighbours and increasing the opportunities for their populations at home in their own countries? If we want lower levels of non-EU immigration too, surely we must remain committed to our wider overseas development programme and to international efforts to expand trading links and opportunities?

The answer to immigration is not to put up fences and build walls but to work together to create a more equal Europe and a more equal world. I am a Labour MP because this is what I believe. It is why my postal vote has already been despatched to stay within the EU, and it’s why I feel distressed and disillusioned by the one-sided, simplistic and at times sickening campaign of those who want us to leave.

I can’t bear the thought of waking up on 24 June to find us trying to turn back the clock to a time that has never existed. Families cross international borders like never before, business spans continents and not just countries. We must look to the future and not allow narrow nostalgia and blinkered policy prescriptions to dominate our national debate"
Report eric_morris June 26, 2016 9:13 AM BST
So before you feel too sorry for Heidi Alexander resigning bear in mind she would rather the countries in the EU less wealthy than ourselves, increase their wealth at the cost of reducing the wages and job prospects of the working man/woman and our children in the UK.

That is not the Labour Party we need. Her like dont even care about the rich getting richer at the expense of hard working people in the UK.
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