Killultagh Vic £835 @ 1000 :o

who gets caught with this ? is it betfair or is it just someone who usually hoovers but it blew up spectacularily today ?

Betfair just take their percentage.

can't even imagine what the layers at that price are thinking right now, everything must be spinning

875 laid at 1000/1 so must have a pretty big bank - prob the majority of this down to a single backer I would guess too - OUCH!!

true what they say that you get caught in the end

plus 25k at 9.6 so someone is happy , probably tried to bet 1.01 before it crumpled and got 9.6

No problem for them....just back it back at 10's with 100x the stake

All the money lost is won by someone else + Betfair so it's like a lottery win for someone and bankrupcy for someone else. Such is life.

i had £500 sat at 1.01 as he came to last fence and thought to myself nah whats the point. but the chances are would have got matched much higher. ffs

Proof that the 1000 layers are clicking as the jockey falls and not after the jockey has fallen.

Person who lost probably pays premium charge at 40% too.  Paid 40% on all his winnings and now lost 400k and won't get any PC back.

Agreed Clydebank, that's what makes the premium charge so disgusting. BF take their cut with no risk at all.

what are the average winning per race for a 1000 layer? i would guess it only about £10

shocking day for someone

whatdifference 17 Jan 16 15:42 
plus 25k at 9.6 so someone is happy , probably tried to bet 1.01 before it crumpled and got 9.6


why would anyone be trying to lay before the mistake

is it a bookie at the course or what that takes this risk ? always wondered. Often think betfair absorb these 1000/1 as they are  step ahead of us.

Jan 17, 2016 -- 10:07AM, roida wrote:

whatdifference 17 Jan 16 15:42  plus 25k at 9.6 so someone is happy , probably tried to bet 1.01 before it crumpled and got 9.6why would anyone be trying to lay before the mistake

someones backing as it jumps the last with slower pictures than the layer. seen it happen a few times.

on the positve side-there wont be any PC charges for a while-its a decent buffer

there are 2 big (£500 ish) in country..1 of them laid it.

the 25k 9.6 layers was almost certainly the benefactor.

Yup. Wondering if they're annoyed at giving £100k away of their £400k+ winnings. Obviously that sounds a silly thing to say when they've still won £300k+.

perhaps betfair will bring in a rule to help the layer as they did with that mare in ireland a few years ago.

No need I'll get it back in a couple of weeks.

TOTALLY different to Voler La Vadette

I shall recover my losses by following the big fella for a week or so............

I was there today near the winning line , I can fully understand that bet ,horse looked sure to fall , Ruby pulled it back from the brink ,and even though he lost an iron still galvanised Vic to show a remarkable turn of foot to get back up , one of the greatest rides EVER imo.

when you're risking 1/2 mill you have to be certain...im not sure it was laid when it went on belly or more likely when the camera made it look like it was 4L down with 50yds to go..then the camera switched and was still 1/2f to go..

Exactly.

Camera made it look like the line was right there....Then it panned out.

Plus Dessie might have had an influence.

is the guy dead who lost his house on this? betfair don't allow that much exposure anyway

Playing devils advocate here before anyone goes off on one.

Should Ruby have eased off after that mistake? The horse couldve been seriously injured after that bad mistake and then to push him out like it was the finish of the Gold Cup was crazy behaviour on his part.

He didnt know the horse wasnt injured and when you see the photos of its back end stretched out like that, Ruby could have cost the horse in the long run. Its mid January and bigger targets lie ahead.

All that said, shame the horse is with WPM as it must be some animal to win from that position over what would appear to have been at face value, an inadequate trip.

tend to agree re. yr first point Sam...not sure why it's a shame it's with Mullins though...could win him his first Gold Cup, this one

My point re being with Mullins is that is there not a chance it may not run in certain races at the Festival to avoid the Ricci horses?

Also, maybe its just me, but with the likes of Douvan, Vautour, and Faugheen stealing all the headlines, this fellow seems to have flown under the radar a big bit (unfairly as a past Festival winner).

obviously Mullins has to shuffle his pack but dont think he's in the habit of not running horses if he thinks they are the likely winner


quite happy for him to be under radar and poss defeat of Thistlecrack has been overlooked a bit cos didnt happen at Cheltenham (and the race KV won at Chelt was a hcp) but 4/1 fav for race he's not certain to run in at Fez suggests he aint that far under radar! besides, dont think Douvan, Vautour, and Faugheen have 'stole' any headlines...they are all top-notchers who have earnt their headlines and if he turns out better than those 3 he'll be some horse indeed

I didnt say they didnt deserve to be in the headlines, more that because they have been, this fellow has flown under the radar.

Still only rated 149 over hurdles....

Coral Cup, SS?

Nah, that 149 must be outdated cos he's not been entered over hurdles in this country since last spring...no way he can still be 149 after beating Thistlecrack with 154 horse 8l back in 3rd

more likely when the camera made it look like it was 4L down with 50yds to go..then the camera switched and was still 1/2f to go..

my thoughts exactly about the camera but surely it was when it looked like falling as i think the lay back at 9's was when it looked like the line was coming,there's a few irish courses like that regarding the camera panning out and there's still half a furlong left,soul destroying which ever which way

tomhunt    18 Jan 16 12:19
soul destroying which ever which way

The layer was trying to steal 400 quid - they don't have a soul.

so would 99% of the forum if the opportunity was there.

we are all trying to steal each others money , the majority of the time I have no sympathy when 1.01s get beat or a 1000 wins  , but in this instance I feel for the person who lost a fortune , if it is 1 person . if it's a load of people it's not as bad .

anyone hazard a guess at how much the x matching bot took?

dont think you get 'loads of people' laying 1000 at ATR tracks, pablo tbh

was still plenty at 1000 sat there in the 2.15 at plumpton ?

I wouldn't know Duncan , some people only play at certain prices .

roida would be best to comment on that as I have never bet in-running on course .

what's your point, bugsy?

well, i wouldnt know either, pablo, but surely to be laying 1000 at ATR course you would either have to be in a box at the track or have fast pics...and of those limited number of people, how many are going to be 1000 layers and how many are going to make the mistake of thinking that was a 1000-1 chance?

I honestly don't know Duncan .

pablo-fanque    18 Jan 16 13:36 
we are all trying to steal each others money

We may be betting against each other but only a few are literally 'stealing' by laying fallers. The layer who got burned wouldn't have given a damn about who'd lost the 400 quid, so why should any of us care that he did 400 grand?

CLYDEBANK29
CLYDEBANK29 17 Jan 16 15:47 Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 5,975 | Blogger: CLYDEBANK29's blog
Person who lost probably pays premium charge at 40% too.  Paid 40% on all his winnings and now lost 400k and won't get any PC back.
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Stevie Gerrard
Stevie Gerrard 17 Jan 16 15:50 Joined: 06 Dec 01 | Topic/replies: 3,501 | Blogger: Stevie Gerrard's blog
Agreed Clydebank, that's what makes the premium charge so disgusting. BF take their cut with no risk at all.
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yes,been saying this for ages -  the real disgusting thing about this charge - the charge otherwise i can live with .

MDH , stealing may have been the wrong word, "take" may have been more appropriate .

The layer who got burned wouldn't have given a damn about who'd lost the 400 quid, so why should any of us care that he did 400 grand?

pretty similar as what I said , if it is 1 person, I do sympathise more so than if it is a few people , purely because of the amount lost .

It's alright saying you feel sorry for the guy but if he is a Premiership footballer or merchant banker it looks like wealth re-distribution to me.

Mikael D'Haguenet

what about all the track players that lay shorter prices than 1000 on fallers before we even see it fall on our tv pics are they not stealing also or is it just the 1000-1 layers like rodia who are thieves ? no offence rodia by the way its Mikael D'Haguenet opinion not mine
there has to be a ceiling price and if the layers are not on track how are they stealing we see it as fast as they do

the 1000 layers do at track or on raw feed.

bugs bunny    18 Jan 16 15:59 
Mikael D'Haguenet

what about all the track players that lay shorter prices than 1000 on fallers before we even see it fall on our tv pics are they not stealing also or is it just the 1000-1 layers like rodia who are thieves ? no offence rodia by the way its Mikael D'Haguenet opinion not mine
there has to be a ceiling price and if the layers are not on track how are they stealing we see it as fast as they do

I understand all of that. I'm not saying it shouldn't be allowed or anything. All I'm saying is that the layer was trying to be clever by laying a faller at 1000 in order to pick up a few hundred quid - he would have had no sympathy for the backer, so why anyone has any sympathy for the layer is beyond me.

I actually doubt rodia would expect, or want, any sympathy had he been the layer.

MDH , as I said, it's not how they lost it I have sympathy for as that is all part of the game. it's the amount that is/was potentially lost .

fair enough but im sure theres plenty on track laying fallers shorter than 1000 , the 1000 layers cant be at every track on the same day but yet no one moans about them as they rarely see the bet on the graph unless its highlighted by the amount matched like last week a big bet was matched at "18-1 before it had fallen on ruk, you say you know for sure who laid the 1000 so was he in ireland on track or on the raw feed

I don't particularly have any sympathy for the layers in this case but I can't see any merit in adding abuse or wallowing in their situation. As Roida says, most of us would take an advantage if we saw it (that's the nature of the game).

No sympathy from me for the fallen/stricken horse layers, these people have accumulated fortunes by placing no lose transactions(not bets) and are prepared to split their thievings 60/40 with their accomplices Betfair who supply them with the platform to do so.
On this occasion they got it wrong and laid a horse which only looked as though it was falling.

what's surprising is the lack of this story in mainstream press/websites - backer won a large sum and layer lost a large sum, if this happened with punter/bookie then theres lots of hullabaloo, but in this case haven't seen anything apart from on forum..it'll take a lot of quick click falls/unseats for the layer to get back his losses.

having seen the race a few times, it only looked for about one second that the horse was actually going to fall (when his head went into the turf) but it took a few seconds to regain stride, perhaps the layer was thinking the jockey would pull up (to save any possible injury to the horse who must have stretched a few muscles during recovery) but forgot that aforementioned jockey remounted a young kauto star several years ago and almost won that race too...

personally for me, in running betting is a way of 'getting out' if something i've backed is going very badly and i very rarely press if my fancy is going very well, but clearly there are specialist in-running players using whatever means (mostly technological) to get an advantage

finally i can't believe anyone would stake one old penny based on the commentary of dear old dessie, he often calls the wrong horse all the way round!

I doubt Betfair want anybody scrutinising the integrity of people placing transactions after the event and them taking a 60% cut of it,or else it would be plastered all over the Racing Press.

Jan 18, 2016 -- 3:55AM, Somerset Sam wrote:

My point re being with Mullins is that is there not a chance it may not run in certain races at the Festival to avoid the Ricci horses?Also, maybe its just me, but with the likes of Douvan, Vautour, and Faugheen stealing all the headlines, this fellow seems to have flown under the radar a big bit (unfairly as a past Festival winner).

Mullins said afterwards that this horse would be in the Arkle if they didn't have Douvan

Jan 18, 2016 -- 3:36AM, Somerset Sam wrote:

Playing devils advocate here before anyone goes off on one.Should Ruby have eased off after that mistake? The horse couldve been seriously injured after that bad mistake and then to push him out like it was the finish of the Gold Cup was crazy behaviour on his part.He didnt know the horse wasnt injured and when you see the photos of its back end stretched out like that, Ruby could have cost the horse in the long run. Its mid January and bigger targets lie ahead.All that said, shame the horse is with WPM as it must be some animal to win from that position over what would appear to have been at face value, an inadequate trip.

There's more than a chance he would've pulled the horse up if it was a run of the mill novice chase at one of the gaff tracks

bugs bunny
18 Jan 16 16:18

fair enough but im sure theres plenty on track laying fallers shorter than 1000


if you know it's fallen, not much point laying shorter and missing out on amounts waiting to be matched at bigger odds...1000 layers get matched on all back bets in place below those odds too ie big bet matched @ 18 might have been a 1000 layer

This implies to me that the exchange is no longer punter versus punters but business with large balances sweeping up what they think is easy money and would not surprise me if this was bet fair who took the loses here

@johniek: If roida says he knows who the 1000 layers are I'm happy to take his word for it and not make up conspiracy theories that it's BF doing it.

not all track players have a big pot to bet with duncan , so they will try pinch a bit at smaller odds before the top layers fire in , most of them are on the tracks live because they basically cant read a race and desperatly need to go up and down the country to get the time advantage if betfair ever got live pictures they would be on the dole

do you mean read a race like simon holt, , managed to call 3 losers inside the last 200 yds on fri at lingfield

Remember kauto doing a similar thing and missed the arkle because of it so hold your ante post bets.

Thers suprisingly few track players who lay 1000...most aint got the money...few aint got the balls...
when im at track i have a column for £400 @ 50 and regularly lay single figures...but theres been 2 £500 @1000 layers on bf for years...1 does tracks midlands-south...other plays raw feed at home...1 of them laid it yesterday.They get the jackpot when something falls when long odds on.

This might sound like a stupid question.Why do they get the jackpot when something falls at long odds on?They surely can only win up to £500?

The guy who laid this should have quit while he was ahead. What's the point of risking half a mil when youve already made big money? Pure greed, tbh.

Tolmi...£500 is the jackpot.

Thefear..its not a risk...'if its fallen'

Some folk lay to liability? Bigger jackpot surely?

Roida - is it not possible to place a lay bet to lose 500k so that you could win more than the £500 max you could win laying specifically £500 @ 1000?

Lot of layers use liability button on gruss.

yes Paul...but not guaranteed to get £500 as the 1000 layers quickly overide the samller odds.

I now understand - thanks roida

It must be a fascinating battle trying to be the first to react but conscious of either pressing too soon(a la Kilulltagh Vic) or pressing the wrong horse.

As Barney Curley said...'a take out merchant'  put nothing into the game..

until they make an error

So it must have been the raw feed player at home that laid it then?

wouldnt the quickest guy to lay this one have been the luckiest out of all those who got caught? he surely would have got 40 or 50k back on at decent prices?

i know sumone who laid 6000/2000 when made the mistake..then panicked and had £5000 back at 9.6 when the £12500 @ 9.6 appeared.

Rodia,so does the player who covers the midlands to south just play on track then I guess you know him well ,are you saying it wasn't him ,as jack says it must of been the player who uses the raw feed from home do you know him  jack  ,but then again I'm sure in Ireland and UK tracks there is  over 1 mil sat there at the top price on betfair some days which means they must both play raw feeds so like you say it could be either of them

1 does tracks midlands-south & raw feed at home...yorkshire bloke only plays from home...not sure as yet which laid it.

you can have 5/1 yorkshire

how do you know the fear do you lay 1000 as well ?

5/1 isnt tempting if you know.

rumour is the other one laid it. No i wouldn't lay big prices. Bet small to win big (not the other way round).

is he still alive

and what now for him?

does he try and claw some back still laying 1000/1

or does he have to sell his house?

HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HES GOT A FLAT IN UPTOWN NORTH SHIELDS ,,

WORTH £50K ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, IF HE DOES IT UP !!

ZODIE

Jan 19, 2016 -- 1:09PM, SIR_Bond wrote:

is he still aliveand what now for him?does he try and claw some back still laying 1000/1or does he have to sell his house?

Not sure I'd be so quick to feel sorry for him. Yes, it's a horrible sickening hit, but he must know the risks as well as rewards. And you only have to see how much money gets matched on 1000s - and in many cases lots hoovered below - on some fallers to see how profitable this strategy can be. Almost all of the time.

zodie desperately hoping roida laid it,all because roida pays premium charge and actually wins.

is he still alive

and what now for him?

does he try and claw some back still laying 1000/1

or does he have to sell his house?

yes no yes no