trading question

I'll give you some good advice...dont bother...your a sprat in a swimming pool full of great whites.

Laying really is just like backing odds on shots. If you can't make it pay backing horses at less than 2.00 why would laying make a profit?

Listen to jaws

Source a big furry trading slipper , one that holds two feet a dog and flask of warm runny porridge banana and honey .ITs the way forward imo ,keep out the red and off the forum  , never walk under a ladder

*traders porridge must be made from goats milk and heather honey ,with finely sliced fair trade bananas

Geeks Toy.com, imo. You can get a free trial of software and loads of info in forum.

Betfair always need new traders.

xaar, honestly dont bother trying anything as there have been hundreds and hundreds of users that have tried and failed miserably, a once great sport ruined into no more than greyhound flapping track mentality.
There is a few on here thats had the rub of the green and honestly believe that they can make it pay all thats happening is in the long term it ends up one way in you losing your money at best.
When you get horses drifting from 2/1 to 8/1 in a few minutes they know more than you and believe it nearly every race is cut up in some way or an other.

Start with minimum stakes. If you can't profit then it wont cost you much. If you can profit then up your stakes. Success is possible.

back midrange,stop after a win,come back next day.bsp

xaar why not enter the lay competition and see how you get on...if nothing else it concentrates the mind and a new 'race' starts today.

dumplingheid clearly one of life's loosers...he loses, presumes everyone else does too

loads of 'it can't be done' type comments by people who can't do it. As long as there is movement in price then trading can be done. practice practice practice. Forget info and training or e-books and seminars, just actually do it and practice until you get a feel for it. What will get you beat is not all the sharks but your own mindset, not everyone has the mental strength to make it pay. Good Luck

l,l,l,6.5.won.=+1 1/2.

deadbrain59, that's a rather unorthodox trading method you got going on there...

it works.

duncan im afraid im not one of life's losers , i havent had a serious bet for many many years when i seen what was coming for your information my last serious bet was lord samposin surely without googling it you know what happened? therefore i got out at the right time because of this.
Ive talked 50/60 people who actually had the same contrived dross opinion as most of the guys who claim to win by studying form etc and rest assured each and everyone has ended up the same way SKINT.
Your betting against owners, jockeys, trainers, farriers and you dont know what they will do you might get it right some of the time and show a profit for a few months/ years but it ends up with tears and snot

true,its all about odds.

correct deadbrian thats what ive been saying and the odds are against you at all times, over the past few weeks ive seen several horse drifting like nothing on earth and everyone one of the has failed to be even placed, i cannt remember the name of it but it drifted from a solid 2/1 on here and with all the bookmakers to 8/1 in less that 10 minutes .. the way it run it was as if it was a beaten horse before the off. somebody knew and filled there boots with some of the traders money.
Take today the way several horses ran one in particular it was held up and won, today it tried to make all it finished 6th of 7, we can go into discussions of what price should it have been front running its a 25/1 shot being held up its a solid 5/2 shot.

Whats your prob with drifters ? Could understand you complaining about drifters winning but you are saying the game is bad because the market got it right .....sorry i don't get it do you think the info chit chat work watchers paddock watchers form students ect ect ect should not move a price ? Should markets not move ?

if i had carried on today i would have lost.

but it ends up with tears and snot   

The market got it right because of one thing ,it was manipulated into it.

trainer p nicolls,backing in races £25,000+ races from october,+10.backing below that figure =-8

nice stats deadbrain but at what prices do you set? are you betting to win a set amount? or do have a certain amount on each horse no matter what price?
What has been mr nicolls track record before this over the years?
Im sure a few users would or have picked holes in what you have quoted.

prices are isp i back bsp less com,early days yet as chelt, coming up. profit could be eroded as he has quite a few entered level stake.

Hats off to you dead brain your one of the few that has actually tried to put a case across. Even in your answer you doubt some of it, "profits could be eroded...........".

Theres another reason today why you cannt win .......... CALEDONIA

Trading is totally different from traditional backing/laying.  Its possible to make money without knowing a thing about horse racing or watching a single race.

The only way to learn is to do it. So small stakes to start and only increase in line with profits.

back/lay on your own opinion , when you start listening to others or looking at market moves, listening to pundits etc, you are not using your judgement to back/lay a selection on your own knowledge , but on others opinions .

Baron there were 3 races yesterday that i looked at the two front runners were held up and at the back of the field and the hold up runner was sent to the front and tried to make all the running ...... so how can the traders combat that?
If your talking about Trading ie arbing you can only get away with that so long before your account is closed

Baron there were 3 races yesterday that i looked at the two front runners were held up and at the back of the field and the hold up runner was sent to the front and tried to make all the running

and what was the outcome ?

I'm talking about trading before the off.

Sods law.  I've just lost two days profit on the last two races.  I really should get a proper job

Pablo  the outcome was all 3 finished nearer last than first,
baron yet again thanks for your honesty, but how can you trader if there is such big fluctuations in the market cause by live money and not by anybodies opinion .............. in other word how can you beat insider trading?

when seeing the horses out the back, or front running, would you not bet in-running by laying them ?

dumpling, you're like a kid telling an aviation expert that he'll never get that thing off the ground...go and do something else, eh.

not that i'm saying i or anyone else on this thread is an expert but the truth is in the P&L and we aint doing it for kicks

how can you beat insider trading?

You can't, you just have to minimise your losses when you get caught.  Learn when to take a loss.

Duncan have you anything constructive to say? first of all im a loser then im a kid why all the aggression? you say your one of the 1% who actually win on here and yet there has been nothing bar abuse, as for your 2nd post at 1427 for you to win somebody has to lose and its only a matter of time before the tables turn and its you or some other user that loses.
Baron minimise your loses that in many cases is easier said than done.
pablo i have never laid a horse when i was on my game i only bet them,

in running a joke today.

Baron minimise your loses that in many cases is easier said than done.

knowing when to take a losses is more an art than a science, you just get a feel for which way the market's going.

defo more than 1% win on here...not aggression, just tiresome when you get people that dont know what they are talking about continually saying that black is white

good luck to you dumpling

duncan tiresome? even if its a figure of 3% that win on here which is highly unlikely, that still creates the fact that 97% break even or loss, good luck to you if you make it pay but can i ask you a question when you dont make it pay and lose everything give me a wee email or message i promise i wont tell you "i told you so" .
Baron so your your using an art rather than form figures etc .... i bet you a few of the users that claim that they are winning are having a wee chuckle at that.
Pablo youve got it right you can study all you like but it comes down to plain old fashioned luck and i wish everybody on here GOOD LUCK too.

no offence but you are wrong dumpling  .

luck doesn't have much to do with it .

knowledge and judgement is most of what you need to do well on here , whether that is trading, laying/backing pre-race , or betting in running  .

have a read of anoraks first reply on this thread http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/30611039/the-... and you will see why some will make it pay when they put in hard work like that, compared to someone who just backs favs, or is backing a horse simply because they like the trainer/jockey etc .

I myself like backing horses with pretty faces

that's no problem, dumpling...will direct message you when it happens (not had losing year since the 80s though, so dont hold your breath)

Duncan even the most hardened of professionals have had a losing run that have cost them there profit for the year. so im going take your statement with a wee hint of salt.

pablo i used to back horses that werent as well hung as me ....... hahahahahahahahahaha

i'd take his statement as correct and pull a couple of dumplings out of your heid

just because you can't do it and have no concept of how he does, doesn't mean it can't be done

elsie please read before tapping your fingers i dont bet horses .............. i love horse racing and have seen what has happened to it over the years, my last bet was lord samposin (where the jockey got a 30/40 day ban for pulling it to allow tony dobbin his last ever winner)so that tells you how many years ive been out of the game.

doesn't matter what sport, it can be done and is

that was7 year ago dump

that was7 year ago dump

Answer to your original question, xaar is that I would agree with most comments in this thread....it definitely can be done. However, it does take a lot of practice. I have been doing it for just over a year, started with £2 stakes using Bet Trader and am now up to £27 stakes....lost money for the first 6 months but have trebled my bank in the last 3 months and usually make about 20% per month.
You don't need info or form or anything similar, you just need practice and the ability to accept your losses and get out before running.
Good luck

A lot of the people saying that it can't be done are the ones who are doing it.

price wise .high12/ 03 £1279~50 p
           .low 7/11   -£157

yes 7 years ago freddie.
elsie i dont believe that as the horse racing  market can be manipulated that much by so few people in very little time.

Heres one for you guys to mull over i had the same conversation many months ago on here about the same topic, the user had exactly the same arguments as you guys have, to my amazement yesterday i read on another topic he laid one of godophin horse at 110 , anybody with any common sense realises now he has to lay 109 winners to break even,

dont worry about rodia...he's well ahead

LOL duncan ........... well ahead of what?

you and me, for starters

if you believe that i still believe in santa claus and the tooth fairy

whatever, pal

I take it you know him personally? either that related to him? either way good luck to you as if he keeps on laying 109/1 shots we both know how its going to end up.

he's been on here for donkey's years and he lays 1000 and cleans up, in part cos he's either at the track or has raw feed pics (so is watching the action ahead of the vast majority)...he can take the odd hiccup on the chin nae bother

"he can take the odd hiccup on the chin nae bother" thats ok when hes laying short priced ones but laying 109/1 , How many other ones at that price or bigger has he laid during his time on here?
Please some of you guys on here that win tell him or show him the error of his ways as this is brilliant , im in the company of several racehorse owners at present and have just shown them the whole topic , i dont know whether a few of them are having a heart attacks as they are laughing that much.

dumpling , laying or backing when the odds are in your favour is what will make you profit long term .

roida has layed 1000/1 winners and backed 1.01 losers , but it's not about 1 bet , or todays profit and loss , it's about the month or the years profit that matters .

he pays 40% PC for a reason

pablo there are 7000 races per year and he lays 8 X 1000/1 winners where is his profit? unless hes gambling by doubling up? as for 40% PC as explained on another topic hes that intelligent theres ways and means by which you dont pay any commission.

dumpling , just because you press to lay at 1000 , doesn't mean all of your bet is matched at 1000 . you will be cleaning up all odds in between .

regardless of how anyone plays, isn't it whether you make a profit or not that matters ?

as for 40% PC as explained on another topic hes that intelligent theres ways and means by which you dont pay any commission

what are the odds in your opinion that you won't or can't explain how .

dumplingheid - your lack of knowledge about exchange backing/laying is very noticeable

either that or you're fishing

thanks didnt expect to see this many comments,some sound advise thanks

dumpling,Sorry to say this,but you are absolutely clueless

Pablo i have done it for year without paying commission on the football, swift as for fishing definently not , and there is no way in the world im going to divugle on how to do it as that loop hole closes for me and costs me dearly.
Back to the subject if he lays at 1000 and it lays all the way up cleaning up all the odds, if he averages 100/1 at laying thats still 99 more races he has to win before he breaks even.
Because of what was said earlier fast pictures or at the track he can only cover a certain amount of races per day/week if he manages 50 races thats 2 weeks solid he has to win before he breaks even.

TRD please elaborate so as we can discuss without getting agressive.

if he averages 100/1 at laying thats still 99 more races he has to win before he breaks even.

Think you need to re-do your maths.

darlo lets get pedantic now he has to 100 races he has to win.
XXXXXX

wind-up merchant, this fella...and for that reason, i'm out

Nov 13, 2015 -- 11:54AM, dumplingheid wrote:

darlo lets get pedantic now he has to 100 races he has to win.XXXXXX

Still need to re-do your maths. There's no pedantry from me.

How many runners are there in the races you're watching ...

duncan thats one out that can not put up a valid argument.

100 races plus commission etc
=107 races

Darlo how many races do they go short and they get turned over? it was abloodbath the other day at ayr for the ir players and it will take many many weeks days for them to recover

Trading horse racing markets is pure guesswork these days, too much market manipulation by the big players.

you might have a slightly better chance if you're at the track and can actually see the the creatures in the paddock/ going down to the start - but even then if the market doesnt agree with you then what do you do?

ohh dear , I think I have been caught in the net

well played dumpling

pablo, sometimes you just have to hold up your hands and say 'too good'!

true Duncan , I should have known better though with his join date

I have a target of 1.5% per day and have been doing that since March. I have just stopped trading for today, having reached my target. I do have losing days but have only had one losing week in 6 months and that was minimal. Unfortunately I can't trade every day due to other commitments but I wish I could. I had a lesson with Badger at the beginning of the year who helped me tremendously and even though I don't quite do it his way, I am still in profit almost every day

Appformat, the form and ability of the horses has absolutely nothing to do with anything. I never even look at the horses or which one wins

Fook me Badger still around

He's very vocal on Twitter.

Don't use twitter much Darlo, might have a peep at what the loon is up to.

All I know is that when he gave me the lesson we did a 'screen share' on Skype and when we had finished he went into his P/L account for the session and had made the best part of £200 even though the main theme of the lesson had been teaching me rather than making a profit

p nichols ,23.1 bsp.

well done dead brain i take m hat off to you

th. tomorrow to come.

old guard 18.0 bsp.