How did McManus make his fortune?

He certainly never made his considerable fortune from Bookmaking.

Agree but it started there,laying terry and co,then later into big business.I thought i simplified it ok

An Associate of Dermot Desmond and Joe Lewis.
If only the Devil could cast his net!

What can we all say..

Apart from I wish I was involved with those Irish people ten years ago..

And kept the proceeds...

yes ,Sandy Lane Hotel,sounds nice

Duncan was a deckchair attendant,got bored,got family and started buying and selling(selling at the right time),a golden period in history the 60s'70s'80s, most things these prudent and lucky people achieved almost impossible in the next 100 years for those without capital

I remember his fierce rivalry with Catweazel in the early 70's

Yeh and now we got civil partnerships in your revolution bandido

Was originally a wrestler in the 70s on Dicky Davies World of Sport. The wrestling was presented by Kent Walton and preceded the ITV 7. McManus was a dirty wrestler with dodgy cabbage ears.
My grandmother hated him.

and,the JP was Jackie Pallow.

For the record , as there is a lot of idiotic comment on this thread , here is what I know ( and I never post anything but truth ) .

When he was young he hung about bookies offices in Limerick , he was a punter with little or no resources relatively speaking .  Somewhere along the line he realised ( and maybe others did too ) that he was good at punting , and he got a bookies licence ( on course ).  I saw him down the line at the Curragh among other courses , a friend of mine was the top bookie in Ireland at the time , and he knew a bit about JP , mainly through blow back bets etc . I had bets with him mainly at Listowel and Tralee which were approaching "local " meetings for him at that time .  Was always a top bookie to deal with , good prices , no knock backs , did not resent winners , always paid out with a smile .

Got a good run obviously , plenty of money about the Irish tracks in those halcyon days , great bookies , great punters . Turned his attention to money trading then , I suspect he had good people working for him ( as he does now , he is good at picking winners among people as well as horses ) , and eventually shifted his operation to Switzerland ( entirely logical , the Swiss know about money ) .  Grew to a  big operation presumably , relatively easy money to be made trading if you have the knowledge ( sometimes getting it from good sources ) , and the bigger you are the more clout and advantage you have . Knew one person who worked for him a few years ago , this person had been chairman and director of a lot of high profile financial companies in Ireland , south and north .

At that level of achievement and status and wealth it was logical he would team up with other Irish entrepeneurs  , business men , horsey men etc . The rest is history as they say .

He is a nice man , few if any have anything bad to say about him ( except the usual suspect begrudgers) .  He is a family man , happily married , spends a lot of money in Ireland and England via his horse racing operation ( which must cost him money ) . Spreads his money around , many a helping hand , charity contributions ( not all public) a-plenty , someone I know told me last week about some child who is the beneficiary of a JP scholarship for schooling or something , 2 per county in Ireland apparently , thats 64 .

Folk hero in Ireland , why wouldn't he be ? His involvement in the J M and O'B site etc was relatively small by the sound of posts  , and half a million would probably not pay his training fees for a month given the number of horses and trainers he represents a lifeline to.

Good lad .

Jackie Pallo (no W!)- My Grandma's favourite - Gold boots and striped trunks.

Kelly,I was unaware that Joe Lewis was an Irishman!

Dont know Joe Lewis , racingstar .  Hard to remain within the small confines of Ireland  , in world terms it's minute . But we are good at horses !

Kelly,
Joe Lewis has as much money as the Bank of England and is of the jewish religion.

Kelly you do preach too much...

Probably is a nice man and is probably not involved with the blatant corruption that went on in Eire...

Joe Lewis;ENIC ;investment vehicle behind Spurs.investor of some repute in currency markets.him and George soros taken a few big hits recently.all relative though.

On the morning off istabraqs last run in the champion hurdle , they new somwthing was wrong with the horse , and new they were gonna pull the horse up ,what went on betting wise god knows all i know is they new it was never gonna run again before the race , that gents is a fact ,

Is he your brother mart?

would not suprise me big mart , he never made his money honest , im sure if these do gooders have a look alon the line , they'll see he made his money on the back of peoples misfortunes, a lot of these do gooders you would buy them with an ice cream, look at recent events , look at these gambles jjo neill land for him with horses with duck eggs to their name and then win on steel and for all the sad apologists on here that dont realise this go and get a fuking life or else go down to towc and jp will buy you off with a drink

mick9694 - HE IS BACK!!   Where's the response to the LIST, Mick. We thought you'd given up in the face of overwhelming evidence.   

What a sad little life you must lead, where nothing can be found about anyone or anything, apart from bile and misinformation.

you talk such nonsense blackbarn, your some apologist son

Typical non-response Mick as usual. 

1.  Where is your reply to the list. You know the one. the list of trainers who's odds on shots "always get beat"

2. Just so we are all clear.  J P McManus - your view is that "he never made his money honest" and "he made his money on the back of peoples misfortunes". Did I misquote you?

its no no nonsense blackbarn , your the fool that believes everything is straight, you looking for lists go and **** yourself and cop on

and another thing blackbarn im regularly on here , dont know bout your phrase he is back, you choose to see what you want

The usual descent to abuse, Mick. Nothing changes.

Re "He is back". This is based on your uncanny habit of disappearing when you're views are challenged. The odds-on losing trainers list is an example - remember your Haggas posts for instance, when given the facts, your input dried up.

Re being "regularly on here", great! then stay on and confirm that I have correctly understood and correctly stated your view on McManus' finances. Did you say these things or will silence reign, yet again?

I never knew McManus posted on the forum till Kelly popped up.

McManus -can't stand the creep.

Some of the posts say more about the poster than about JP .

Googled JP . Reckon everything I posted checks out with Wiko etc . Or more specifically with his Limerick Leader interview .

Interesting part of that is the reference to gambling , addictive or whatever . JP I think is addicted to winning .  But he selects the battlefield , lots dont , they get sucked into areas where the odds are against them .

Reference the scholarship thing , its 125 scholarships a year  , for high flying students .  More power to his elbow .

dont know how anyone can go from zero to billionaire by just currency trading. did he ever own a business?

bdj , he didn't go from zero ( except zero in billionaire terms ) . History has a lot of people making fortunes from relatively humble beginnings .  Most of them had a system , or evolved a system or a business .

JP is brilliant with figures , a pre requisite for an on course bookie ( pre computers etc ) , and initially he made his start through bookmaking . HE was the business .

Later on the currency trading could be categorised as a logical extension , most stock market and financial transactions are not dissimilar to betting .  Its your judgement against someone else  , few if any "middlemen" to dilute profit .

magnier made his money from bloodstock
desmond made his money from a number of business's, we can all name
tabor made his money from running a chain of betting offices and bloodstock
derrick smith was a big shot with ladbrokes
JP Mac drove a JCB, was a rails bookie and a currency trader

i can understand how the first 4 became rich............JP, no idea......what did he do..........make 10 mill from being a bookie........maybe............then convert 10m into 2billion by buying and selling currencies...........MY POINT IS, HIS ACCUMULATION OF WEALTH IS A BIG SECRET...........MAYBE HE WILL WRITE A BOOK SOME DAY AND TELL US all............he seems a nice guy and im not haVing a pop.......i congradulat all those who are rich...........but its all a big mystery to me.

BDJ

Here is wiki about FX trading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market#After_1973

It is along complicated article but here are two points that may help- you understand JPM;s participation

The foreign exchange market is the most liquid financial market in the world. Traders include large banks, central banks, institutional investors, currency speculators, corporations, governments, other financial institutions, and retail investors. The average daily turnover in the global foreign exchange and related markets is continuously growing. According to the 2010 Triennial Central Bank Survey, coordinated by the Bank for International Settlements, average daily turnover was US$3.98 trillion in April 2010 (vs $1.7 trillion in 1998).[4] Of this $3.98 trillion, $1.5 trillion was spot transactions and $2.5 trillion was traded in outright forwards, swaps and other derivatives.

Speculation[edit]

Controversy about currency speculators and their effect on currency devaluations and national economies recurs regularly. Nevertheless, economists including Milton Friedman have argued that speculators ultimately are a stabilizing influence on the market and perform the important function of providing a market for hedgers and transferring risk from those people who don't wish to bear it, to those who do.[78] Other economists such as Joseph Stiglitz consider this argument to be based more on politics and a free market philosophy than on economics.[79]
Large hedge funds and other well capitalized "position traders" are the main professional speculators. According to some economists, individual traders could act as "noise traders" and have a more destabilizing role than larger and better informed actors.[80] Also to be considered is the rise in foreign exchange autotrading; algorithmic, or automated, trading has increased from 2% in 2004 up to 45% in 2010.[81]
Currency speculation is considered a highly suspect activity in many countries.[where?] While investment in traditional financial instruments like bonds or stocks often is considered to contribute positively to economic growth by providing capital, currency speculation does not; according to this view, it is simply gambling that often interferes with economic policy. For example, in 1992, currency speculation forced the Central Bank of Sweden to raise interest rates for a few days to 500% per annum, and later to devalue the krona.[82] Former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad is one well known proponent of this view. He blamed the devaluation of the Malaysian ringgit in 1997 on George Soros and other speculators.
Gregory J. Millman reports on an opposing view, comparing speculators to "vigilantes" who simply help "enforce" international agreements and anticipate the effects of basic economic "laws" in order to profit.[83]
In this view, countries may develop unsustainable financial bubbles or otherwise mishandle their national economies, and foreign exchange speculators made the inevitable collapse happen sooner. A relatively quick collapse might even be preferable to continued economic mishandling, followed by an eventual, larger, collapse. Mahathir Mohamad and other critics of speculation are viewed as trying to deflect the blame from themselves for having caused the unsustainable economic conditions.

Here is where I believe he may have kick started


Black Wednesday
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the air travel crisis, see Black Wednesday (air travel). For the healthcare term, see Killing season.
In politics and economics, Black Wednesday refers to 16 September 1992 when the British Conservative government was forced to withdraw the pound sterling from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) after they were unable to keep it above its agreed lower limit. George Soros, the most high profile of the currency market investors, made over 1 billion GBP[1] profit by short selling sterling.
In 1997 the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion,[citation needed] with other sources giving estimates as high as £27 billion. In 2005 documents released under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that the actual cost may only have been £3.3 billion.[2]

Here is a clip from the late 1980S

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1J0WrEO1B0

The other key to JP's wealth may be that he does not pay tax in Ireland; probably, like most of the ultra-rich, JP does not pay income tax anywhere else either.

Most rich people do not take increases in their wealth as income. It either stays in their (network of) companies, or if it is taken out, will be taken as capital gains which generally are taxed at far lower levels.

Did a bit of work on the trinity college building bottom of grafting street.5 floors underground library and however many floors above ;funded by JP McManus.would this count as a tax break or thoughtful and worthwhile philanthropy?

*grafton

yupp the currency devaluation debacle made mcmanuus but he had put himself into the position to make a fortune at that stage of his carreeer..................

how he got from zero to multi millionaire was pulling horses and laying them on the track........he had a number of irish racing persona paid...............

look who he had training his horses oringinally.......frank berry............charlie swan............c roche...........jonjo...................am surprised he doesnt realy have horses with mullins because old paady muulins was up to his eyeballs with him

@chavman -- JP's philanthropy is welcome. Some would argue that if he'd paid his fair share of tax, the Irish government could spend the same money on democratically chosen projects, and others would say the Irish government would piss it up a wall.

the jp macnamarra race day at limerick reported yesterday raised 800 000 k fantastic.............

but tell u true story about jp

1987 a mate of mine had horse in training with p mullins...............horse hacked up at balinrobe two weeks before galway the lads were told its a certainty for galway.............

willie mullins was riding my .....the horse was 4/5 my mate god rest his soul was going to lump on mcmanus pushed him out to 10/11.......this is when u had real money in the ring........the horse finished up at 6/4

my mate had a couple of grand on and was going ****g mad........he told me he was going to pull mullins off the horse.........paddy mullins pulled him aside and told him wed get it back................next run was at roscommon and he won by 25 lenghts at 11/4...........now the horse was a front unner and at galway he was dropped out the back and ran like a drain

Nice to see JP takes an interest in our little forum.
Hello Kelly         

changing the subject boys...............

geraughtys blog friday night said he he was riding one for harringhton(michael buckley horse) but would appreciate some rain.............its pissed rain here..............and c roche/mcmanus on the 2nd..............and cause im a greedy fcuk mullins briary hall in the 3rd .....................GD LICK

@bustino -- take your point about JP's trainers. "A who's who of 1980s Irish job jockeys," as someone here once said.

Though I'm not really sure what is the moral of your story about your mate: seems to come down to both JP and your mate winning from inside information.

It is noteworthy how many of the old time "professional punters" were bookmakers, though, including JP.

I wish !  Only ever bet with him , salmon . You just have to hand it to him , he has life sussed .

But he spreads his money about nowadays , and is careful enough to minimise tax . In law it is your duty to pay the appropriate amount of tax . That applies across boundaries and borders and countries . Any wealthy person who did not do their sums in this regard would be plain stupid .  Governments etc make the rules , they ALL suit themselves .  Any individual who can run rings around them I take my hat off to .

The thing about currency trading , as others have posted after digging out some facts , is that it is mega .  Sometimes it resembles having 10 million in your account on here and finding 10 million up here at 1.01 for a race that is over . The fact that it is some government or an institution that has put up the "bet" is irrelevant to you as you press the button and take it all .

@RAMRUNA...........thers no moral to the story my mate did his dough at galway but he saw what had happened...........but on the day was told to shut the fcuk up.............afterwards he loathed mcmanus because he felt he let alot of people down even thought he was allowed get his his dough back plus+++

also at big price today geraughty riding one for austin strikes me as small stable getting their xmas money

Ow did er Majesty get her money,probably from the gift shops at Sandringham/Balmoral,get real bhoys how many geezers from before/after Nick Leeson lost zillions of £so,no point in bothering about JP theres loads of them out there,he at least spreads it about.

ps a trader in USA wanted to leave Deutshe Banke didn,t like the collar tie/9 till 5 regime and working away from calipornia so they told him thats ok just work from home here,s $300 to work with and you wonder about JP.

my tent or yours, jezski,high class,small interest in golden ticket today?

Sir Alex, do you regret your involvement in the anglo-irish bloodstock industry

McManus and Magnier had more financial clout is what that came down to. The rights and wrong were immaterial.

I know Salmon, but it wouldn't have been a bad question to ask,

I'm no fan of Ferguson but he was out of his depth with those types ( I'm obviously being euphemistic )

Put more people away than Hanging Judge Jeffries.
But,he does a lot for charity.
ROFFL

If you believe that the nice old chap pictured at Plumpton Station in the Racing Post in an Oxfam coat with a carrier bag is a high-tech Currency Trader then that is fine by me.

Tbf I doubt whether McManus has hung anybody ( personally ).

http://best-forex-traders.com/about-j-p.html


reckon big mac should trade his gold for paper and put sundance in the shade with a few ace trades 

i thought currency trading was a zero sum game...........is he that clever?

I have always thought that Magnier was the real brain behind the whole thing and that he chose some friends/like minds to help to build the empire. McManus is not part of Coolmore though is he? However he got to where he is, jump racing will miss him when he is gone.

magniers success is very simple............they gambled on northern dancer and it worked...........they got saddlers wells...........bought danehill and then got galileo.....now fastnet rock is making serious money down under....giants causeway and montjeu were also big $$$$$$$$$.
magnier had some spectacular failures as well, but who doesnt..........pentre celebre, fug pegusas, haradasun........all bought for big $$$$ but duds at stud.

but can you see how i can analyse magniers business..............i cant do this with JP..........did he make 200 million on the mexican peso and 200m on sterling...........i have no idea.

In the mid 90s Eire were brought into line with the rest of Europe with taxation on bloodstock operations which at the time and many years before were zero tax.A friend is convinced this crowd were cleaning money through these operations.Any buisness making a profit could put it through bloodstock and it comes out tax free minus a commission.Now that could add up to £100mills.Incidentally a former Taisoceah bought a stud in the 80s.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/31327/ireland-set-to-end-tax...

dancing denman........stud fees for stallions are recorded.........coolmores turnover in their profit and loss account would have to match these recordings.......it would be difficult to launder money in this way. there is no way that the biggest stud operation in the world would launder money in their operations.
JP was at the presentation for magicians win at santa anita...........it has never been mentioned in the media but i wonder did JP buy a stake in the coolmore operations some time ago..........that would explain his wealth and ties with magnier, but that surely would have come out in the busness media at some stage.

BDJ not saying it still goes on,but in the early 80s when a man admits to a gambling problem with very little liquid, within a decade he's in the £100mill bracket people will speculate where it came from.In the early 80s accounting and the tax systemn were lax in this country so i would imagine the same in Eire.

bdj ,  im sure i read somewhere a few years back that he was a shareholder in coolmore

thought it all started big time for jp with the mexican peso and he has gone on from there and didnt michael tabor start with owning a chain of betting offices and he also seems to have gone on to better things financial wise,looks like they both had some good advice from somebody

brain dead jockeys     15 Dec 13 02:49 
dont know how anyone can go from zero to billionaire by just currency trading. did he ever own a business?

Currency trading is the easiest way to make a legal million ......... unfortunately, it's also the easiest way to lose one if you don't know what you're doing. JP and his team obviously do.

Business people being on good terms with politicians seems to make becoming rich a whole lot easier in many countries.

Salmon Spay,
Like BF Premium Charges,you will seldom find a word of criticism against either in the Press or on Tv.
Amazing,isn't it?

I heard it was when he knocked out Giant Haystacks on ITV in 1974 and the fix was on.....

his sister  michelle won x factor  a few years back ! maybe she subbed him a few quid !

Surely the rise of Mr Smith from on course rep to the top table is probably a more interesting story?

shure doesn't JP own 25% of Tiger Wood's income stream for starters?

Derek must know of many "dark secrets",ribero,imo.

looks like they both had some good advice from somebody

Joe Lewis.

Oi,vey,ramruma.

Oz he may do but what people are asking is how did a ditch digger get himself in a position to be associated with the richest sportsman in the world.It's simple Tigers doe came from his God given talent,where did Mcmanus's come from cos people don't buy a 'inside touch' at the festival or two,& i'm quite sure if anyone witdrew a £1billion from the Mexican Peso the whole of the South American economy would collapse.Answers please.

All started with the Peso. Dancing Demon.  Cronyism at its best.. 

I can only imagine you are being facetious about the amount of money you mention as causing the entire S American economy to collapse.

im with dancing denman's last post on this on this............a rails bookie becomes a billionire by going from bookie to currency trader...........thats some run of laying losers and currency trading..............did he ever place a losing bet?

Apparently not,braindead.
Certainly not his early Lays by all accounts.

If you were heavily geared on a currency bet that you knew the outcome to...that gets you to serious money.

I defy anyone on here to give me 5 losers on here on the bounce at 2.25 or shorter.You'd need a big pair to be putting the lot on everytime. if your going to make £mills thats what you've got to do.Can't see it

" a currency bet that you knew the outcome to".............strange statement

He nowadays says he does not gamble anymore. To me that means he only bets when he know the result!

* knows

BDJ that's the point no fecker knows which way the markets going.The vast majority of these 'traders' are playing the game with other peoples money so make their fund 10% on a good year of which they'll get a small commission.It don't add up to 250 horses in training & abillion in the bank!!!!

That would be on many of his runners,imo (and it would not be the "triers").

He must have more than 250. Half the runners in some Irish races are his. If you add on the ones that are out of action my guess is it's nearer 400 in both countries. Coolmore may well make a profit by getting huge amounts for their stallions. McManus as an individual owner obviously doesn't.

lets look at what we know

rails bookie
makes big bobs on manu shares purchase with magnier
currency trader
owns hundreds of NH horses which is loss making activity

thats about it..........everything else is speculation

Quite how anybody unconnected could possibly back one of his beggars belief.
He is a "Wrong Un",imo.

This is my last post on the subject.But this is the shrewdie who had £500k on the ageing Baracouda not to many years ago.

That was careless DancingDenman.

Trades on here I heard

brain dead jockeys     16 Dec 13 22:07 
" a currency bet that you knew the outcome to".............strange statement

Here is Wiki on the Mexicn Peso crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_economic_crisis_in_Mexico

Here is part of it

This caused an even bigger decline in the dollar reserves. However, nothing was done during the last five months of Salinas' administration. Some critics affirm this maintained Salinas' popularity, as he was seeking international support to become director general of the World Trade Organization. Zedillo took office on December 1, 1994.
A few days after a private meeting with major Mexican entrepreneurs, in which his administration asked them for their opinion of a planned devaluation; Zedillo announced his government would let the fixed rate band increase to 15 percent (up to four pesos per US dollar), by stopping the previous administration's measures to keep it at the previous fixed level. The government, being unable even to hold this line, decided to let it float.
The peso crashed under a floating regime from four pesos to the dollar to 7.2 to the dollar in the space of a week. The United States intervened rapidly, first by buying pesos in the open market, and then by granting assistance in the form of $50 billion in loan guarantees. The dollar stabilized at the rate of six pesos per dollar. By 1996, the economy was growing (peaked at 7% growth in 1999). In 1997, Mexico repaid, ahead of schedule, all US Treasury loans.

" A few days after a private meeting with Mexican entrepreneurs"  THEY KNEW

To try and help you understand what can be achieved a simple sample

Sell 400,000,000 Peso @ $1 = 4 Peso realises $100,000,000

After devaluation Buy 400,000,000 Peso @ $1 = 6 Peso cost $66.666.666

I think perhaps what may be confusing you is term applied to JPM as "currency trader"

It is more accurate to describe him as " currency speculator " i.e. Punter

This description tarries with his persona with regards to horses

He just moved on to bigger markets

The currency crises rolled on through the 1990s with speculators moving from one target to the next one.

Should anyone be interested as to the next crisis to happen here is a long article ( it contains a lot of bull and is trying to sell the magazine ) which is very frightening.

http://moneyweek.com/endofbritain/

It is worth noting this graph of 10 year Gilt ( Main UK Government borrowing instrument ) yields


http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/GUKG10:IND

Reference the currency trading thing , unless I am mistaken there is a situation on Betfair currently where a market is over , pre determined and yet someone is still putting up money to lay a certain winner . Who is doing it is a mystery , but about 10 minutes ago I took the 1.08 to £100 they put up . Having been brought up to the principle that it was immoral to bet on a result you knew about I contacted B/F .  They say its OK , its between Betfair customers .

Happy to take profit , even if its only £8 this time , but who does this ?

Market is Test series Ashes 2013-2014 --Specials , Aussies minus 2.5 .

How isolated are events like this when obviously someone has different information ( incorrect ) than the rest of us ? And how moral are currency traders ( including banks , governments , treasuries etc ) ?

Scrub the last post .  Mixing it up with series score market .  England could still win it theoretically , even if unlikely on last 3 matches .

His Cheltenham Gold Cup winner was bred by his wife. That animal was by Saddlers Wells, how many N.H. breeding enthusiasts got to use Saddlers Wells? J.P. was, also, in the U.S.A. with the Coolemore outfit, very recently as they went on a spending spree. He's not a loud mouth and isn't breaking any laws, so why would he want to reveal all his business interests, to all and sundry? When Coolemore deal on the currency markets, it has been reported, as a move equal to any bank, do any of you suppose that they make their move independently, and J.P. makes his, or would it not be logical to suppose that this is a concerted effort? And the very best of luck to them, I'd be with them, too, if I could!