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elisjohn
24 Aug 13 22:58
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Date Joined: 15 Jun 03
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yes gets the odd group 1 winner, but so does joseph Obrien, , whats this over the top idolism of moore, another beckham overated by miles  by media etc

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Replies: 63
By:
ima_mazed66
When: 24 Aug 13 23:11
Assuming this is not a fishing thread and it's so hard to tell considering some of the ridiculous comments I've seen made on here, when you say Moore gets the "odd" Gr1 winner presumably with 33 under his belt despite still being in his 20s, do you mean odd as in it's an odd number?

You also say "but so does Joseph" as if that in some way qualifies your previous statement when in actual fact he has also ridden 19 Gr1 winners himself and how old is he again?
By:
silvergreaser
When: 24 Aug 13 23:15
Imo every so called top jockey is overrated and the horses they're riding underrated.
By:
elisjohn
When: 24 Aug 13 23:27
no ima, that's surprised me with 33 group 1 winners, but I feel still something missing, maybe its the stable underperforming last couple of years, just he doesn't come over as a champion imo
By:
ima_mazed66
When: 24 Aug 13 23:42
He's like them all elisjohn and is good at times and bad at other times but the higher profile ones seem to get scrutinised a lot more whatever they do, whereas the low profile ones go largely unnoticed under the radar whenever something applies to them.

Take any issue you like such as missing the kick at the start and if it's by a big name jockey it gets flagged up but unless they are on a fancied runner, whenever a low profile jockey misses it then it barely gets a mention.
By:
acey deucy
When: 24 Aug 13 23:48
One Of The Greats yfdc.
By:
portmanpark
When: 24 Aug 13 23:56
agree with acey.......best at this moment in time..........worst jockey I think is spencer
By:
nasser
When: 24 Aug 13 23:58
Cant believe I'm reading this pathetic thread. He's the best jockey riding today. Reminds me of fallon 10 years ago or so. Wins on horses that you shouldn't take a second glance at in a race.
By:
Dr Gonzo
When: 25 Aug 13 00:04
Pretty ridiculous thread tbh
By:
Wesdag
When: 25 Aug 13 01:01
Too much sherry op
By:
Ramruma
When: 25 Aug 13 07:29
Wins on horses that you shouldn't take a second glance at in a race.

No he doesn't. But what he also does not do is lose races he should have won. Ryan Moore is the most "professional" jockey around in that he rarely makes mistakes.

But it is hard to think of races won by Moore's brilliance, that the horse should have lost.

In fact, we can test this by looking at the prices of his winners. This year, Moore has won on only four horses with SPs of 10/1 or more. In 2011, it was none.
By:
dod
When: 25 Aug 13 07:43
OP i will tell you this if RM is in a close finish with any other jockey riding at the moment i know where i would want my money.
By:
pauli
When: 25 Aug 13 07:49
This is the most ridiculous thread I've ever come across on here and that's saying something.  Most overrated jockey ever?  WALOFS.
By:
mange
When: 25 Aug 13 08:38
Its so obvious that If the poster had a horse................... he wouldent want him on it
By:
bustino
When: 25 Aug 13 08:52
ryan moore is best around at moment if i had horse gd enough for belmont theres no other jockey id prefer to have on

ryan seems throughly decent lad but isnt into the media doing flying dismounts etc as todays x factor society demands

ryan is more in the lester /kinane mould and like those boys would tell this poster what a plonker he is
By:
silvergreaser
When: 25 Aug 13 08:54
Certainly a gross exaggeration on the OP's behalf, but the so called top jockeys are often praised to the hilt by punter and media alike, when in fact he might just have been on the best horse in the race anyway, if the likes of a journeyman say Graham Gibbons gives a horse a similar ride he very seldom gets any praise at all.

imo all jockeys are way overrated and the animal underneath them way underrated, yes on the odd occasion a jockey might make a difference, and anyway if a top jockey s booked for a horse its usually factored into the price a horse with similar form claims but ridden by a so called lesser jockey will often represent much better value, so you've gathered I never factor in who's riding what when I have a bet, the form book will do for me thank you.
By:
mange
When: 25 Aug 13 08:57
He scored a goal in a jocs match & I dissalowed it..................looked at me like he usted to look at Thommo Laugh
  Nice lad from a family of grafters.................
By:
mange
When: 25 Aug 13 09:00
At the end of the day owners/trainers want someone up that can come back & tell em something that in the long run turns out to be correct
By:
moondan
When: 25 Aug 13 09:10
The only comparison you could make with say Lester is he does not say too much but as a jockey certainly not in lesters league, but who was?

Overrated ?  not really, certainly not on the same scale as Frankie who was lucky enough to work for a stable that would make brer rabbit look good.
Unlike Frankie who was not the strongest in a finish, it is difficult to find fault with Ryan who rarely makes a mistake but as someone else has said few horses win because of Ryan.

Great Jockey ? yes,  but debatable as to where he stands against several Irish Jockeys and American be it south or north  but to put him up there at the same table as Lester you would have to know little about Jockeyship and very tongue in cheek.
By:
MJK
When: 25 Aug 13 09:10
I'd still have Murtagh ahead of him of the current crop riding, but Moore's a good jockey whatever way you look at it, certainly the best riding in the Uk although it's not his fault he's riding against absolute rubbish in the main every day. My only criticism of him would be that sometimes he doesn't change his tactics during a race and keeps to the plan', even though it can cost him in the end.
By:
bustino
When: 25 Aug 13 09:58
lol didnt say ryan was as talented as lester but said like lester he lets his riding do the talking and isnt into the monkey **** modern media demands of modern sportspeople

in reality spencer is probable a MORE talented jockey than moore but in reality moore makes less **** ups than spencer......same as carberry is more talented than mc coy but the records will say who the more sucessfull is
By:
oufies pal
When: 25 Aug 13 10:18
four words say it all for me.Mount Athos/Melbourne Cup.
By:
DCI Barnaby
When: 25 Aug 13 10:51
At getting one to re kindle a effort I havent seen any better than moore recently, but as for judgement of pace there are no jockeys that I can make a suggestion riding in the UK now, so he is ok but not got full riding package imo, unlike some of the overseas jocks who can ride off the bridle and judge the pace of a race.
By:
Masterminded
When: 25 Aug 13 11:01
Mount Athos has done a lot since Moore not been on board. I think looking back at the last few seasons he has suffered with numerous injuries and been riding for a stable that has suffered from a lack of quality. Considering these factors he's done remarkable to stay where he is which is well on top of the current bunch of jockeys. How people can say he doesn't win on horses that shouldn't win I don't know he does it all the time. This has to be the dumbest thread I've read on here and by Betfair forum standards that takes some doing. Congrats to OP
By:
bolgersgreat
When: 25 Aug 13 11:30
I think Moore is one of the worst stable jockeys out there. He should study kinane and realise its better in the long run to win by a nose than 10 lengths. I cant understand why stoute doesnt get rid of him. The only reason i can think why AOB uses him is because he does exactly what he tells him to do in a race. He doesnt seem to be able to think on his feet, he just sits out the back when he thinks he has a chance and goes up the front when he thinks he has no chance. You rarely see him win a race you feel he shouldnt have won. Have people who claim he is great actually watched him or are they just saying it because everyone else is. I just dont see what all the hype is about.
By:
moondan
When: 25 Aug 13 12:01
I know its difficult to judge different eras but certainly Lester woulds have survived being freelance today, yes,  he started the whole thing off when he left Murless and some great stable jockeys in different countries slept less soundly as owners loyalties were ditched and trainers did as they were told and Lester was hired for the big race.
I know nobody is suggesting Ryan is in that class but my point is there are many jockeys today who sleep quite soundly even if Ryan is available.
To suggest Ryan at present has that greatness or habitually wins on horses that nobody else could win on is a leap of faith of Willougby proportions that like most of what he utters is quite ridiculous.
By:
salmon spray
When: 25 Aug 13 12:11
I agree Moore is no Piggott but people were still somewhat divided about Lester when he was Moore's age. Despite his precocity Piggott was in his 30s when he REALLY made his name as probably the best British jockey of all time.
However when you consider that other Champion jockeys in recent years include Hanagan,Spencer and even Sanders I think it's safe to say the competition to him is not great and,with the possible exception of Hughes,he is the best jockey based in the UK at the moment.
By:
moondan
When: 25 Aug 13 12:27
Salmon spray,

I think Piggott had to overcome the establishment which were slightly autistic in as much as things had to be done in the way they always were and change was a bad way to go.
I do agree with your point about jockeys of today perhaps being less talented.
I remember the likes of Ron Hutchinson almost specialising in sprints and Scobie Breasley (the headwaiter) leaving his effort until the last 50 yards but doing a far better job than Spencer and the Hanigans of the weighing room being 10 a penny.
but perhaps I am just getting old.
By:
timidpeopleruleok
When: 25 Aug 13 13:03
Reading the replies the whole debate is being treated by a few as rather esoteric in the sense that some are being dogmatic that they have the "knowledge" on this while there is no way that it is any more than an issue of opinion, it appears to me that the OP shot of at the hip like a loose cannon with an opinion, no more than that.
BUT my reason for replying is to moondan, people of my age will remember that Scobie left it late and this was the case in particular in the 1964 Derby, however, it was Harry Wragg who was known as the Head Waiter.
By:
moondan
When: 25 Aug 13 13:14
timidpeopleruleok,

I would not argue too long or hard but that surprises me that Harry had that title and not scobie.
I must be getting more senile than I thoughtGrin
By:
timidpeopleruleok
When: 25 Aug 13 13:18
moondan,
All it means unfortunately is that I have a few years on you Cry
By:
salmon spray
When: 25 Aug 13 13:47
Wragg was the original head-waiter ( before my time but he came from my home town of Sheffield originally ).I think I remember a few gravy-slurpers trying to transfer the title to Breasley,who certainly used similar tactics much of the time,but it never really stuck.
Obviously it's a matter of opinion but I doubt whether anyone would argue Havlin,say,is as good as Piggott was,just as you would have to be a bit odd to suggest Barbara Cartland was a greater novelist than Dickens.
By:
ima_mazed66
When: 25 Aug 13 14:18
oufies pal 
four words say it all for me.Mount Athos/Melbourne Cup.


Maybe you should have considered a few more than 4 words and took into account the horse had never won at 2 miles before and so was ridden held up to get the trip, that there were 24 runners in the race, that it's a turning course usually meaning having to come wide to challenge if ridden off the pace, that it is a highly competitive race, tht no UK trainer horse has ever won the race before and so on.
By:
differentdrum
When: 25 Aug 13 14:23
I am guessing that both Moore and Spencer both have a much higher win ratio from the front than behind but they both continually amuse themselves by riding a huge majority from behind. That doesn't make too much sense to me. Moore dropped several in at York and couldn't get them to settle so he eventually had ground to make up on a horse who had been over-racing - a recipe for disaster.

I am assuming that as he has ridden so few long-priced winners his profit/loss in handicaps must make pretty horrendous reading. Rides two at Goodwood today, Circus Turn and Astonishing. Interesting to see how they go but given the money elsewhere no doubt the bookmakers will be raising a glass to him if he boots the first one home.
By:
oufies pal
When: 25 Aug 13 14:44
ima mazed,the horse finished with a load of running left in him. He completely misjudged the pace and his positioning in the race .Far from his finest hour. Although I have to admit  his winning ride on the Aiden O Brien youngster(George Vancouver) at the Breeders Cup was pure class. A poor judge of pace but a really strong jock in a finish imo .
By:
tips
When: 25 Aug 13 15:23
rode them to sleep there
By:
stevieval
When: 25 Aug 13 15:27
OP seething after that!
By:
Masterminded
When: 25 Aug 13 15:27
Can't judge pace, doesn't win on horses that shouldn't win anyway, doesn't win on decent priced horses... Muppets
By:
tips
When: 25 Aug 13 15:28
he was a different between winning and losing there
By:
differentdrum
When: 25 Aug 13 15:29
I refer you to the above m'lud. Champagne corks popping throughout bookmakers offices.

De Sousa like a fish out of water on a ride that needed a little finesse - should have left Buick on.
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