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After spending the last three hours in a darkened room in quiet contemplation with the soothing backdrop of my indoor, water themed Bonsoi garden, the blissful and calming ambient sounds of a Tony Scott Japanese collaboration easing my mind to a higher state of consciousness, I am now able to give a balanced pronouncement on the Derby debacle. JIM BOLGER, NEXT TIME USE A BLOODY PACEMAKER!!
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Would that have stopped his horse pulling his head off from the start?
The horse was beaten very early, doesn't stay. Pace maker wouldn't have helped much. Go back to your Bonsai garden and chill out.
I'd of tucked it behind a couple and calmed it.
you cant say it didnt stay because it pulled so hard. if ruler of the world pulled that hard it wouldnt of stayed either
Exactly. More effort settling it and bobs your uncle it wins.
Yes the horse pulled hard but it was beaten 3f out. That horse will never win a group one over a mile and half.
They'll keep it to a mile now, lesson learnt.
They'll keep it to a mile now, lesson learnt.
would and should have never took its place in the race only the owner wanted/needed it to run in the Derby.Enough said about him.
It pulled hard because of the slow pace, great tactics by O'Brien, one of the best ways to beat a potential non stayer is to set slow pace for a horse use to going faster. Manning taken by surprise.
Frankel would have won a Derby a Leger and a fekkin BOAT race imo given the chance
In 2008 there was a decent pace, but Manning tried his best to mess up, ridden by Fallon or Moore, or even Hughes, it would have been a different story today, the reaction would have been intelligent and decisive.
Hughes rode like a man who was told not to upstage Moore or O'Brien.
And how would Fallon Morre or Hughes have done to stop it pulling for its head? Horse doesnt stay no point in blaming Kevin Manning imo!
I see the Coronation Stakes was 1.3 seconds faster than the Derby, but that was won by a fully mature horse (6yo) carrying the same weight as early season 3yos. And the race after the Derby, also over 12f, was 0.06 secs slower.
My thinking is Dawn Approach wanted to go miler pace, which is not a good idea when running up a 140 foot hill. It wasn't a very slow pace race, the others were going 12f up a very steep hill pace, on slow ground. He wasn't, and obviously hadn't been trained to as the American say "rate" (go a steady pace).
My thinking is Dawn Approach wanted to go miler pace, which is not a good idea when running up a 140 foot hill. It wasn't a very slow pace race, the others were going 12f up a very steep hill pace, on slow ground. He wasn't, and obviously hadn't been trained to as the American say "rate" (go a steady pace).
coronation stakes faster than a derby thats som fekkin filly
Listen, when the early pace slowed up Manning had a decision to make, fight the horse or send him to the front where you can dictate the pace, he made that decision too late, he fought the horse then sent him to the front. Top jockeys make split-second decisions that win races.
And do you think Joseph O Brien was going to let him dictate the pace? As soon as he did try to slow it down, Battle of Marengo kept pestering him. Horse doesn't stay simple as! No point clutching at straws!
And do you think Joseph O Brien was going to let him dictate the pace? As soon as he did try to slow it down, Battle of Marengo kept pestering him. Horse doesn't stay simple as! No point clutching at straws!
Magician was kept to a mile and the same should be done for Dawn Approach.We haven't hears the last of him.
The point is he had a chance if he went to the front as soon as he started pulling, there was no chance of winning the way Manning rode the horse. This is a rational debrief of a surprisingly run Derby. So, a rational post-race judgement is that the events of yesterday confirm Manning is a very average jockey.
anyone who backed dawn approach should take a serious look at themselves their selection methodology.
Perhaps you should have passed that gem on before the race,Dayjur.
Interesting theory that every top class miler running over 12f off a slow pace will no doubt pull his head off despite showing no signs of it to date , something new has been discovered, I'll look forward to seeing this "new approach" being adopted in future for all doubtful stayers.
Amazing how coolmore dismissed the notion of them setting a crawl and not testing DA's suspect stamina thus allowing him to win off a sprint, as pure madness, they are genius's alright
Amazing how coolmore dismissed the notion of them setting a crawl and not testing DA's suspect stamina thus allowing him to win off a sprint, as pure madness, they are genius's alright
anyway the point is the first reaction for anyone backing a loser is.."i backed the wrong horse"
Well "i backed the wrong horse" would certainly be true if you've backed a loser.
If you didn't fancy Dawn Approach to stay then you must have laid it, Dayjur.
Although the reaction of quite a few on here is usually "the jockey rode a bad race".
gene wilder in stir crazy would have had his hands full with that one yesterday
bookies must look at this forum and rub their hands. the vast majority blame just about everyone else but themselves for backing a loser. the only way to become a better horse backer is to blame yourself and try to improve. very few do that.
Copied from the Horse Antepost Epsom Derby thread
mrtopnotch
Jim Bolger "On his breeding you would expect that he would not get it (the Derby trip), but because he’s so relaxed and he has so much class, there is a reasonable chance that he will get it. For that reason, it probably will be decided that he’ll go there. It will more than likely be Epsom. He wouldn’t have the stamina influence New Approach had in his pedigree, but that doesn’t mean he will not stay"
In future if a trainer says a horse can relex, and switch off, and other garbage ............... AN ALARM BELL SHOULD RING LOUDLY.
mrtopnotch
Jim Bolger "On his breeding you would expect that he would not get it (the Derby trip), but because he’s so relaxed and he has so much class, there is a reasonable chance that he will get it. For that reason, it probably will be decided that he’ll go there. It will more than likely be Epsom. He wouldn’t have the stamina influence New Approach had in his pedigree, but that doesn’t mean he will not stay"
In future if a trainer says a horse can relex, and switch off, and other garbage ............... AN ALARM BELL SHOULD RING LOUDLY.
W
Dayjur, why search for something else when you are convinced a short priced fav cannot win?
Dayjur, why search for something else when you are convinced a short priced fav cannot win?
the thing that puzzles me is that if they thought it wouldn't stay why didn't they try it over that distance before the Derby?
they have gallops at home, or they could have ran a trial at a nearby course so it shouldn't be too much to ask
they have gallops at home, or they could have ran a trial at a nearby course so it shouldn't be too much to ask
^because connections have nothing to gain. They would have to go 12f at race pace the whole way. if they find the horse doesn't stay, its still had a hard "race", and if they find it does, gaining nothing in prize money and prestige (and stud value) and just giving the horse a hard "race" for nothing but peace of mind. and this still cant take things like course characteristics into account.
I'm blaming moneytree
As soon as I saw thread my bet was f*****
As soon as I saw thread my bet was f*****
if they found it doesnt stay they could not run though?
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