A Day In The Life Of Professional Gambler Harry Finlay

Tober, not in doubt as to him being an absolute gent, always been a likeable bloke, think people would need to look at themselves if they find fault in Harry, but certainly in his early days and those captured in the film, he was as I described above.

Going to check this out later. Thanks for posting.

Rather than looking at the betting style (not for me) i could not help but strangely admire his courage. Those of you that do and have  punted for a living, will understand the horrible constant  pressure and anxieties  that go with it. It is  mentally draining, what ever your chosen method the swings  will come your way, and it  is  many a players downfall.  Seeing all the angles is one thing, but having the metal to still play them when your down requires courage. There is a very  fine line between genius and insanity.

Allot of racing boffins will slate him, but what  they will never understand is that  nerve, is not something you can put in a rating.

"I'll make a statement now......"(brilliant!)  I enjoyed this video,  whilst  not agreeing with his betting approach, I had to admire  the mans courage.

Thumbs up Harry.

Front, nothing to do with courage, the man is a compulsive gambler, he even says so in the film, admitting he stole from family to feed his habit, like I said above re: betting on two flies, at the end of the film he even has to have a bet to see who pays for the meal, can't help himself, everything was a betting opportunity, but he is still a thoroughly likeable bloke, a lot of the everyday moaners on here, could learn a lot from the way Harry always carried himself, even when losing.

I'd hav a heart attack an sleep disorders if I bet like him

Takes a diff kind of mindset

Nice not working thou

a good watch

tar

Your welcome

Horse races were in 1997

thanks AD good video that, perhaps though he was trying to make out he was a compulsive gambler so that bookies would be happy to take his bets.

You got to like the guy, he's come a long way since those days.
He represents the sins most of you c--nts would'nt have the courage to commit

seems to keep a lower profile these days,anyone know if he still has the involvment at Coventry....was it the dogs he was doing there?

I thought he was running the place.

not sure,i just remember he had some sort of involvment there.....hope he's doing ok tbh

You got to like the guy is bang on the botton Thats Harry
But  talking  about top gamblers   one name ...John Gough time  about 1966
any replies and i will give you guys  the low down on John

Yes, he's still the promoter there. They are trying to change the on course model by having a lower t0te retention. This is a good example for the rest of Greyhound racing and also for horse racing on course market. I think the on course tote markets would be a lot longer with a a low take out. Particularly if you got the off course market involved. Perhaps it's time for them to be brave and go for 5% deductions across the board. Racing could conceivably break away from bookmaker control with this model in the long term.

http://covdogs.com/

tyvm stow

Coventry Greyhound stadium
Please note that our retentions are: Win Pool 14.5% / Place Pool 10%. World Record Lows!

“With other tracks taking out almost 30% for themselves, Coventry is quite simply the only greyhound venue where the small punter is allowed to win.”

- Harry Findlay, Promoter.

Stow judge  your spot on
One day One day it will happen

Go on then Zipper,tell us about John Gough.
I do know the tv called him The Butterfly at that time but I think they may have mistaken him for "Mort".

Didn't John Gough end up going to Australia (?).  Remember he had a telephone tipping line once called Goughsguide, long before premium rate lines etc., he had a team of girls in an office up North (Leeds I think) answering the phones.  And he had the benefit of an hour-long TV documentary about himself to launch the service.  Last I heard about him over 20 years ago he went to Australia.

BBC report about a guy who runs a tipping service

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/derby/hi/tv_and_radio/newsid_8493000/8493724.stm

That deserved a separate thread Gandolf?

Ok guys one at a time
John Mort Green a ozz guy  wrote a book called  Come Fly with the Butterfly  he came to England    as a pro backer  he left England  a very succesful pro backer  the books would not take  the size  of the bets  he  would place (So whats new )
same today if you are a losing punter you can be on

John Gough was in front of his time  the best ive ever seen  yes he had a tipping service  in Davy Gate York 
and its was very successful.

never been able to work out how the tote could justify taking out over 25% of the various pools.Sadly with baldy fred at the helm theres more prospect of the take out rising than falling.

Just looked at the write-up and 8 min video Gandalf, agree with Motley01 deserved a seperate thread, that is about Steve-Lewis Hamilton.

"In these times of economic uncertainty, some investors have started to turn their backs on banks and put their money on horses instead.

Steve Lewis-Hamilton, from Chesterfield, runs a tips service which sees subscribers pay around £1,000 a year for his meticulously-researched advice on racing."

He has about 200 punters paying him £1,000 a year, work that out......  Big money in this tipping game.  Don't know much about SLH but seems a nice guy who knows his stuff from the video. But the only guaranteed winner is him.

John Gough  The BBC  made a 30min Documentary about him
Last Of The Big Punters   about  1960is   its still on file and worth a look

back to HF, you have got hand it to the guy for having the kahoonas to put his full bank on a 2's on shot (Ajax to beat Torino in the European cup).

Ok he might have been reckless, but he represents the older brigade who took a proper punt. Not in the same mould as all the traders and arbers of today.

His phone conversations in running remind me of myself and my brother in the late nineties and noughties.

does harry still bet on the horses or is it back to sports betting

Must of been doing something right the man, string of horses, paid big dough
for some of em too, everything came from his punting, don't see how you can knock
the bloke,a character and a dying breed, which is shame in today's plastic world

Worth watching just to see how mental the game can make you, the bloke has/had a serious problem.

Quite simply a gambler of the old school

one of lifes great characters and a top class fella to boot hope 2 see you in the FIELD OF DREAMS for the coursing in clonmel it aint the same without you teaching them short odds lads a few lessons oi oi

Is John Gough still around I have not heard his name mentioned for many

years, he was a mate of dodger McCartney who was also a good judge. SLH

is a nice bloke tries hard but I am sure following him will cost.

I liked Harry before watching the film and my opinion of him has not changed. I still like the fella! He's always come across as a real swashbuckling old school gambler, a real character and one I have a lot of time for. Hitting odds on shots hard is not my style, but you have to admit that he's made the game pay in a big way. Its very refreshing to see a guy not talking about trading off and such like. The guy has guts and deserves all the success he gets. Especially as he doesn't have the safety net of a regular pay cheque like many of todays "experts" and "pro's" seem to have today.

There is another old documentary rescued from VHS after 15 years in the loft. It follows poker legend Devilfish as he plays in tournaments trying to get his stake money for a Vegas game. (Harry Findlay and Terry Ramsden also on this channel). It's a 30 min one on YouTube. And Devilfish another gambler from the old school.

he was doing great untill he came in to contact with pumpkin head

John Gough gave up on course a few years ago like all pro punters.

Once Betfair replaced the hopelessly inaccurate tissue the on course value was gone.

Strange 12 months ago you could not write his name on here

findlay id more entertaining than the entire gravytrain put together, but doesnt have y

...the right school tie for racing tv

hed be a perfet foil for track suit dave on get on

From Harry's occasional appearances on Channel 4 Racing, the problem is not his school tie but that once he starts talking, he rarely comes up for air. When would they fit in the races?

steve lewis hamilton is a good tipster.not great but good.hes the polar opposite of harry f.he looks like an accountant and acts like one(which is good in the main).if you want to not lose money gambling and make a small bit maybe hes your man.not cheap but then again not dear.

i'd bet findlay has won slightly more than SLH and i'd also bet that HF would never revert to becoming telephone tipster either

yes he has alot to say ramruma, but its real, entertaining and unlike steve"i havent had a bet in the race"mellish, findlay would most probably be backing his views up with money

yea rider but he bets on impulse and without thought?

Based on Tiger Woods and Roger Federer as I recall

tiger st.andrews/that was a life changer bet for HF

One year as a Professional Gambler 2004-2005
www.eddymurray.com

This was my original post on the Betfair forum about my first year as a professional gambler.  This article led Inside Edge magazine to get in touch with me, and my work for both Inside Edge magazine and The Sportsman newspaper stemmed from it. 

The first week of March last year I left work to go full time, and one year on, I'd like to put this thread up as perhaps some people may find it helpful.

Being a gambler is not something I ever expected to become. The advent of the internet, and the exchanges, have changed my life (for now) dramatically. I still can't quite believe its been just twelve months, but I for one have a lot to thank Andrew Black and Ed Wray for.

The twelve months started fairly badly after nearly being killed in a car crash in Puerto Del Carmen, Lanzarote. That was a bit of a disappointment. However, on return to the UK, I had two or three very successful months, until suddenly I was hit by a double whammy. I had originally been winning on three different types of market, and suddenly overnight became a big loser on two of them. At the same time I had been guilty of expanding my own lifestyle and expectations (in a very human, but perhaps unwise way), and had also spent a third of my bank buying (music) recording studio equipment – the one thing which I'd always dreamed of having.

Losing half of my remaining bank in the space of a fortnight last June left me in deep trouble, and it looked like I was in danger of having made a massive mistake. There was one point where I had one final bet (not a huge one though) where I promised myself if it lost to stop and never bet ever again. It did end up winning. I asked Gamcare for advice, who were very helpful. When gambling messes up your sleeping, as well as your waking hours, it is a crushing realisation that you are in a mess.



There are no evening classes, A-levels, or MBAs in gambling. There are a small band of hardcore professional gamblers, nearly all of them at least partially on Betfair, who are literally some of the sharpest minds there are. Any amounts on any market above £100 are likely to be bets placed up there by one of them. They are equally as talented at gambling as a top barrister or doctor would be at their trade. Nobody walks into a courtroom and decides to be a top lawyer for the day, nor operate in theatre at the local hospital. The difference with betting is that everyone can (and most do) have a bet. What can be much simpler than having £10 on Manchester United to win a football match?

Last June (only three months after leaving work), I was in fairly heavy trouble. I had a certain level of my bank which I had set as a level I would try to never go below. When it reached that level, it looked like taking the gamble on becoming a gambler was one I was on the brink of losing.

At that point, the advice I received from another gambler changed everything. I was in contact with a number of people, mainly originally through Betfair's forum, but one of them I hold my hat off to, and have an enormous gratitude to, and respect for (you know who you are guv'nor). I managed to cross over and adapt my skills across a wide range of markets/sports, so that I had degrees of success in new areas. A key part of remaining a pro is the ability to adapt to a constantly changing market. You literally have to run to stand still to be successful in as fiercely competitive an environment as Betfair.


Winning money through betting is paradoxically something I feel very uncomfortable with morally. Are there people on the other side of these bets who are risking more than they can afford to lose? All the money originally deposited into Betfair has at some stage been earned in an office, a factory, a checkout, forecourt or salon. Much of it has real blood sweat and tears behind it. It makes me incredibly sad to read the figures from the big 3 that they have around 200,000 customers a year losing an average of £3,000 a year into FOBT's, as reported on a number of threads on the General Betting forum. One of my ex-girlfriends had only come to England with her mother many years ago, after her father's gambling addiction took their family to financial and emotional ruin, and her parents separated. There are real human beings out there who become just further statistics to fall by the wayside in the current pro-gambling British culture.

There's always the hope that if you do win, it's off a rich city trader, who is punting silly money for fun. Betfair has a very small number of seriously big winners (of which I am not one), but very few if any big losers. It has a vast legion of small losers. A football match can be more fun with a bet having been placed on it. The people who gamble for entertainment (whether they win or lose), as an enjoyable hobby to complement an already balanced life are perhaps the real winners. Given to this group of its customers, it is the better value and accessibility to a product they enjoy, that is perhaps Betfair's greatest success.

For every 100 winners in a calendar year, many of them will fall by the wayside the following year. One of the most famous posts on this forum has been 'The Story of Ster', who went from being a big winner to someone whose methods became horribly outmoded, and he found himself deceiving his family about his gambling problems. According to his last post he found happiness and support from his loved ones. For every passage of time, past present and future, there will be a number who are crushed through indiscipline/addiction/chasing/recklessness and/or greed.

A year full time feels like a lifetime. Gambling is neither a hobby nor a job, it is a lifestyle. One thread on here has had a user called TETO setting a target of £50 a day, whilst another has a user called 'Doubled' seeking to make £25,000 a year. Everyone starts gambling with £1's and £2's, and if they are good, that progresses to fivers, tenners, fifties, and then hundreds. There are people who bet tens of thousands of pounds per football match, horse or rugby team on Betfair, without blinking an eyelid. If you have two gamblers, one of them 5% better than the other, one could realistically make £20,000 a year from it, the second one could make £70,000. The difference between earning £26,000 a year in the workplace, and £32,000 a year could be four or five years' hard graft and promotion. A small difference in gambling skill can make an astronomical difference to the bottom line here though. The real shrewdies who use Betfair make about 10% profit on turnover, with a fairly astonishing turnover level by any layman's standards.

There is no security in the future of any gambler, bar their own ability to stash away whatever they can for a rainy day. I am 26, and I know that when I do go back into the workplace (something I hope to do) it will be at the bottom rung again. Each year spent as a full timer doesn't knock off a year of your real career at the bottom end of the ladder, it knocks off one of the best years at the end of it. It is quite a heavy burden for me, when most of my peers are doing well and forging ahead as consultants/analysts/bankers/lawyers/accountants/actuaries. Only hindsight will let me know if I did actually make the right decision at this stage in my life.


I'd like to put forward my own opinions of the kind of people who I think would make successful pro gamblers. Every school boy wants to be captain of the football team, or seeing the prettiest girl in the school. I was neither, just a quiet studious swot who probably annoyed people by continually beating everyone in the exams, as well as probably other various nerdy and equally nefarious activities. Pets don't win prizes, geeks do. If you can remember the class genius/nerd, I don't think you're cut out to be a winner on Betfair. If you were the nerd, you have a chance. As I said before, nobody expects to turn up and be a brilliant doctor or lawyer, but everybody likes to have a punt, and most are happy to bet until they've done their cobblers.

I've personally written two specific programs/models which have proved invaluable on certain markets. One has half a million variables. The other I'm incredibly proud of, and wouldn't sell for 30k. Winning at gambling is extraordinarily hard to do consistently, and it takes an armoury of graft, skill and discipline to succeed. The technical skill and wizardry behind some of the API programming is itself several steps up from a relatively small fish like me.

Nobody is ever a real winner from gambling until the day they cash in their chips, and leave the casino. There are gamblers throughout history who have won millions, and lost it all back. If somebody asked me if it can be done, could I truthfully say 'yes'? I'm not sure that I could. I could easily be one of the hundred pros who whilst being successful for the last year, may fall by the wayside over the next. There is no tragedy in that – all that a man can ask for in life is the freedom to live by the sword, and you can only do that if it's possible to die by the sword if you fail.

Starting out as a full timer is not something I would recommend to almost any other person (out of a sense of moral responsibility, not attempted protection of an imaginary part of some imaginary pot of gold). It has been the most astonishing learning curve, and in my first few months I experienced both sustained exhilaration and sustained depression. Gambling success is a fickle mistress, with incredible runs of both victories and defeats entwined illogically by fate. Value is all-important – not winners. That's the first lesson to any gambler, and one which the majority don't ever start to comprehend. The secret is not getting more heads than tails, its winning more when a coin comes up heads than you lose when it's tails.


To be a real pro, gambling ends up becoming almost like a form of accountancy, with a good staking plan, and calculation of value as and when it arises. I no longer have any thrill whatsoever from winning or losing a bet.

It has been an amazing twelve months, and I am very fortunate to have been successful for now. I'm sorry if some of this thread comes across as arrogant – it's all genuine from this side. Some people reading this will be thinking about going pro, and I'm sure other people will be reading too. If you do go pro, then try to remember how much of a rollercoaster emotionally it can be especially at first. Have a level of your bank which you will not go below, and promise yourself you won't go below it. Then make sure you keep that promise. If I've learnt anything its how unimportant money is, and how precious the people around you are.

I hope some of this helps other people. There'll be another geek out there like me who is at the stage I was at a year ago. I hope everyone finds fulfilment and happiness, which is much more than gambling in itself will ever have to offer.

Eddy Murray , Spring 2005

Thread on here last month regards documentaries abart HF and Terry Ramsden

I would be more interested in the quiet gamblers,those you dont read too much about!

Put a million quid up to back his own dog Escholido in a heat of the Derby at Wimbledon. It was awhile ago now but I saw it up there at slight odds on. I think around 120K got matched or thereabouts. It won by half the track...

Likeable,perhaps.
However,living proof that if you back anything consistantly at under the odds you will be "carried out".
Not the first and,most certainly will not be the last.

I keep getting video unavailable

very enjoyable,harry comes across as a lad you would enjoy a pint with

Pretty sure Harry relied on a small team of contacts when piling into the horses. He would go large on the opinion of people he trusted. . I have always doubted his knowledge of horse racing and he admits to have lost long term a small fortune on the nags, yet he see`s it as entertainment and his other sports betting the meat of his success.

Glen.

Yes Racingstar.

What was Glen`s background? Glen Gill

Fancied himself as a judge.
Needless to say,he was not.

I'm a pro and couldn't be more different to him.

Terry Ramsden Documentary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKD36cwqDY

ZIPPER
SPEAKING TO A PAL OF JOHN GOUGH ONLY ON SATURDAY,SAID HE'S GONE BACK TO YORK TO LIVE
NOT TO GOOD ON HIS LEGS THESE DAYS,DOSNT GET OUT MUCH ANY MORE

Terry Ramsden

A classic example of someone living the dream, but then it`s not a dream any more and trying to force into another dream within the one he was already in but no longer aware.

Being locked up for 21 Months is not my idea of "living the dream".

racingstar there are a lot of people who get locked up who do not deserve to be in my opinion.

I saw John Gough regularly at the midland tracks just over ten years ago, he was usually with the dodger before the dodger was killed in a road accident.
I saw him at Worcester once talking to Steve Lewis-Hamilton, I heard him say ''how are you doing Steve?'' I think he was taking the piss because SLH only bets in peanuts.

I only ever saw Goughy bet in four hundreds at a time.

That's not to say he didn't bet larger, that's just what me and my mates used to see him put on.

The "living the dream" part of his life was over before then. Evidently.

Steve Lewis-Hamilton is a professional tipster not a professional gambler.

^ size isnt everything Dr

Mad,
It is not for me to debate whether he deserved to be locked up for failing to disclose assets.
However,he did plead guilty to all three chargesd.

anaglogs,thats the biggest pile of sh1t i've ever had the misfortune to spend 5 mins of my time reading.

Its written by someone whos been brainwashed that he needs a job to conform and be accepted in society and is afraid to be his own man,the truth is man has to be happy in his own skin to be truly successful imo and someone as scared as he sounds couldnt continue to be successful without a change of attitude,at least not independently anyway.

Geeks dont win money,talent,graft,knowledge wins money.

Fancied himself as a judge.
Needless to say,he was not.

I bet he was well ahead of you

LOL at Kelvin, cracking Guy,Great sense of Humour. Used to know him around that time.

If you're looking in Kel, Nick from Amersham says Hello(me)

Oh you're so wrong there auld son. The biggest winners on Betfair are the geeks who never looked at a racecard/racing paper and wouldn't know a horse if it came up and said to them I'm Mr Ed. All they do is switch a couple of buttons head off to work/bed and come back in the evening and see how many 10ps their bot made from them a race. There are only 5% of winners on Betfair . .i bet they are all geeks.

lol AD

Thnaks AD - hadn't seen this before - really enjoyed the watch.

Is he is still married to the woman in the video

it was  made a while ago mate.

HF ? - a loser -  hth .

Another unfounded opinion from Motley.
On the plus side,he did not resort to swearing,yet.

clueless

As Harry went skint it hardly requires a Boston Lawyer to evaluate Glen's ability.

Another unfounded opinion from Motley.
On the plus side,he did not resort to swearing,yet.

Oh dear it's racing star, you donated that £500 quid to the injured jockey's yet

No,Motley as you were wrong in your assertion that I recommended an Ante post bet on Dynaste for the Arkle and more importantly,you did not take me up on the bet.

Here racingstar, I just heard they're now running that dynaste in the arkle, what price
do you make it now eh?

As usual,you are wrong Motley (not even quited in the BF Ante Post Market).
Mind you,I did say it was unlikely to do so.
2-o and goodnight.

You have been exposed as clueless and a tin roofer, don't forget to send that cheq now.
Before you go to your bed, what was that thread heading, hadn't got the time to deal with it last week

Poor bait Motley.
Did you enjoy your ban?
No further discussion will be entertained with you unless you resort again to foul mouthed abuse.

I reckon you're **** yourself now, I was gona take you apart piece by piece
and feed you to your offspring what was the heading of that thread called?.

No ban for me

John Gough  The BBC  made a 30min Documentary about him
Last Of The Big Punters   about  1960is 

I remember seeing this

John could not back a winner for love of money when the documentary was made.

Dr Crippen     29 Jan 13 22:35 
I saw John Gough regularly at the midland tracks just over ten years ago, he was usually with the dodger before the dodger was killed in a road accident.
I saw him at Worcester once talking to Steve Lewis-Hamilton, I heard him say ''how are you doing Steve?'' I think he was taking the piss because SLH only bets in peanuts.

I only ever saw Goughy bet in four hundreds at a time.

That's not to say he didn't bet larger, that's just what me and my mates used to see him put on.


John Gough and Steve Hamilton (as he was then) were pretty close during the mid-1990s, after Gough returned to the UK from Australia. For quite a few years at that time Steve was regularly betting a few hundred quid at at time according to his tissue.

That tissue was quite well respected. He was marking Johnny Lights' card, and Lights would be betting several grand on the short ones using Steve's advice. I earwigged a lovely phone call to Lights one morning when Steve was staying at my gaff overnight for a couple of West Country meetings. It was along the lines of "I couldn't have it shorter than evens, John ... Well, yes, I can see how 4/5 could be value in the circumstances ... well, all right, but 4/6 is the absolute minimum ..."

Eventually Steve hit a very bad run and, with a family, understandably chose to try and sell that advice more widely. He then, for some reason, became double-barrelled, though I don't know whether it doubled the winners.

Gough had gone to Australia when the 4% on-course betting tax was introduced. He got caught up in the dragnet following the Fine Cotton ringer scandal, though I've been told it was no more than a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. He returned to punting in the UK when the on-course tax was abolished, which was when you saw him.

It was hard to be betting bigger than a monkey at that time, because how many books in the ring would have stood a bigger bet from a successful face like John? He used the late Graham Green of the Walters & Williams firm to get larger sums on.

What's Harry up to now?
Coventry dog track closed didn't it?

he's on the jack and jill at waitrose

I want to know how they get a bet on just about every booie has limited me to pence or closed me

great guy,man of the people, i would have him as first choice to front any gambling show

pandora - LOL

why not??? would make a welcome change from a silver spoon fed chinless wonder like luke harvey

If Findlay was working on 4 ratings would rise that's for sure.

when punters win they should learn how to keep it over the years iv seen them come and go go go go go go gooooooooooooooooooo