******** BETTING FOR A LIVING ********

susie
I was thinking of starting a serious thread that everyone could contribute to but the last time we tried that was a few years ago and we had to set up a web site instead due to the idiots on here who just come o here to ruin good threads but yes I would like to start some kind of project
up, see how it go's

brigust1 Thank you for your reply and honesty,due to the fact that SNA had run at Meydan I would have placed a large bet and done my conkers,due to circumstances beyond my control I did not get a bet on SNA (I was very lucky)

Thanks for the reply brigust.

Littlesuzi I think sna was a certainty in the coronation though,even at the price.

Valuebetting That sounds good, good luck
The problem with forums is that it only takes a few idiots to start the ball rolling,what happens is that the sensible ones (myself included) sometimes feel the need to become idiots so as to be able to communicate with the idiots at their level

Good luck with your betting and please go steady>This sport can soon break you.
brigust1 Is good to take advice from
Have you read through the below topic? It's good

http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/28810999/for-the-new-year-2?origpost_id=516761285&pg=1

"I think sna was a certainty in the coronation though,even at the price"

That is a contradiction of terms

Well put Littlesuzielays but please dont "dumb down" to speak to some forum members as I have always respected your wise comments and good manner so keep it up please

A freind of mine from africa once said that "in his village they say that if a donkey kicks you and you kick the donkey back, then you are worse than the donkey" ,very wise words indeed.

bf_fananatic Point taken and good luck today with your ratings

Thank you, fingers and calculations crossed

bf donkey

its a good one that and very true.

I like the Donkey one.

Brig . . . Apolgise if i came over a blunt a bit earlier its years spent on here i guess

You sir speak a lot of sense.

















Still wont have num 5 tho!!!

Be lucky . . Love vic mel.

You need no.5 Fen, trust me.

Look you guys I am no-one secial. I haven't got any special contacts or psychic powers. I wasn't born with a silver spoon and am just working class. I just do exactly what all of you know you should be doing. There are far too many races so I select those I can work on. I never bet in handicaps, with Bf they are wide open for fiddles etc too risky. That means I can plan my whole week easily. I keep my bets the same except for very, very special circumstances. I never chase and by selecting your races and sticking to it that is eliminated.
I keep records every day.
You all now the rules you should be working to but sadly most of you can't live without the buzz.
It really is simple, honestly. I cannot remember the last time I said 'I shouldn't have backed that'.

Me neither.

Every bet i have/do has a reason behind it, if not may as well feed a fobt.

Im on about num 5 never listen to anybody?? Ive been listening and reading all morning.

brigust1

but sadly most of you can't live without the buzz

You have hit the nail on the head there,the buzz nearly finished me

Sorry Fen, I did clarify that with JG and GK. I seriously try not to be swayed by anyone. I've heard enough trainers and jockeys in my time to realise they don't know all that much. If they really fancy something they see all the dangers imaginable and if they don't they don't want the owner hearing them say so. Decide yourself then you know who to blame.

Football betting for me has "22 runners" a game,watch the first 20mins to see who is performing well,then make a personal judgement on the outcome of the match.

"if you~dig" 

Yorkie put forward the definitive method to win at this game (4th reply to this item on 18/06/2012), and since that time most people have missed the main point he was trying to make.

Most importantly, Laying is the way to go , not Backing AND
Discipline is an absolute essential.
To have served a lengthy apprenticeship in the subject is also beneficial.

A big bank and a small daily target are an essential also.

I use a medium (£10k plus) size bank and try to win £33 per day, not a lot but £1000 per month aint bad.
I have no problem risking £1k to win £10.
Are there many out there who would do this.

It requires Knowledge, Patience, Discipline and Balls.
Some would say its stupid - but it works for me.

AND I have much entertainment, which is what its all about.

Bon chance, tout le monde

Most importantly, Laying is the way to go , not Backing - B**locks

a small daily target are an essential also. -  B**locks



There is no definitive method. You find what works FOR YOU.

There are rules to be adhered to to make it successful but the above are definitely not two of the,

I am probably the worst gambler on here as in the races I bet in 12/14 runner handicaps but to me if you can't get value (I understand everyones idea of value is different) but to me its getting at least 6/4 for a place so thats the way i bet and will contnue until it gos pear shaped

Brig . . .agreed ref jocks and trainers certainly didnt mean them

i mean lads on here who put the effort in.

OK Fen, get you. I don't know any on here so wouldn't mnow a good judge from a bad one. Some of the posts are hilarious. I come on when I have a working day or working days but sit it out when I have days off usually. Unless Frankel is running of course.

RothmanMike

Can you explain why Laying is the way to go, not Backing and why a daily target is essential.

Thank-you.

brig 08.12 post.

My 6

Robster Horses

Ryanwe Jump Horses

Bus 13 nfl

Drewboy and Gamsty footy

Hayden ice hockey and tennis.

Koi hunter chases.

Me filthy ew stuff and anything i can find to have an edge.

Irish are lucky how to be a total knut

There are many more if you know where to look.

be lucky

^^ you said it more diplomatically than me :-D

@ betlarge

Thanx. Will keep an eye out.

Ryanwe is on the mepoor thread (loads of good uns on there)

Robster has his own thread is over 200 points in front.

g/l

drewboy and gamesty are on the poopdeck or rather where.

harry findley must be in the twilight zone

havent seen a quote in months

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Spot on brig about needing the buzz at the moment I should only be doing horses and football yet in the past ten days I have strayed onto Rugby both codes

Brig fink steamship is trying to tell you something

sorry as I was saying. Both codes of rugby, cricket and US Open Golf. These 3 sports in the past 8 days have cost me £300 which has had the knock on effect that I have changed my mind about other bets, kept football bets running when I should have traded and not had as much on a couple of winners and worst of all missed Counsel at Kempton last night.

You really have to have a clear mind and when this week is over I will take a break and refresh myself.

How did that happen?

I have just got up to speed not having read this thread for a couple of days. Glad to see everyone knows how to win and is continuing to do so.

up

ttt

Betlarge, throughout time it has always been said that Bookmakers never lose .

Why - because they LAY bets.

Now with the arrival of Betfair we too can LAY bets.

It is the only way to win in the long term, just dont be greedy and lay too much, too often.

I have just got up to speed not having read this thread for a couple of days. Glad to see everyone knows how to win and is continuing to do so.

you've been here long enough to know everyone's a winner on BF

Rothman, do you lay in running or before the off?

trouble is mike bookmakers can lay at better odds than us on here,indeed many on course are just hedging really,but if it works for you then thats fine.

Good thread...very interesting - one thing to bear in mind though is that going full-time makes it a job, I guess an analogy would be the guy who likes a beer becoming a barman as he's enjoys the craic...soon realising that it's not so much fun on the other side...gl anyway...

One of the most intresting threads ive read. I decided to take my Betting more seriously this year as one day would perhaps like to make a living at it but the other and main reason is Pensions are knackered now in this country and i sure as hell don,t want to work till i drop so have to find alternative ways of making a income. I like most can pick winners but that doesnt always guarantee profit. What has been the biggest eye opener for me this year is writing down and recording bets in a diary. Any silly Bets still have to be recorded. Its Human Nature that we remember our Winners and quickly dismiss our losers but when written down, what a eye opener. I analysed my Bets the other day and broke it down to football bets, Horse Racing Bets and Sports Bets. On the Football Bets i learned i have a high strike rate on Premiership Games, La Liga, Scotland, especially brtting in play but am absymal at Internationals and European Matches. Sport im great at predicting Boxing but Darts, im as bad at betting on it as i am on playing it.Horse Racing, good at the big races, crap at low grade racing and handicaps. Has this is written in the Book and ive analysed it i know what to focus on and know what to avoid and avoiding what im not good at would have saved alot of losing Bets. Temperament has been another issue.Ive found when ive been on a losing run ive tended to chase rather than take a step back, again all noted. I myself as this is the 1st time ive recorded bets see this year as serving a apprenticeship ready for the proper stuff. Im in Profit this year but nowhere near what i should be if i eradicated them mistakes. Now ive broke things down i anticipate the 2nd half of the year to be a suceess.

ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Another Keyboard Dickhead zzzzzzzzzzz :-)

steer well clear of the all weather and low value flat and jumps races. Easier for stables to make money from gambling than winning races.

hello valuebetting
nise topic
i am  -28 pts since begin but no worry
but its only one good winner to clear it.
commputer in repairs tues get back wed eve missed 25/1 miami gator had written down mon for wed but forgit it

point is to win over all lomg term  not panic  know strengths weakenesses  be disiplined only play when price bigger than you make

cann't construct good bet
wait opportunity come along and not before
finilly know why you win and why you lose
keep records
best luck

Westdag, 99% Lays before the "off".

However, sometimes I lay a horse much shorter than advertised, and leave it 'in running' when I know from its form that its a prominent runner and will invariably go much shorter early during race.

My favourite Lays are Barney Curley horses that drift during the day1

Betlarge, throughout time it has always been said that Bookmakers never lose .

Why - because they LAY bets.

Now with the arrival of Betfair we too can LAY bets.

Well that’s reasonable based on past history as prior to Betfair, and other internet-based competition, bookmakers could bet to huge overrounds - as much as 3% per runner.  Take today's Buckingham Palace Stakes, the big handicap, 5.35 Ascot.  Go back 10/15 years and this would be priced up at SP at something like 150% giving a whopping profit for layers with a perfect book.

However, at the time of writing (7.30am) there is already an overround of just 3.6% in the back market and the lay market overbroke is around 2% - and that’s in a 32-runner field!  As you correctly imply, laying was extremely attractive.  However, that game is well and truly over.

All on-course bookmakers are backers as well as layers nowadays.  The economics of the game dictate they have to be.

Laying and backing are the same thing.  No difference whatsoever.  If you lay a horse in a race, you are merely backing all the others.  If you back a horse, you are just laying all the others.

A punters success will not be down to whether he backs or lays - that is completely irrelevant.  It will be down to whether he can back at a bigger price than the horse’s real chance of winning, or lay at a shorter price than the horse’s real chance of losing.

betlarge

I agree,but to be able to lay in the main at value prices,I believe requires,putting the price up in running as pre race prices are too high,but if you have the homework done then it is a lucrative business.

RothmanMike....if you bet £1k per race and you try to make £33 per day, what happens when you lose a £1k stake....it takes a month to recover from? If you are just laying outsiders, there have been a fair few outsiders win the last month!

I agree,but to be able to lay in the main at value prices,I believe requires,putting the price up in running as pre race prices are too high, but if you have the homework done then it is a lucrative business.

Absolutely GH.  But your key comment there is 'value prices'.  Whether you back or lay, operate in-running, at morning prices or at ante-post prices, obtaining value is the only thing that matters.  If you can lay in running at value prices you will not fail to make money.  It is mathematically certain.

It's just the dogma that you 'have to lay' or 'have to back' or 'have to bet in running' etc that is nonsensical.  Do whatever suits you best.  But unless you obtain a better price than the likelihood of that event occurring you will fail.  That's mathematically certain too!

I see this thread is STILL going and several have found it interesting. No one has yet mentioned BetFairs own figures, admitedly several years old, that just over 1% of BetFair users make over £15k a year.

SO it is is likely that just under 99% of users make much less than a living wage. I know that not all users are trying to make a living on hear.Believe me, if anyone, and I know there are very few but they do exist,knows how ITCANBEDONE. they are not going to tell anonymous posters on a gambolling forum HOWITCANBEDONE! Also true professionals are too busy to post on gambolling forums.

DO NOT DELUDE YOURSELVES! Think logically! If form, ratings or statistics worked we would all be winners and their would be no one to take our bets. Ask yourselves, why is it that so few win. If those who write in the racing journals were any good, they would not be cooped up at a computer in a stuffy office, they wood of maid their pile and have retired to the Bahamas, spending there days relaxing by a swimming pool being served Pina Coladas by young dusky maidens. Even those with info don't always get it right. Look at how many "gambols" go astray.

To quote from my book "The Sayings of Dr Slicer", which is available at all not very good bookshops nowhere in the country, "There are lies, damn lies, statistics, and then there is form!"

Now for those novices who think they can beat the sharks on hear, and all the deluded who have convinced themselves that THEYCANDOIT here is a song  I have requested for you.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnzHtm1jhL4

Asta Banana

Dr Aristotle Slicer

By the way, as I regard the above posting as being for the public good, I am waiving my normal posting fee. That's the sort of generous philanthropist I am!

Can we use the above as a spelling test for the under 5's, Dr Slicer?

Although I have many degrees and am highly edumacated, I was no good at spelling cos I am illegitimate.

I hope this clarifies the matter.

Off for tiffin now before I consult the horoscope of every hoarse racing today so that I can plaice high steaks in order to make a big prophet.

Back in time for the Royal procession. God Bless Her Majesty.

Well it is a fact that systems in their pure form don't work in the long run,and bookmakers in the past were willing to accommodate punters with their system bets.

However systematic betting can be successful.

Dr Aristotle your image of young dusky maidens,could be the inspiration for many aspiring professional punters.

Betlarge, that assumes every horse is layed in each race, but of course this is not so.
In fact only the front 4 or 5 are layed, and rarely are the rags bet - on here you can lay whatever you wish, and I lay the rags.
This is where a degree of knowledge comes in.
Knowledge of tracks, trainers, owners,jockeys, draws, going, distances, etc .
Betting patterns, trainer-jockey associations, C&D horses. etc.
So many other criteria built up over the "apprenticeship" of 40 years - no substitute for experience unfortunately.

Blades, I try to cruise to my min target but continue to watch every race with a view to increasing a daily return -usually 10-15 lays per day.
When I have big loss (and £1000 is very rare, usually £400-ish), I then re-calculate the requirement for the rest of the month to acheive the target.
I also then increase lays to 30 lays in the day.
PS I start in the morning with South African an go through to US racing, and even Australian if necessary.
In between there are dogs, football, tennis,rugby, etc so at lease 100 opportunities per day.

So alot of extra effort has to go in to retrieve the situation, but must not go "on tilt" under any circumstances.

Expext losses 'cos they're gonna happen, its how you deal with them that costs most people their money.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Red Hiney Monkey • June 21, 2012 12:34 PM BST

There is no definitive method. You find what works FOR YOU.
could not agree more red, I bet in big field handicaps between march and last day of the flat.

Anyone considering betting full-time has to ask themselves w/ they want to do w/ their lives in the most global sense.

What do you want yr relationships to be like? Yr work-life balance? Ye retirement? Do you enjoy betting enough to want to be staring at a screen all day when what you're betting on doesn't excite you?

People who can make a living betting can almost certainly make money doing something else. Even someone smart who did badly at school can over a 5yr period get themselves educated and put themselves in line for a 40k or so job.

Personally I make roughly 40% of my normal salary per hour betting and take days off (I'm self-employed) when I'm passionate about the day's racing. I doubt my relationships wd have lasted if I did this full-time; I'd see friends less often and know fewer interesting clients, esp. from East Asia.

If you're determined, winning is not insuperably difficult, but riding out the swings and winning enough w/out becoming a slave to it are.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

wake up deadbrain or your miss today's racing

Thanks for the reply RothmanMike.

Must be tempting with such a sizable bank to get involved more often especially if your daily return is 0.33? Or have you learnt form bitter experience?

RothmanMike, I think we both have a similar strategy, except, I stick to UK racing and top cricket/footie only, so I have limited opportunities.

*0.33%

i think astology is good value in the 3.05 at ascot

* Astrology *

Wow- you are sticking your neck out with that one.

Good luck!

Oh dear!!!!

it lost we move on,no drama

when did this turn into a tipping thread

The contribution is valuable in that it shows that even backing an odds on fave which has been heavily backed is not the way to Bet for A living.

You have to be very lucy to be a pro.

And the more work I put into it, the luckier I get.

How many horses in one day go odds on in running but do not win?

ttt

soba
22 Jun 12 15:36

You have to be very lucy to be a pro.

hello soba
no need be very lucky to be pro
nowing true odds is must to get value
be careful with monie is also

best luck

me pts show loss june 
nest month me win for shure

The duration of this thread is enuff time for all to realise ITCANTBEDONE!

I hope this is of assistance.

ttt

roberto likes to win and for the new year 2 combined is over 350 pts in profit for the year 2012

£100 per point £35,000

both are doing this on a part time basis.

Part time since 2003, Full time since 2007. Patience and discipline required in abundance VB, don't need a partcularly big float (I was playing with £20,000 when I first started but find half that is sufficient these days due to weaker markets) but do need to be very astute with it.

Tell your mate that it can be done but in all honesty the best days for what I do are long gone and won't be coming back in a hurry. I've had to adapt to the changing environment we now find ourselves in. Did I do the right thing in 2007? Yes. Would I do it now? Probably not.

did you punt or trade, trademark.

apols of you've already answered this valuebetting but has your mate given it a go since back in June when this started?

If so how has he got on?

cheers yorkie
back in june his job looked very dodgy and that's why we were discussing betting for a living, he was earning €700 a week so he was willing to put 10k in here to see what happened but he got a reprieve in the job. however after all the discussions and idea's that were floated he decided to put some money in to see if he could do it

his views are

1. without the pressure of knowing if the results didn't go his way he would have no money he does not know whether he or his wife could take the pressure.
2. he put 5k in his account in june and started betting, he only had 2 kind of bets 25 e/w or 50 win, he does want everyone to know because he was working he did not bet everyday so this must be taking into account, now we can take that both ways either he had less days to win or (in slicers view it can't be done) less days to lose.
3. financial gains/loss he has taken €5,332 from his account and has left 4k in it
he also would like it known that he had 25 e/w on a system horse that won at 100/1 on the sand so he would be down to a little more than half the profit had that not have won but I myself fail to see why that matters as how much did he lose on the system horse's that lost.

talking to him just last week he said if he had to do it and it was the only way of increasing his weekly earning he would do it but not by choice also said that he thought peoples moods and their well being might come in to play if they were not mentally cut out for the losing side if the betting.

asked him "did he still think he could get a living from punting"

answer: he is not as confident as he was before he started in june but he did state he was only doing it part time so who knows but did want to point out how a family would cope mentally depending on results to eat and pay bills.

so there you go folks warts an all

Bit of both VB. Used to have a very rigid system for years but since the markets have weakened I've had to start being more flexible in my approach.

His views ring a lot of bells with me, very honest and accurate assessment of life on here currently IMO.

yes trademark, he tells it as it is. no rose tinted glass views from this fellow.

good luck mate.

cheers valuebetting - agree with trademark, sounds like a very honest appraisal.

I would give you some more advice, but I seem to remember how much
is left over from the last time we crossed paths

ok motley I know I am gonna wish I had not but give us your view and only on the thread above nothing else
no personnel views on anything else please

views only on betting for a living

ttt

I am gonna wish I had not but give us your view

Why have you wished you had not asked me my view
Just do the exact opposite to what you have been doing, but If you
have to ask for the way forward, you're probably not quite there yet.
There's no system, formula, magic bullet etc, despite what some of the nutters
on here insist. It's about reading a race, and profiling horses, finding the improvers
spotting value, and experience, as there are so many variables. Then the most important facet
of all, Discipline.

You behave yourself Uncan, behave yourself now

Wisest three words on this thread to be found above - find the improvers

ttt

sorry, thought was General Betting