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thelastleprechaun
09 Apr 12 00:24
Joined:
Date Joined: 05 Apr 12
| Topic/replies: 473 | Blogger: thelastleprechaun's blog
If you dont know what dutching is, it is choosing more than one selection in the same event and splitting your total stake into different amounts so that no matter which of your selections are successful you make the same profit, give or take a couple of pence...
Ok I was thinking taking the first 12 lowest prices or as near as dammit in the UK grand national and dutching them, and posting the result on here, to show how much is needed on each if your stake was 50.00 the dutching calculator i am using is my own creation, and can be seen on you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rps1lJYoKng if you copy and paste that in your browser you can see it being used, anyway thats just to show its genuine, so if anyone wants me to do this just answer with a yes or no, the majority will decide..
Pause Switch to Standard View If Anyone is interested in this I...
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Report Greg_Gory April 9, 2012 12:33 AM BST
could i do this in a ten runner race and dutch all of them Grin

this could be the golden goose im looking for Excited
Report fawwon April 9, 2012 12:40 AM BST
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 12:47 AM BST
yes you would need to adjust the odds after you enter your stake which can be as much or as little that's the users choice, you adjust the odds by a sensible amount you expect when in running, you can work out that before the off as you need to input your expected odds before the off, so you don't miss them as you know odds go up and down in a flash, but to answer your question yes its def possible, and that makes your bet an arbitrage, where you have all options covered whatever happens you win...i use this on 5,6 and 7 horse races just as i describe here, and it hasn't let me down yet..... but don't forget all responsibilities are the users and not the actual tool..what people do with it is their own choice and they alone are responsible if they try to use it in other ways ty
Report hello :-) April 9, 2012 12:52 AM BST
Crazy
Report Smar Tarse April 9, 2012 12:53 AM BST
I think you need to take it to version V1.2 if that 118.00 is profit Confused
Report thegiggilo April 9, 2012 12:57 AM BST
Silly
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 12:59 AM BST
Please view it on you tube and read read read read it, it clearly says that the amount shown at the bottom is including your investment amount, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 118.00 is = to 18.00 profit and it also states that is before deduction of commission
Please read and watch before you tear me apart like that THANK YOU. plus it was for the interest of punters on here I posted this as it takes my time and I wanted to share, thank you for your version 1.2 suggestion but its not necessary as this tool is complete and accurate
Report onlooker April 9, 2012 12:59 AM BST
If you want to CURRENTLY 'Dutch' the 10 Lowest priced Horses on Betfair .....

Synchronised - Odds 10-0  Stake  £11.1 = £99.9 Return
   
Junior - 15.0 x £7-14 = £99.96

On His Own - 18.5 x £5.71 = £99.93   
   
Ballabriggs - 18.5 x %5.71 = £99.93   
   
Cappa Bleu - 18.0 x £5.99 = £99.86

Chicago Grey - 18.5 x £5.71 = £99.93

Seabass    - 25.0 x £4.16 = £99.84

West End Rocker    - 18.5 x £5.71 = £99.93

Killyglen - 19.0 x £5.55 - £99.90

Sunnyhillboy - 22.0 x £4.76 = £99.86

Giles Cross - 26.0 x 4.0 = £100

Shakalakaboomboom - 21.0 x 5.0 = £100

---------------------   

TOTAL Stake REQUIRED = £70.44 -to RETURN, circa £100.
   
Done on the Betfair Market frame
Report onlooker April 9, 2012 1:01 AM BST
^ If you want to CURRENTLY 'Dutch' the 12 Lowest
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 1:03 AM BST
no problem with that, why are so many people trying to find fault on here, and prove it can be done in so many ways, I was merely making an offer of this information to those interested, and I asked for a yes or no, which no one who replied managed to work out yet.......
Report hello :-) April 9, 2012 1:11 AM BST
Crazy
Report onlooker April 9, 2012 1:19 AM BST
Racing isn't a simple as just "Yes or No", son

You may/will find that out - when you have been here longer than 3 days.
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 1:20 AM BST
oh please!!!!!
Report onlooker April 9, 2012 1:38 AM BST
from your second post on this thread ...

..."you adjust the odds by a sensible amount you expect when in running, you can work out that before the off as you need to input your expected odds before the off, so you don't miss them as you know odds go up and down in a flash, ..... where you have all options covered whatever happens you win.
------------------------

'you have all options covered whatever happens you win'.

Only if they ALL get matched.... and ONE of them WINS.

Otherwise - Your £100 EXPOSURE on the REST of the FIELD will Floor you.

How, then, can you have? ..... "all options covered"[/b] ... and, "whatever happens you win.
------------------------
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 1:57 AM BST
Putting this thread to bed thanks for input

this list supplied by onlooker as 12 lowest prices on offer at the moment in the uk grand national, you can see in his post above how he  dutched them in the betfair market frame, the following are the same selections and the prices that are on offer right now in betfair at time of posting, using my own calculator here are the stakes and returns to a total outlay of 100.00

Synchronised -  Odds 9.8  Stake  15.38 = 150.72
   
Junior -             15 x 10.05       = 150.75

On His Own -         18 x 8.37        = 150.66 
   
Ballabriggs -        19 x 7.93        = 150.67   
   
Cappa Bleu -         17.5 x 8.61      = 150.68

Chicago Grey -       18 x 8.37        = 150.66

Seabass    -         26 x 5.80        = 150.80

West End Rocker      19 x 7.93        = 150.87

Killyglen -          19.5 x 7.73      = 150.74

Sunnyhillboy -       22.0 x 6.85      = 150.70

Giles Cross -        26.0 x 5.80      = 150.80

Shakalakaboomboom -  21.0 x 7.18      = 150.78

PLEASE NOTE THE RETURNS INCLUDE YOUR OVERALL OUTLAY, OF 100 SO THE PROFIT IS 50.00 AND FEW PENCE BEFORE 5% COMMISSION DEDUCTED THE REAL MONEY IN THE HAND PROFIT FOR THE USER IS APPROX 47.50 GIVE OR TAKE A FEW PENCE........ END OF THIS THREAD THANK YOU
Thats def all im gonna say on betfair community about dutching...phew!!!
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 1:59 AM BST
onlooker, i was replying to a post not making a statement, it is possible as i explained in the reply to them, please read that
Report onlooker April 9, 2012 2:04 AM BST
Yes YOUR profit is £47.50 ..... BUT to a TOTAL £100 Stake.

But it is NOT any greater.

My example is £29.66 Profit  - BUT to a TOTAL Stake of JUST  £70.44.

It is the SAME percentage Profit whatever way you use.Grin

However - 'DUTCHING' is usually meant to mean to a prescribed RETURN, whichever horse wins - and not a prescribed Total STAKE - as in your example - and calculator.
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 2:12 AM BST
i made this calculator for one major reason, online there are plenty of free dutching tools to use online, they all seem to ask how much you want to win and then tell you to lay out gods knows how much, well thats ok for the big money punter, which I am not, so i wanted something i could choose how much i wanted to stake, so i went and programmed it myself to suit my needs, i can now dutch a fiver or a tenner or whatever, keeping it in my reach and still able to dutch the options.....i did not claim it to be better or worse than your method, the odds are the same so both should show same percentage of profit no matter how much is staked overall...

your statement "However - 'DUTCHING' is usually meant to mean to a prescribed RETURN, whichever horse wins - and not a prescribed Total STAKE - as in your example - and calculator. "

is correct but i didnt want that, as i said i wanted to be in control of how much i stake so i changed the rules of that to fit my needs and its doing me proud atm, thank you for your points of view, they were and are valid, and thats how we move forward...
Report GT-MOLE April 9, 2012 2:16 AM BST
FFS the last drops and the last sandwich from the mini bar and I was on the verge of suing the hotel for putting  drugs in the Perrier.

I then realised that either BF_fanantic has suddenly found a golden goose from Rotterdam or Money_Tree has stayed up past bedtime.

Strange coincidence that the leopardcon has found the golden goose which put all the cloggie bookies out of business.If it is you BF_f you need more practice in the method of dutching.........as you said you dont understand it........you were correct.

A Dutch Cap may be of use in case your rhythm method fails.hthShockedWink
Report GT-MOLE April 9, 2012 2:20 AM BST
Btw Onlooker................my moles have confirmed it is indeed BF_f.LaughWink

Have a rest from all this computerised malarkey BF_f it must be giving you nightmares.hthWinkLove
Report northanlite April 9, 2012 2:20 AM BST
i thought dutching was wearing cloggs riding a bike & smoking skunk (not necessarily in that order)
Report sir_lancebot April 9, 2012 2:23 AM BST
I know how to do this.
Not a fan of dutching, because I don't mind losing some races and I don't mind waiting for a while before I score a winner.
Dutching is good for exotic bets at high price in my opinion.
There are some more intriguing applets I have in mind though. The creator of the dutching calc may write to me if he is interested.
In the old days when betting on singles was not accepted everywhere I used to do a lot of dutching.
Report GT-MOLE April 9, 2012 2:25 AM BST
Sir lance you are "another" who is confusing Dutching with Cottaging.napSadCry
Report GT-MOLE April 9, 2012 2:35 AM BST
Dutching guide for idiots...................object to make a profit from more than one selection in a race.

Objective e.g £10 profit...........horse 1 & 5/2 = £4 win..........horse 2 @ 5/1 = £2 win.........horse 3 @ 10/1 = £1 win etc etc etc.The only adjustments to be made are the small fractions to cover the lost stakes on the ones failing to win to ensure the target profit.

No more no less and no exotics or otherwise required.....................anything else is not Dutching.hthWinkCrazy
Report jessiehadadream April 9, 2012 5:16 AM BST
Backing 1/4 of the field at 1/3....that's genius. Hope it works out for you mate.
Report Greg_Gory April 9, 2012 8:52 AM BST
i like his other idea better Laugh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMoa5pPgRk8&context=
C4e5f66dADvjVQa1PpcFMOfCRJiifWmgq7uNHK8xrO_uaLCrl9CYQ=
Report Smar Tarse April 9, 2012 10:48 AM BST
thelastleprechaun - apologies if my statement upset you.

I have been writing computer software for donkeys years, and if i see something that is not correct i will say so to try and help Happy Cool

It is quite clear to me that the caption in your 3rd frame says "No matter which of your selections are successful. you get the same profit from any of them" And your calculations shown in each box is 118.00, now as an end user i can only take that as 118.00 being the calculated profit right.

It is constructive criticism from another computer programmer's prospective that's all Grin


You should think about using arrays and list-boxes so you don't have a limit on the selections.
Let your end user copy the market and click a button and have all the runners and prices listed in one go, like i did in my first calc many many years ago Grin
.http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/1157/screenshotgyx.jpg


Good Luck
Report thelastleprechaun April 9, 2012 12:10 PM BST
Smar Tarse let me ask you to please read the following...... you are picking on something i said to another blogger who asked me in this post, (the first reply above)if they could back all runners in a 10 horse race and i merely pointed out that yes you can but you need to ADJUST the odds to achieve this, my calculator is for dutching and NOT for arbing, which is really what that blogger needs, in running with adjusted odds you could effectively back all runners and arb them, i have done it many times but not in 10 runner events, 5 or 6 i found more successful but in a fun way, Im not upset if it doesnt match one and that wins, I like experimenting, I like trying something new, and this thread was not about how to do this or that with my calculator, it was if people wanted to have the first 12 in the betting of the grand national crunched in a calculator to give equal profit if one is successful, that's all, but of course there are flamers in this community who post to upset and infuriate others who are trying to be helpful and discuss some very good topics and points of view... I should have known better than to bother trying to be helpful to anyone who might get some fun having more than one quarter of the runners in a race to enjoy,make a small profit..... hmpf! however in all of this is a positive, In the future I will keep my opinions to myself concerning similar tools and ideas..
Report Red Hiney Monkey April 9, 2012 12:15 PM BST
Have you ever heard of a paragraph? This thread is...

[x] Pointless
[x] Lacking in Grammar/Literacy
[x] Bollox
Report dunlaying April 9, 2012 1:49 PM BST
147.50/100.00=1.475
100/70.44=1.4196
So if the posters figures are correct then there is a difference.About 5.5 %,ie the difference between a big house and the workhouse.
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