Turf TV

from ruk

Are there ANY home turf tv subs ?

NO howard, got to be a commercial property...shame

Why would you want Turf TV at home when RUK is a blink of an eye behind and only £20 a month ?

perhaps one of ratpack's stalkers might ask him if he has any info as to developments and what might happen next?

Doubled are the skype boys simply pointing a camera at the racetech course tv or is there more to it ?

howard     01 Mar 12 15:43 
Thanks Gerb. Do you mean they use a camera to film the picture or is there a way of plugging it to the feed ?

i heard it was just pointing the camera at the racetech pics on the monitor

Turf TV have moved premises and this delay is accidental.Their technicians are working to resolve the issue but it is probably not a priority.

Above post is correct. Just spoke to Turf and they are working on correcting this, have asked them to keep me updated so will post any relevant info up on this thread.

Does "correcting this " mean making RUK slower again ?

Beggars belief that the delay is accidental-it will be interesting to see how long it takes to resolve if indeed they ever will.

The beard isnt it good news or do you run an exchange shop ?

I'd love turftv to say, "as a bookie what does the split second difference make to you barely offering any IR bets."

The argument that "I don't want an advantage, I'd like a level playing field as much as anyone I just don't want ppl in front of me" only goes so far, ppl use it as an excuse to kid themselves. The reality is they need the advantage to survive imo.

Think youre 90% wrong Dusty. Real horseplayers predict what is about to happen they dont need an advantage but they dont want people taking their  money on what has already happened.

I think there would be a decent increase in RUK subs if they guaranteed that they are as quick as ANY off-course digital pictures

howard-i use an exchange shop and to be honest i make it pay on sis but turf tv being 0.7 behind was the icing on the cake-the new delay makes it more of a struggle

howard
I disagree. Its disingenuous to suggest that 'they just dont want to lose to ppl infront of them'...in that case they would be happy to give up any money won from ppl behind them then?
If somebody fancies themselves as a decent IR player to cut it off a disadvantage, any advantage is purely greed and they shouldnt be using the 'I only do it because' arguement.

Which one do you use ? ( and is it full / nearly full ? )    Ive just had the odd day years ago Beverley / Leeds. I was considering having another go shortly but i doubt that i will in the present situation as i like the good stuff on the flat so thats mainly RUK.

Gap between RUK and Turf looks bigger today lads

But still smaller than it was.....

Have RUK slowed down?

Nothing has changed

Yes Turf TV is now more delayed than it historically has been and is now (near as makes no difference) on a par with RUK (probably nearly 3 seconds behind live).

There will be no more income for IR exchange shop punters unless Turf TV decide to bring their service back up to 0.7 seconds behind live.

Where do things go from here I wonder.

can't you win using RUK pictures tommy ?

don't be ridiculous

if everyone was on a level playing field , do you think you could compete ?

if everyone was on a level playing field , those that are use to fast pictures would find it alot harder .
they might still win, but not the ammount there use to

just a thought here but maybe Turf TV courses want to sell the boxes to the track lads like the SIS tracks

You will find plenty track players on Turf TV tracks for the 0.7 second advantage !!

tommy k - you say dont be ridiculous to winning on RUK . i have used RUK and betfair video and i earn a wage .
what kind of money do you earn using turf tv , compared to what you would if you had to use RUK .
also , how far late in the race do you play on turf tv . myself i can only really bet before the last furlong .

pete thats how they make their money last 100 yards where we cant play.

Article in RP today (page11) - Coincides with move from Teddington to high definition enabled studios in Ealing a week ago. They have moved with Racing UK and they are sharing certain resources.

So commercial premises bookmakers and exchanges are expected to pay £9000+ for the same pictures that RUK charge home subscribers £20 a month for. This would be the signal the end of exchanges shops and the only ones to benefit would be track players. Sis which is 3sec behind has been killed by track players and now Turf looks set to go the same way. Track players will end up feeding of each other. So far from a level playing field for all in running punters now it's riduculous !!

I see the pictures will be slower when HD comes in within next 12 months.

End of in running, period.

Track boys play each other for ever dwindling returns.

The in running game has become pathetic,ATR slow pics,RUK,Turf TV,SIS Skype and the track boys. What used to be so good has now become something to be avoided at al costs. The quicker it dies a death the better

Don't agree with most of the above.

The new delay is better for the majority of inrunning punters. Now the RUK players are only behind the track boys.Not the track boys AND the exchange shop boys. This now makes it a more level playing field for home users.

The track boys will always be ahead and rightly so if they're willing to put the miles in and travel,fair play to them.

SIS is still playable even with the track players.Are people trying to say its only the track players that make the game pay?

The only people moaning about the ruk/turf tv new speeds are the exchange shop players.The same players that have said for years they would like a more level playing field.Well now you have it and for a far lot cheaper than what you've had it previously.

If your not happy with the track boys being ahead then go to the tracks but in truth the new delays are better for most and now gives the home players a better chance.

they wanted the level playing field the other way up tho - where they were top of the pile and not still behind the track boys - funny ole game innit!

SIS tracks are fine on live video. Jump meetings were more than do-able on ATR until the increse in delay last summer, although the flat was a struggle.

RUK and turf would still be less delayed than the other side so forgive me if I don't hear the fat lady singing just yet.

I have been sat in an exchange shop nearly every day Starfish for the past 5 or 6 years ( sad but true ) and i am not moaning about anything that u mention. I have made a good living and touch wood it will continue - u must learn to adapt to the situations put in front of u when chances take place . U r right that its slightly more difficult than it used to b but believe me i love every minute of it - even losing days r better than a normal job.I say good luck to the track boys - i really couldnt b bothered with the travelling and in some cases the egos that may well b on track ! Lets face it its not the first time that picture speeds have changed and may well go the other way shortly . - who knows ?

Sludge and Starfish good posts. How are the exchange shops doing many spare seats or are they still full on 2 meeting Mondays/Tuesdays?

That is true Sludge we don't know what way it will go.What I'm saying is instead of all the doom and gloom posted above these new speeds are the best thing to happen to in running in years.It gives far more players a chance.If anything it might even bring new players in or previous players back.This can only be good for liquidity.

What have you been paying for your seat per week for the last 5 years Sludge including travel time etc?

Now you will get the same deal for 1/10 of the price in the comfort of your own home.Maybe I should have wrote its the Exchange shop owners and not the players that will be moaning.

The good exchange shop players will still make money regardless of the track players.The track players have nearly always been there.

This is a good thing !

I pay 200 quid for 7 sessions and live about 5 mins from the shop so no traffic jams etc ! I really do appreciate how lucky i am and even if it became impossible ( which i dont believe will happen ) i would just have to try different things or start going to the track myself . I am based in Leeds - where r u ?

Turf TV should never have been quicker than RUK. Turf TV is a commercial service for bookmakers, not a service for in-running punters. It makes no difference to betting shop punters if pictures are 0.7 seconds behind live or 2 seconds behind live.

RUK should always have provided a red button option where viewers can access pictures that are 0.7 seconds behind live for an increased monthly charge. They regard themselves as a premium channel and should therefore provide the best possible service for their subscribers.

I think skype is getting hyped a bit.
I tested out the ipad's camera and without any programmes or net connection there is a split second delay even on its own screen.
Couple that with the wifi then going to then from the server, and you have a delay imo.
Also I have used a few programmes similar to skype, airdisplay and login ingnition and let me tell you, they are an absolute dog for upadating the onscreen info.
I have a fibre optic net which has the wifi litrally at arms reach and the ipad continually drops out.
It aint the holy grail people think it is.
Imo if you have even 2 ppl sharing a desktop there will be a delay and it WILL drop out

Don't agree that it makes no difference to betting shop punters as the future will see bookmakers offering more optionds to bet in-running in shops imo.

Surprisingly enough Jack i agree with every word u say.

True Jack. The interesting thing might be what RUK do when HD comes in. If its the case that HD is slower ( I believe they have said it wont be )and they have normal and HD channels an awful lot of people arent going to watch HD or pay for it if its more expensive.

I'm talking about the past, Doubled. In the future I hope all the channels are only 0.7 seconds behind live so that we finally have a level playing field, excluding those at the track.

In answer to your question Howard the shop itself is now struggling for custom - normally about a third full. Quite a few of the regulars who have been here for years now go to the track most of the time.

Well said Starfish.

What is also neglected is the role that reading a race plays.
Its no point having pictures that are fractionally quicker if your race reading skills are poor.

Thanks Sludge. Thats interesting. I take it they just go to SIS/ATR tracks. Ive been to Broad Lane a couple of times without stopping for a full afternoon. I was always told it was full upstairs but never got to see it.

wesdag, the level playing field means we all have the same facts (pictures) off-course 0.7 seconds behind live, obviously interpretation will vary from person to person but thats what betting should be all about, liquidity would escalate overnight

Rider, I think we're in agreement.

When RUK go HD there will still have to be a Standard Definition channel for those who don't have a HD box. The SD pictures are always in front of the HD pictures now - if you watch Sky sports 1 on SD and flick to HD you will see that SD is quicker.

They were supposed to launch HD a year ago, what's the delay?

ok wesdag, but not sure race reading is neglected, the subject has been done to death since i can remember

Doubled , for once they may have to think about IR punters before deciding what to do. That is unless they dont think about it and come a cropper.

I dont think the needs of th IR fraternity will be discussed at much length at any Turf/SIS HQ meetings tbh

Turf Tv have recently moved their Studio premises and therefore have a new Leased line and Uplink.Therein lies the problem,imo.

is it still a case of turf tv has slowed down rather than ruk speeded up

Gerbs,
It is very likely to be a bit of both.
RUK was 1.0 seconds behind SIS on Emirates Racing but were almost level last week.

RUK seems to be about 0.5 seconds quicker than previously when I timed it against CH4 on Saturday.

Interseting post from Betfair Customer Servics last week

Given the combination of varying picture delays to which many customers are now subject and the particularly time-sensitive nature of in-running greyhound racing, as of today’s date we will no longer offer greyhound racing in-running.  We may review this if circumstances change.

Separately, again as of today’s date, we will now be offering the Betfair SP for all greyhound TV races on shown live on either Sky Sports or on the Greyhound TV Channel (channel 231 on the Sky platform).

Horse racing next?

If Turf TV continues to broadcast it's service in more than 0.7 seconds behind live then I am sorry to say that a big majority of IR shop players will be forced out of the game.  It's very easy to say that the track players earn their advantage by travelling and paying the costs, but what happens when the tracks inevitably fill up?  Years ago I phoned round a dozen or so tracks to try and get in, and I struggled to get in even then!  IR should not be limited to the lucky few who have managed to secure themselves seats at the most lucrative tracks, neither does the future for IR look bright once reality sets in and people realise that if they're not at the tracks, they're almost guaranteed to consistently lose, (race reading skills or not).

You might be right Tommy as it seems clear that the shop players valued turf tv more than SIS as they were nearer the track/live time with the former. Unfortunately it doesnt help the home player unless they can get RUK even quicker. When 4G phones come wont everyone be able to play on course without box facilities ? ( Ive heard it will be as fast as a broadband line )

If Turf TV continues to broadcast it's service in more than 0.7 seconds behind live then I am sorry to say that a big majority of IR shop players will be forced out of the game.  It's very easy to say that the track players earn their advantage by travelling and paying the costs, but what happens when the tracks inevitably fill up?  Years ago I phoned round a dozen or so tracks to try and get in, and I struggled to get in even then!  IR should not be limited to the lucky few who have managed to secure themselves seats at the most lucrative tracks, neither does the future for IR look bright once reality sets in and people realise that if they're not at the tracks, they're almost guaranteed to consistently lose, (race reading skills or not).

Sorry but just isn't true.The track boys have always been there from the start whether it be guys on their mobile phones to their mate sitting on the pc at home or in the boxes playing of their own pc's yet the GOOD players in the exchange shops have and will still continue to make money.Some might even argue that home players playing of RUK and live video can still make it pay.

People mention the track players like its the be all and end all.I can tell you from experience it isn't all its made out to be.All the travelling,30/40 guys fighting over the same things,the expenses,the stakes needed to make it pay by going to the track its far from easy.

A GOOD race reader has never had it so good with or without the track players.Like anything the best will adapt and continue to make it pay.The others that were relying on the turf tv pics may get found out but if
truth be told if they cant make it pay now then they were probably on borrowed time anyway.

Totally agree with the above post

Starfish, talking total sense yet again.

Starfish - While I agree with your point about the track players finding it a struggle, my feelings are that things will improve for them on course ie. better internet connections and facilities.  Not only this but the track players will undoubtedly become a group of good players.

In my opinion, a good player in the shops will lose every time against a good player on track with the right internet connection.

For the future, I just hope that the improvements in internet speeds throughout the UK, coupled with technological advancements will mean that one day, there will be a true level playing field for all.

Rumours that it is only 1.25 behind live now ??? anyone confirm

Definitely seems like it's back to normal today the clock on turf and RUK are different today unlike other days. I also know someone at catterick today and they say that its back to what it normally was (i.e 0.7 - 1 second behind)

0.7 seconds or live doesn't really matter if they all win by 20 lengths!!

ruk is now 0.7 behind turf..

ruk still 0.2 behind here

bollox

Old aerial still up in Front street next week Wazza ?

My man on track yesterday on telephone to me from Catterick - seemed around a second behind live (max)

I have a contact today at carlisle, Turf TV is more than 1 second behind live there.  Maybe the size of the delay is track dependant?

What do you reckon it is today ?

1.25 secs

That figure has been mentioned before as the "new" delay on Turf TV - Cheers

What's the difference between Turf Tv and RUK today please?

Thanks.

What are the betting exchange shop owners saying to customers ? Or are they just taking the same fees and saying nowt ?

They have obviously been on the phone to turf tv howard.

RUK is now slower again and Turf has quickened up.

starfish , RUK is still 2 seconds behind the talking clock . as it has been since RUK moved studio . so it hasn't slowed down

It has for me rcing. It was the same speed as SIS last week.Its now .7 sec behind SIS. Have both of them in front of me.

Turf only 1 second behind SIS today.

Turf tv behind SIS ?

Tommy - do you mean behind live ?

Sorry, typo.  Business as usual - Turf just over 1 second behind live, RUK just less than 1 second behind turf.

must be like picking up money off the floor on turf

Think youre right Rider. They are so close to live that they can compete almost on level terms with any track boys yet they still have plenty of RUK punters to feed off.

interesting that is takes 2 econds to receive ruk and 1 second for turftv, i presume the ruk studio then recieve the turftv pics add on the all important comments from people like andy richmond and then bounce the pics to the subscribers, which begs the question - do subscribers really want to have twice the delay for what is added on at the studio ? or would they rather miss the studio out and have parity with turftv?

My hope is that RUK HD is behind normal RUK which they will have to keep on air. Of course they could put a delay on it so they are the same. Then many would give up paying £20 a month imo.

HD will probably be an expensive mistake, they are totally out of touch with what their subscribers want, imo

I really don't understand why Turf Tv pics should be quicker than RUK. It seems to me that a few trading shop owners are able to profit by acting as middlemen selling those pics on to in-running players when RUK could be receiving much of that revenue if they were to offer a red button option where these punters could access faster pics for an increased monthly fee.

They dont really talk about  what the subscribers want. They get a lot of money from bookmakers and maybe think that the punters will pay large money for delayed pictures.

i suspect they might have been better investing in red button technology to enable a quicker pics option (like atr did once did), rather than 7 million on HD, admittedly that might not look so good on some ruk bods CV though