racecourse overrounds.rp page 6.

if you ask for 25000/10000 a 6/4 chance what MUG would do that

A 50000/10000 was laid on the rails on sat at Newmarket .  Not by us by the way...

This is getting like a comedy now stewart tbh, your last post is gas, pure gas.

stopped using bookies years ago as no chance of getting the decent odds you get on the exchanges.

The opening quote posted on page 1 of this thread....

The extent to which this happened can be seen in the fact that, in 2001, the average percentage overround per runner was 1.91 but, by 2010, this had decreased by 16% to 1.60.

....suggests bookies are working to tighter margins than ever before and giving the punter better value.

But look at the average overrounds per runner on Day 1 of Royal Ascot in 2001 to 2011:

2001 - 99 runners to total percentage 749.6% = 1.511% per runner
2011 - 101 runners to total 758.1% = 1.565% per runner.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.......... all suggest bookies are INCREASING the overround, not reducing it.

Lies, damned lies and statistics.......... all suggest bookies are INCREASING the overround, not reducing it.




Spot on pedrobob.

pedro, lies damn lies and statistics,

why just 1st day royal ascot, why not whole week, why not whole month, why not all summer why not all year?

lies , damn lies, and statistics

alright baz u going to the arsenal spurs game, i heared big frank has been in training...

anyone like to price the rematch up please?

Dead right bd

dont tell me you aint on the hospitality list anymore now you have retired? how fickle are these highstreet books, i suppose u aint much use to me now.....

"them" u have never been any use to me imo...

chose 1 day at random, barry, so agree could be wrong.

Feel free to choose another day of a big meeting and will check it out.

fat man, told ya before, stop hiding.

Try looking at the run of the mill midweek meets,  no figures there

Problem is, pedrobob, in between 2001 and 2011 the formula for calculating SPs was changed.  The declared reason was to make it a better reflection but most think it was to make the SPs better for the off course concerns.  Therefore the overround per runner is not comparable between the 2.

the official sp and the actualy sp are totally different things. the truth is if a horse is 8/1 on the exchange, it will definately be 8/1 on course without commission. especially with the short ones, if a horse is even money on the exchange to £17 for example, it will be even money in the ring and you would get plenty on. punters who want to bet chunky, especially short stuff are missing a trick by betting on the exchange. just remember the show that gets returned to the shops isnt a true reflection of the whole ring

hiding from you BD, hardly u shat it off a 72 year old with 2 new hips....

nothinbutthetruth, you seem to be suggesting that you can get the same price oncourse as you can with the exchanges? And not pay commission? And get plenty on?

You are saying that oncourse are betting to 101%? You are saying that the SP reporters are the biggest lying bunch of ****s known to mankind by sending completely fictitious returns to the shops which are 1.5% smaller on average than they are on course?

I'm sorry, but their does not seem to be much truth in there?

FD,a short tale.BD passing out notes to me at Windsor many moons ago,*$%^*%.

Freddie Williams pre-race had just gone 4s,youve got the 9/2 ****,payout,nice touch ****.

Big Gary-down to ****.No ticket.Post race,no Gary.

Neighbouring joint pays me,minus 2 hog roasts,Gary returns,one for him,one for me.

Take your pick,any one from 3?

wasnot, I don't understand your comment that the formula for calulcating SP has changed?

Surely the returned SP is what it is and so is the total overround, irrelvant how it is derived?

pedrobob

the prices available from bookmakers in the sample at the off are ranked highest to lowest.

Prior to the change the SP was taken as being the price one third down the list now it is taken from half way down the list.

Therefore if thirty bookmaers were in the sample the SP would have been the 10th best price now it is the 15th best which means that on many occassions it will be lower, and nearly always will be less than is available on course at the off.

Thank you uwgs.  Saved me the typing.

Article in the Times, November 2006 'http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/racing/article637039.ece'

http://www timesonline co uk/tol/sport/racing/article637039.ece

So am I correct in saying,the sp being returned,is from books that are betting non standard each way terms,eg 1/6 etc???
So this is why the each way punters have steadily drifted back to the shops!...

cheers, I understand your point that punters getting a better price on-course than off course.
But surely it's the 99.9% off course market that matters, rather than the on-course market (apologies if I have exaggerated the ratio)? It's the off course market that generates the levy, not the on-course market which is paltry in comparison?

And if the off course punter is suffering increased overrounds, that's what counts, no?
As has been pointed out on here earlier, big punters stay at home, and don't go to the track anymore do  they?

Bang on Pedro .. So betting close to and sometimes bigger than the exchange hasn't worked !.. The big money punter stays at home and the each way punter stays in the shop!.. All the on course layers end up paying the price

I think the point being made was that you cannot compare the overrounds from 2001 to the ones in 2011, which is what you were trying to do.

i heard a bookie say once to his mate at carlisle that it was the best overround in the country.it was just a long way to come

agree you can't compare the overrounds on-course according to the new mechamsim you have described.

But you can off-course, because the mechamism for returning prices is irrelevant to the High St punter. He only knows that the overround has increased.

I'm sorry perobob, I don't understand what you are getting at?

pedrobob 21.33 ,
sorry that no one replied to your suggestion.
actually it is correct that on course the price up to 8/1 or so is matched by many but for prices above 10/1 the course price is lower..less than half as much with outsiders..hence you are correct in stating the on course percentage is not 101% , but many bet to 106% or so
and yes , there is not a lot of future in it

wasnot, Michael Harris in the opening article suggested "This free market competition is indeed great news for punters".....

From what has been explained on here, that should read the small minority of on-course punters who adge has just explained can get the same price up to 8/1 as offered by the exchanges.....

But those punters who bet with the off-course chains end up with prices containing increased overrounds compared to 2001 (not as suggested in the Harris article, the other way around) generated from a dodgy SP mechanism

perfectly correct
don't forget that the sp [ what the office punters are left with ] is only what is still available  on the board after the course punters have got there bets on.

Adge,with apologies to others on the thread,is one of the few that can give you a book view.

Too many simplified views about overrounds and books by the new breed of layers.

If I put up a book at 96% to the majority of this forum,will I lose?

If I put up a book at 160% will I win?

The answer to both is dependent on the punter betting on both books,98% betting on the book at 96% wouldnt have a clue,the 2% is a refusal.

The punters betting on the 160% are most welcome but 2% i would still refuse.

Either way the percentage book is only indicative of odds available at the off.It does not mean a book has won 60% or 1%.

Off course punters could not add 2+2 and get 4 so the fractions on SPs are irrelevant in the returns to the VAST majority unless its the last leg of your 7 horse acca.

Barry is just a whinging individual that could not lay a blanket on a bed without moaning.nap[;)]

The punters betting on the 160% are most welcome but 2% i would still refuse.

I don't think you would get an opportunity to refuse the 2%. They wouldn't be knocking on your door at 160%.

Nap pedro,an analogy lost on 98% maybe?[;)]

.... but I get your point

Not trying to knock down punters pedro,sure you have noticed.Far from it btw,fought their corner for too many years than care to think about.


Still doing it as best as I can.

Waste of time for the majority.

what time is andy back on at

THE WAY ISEE IT WITH PEOPLE IS THEY WONT BE HAPPY UNTIL A 6 HORSE RACE THE S.P. IS RETURNED 105%...ALL ON-COURSE BOOKS ARE BETTING PLACE TERMRS ACCORDING TO BETTING SHOPS EXAMPLE 1-5TH THE ODDS 1-2-3 8 HORSE RACE FAVS 1-4 12-1 BAR ......BETTING TO THE BONE ,AND THERES A COMPULSORY GOVERMENT RULING YOU HAVE TO LAY THE PUNTER.....JUST WHOS SUPPOSED TO MAKE MONEY ,WHEN ON HERE THERES A PREMIUM PAYMENT .............ITS A FUNNY OLD WORLD

so cashless ..should the bookie be laying the trade or the genuine punter out for a day at the races?

IN MY TIME IVE SEEN IT COUNTLESS TIMES WHEN THE PUNTER HAS STOOD THERE FOR HIS BET ..THEN A GUY FROM THE BACK SHOUTS OUT A BET AND GETS ON AND THE PUNTER GETS A KNOCK BACK (SORRY MATE DONE IT THERE)MAY BE A FACE KNOWN TO THE BOOK OR MAY BE ABOOKMAKER.....I ASSUME THATS WHAT YOUR TRYING TO IMPLY..........IF IM WRONG BE MORE SPECIFIC

we wonder why punters have stopped coming racing, well there you go they dont stand much chance with the arbours and other books! imo you are their to lay the race going public, the sp returns are supposed to be from the weight of money the public invests.. not other books who want to take the price because its gone on the machine!

very few arbers left and you get asked for a bet by a fellow bookmaker every blue moon!

the books should get the same answer every time go and get it on the machine, lay the punters first and foremost, they might even come back and bet the next race

OAKLANDS THERE MORE THAN ONE OR TWO REASONSS WHY PUNTERS DONT COME ANY MORE THERES A LOT OF CONTRIBUTORY FACTORS...THERE ALL IN THERE IN THERE OWN SORT OF WAY ....WHICH INDIVIDUAL FACTOR REPRESENTS ITS OWN % OF BLAME IN THE DECLINE NOBODY KNOWS BUT THERES A FEW RUNNERS

ABSOLUTELY...rr

some of us do have more integrity , oaklands , and always lay the punter first
always have and always will. no punter ever gets knocked back but arbers / bookmakers often have

the punter should always come first! thats how you build some sort of loyalty

take your point adge.. but the second you are above the machine price.. they the books that is send faces in ive seen it myself! with the punter left standing there! WITH NOTHING

very little loyalty with punters imo, a guy i have seen around for years approached me the other week asked for 7/4 when it was 13/8,laid him (never went price on the machine) and won at 11/8 no prob,a couple of races later asked me if i wanted to lay 10 a 9s chance,i fancied it so declined,he then went to the nearest joint and took 9s so don't kid yourself about punters,the only loyal ones nowadays are the day outers who back a winner with you and then think you are lucky apart from your regulars of course.

Racecourse Regular

Racecourse Regular
27 Sep 11 16:18
Joined:
21 Aug 07
| Topic/replies: 750 | Blogger: Racecourse Regular's blog
the books should get the same answer every time go and get it on the machine, lay the punters first and foremost, they might even come back and bet the next race




Spot o RR. I can't wait to try and place my bet with gymnast. (the cameras will be rolling for youtube purposes)

ribero, loyalty? You cannot be serious? The only loyal punters you may have are losers. (nap)

Adge your integrity is not in question... You say you lay the punter first!... Hand on heart tell us all how many trade bets have you layed on course this year,and how many of them were shorter than on here!... What I'm saying is the minute a price shortens on the machine, everyone follows ... It looks BAD...
Thats when the punter loses out to the trade.

now three Head bangers on the same thread!

Don't be so hard on yourself barnie

if the cap fits,wear it?

Ive seen Adge lay 4000/400 a trade bet earlier in the year .there was 10.5 to 1 available on here but only to pennies.Im sure he would lay a cash customer to the same liabilities and indeed more!

Not many like him though... Good luck to him.

The only loyal punters are lazy ones
Full stop !
Times are a changing

Doesn't mean its good tho

just got back from the football.
yes , i do have a £5000 liability sign up but stewerty b would get on with more if he ever asked

been to ayr today and would defy anybody who could have made a book on any race today ...one price 15 admission and they would be lucky if they had 400 punters in attendance !

got out of the place. i won't be held to ransom and won't risk other's careers
rancid racecourse and management imo 400 is more than they deserve

Soon be paying punters to turn up
Or Towc - & let them in free
Way to go - get the punters in & then fleece them like the old days

Can't really believe bookies still hanging on
Dying breed !
Next Milkmen !

agree totally alan m8 place was like a ghost town (not for the first time) and we pulled down afore the 2nd last rancid is the right word imo... and as for being scotlands premier track id place it sixth and there is only 5 lol !!

& they say Baldy Fred paid over odds ?
What price the Baldy-Mutuel soon ?

Adge is one of the few (there are a few others) who tells it like it is without whinging and moaning.Has Barry gone on holiday?

Laying at Scottish tracks has become less lucrative since.[;)]

Musselburgh books used to be ever so generous.[;)]

They all going redundant !
Dream on - if not
Not the populace to carry on - not the brave book to take on
All ****ing themselves & look,ing for the Arb
God rest the book !

Paddy Mayne
Jimnast. when Stewarty said he could buy or sell me I realised what he does for a living. Check out boy at Tescos. 'Cos that's all it would take!   

I'll have £127-42p cash by the time the Cheltenham Fesival arrives.

Expect a takeover bid.

On Friday night, naturally.

good grief plenty of bitter and twisted x bookies on this thread

I see stewarty is still making a fool out of himself.

2500/1000 @ 6/4   yep - hes a sharp mind alright.

it wont be until after 2 you get a reply

25000k to 10000k. OK I had a laugh. Not many light hearted books on here. As a matter of fact I think I'll take corbie on. He seems to have a decent wedge hidden away. I'me well aware it would be 15000 to 10000, but you have to have a sense of humour.


Because you lot always do when you first price up.....

1.01 landed

Have to grab a few shillings........

do you work SB ?

Corbiewood, I jest not. I retired at 32. (I had very good teacher to whom I am still very grateful to) riberno knows of him.

Ah yes "good teacher" I remember the Shaolin temple

Master Po:  "Stewart what can you hear"

SB: "I can hear the sound of master-bation Master"

Master Po: "Ah yes this will make you fulfilled"

SB: "But Master when will I know I am fulfilled"

Master Po: "When you are as blind as I am"


Good thread lads - some very interesting posts from the on-course boys - good luck to you all

retired at 32 just stays in bed most of the day now

I can take the flak, but trust me, retiring at 32 isn't all it's made out to be. The cholesrerol level goes up and if you're not careful, you will end up like bc.

Actually, I retired at 31. Did my bookie stint for a year, and never looked back.

who is bc

theressomepratsonhere

theressomepratsonhere
28 Sep 11 18:15
Joined:
22 May 05
| Topic/replies: 415 | Blogger: theressomepratsonhere's blog
who is bc




The books on here will be having a laugh at that cracker. (both the post and the forumite.)

lost with me

bernard curren

A legend who bailed out at the right time and still has his 150% books at Kinsley....

heressomepratsonhere, the novice, I can give you his life story if you want????

no thanks andy

imagine  sitting  in  the  pub  with  this  lot   of   planks.      BORING  old  farts  blethering  like  old  hens

what would you like to talk about big boy

your  name  sums  you  up  GAYLORD

your  name  sums  you  up  GAYLORD

good morning to you also

TIT

what r u like when its raining

IM  102  IDONT  GO  OUT  IN  THE RAIN

you sound as though you spend too much time in the house foc , taking the trouble to read and then reply [ of sorts ]on this thread.
any excitement in your life ?

SEE  I'M  BORED  WITH YOU  ALREADY  AWAY  FOR  MY  NAP  BEFORE  RACING  STARTS  FUD

foc
29 Sep 11 10:24
Joined:
09 May 10
| Topic/replies: 22 | Blogger: foc's blog
SEE  I'M  BORED  WITH YOU  ALREADY  AWAY  FOR  MY  NAP  BEFORE  RACING  STARTS  FUD

Was that his wooden leg falling off?