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Sussex Stakes

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Replies: 211
By:
tinkler
When: 19 Jul 11 13:01
If the ground came up real soft then there has to be a chance both will get beat, having got stuck in the mud.
That old dog Dick turpin could have his day in the rain.
I hope the ground is decent as it will spoil the race if its soft and there has to be a possiblity if it gets too soft
Frankel won't run and be saved for the Juddmonte.
By:
grendel
When: 19 Jul 11 13:10
Hannon is also on record as saying Canford Cliffs won't run if its like a road, unlikely but he's concerned about the downhill dip which Hannon says he also didn't like at Newmarket as well as in the sussex last year although winning.
By:
sintonian
When: 19 Jul 11 15:19
Hannon getting his excuses in early. It is slowly dawning on him what a task he has to beat the mighty Frankel.
By:
buddeliea
When: 19 Jul 11 17:12
I imagine if conditions are right then both horses will run.Certainly cannot believe Hannon would pull CC out cos he is scared of Frankel,given the proven form of CC.
Going over 7 furlongs seems reasonable opinion given Frankels last run.
By:
PFtrader
When: 19 Jul 11 17:22
RP
R HANNON has expressed his surprise that Frankel is not dropping down in trip rather than taking on his Canford Cliffs in the Group 1 Qipco Sussex Stakes over a mile at Glorious Goodwood on July 27.

Hannon said: "I thought Frankel may go back to seven furlongs after the way he finished at Ascot in the St James's Palace Stakes but Henry [Cecil] knows exactly what he is doing and his record speaks for itself.

SpLife
Richard Hughes feels the likely small field in the QIPCO Sussex Stakes will be against Frankel.

Richard Hannon's stable-jockey partners Canford Cliffs against the 2000 Guineas winner in the 'Duel On The Downs' and feels a tactical affair will suit his partner better.

"The good thing is my lad is easy and I imagine with only a few runners there won't be much pace at Goodwood which means Frankel will run free," he predicted.

"I would not be surprised if Tom (Queally on Frankel) made the running with only four or so runners - if he drops in, we won't go fast. The start is downhill as well.

"Frankel settled very well at Ascot when we were going a million up the hill - I was on Dubawi Gold, sitting second, and I could not have gone an inch faster, off the bridle. That is why Frankel settled so well at Ascot but, if he was going slow, then he would be keen. If we go slow, he will be free. "

Hughes admits the showdown on Wednesday week is a race he is relishing.

"I cannot wait for the Sussex Stakes. I am looking forward to it just as much as the race against Goldikova at Royal Ascot - we got that job done.

"Canford Cliffs is the best I have ever ridden - I have ridden some good horses in my career but the first time I sat on this lad, I had never ridden anything like him.

"I think Frankel is a brilliant three-year-old - no doubt. I don't think the three-year-olds are brilliant as a whole but he is probably one of the best three-year-olds we have seen for a long time which is why he has stood out.

Hughes feels his partner is still on the upgrade and has few fears over the forecast rain before the meeting.

"Canford Cliffs looks better than ever. I think he is a little bit like Sea The Stars - he will just do what he has to do. He will go by whatever is in front of him. No matter what you follow, he will go by it - you feel he will go by anything. He travelled so easy at Royal Ascot," Hughes said.

"He won a maiden on soft ground - I think he would cope with that ground - most champions do.

"You would like to think that both horses are healthy on the day and there are no excuses - head to head at the furlong pole would be nice to see and then the best horse will win."

Strikes me that the connections of CC are playing mind games early, trying to influence the way they want Frankel to run next week. If they had the nerve to do it, I would hold Frankel up in last place next week, provided he settles, and stalk CC down the straight at Goodwood then we will see who has the better turn of foot. Hughes will want to be the last off the bridle, would be interesting to see Queally play his hand very late.
By:
grendel
When: 19 Jul 11 19:04
Not sure holding Frankel up in a 4 horse race against Canford would be wise, they would want the race to be run at a true pace to benefit fully from the 8lb wfa allowance.  Frankel is fundamentally a better horse based on speed figures than Canford so as long as he doesn't go for home before halfway and not later than 2½ out, I can't see Canford living with him. 

Also with regards to a small field size, the only two times Canford was in small fields of less than 7 runners he got beat, Frankel has won 4 races with less than 7 runners.
By:
buddeliea
When: 19 Jul 11 19:15
Main difference there is the quality of opposition both have faced i would think.

If they try to hold Frankel up i agree with you that would not be wise,but from what i have seen from Frankel this season,i think it unlikely he will settle sufficiently for that to happen with success.They will try and get  Frankel settled in front imo,and if they can do that we are in for a great race,with the best horse on the day prevailing,cos that would suit Canford as well.
Just hope the ground is right for both horses.
By:
PFtrader
When: 19 Jul 11 21:08
Well Frankel won both the 5-runner Royal Lodge and 7-runner Dewhurst coming from last place so I don't see that as a problem next week, provided he doesn't pull for his head early doors. If anything these tactics should allow them to get first run on CC because we know Hughes wants to be sitting with his @rse in the air until the last possible moment.

I think CC is far more one dimensional in his tactics than Frankel and the former's connections are trying to infer that Frankel will only be able settle in front next week to make their job easier. Frankel as we know can win from the front, the middle or the back as demonstrated in his juvenile career and the reality is that the Hannon camp will not know until the stalls open how the race will unfold.
By:
buddeliea
When: 20 Jul 11 06:17
Different kettle of fish this for Frankel.

As you say CC has one way of running,why change anyway when its so effective.

None of us will know till the stalls open how the race will unfold,i suspect Cecil & co amongst them.The Cecil camp may have an advantage in that they know how CC will run,but is their horse good enough?? We shall find out-hopefully!!

All i hope is that both horses perform as best they can,and at the end we can celebrate a great race and a great winner,whoever that may be.
By:
kwoodo
When: 20 Jul 11 08:58
If this would be of level weights I'd have CC but given the allowance Frakel is getting I can't see CC beating him.
By:
sintonian
When: 20 Jul 11 09:56
your absolutley correct PFtrader. Frankels turn of foot is instance and as such he wont bother him how the race is run. He stays the trip standing on his head and he has enough speed to win over 6f.

As for the issue of settling .. something that went largely unnoticed at Ascot due to Tom Quelly kicking for home early, was the fact that before Frankel was asked to sprint, he was actually settled nicely and not pulling one bit. Immediately after the race Henry Cecil sadi '' we now know we can ride him differently''.

Dont be surprised if Frankel is held up for a turn of foot!
By:
tinkler
When: 20 Jul 11 10:37
Ironically the tactics Queally used in the Guineas and certainly at Ascot would be fine at Goodwood.
Theres no steep finish at Goodwood to slow him down and he could kick on 3f out and shoot well clear
,the sectionals he'd then be able to clock for the last 3f would give CC no chance of reeling him in.
If he's drawn aganist the rail and they elect to hold him up , Hughes could box him in on the rail
deliberately not letting go of CC until the last minute.
Queally would be best doing what he did at Ascot, instead he may switch to a new tactic which in this
race may not be suitable.
All the above is not that relevant if the ground comes up soft which given its G/s now is very possible.
By:
grendel
When: 20 Jul 11 11:13
I think the tactics should be a long protracted run for home from halfway for Frankel, Canford will have to make his move much earlier than he has before and will not get any cover that he obviously needs, on ground softer than he's ever experienced, carrying more weight than he's ever carried against the most talented miler for decades.
By:
ocean0201
When: 20 Jul 11 11:45
tinkler
If the ground came up real soft then there has to be a chance both will get beat, having got stuck in the mud.
That old dog Dick turpin could have his day in the rain.

____

interesting tinkler, i was also thinking the same yesterday... will have a small punt on dick turpin
By:
tobermory
When: 20 Jul 11 13:49
Richard Hughes feels the likely small field in the QIPCO Sussex Stakes will be against Frankel.

Richard Hannon's stable-jockey partners Canford Cliffs against the 2000 Guineas winner in the 'Duel On The Downs' and feels a tactical affair will suit his partner better.

"The good thing is my lad is easy and I imagine with only a few runners there won't be much pace at Goodwood which means Frankel will run free," he predicted.

"I would not be surprised if Tom (Queally on Frankel) made the running with only four or so runners - if he drops in, we won't go fast. The start is downhill as well.

"Frankel settled very well at Ascot when we were going a million up the hill - I was on Dubawi Gold, sitting second, and I could not have gone an inch faster, off the bridle. That is why Frankel settled so well at Ascot but, if he was going slow, then he would be keen. If we go slow, he will be free. "

Hughes admits the showdown on Wednesday week is a race he is relishing.

"I cannot wait for the Sussex Stakes. I am looking forward to it just as much as the race against Goldikova at Royal Ascot - we got that job done.

"Canford Cliffs is the best I have ever ridden - I have ridden some good horses in my career but the first time I sat on this lad, I had never ridden anything like him.

"I think Frankel is a brilliant three-year-old - no doubt. I don't think the three-year-olds are brilliant as a whole but he is probably one of the best three-year-olds we have seen for a long time which is why he has stood out.

Hughes feels his partner is still on the upgrade and has few fears over the forecast rain before the meeting.

"Canford Cliffs looks better than ever. I think he is a little bit like Sea The Stars - he will just do what he has to do. He will go by whatever is in front of him. No matter what you follow, he will go by it - you feel he will go by anything. He travelled so easy at Royal Ascot," Hughes said.

"He won a maiden on soft ground - I think he would cope with that ground - most champions do.

"You would like to think that both horses are healthy on the day and there are no excuses - head to head at the furlong pole would be nice to see and then the best horse will win."
By:
buddeliea
When: 20 Jul 11 16:38
Most talented miler for decades??

Talking stops for me now,tad too many OTT comments for my liking.
Gonna Let the horses do the talking now,and see you all after the race.
cheers
By:
sintonian
When: 20 Jul 11 17:47
ooh er missus. Laugh
By:
buddeliea
When: 20 Jul 11 17:52
Laugh
By:
Quincy
When: 21 Jul 11 11:36
Why is the AP market on the Sussex Stakes suspended, any one any idea.
By:
grendel
When: 21 Jul 11 11:58
confirmation of entry stage today at midday
By:
Quincy
When: 21 Jul 11 12:01
thanks, grendel.
By:
tinkler
When: 24 Jul 11 18:39
Frankel's ascot run is a big red herring. He didn't like the Aw type surface up the straight which is worse
when theres some cut. With that run safely ignored his guineas run makes him in a different league to these
and anything but a 1 1/2+ length victory would be a surprise.
Although CC is a very good horse I don't think he's  guaranteed to get second place even. I doubt the tracks
ideal, even though he won here last year.  Zoffany and Dick turpin have every chance of filling second place
with preference going to Zoffany who has a bit of seconditis.
By:
TheFormMan
When: 24 Jul 11 19:31
tut tut tut tinkler,the Frankel and Cliffs to fill the first 2 places in any order is about a billion to 1 odds on shot
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Jul 11 10:59
4 runners.

Who will regret not having a pacemaker ? Hannon or Cecil ?
By:
Far From Trouble
When: 25 Jul 11 11:09
Frankel IS Canford's pacemaker Silly
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Jul 11 11:14
Laugh

Frankel already ordered a 2lb Steak at his local Butchers with a keg of Carlsberg ready for squandering after he slaps Canford all over Sussex.
By:
Far From Trouble
When: 25 Jul 11 11:16
I could not disagree more, Canford will break him in half. Cool

A shame that Sir Henry's flagbearing horse has to lose his unbeaten record this way.
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Jul 11 11:19
Frightening that one of them will be beat. Both beasts.
By:
Far From Trouble
When: 25 Jul 11 11:20
Indeed, just of the opinion that Canford is the Big Buck's of the flat, will catch what's in front of him and just does enough when he gets there

Frankel still a monster though Cool
By:
A_T
When: 25 Jul 11 11:20
Frankel's going to have to lead right from the stalls to win this - that's going to be a very tough ride.
By:
unclepuncle2
When: 25 Jul 11 11:54
sintonian
25 Jul 11 12:19

Frightening that one of them will be beat. Both beasts.


Might be a dead heat or Rajsaman may beat both of them [;)]
By:
Lady Margaret
When: 25 Jul 11 14:55
does Nathaniel's win in the KG show that the WFA allowance will tilt the balance in Frankel's favour?
By:
grendel
When: 25 Jul 11 15:28
We will never know, weight affects different horses differently, but the 8lb is what is meant to bring the average 3yo in late July over a mile up to performing what he would expect to do 5 months later matured.  As the actual weight carried is little different from past runs, its more of whether Canfords extra weight will slow him down but given Canfords running style it shouldn't burden him enough to make a significant difference, the earlier Frankel forces Canford to make his run the likelier the weight will affect him but its a balance between that and jeopardising his own performance.  Frankel setting sail between 4 out and 3 out should be the right balance imo.
By:
TheFormMan
When: 25 Jul 11 17:46
$£$£$£$£$£ FRANKEL £$£$£$£$£$£$Love
By:
EastLower Gooner
When: 25 Jul 11 18:33
Major trend this season towards the classic generation. and its just not here. its happening all over the world. us, canada, UK, france, germany and japan.

quite remarkable really and his form is just getting boosted all over the place.

Got to keep the faith with Frankel. Have my doubts about Canford's win over Goldikova last time....she's 6 for fox sake [smiley:crazy] and the race was not run to suit. Freddie Head always been sceptical about the straight mile at Ascot being to stiff for her and the two pacemakers scorching it only set up for Canford to win as snuggly as he did. Well that was my reading on the race. Even the Lockinge doesnt look all that. Worthadd and Premio Loco....dont make me laugh.
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Jul 11 18:36
It is worth pointing out,imo that CC put in his best performance of his 3yo career this time last year when he beat RVW. He clearly matured as the season went on, I and I fully expect it will be the same with this years 3yo participant, Frankel.
By:
sintonian
When: 25 Jul 11 18:37
* and I Laugh

Frankel .. improving, maturing, with time.
By:
tinkler
When: 25 Jul 11 19:13
Another Gr1 race with hardly any runners, very disappointing.
CC ,rio de la plata and Rajsaman are all hold up horses and not even pressers. It's difficult to see any
other scenario than Frankel making the running. Although it has to be said that Frankel has more pace than
the others so if they went a crawl it would be to his advantage, as long as he settles.
Its possible that if frankel comes out quick he could bolt as he did in the Guineas with Queally being
unable to stop him.
Its going to take something abnormal to happen for Frankel to get beat.
By:
Figgis
When: 25 Jul 11 20:36
Agree with tinkler, very disappointing. Unless we unexpectedly do get a decent pace, or one of the runners wins comprehensively, this hardly looks the champion defining event it promised to be. I'm sure of two things, firstly, if one of the main contenders is beaten narrowly the connections are bound to blame the lack of pace, and secondly, none of the presenters will have the balls to ask them why they didn't have the foresight to run a pacemaker.
By:
Aurelius Maximus
When: 25 Jul 11 20:59
Interesting race, billed up to be the clash between the two superstars Frankel & Canford Cliffs - but I just cant get out of my head the Imperial Commander vs Kauto & Denman and lately Nathanial vs Workforce, St Nicholas Abbey & Rewilding (RIP) scenarios....

So on a pure spoilsport basis im going to take some big prices for Rajsaman & Rio de la Plata who is 4th in the market @ 79/1 on here but I think that he has plenty more going for him than Rajsaman, namely:

1) Course winner (Vintage Stakes as a 2yo)
2) Does his winning at this time of year
3) Trainer hitting form
4) Frankie excellent from the front and could dictate terms
5) Travelled as well as Goldikova & Canford Cliffs at Ascot to the 2f pole before tiring (only 10 days between Queen Anne and the race at Epsom)
6) Why enter him at all if they didnt think he had a squeak?
7) Group 1 winner - Rajsaman is not
8) Does all his winning when has a decent rest in between races

On pure ratings Canford Cliffs & Frankel walk this, but I cant let a 3 x Group 1 winning horse go off at 79/1 - its just way too big
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