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29 Jan 11
20:01
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Williams resigns as Donny CoC...
Williams resigns as Donny CoC...
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Allowing for the wind behind and judging by the round times, I agree that it was no firmer than good, looked to be kicking up a fair bit too.
Mr Tellwrong to RP live reporter: 5:27pm
Anyone's guess
Clerk of the course Kirkland Tellwright admits he is at a loss to know exactly how the track will ride.
"It could be anything," he said.
"But the wind has dried the surface moisture off."
Anyone's guess
Clerk of the course Kirkland Tellwright admits he is at a loss to know exactly how the track will ride.
"It could be anything," he said.
"But the wind has dried the surface moisture off."
Here' we go, top meeting of the year for watchers of the clerks.......
Poking the stick in, quoting the weathergirl, playing to the camera, asking the jockeys/trainers (not the punters who might actually have a pertinent opinion based on times)....
ITS THE SEAMUS SHOW......
Poking the stick in, quoting the weathergirl, playing to the camera, asking the jockeys/trainers (not the punters who might actually have a pertinent opinion based on times)....
ITS THE SEAMUS SHOW......
Buckley in the Racing Post: "I'd love not to water, but might have to." Yeah sure you'd love not to Shamus.
One of the biggest (insert preferred derogatory adjective) in racing, and that's saying something.
One of the biggest (insert preferred derogatory adjective) in racing, and that's saying something.
Nottingham
Watering
Tuesday - 10-15mm applied to home straight.
Wednesday - 10-15mm will be applied to back straight and
both bends.
Blimey
Watering
Tuesday - 10-15mm applied to home straight.
Wednesday - 10-15mm will be applied to back straight and
both bends.
Blimey
Goodwood 29/7/11 - 'Due to drying conditions yesterday there was selective watering last night' - sounds like Seamus doesn't know whereabouts on the course he has watered again. Connections of runners in the Stewards Cup will be tearing their hair out from now to post time...
I bet the highway Masamah followed on Thursday got "selectively watered". For one of the premier racing festivals of the year this level of information is a joke.
bet the wrong side in the stewards, amazing how he doesn't water the dolled off ground all week, but still swore there was no advantage on the final day except the far side may be a touch quicker, if that was a touch I wouldn't like a smack in the mouth from dear old seamus ffs 
Just back from my march around town moor prior to tomorrow's meeting. The grass is long (some going to seed!), which will hide the uneven surface and bare patches to the tv camera. There was a line down the straight from the 7 to the 3 pole (in a line from around stall 14-16) of bare patches some very deep, causing small areas of false ground, which I wouldn't want any horse of mine stepping in at full speed (not that I can afford a horse!).
Again the ground is on the easy side of good and my old doc martins are soaked well above the ankle. However yesterday's report from the clerk lists the ground as gd/fm.
As I pulled the car up at the straight mile today the clerk and his buddy were loping along the straight john cleese style and ramming old walking sticks into the ground every third step or so. I wonder if this is why the clerk's readings and going descriptions are so different to his pre-decessor?
Again the ground is on the easy side of good and my old doc martins are soaked well above the ankle. However yesterday's report from the clerk lists the ground as gd/fm.
As I pulled the car up at the straight mile today the clerk and his buddy were loping along the straight john cleese style and ramming old walking sticks into the ground every third step or so. I wonder if this is why the clerk's readings and going descriptions are so different to his pre-decessor?
Just seen this on the York website:
Going Good to Soft, Soft in Places. Going Stick: 5.4 on Friday 12 August at 3pm
yet, the official going stick readings are:
HEAVY 68 5.5
SOFT 258 6.4
GOOD TO SOFT 581 7.1
GOOD 1165 8.0
GOOD TO FIRM 1538 8.9
Do we believe that York is currently good to soft or go with the official one and say its heavy?
Going Good to Soft, Soft in Places. Going Stick: 5.4 on Friday 12 August at 3pm
yet, the official going stick readings are:
HEAVY 68 5.5
SOFT 258 6.4
GOOD TO SOFT 581 7.1
GOOD 1165 8.0
GOOD TO FIRM 1538 8.9
Do we believe that York is currently good to soft or go with the official one and say its heavy?
I would be interested to know what the time experts think about today's donny ground. One owner of a morning favourite wanted to take his horse out after walking the track, as he thought it was soft. He was convinced by the trainer to keep the horse in, it drifted in the betting, and ran down the field virtually unsighted. Whilst a prominent northern trainer told me he thought the ground was "pretty quick" having walked the course himself.
TM
I'd say the official description was spot on this time.
I'd say the official description was spot on this time.
Thanks figgis. After the 7f handicap there was a succession of announcements about horses running below form, "........ the trainer stated that the horse did not go on the ground, WHICH WAS GOOD". The announcer put huge emphasis on the words in capitals there! Mia's boy was one whose connections put his poor run down to the ground!
From what you describe TM, it could appear that the ground isnt being kept in the condition that is was previously, or is that unfair??
yer man never put the extra yardage up on the BHa site for Donny....could be 57y and 72y as usual...
True Roger, I should have put that up on friday's post too.
Zilzal I think the problem is with "interpretation" being used as the official going description. Donny's new clerk is single handedly screwing up the last few years of donny form, because the ground now has more juice in it and a lower going stick reading, for any given description than previously. He's been consistent, that's about the only good thing I can say about him.
The turf will probably improve again when the grass is cut and some air can get to the bare patches which are currently causing some false ground patches.
Zilzal I think the problem is with "interpretation" being used as the official going description. Donny's new clerk is single handedly screwing up the last few years of donny form, because the ground now has more juice in it and a lower going stick reading, for any given description than previously. He's been consistent, that's about the only good thing I can say about him.
The turf will probably improve again when the grass is cut and some air can get to the bare patches which are currently causing some false ground patches.
What we are up against.........
Assistant clerk of the course Anthea Morshead said: "We've had a lovely day, it has tightened up a little bit. We changed it to good, good to soft in places after the fourth race partly on times and also on what the jockeys were saying.
"The jockeys reported it was slightly on thedead side so it's still on the slow side of good. The forecast for this evening from around 10pm until the small hours of the morning we are looking at a couple of [millimetres] of rain. Then tomorrow is dry and so is Saturday - part cloud, part sunny spells."
She added: "From a forecast point of view that will be perfect because it will stop it drying out too quick and hold the ground for two days.
"If we don't get the rain it will dry up a bit quicker and we should lose the dead to it. A couple of [millimetres] of rain wouldn't do it any harm by just freshening it a bit."
Good to Soft ground and Anthea wants rain because it will stop it drying out too quick? It explains the state of mind, if nothing else.
Assistant clerk of the course Anthea Morshead said: "We've had a lovely day, it has tightened up a little bit. We changed it to good, good to soft in places after the fourth race partly on times and also on what the jockeys were saying.
"The jockeys reported it was slightly on thedead side so it's still on the slow side of good. The forecast for this evening from around 10pm until the small hours of the morning we are looking at a couple of [millimetres] of rain. Then tomorrow is dry and so is Saturday - part cloud, part sunny spells."
She added: "From a forecast point of view that will be perfect because it will stop it drying out too quick and hold the ground for two days.
"If we don't get the rain it will dry up a bit quicker and we should lose the dead to it. A couple of [millimetres] of rain wouldn't do it any harm by just freshening it a bit."
Good to Soft ground and Anthea wants rain because it will stop it drying out too quick? It explains the state of mind, if nothing else.
Tom Segal described York ground as a total mess. Mark Johnston has now backed up these comments, saying it's a mess because of overwatering. William Derby says "it wasn't watered." Maybe not in the days leading up to the meeting, but it has been overwatered for years and Derby is now reaping what he has sown. As Johnston pointed out, however, the bookmakers must be delighted at the unpredictability of results there.
I agree with Johnston, but maybe he should look to his fellow trainers, who were whinging like hell when York produced ground no worse than good to firm for a meeting last year.
The track as not been watered since early June 2011!
and so to goodwood this weekend with plenty of rain in this area we can look forward to a quagmire and if the rain doesnt materialise.....................seamus and his trusty watering system will guarantee a quagmire 
just to add to the silliness the COC at leicester was almost in tears on ATR at the prospect of racing on good/firm this afternoon
'Let going be firm if necessary' - Tompkins
BY RICHARD BIRCH 11:36AM 23 AUG 2011
MARK TOMPKINS on Monday argued that watering should be adopted by racetracks only to "grow grass, not to change the ground", as the row over York's racing surface continued to rage.
The Newmarket trainer, a native Yorkshireman and great supporter of racing on the Knavesmire, said: "I love the place, but you had only to watch the races last week to know that something is not right. The jockeys don't know whether to go stands side, down the middle or up the far rail, where they used to go.
"It's a general problem at many racecourses in Britain that has been caused by over watering during a period of years. This debate should be all about watering - not just York."
Tompkins shares the views of fellow trainer Mark Johnston, a high-profile critic of the going produced at York's Ebor meeting last week.
Tompkins said: "I've talked to Mark about it and he feels that watering is altering the tracks. That's the big problem we've got.
"There's no evidence that firm ground produces injuries to Flat horses. I remember the days when the going at Brighton was always firm, hard in places, during the summer and most horses came back absolutely fine.
"Letit be firm if necessary. It's ridiculous that clerks of the course are asked to produce good ground all the time. The only time you see 'firm' in the going description nowadays is at Bath, where they have no watering system. Clerks should water only to grow grass, not to change the ground."
The BHA provides a policy guide that recommends clerks should aim to produce good to firm going for Flat races and good ground over jumps.
Let nature take its course imo,about time this problem was addressed.Good to see a few trainers having a go now.
BY RICHARD BIRCH 11:36AM 23 AUG 2011
MARK TOMPKINS on Monday argued that watering should be adopted by racetracks only to "grow grass, not to change the ground", as the row over York's racing surface continued to rage.
The Newmarket trainer, a native Yorkshireman and great supporter of racing on the Knavesmire, said: "I love the place, but you had only to watch the races last week to know that something is not right. The jockeys don't know whether to go stands side, down the middle or up the far rail, where they used to go.
"It's a general problem at many racecourses in Britain that has been caused by over watering during a period of years. This debate should be all about watering - not just York."
Tompkins shares the views of fellow trainer Mark Johnston, a high-profile critic of the going produced at York's Ebor meeting last week.
Tompkins said: "I've talked to Mark about it and he feels that watering is altering the tracks. That's the big problem we've got.
"There's no evidence that firm ground produces injuries to Flat horses. I remember the days when the going at Brighton was always firm, hard in places, during the summer and most horses came back absolutely fine.
"Letit be firm if necessary. It's ridiculous that clerks of the course are asked to produce good ground all the time. The only time you see 'firm' in the going description nowadays is at Bath, where they have no watering system. Clerks should water only to grow grass, not to change the ground."
The BHA provides a policy guide that recommends clerks should aim to produce good to firm going for Flat races and good ground over jumps.
Let nature take its course imo,about time this problem was addressed.Good to see a few trainers having a go now.
This blows up from time to time and then usually goes quiet and all the BHA will do is sit and wait it out as usual, after sending in Paul Struthers to put a dead bat on it!!
Think Richard Hughe's column is telling with Overwatering and ridges being mentioned quite often, funny how racing ever survived in years gone past without wholesale carnage
Think Richard Hughe's column is telling with Overwatering and ridges being mentioned quite often, funny how racing ever survived in years gone past without wholesale carnage
Pitiful that they still refuse to address this now that even (notoriously slow) racing professionals are noticing what we've been predicting for 3 years is actually happening....
Then again, why would the BHA want predictable results, or even results that give the punter a chance in hell with GPT as the funding mechanism for the sport (& more importantly, their pensions)?
Then again, why would the BHA want predictable results, or even results that give the punter a chance in hell with GPT as the funding mechanism for the sport (& more importantly, their pensions)?
Has anyone read R.Hughts article in the RP today? Well worth a read, especially his views on courses on page 9. He writes a good (albeit short) article on the debate that has been raging with the going at York.
He Says it's like driving a car with no grip on the tyres! He also poins out that the racecourse was built on marshland, which in his opinion must be a factor. (something I never knew)
Anyways he then goes on to rate several other courses as those who read his column will know. His views on (15) Chester, (14) Lingfield and (12) Newmarket Rowley Mile are particulary interesting imo.
He Says it's like driving a car with no grip on the tyres! He also poins out that the racecourse was built on marshland, which in his opinion must be a factor. (something I never knew)
Anyways he then goes on to rate several other courses as those who read his column will know. His views on (15) Chester, (14) Lingfield and (12) Newmarket Rowley Mile are particulary interesting imo.
Quite true, if a few years late...
The Guide that Jonjo and myself would write would probably be unprintable
The Guide that Jonjo and myself would write would probably be unprintable
didnt get the Post today, any chance of puuting up Hughesys comments? cheers.
Roger, I only type with one finger and it would take me quite a while to post. However, if no-one else can oblige I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Ed Gretton leaving his post as CoC at Chester (and Bangor) at the end of the season.
cheers stewarty sounds like an interesting piece.
Roger, his main piece on page 8 was about the great work that the unsung heroes of the day do......the valets. I's a whole page and too much to post. (I did try the RP website, but to no avail)
On page nine he also 'tipped up' Dubawi Gold and Libranno yesterday. (a bit late I know but I never backed them anyways)
As for the rest, as it's bank holiday, mrs stew has kindly agreed to type it for me and will be along shortly!
On page nine he also 'tipped up' Dubawi Gold and Libranno yesterday. (a bit late I know but I never backed them anyways)
As for the rest, as it's bank holiday, mrs stew has kindly agreed to type it for me and will be along shortly!
YORK GROUND
"A DEBATE has been raging around the ground at York-here's what I think.
I've always found York's surface to be different from anywhere else.
Some horses act there but I find riding a horse at York is like driving a car with no grip on the tyres. The wheels are constantly spinning underneath you. They have done wonderful jobs on the racing surfaces at Ascot and Doncaster in recent years, but whatever work has been carried out at York has not had the same effect and the problems have worsened.
Having said that, I don't want to knock York as it is built on marshland, which must be a factor. I would also rather be riding a horse with its wheels spinning if it's running in a £70,000 race at York than in a £2,500 race somewhere else"
"A DEBATE has been raging around the ground at York-here's what I think.
I've always found York's surface to be different from anywhere else.
Some horses act there but I find riding a horse at York is like driving a car with no grip on the tyres. The wheels are constantly spinning underneath you. They have done wonderful jobs on the racing surfaces at Ascot and Doncaster in recent years, but whatever work has been carried out at York has not had the same effect and the problems have worsened.
Having said that, I don't want to knock York as it is built on marshland, which must be a factor. I would also rather be riding a horse with its wheels spinning if it's running in a £70,000 race at York than in a £2,500 race somewhere else"
15) Chester
A fabulous racecourse with a superb atmosphere but sadly I only seem to get up for the May meeting, which I thoroughly enjoy, particularly in the 2 years that I won the Chester Cup!
What I don't enjoy is having three rides at Chester and finding them all drawn ten or higher, because you know straightaway you've got next to no chance of winning.
A fabulous racecourse with a superb atmosphere but sadly I only seem to get up for the May meeting, which I thoroughly enjoy, particularly in the 2 years that I won the Chester Cup!
What I don't enjoy is having three rides at Chester and finding them all drawn ten or higher, because you know straightaway you've got next to no chance of winning.
14)Lingfield
You would struggle to find a more friendly place and the food in the weighing room is superb. I still don't know the best way to ride the all-weather track but I'm adamant that the theory about the centre of the home straight being quicker is rubbish.
The horses in front when turning for home invariably stop and because it is such a short straight you don't have time to overcome trouble in running, so jockeys tend to switch to the outer just to guarantee a clear run. Those will be the ones finishing best, which makes people think that the centre of the track is fastest. It's not.
I'm afraid I can't stand the turf track. The draw advantage on the straight course is enormous and I'd rather go back to school than ride on the round course, which can make for a very hair-raising experience.
You would struggle to find a more friendly place and the food in the weighing room is superb. I still don't know the best way to ride the all-weather track but I'm adamant that the theory about the centre of the home straight being quicker is rubbish.
The horses in front when turning for home invariably stop and because it is such a short straight you don't have time to overcome trouble in running, so jockeys tend to switch to the outer just to guarantee a clear run. Those will be the ones finishing best, which makes people think that the centre of the track is fastest. It's not.
I'm afraid I can't stand the turf track. The draw advantage on the straight course is enormous and I'd rather go back to school than ride on the round course, which can make for a very hair-raising experience.
12) Newmarket Rowley Mile
Some will be surprised it's not in my top ten and no-one looks forward to the Craven and Guineas meetings more than me, but I become blue in the face from telling owners that their horse didn't handle the Dip.
Watering has led to the ridges at the quickest part of the track becoming horrendously bad and if you were to ride a motorbike down the racecourse you would defininitely leave the ground.
I feel strongly that something should be done to improve things from the three-and-a-half-furlong point to the pole. It could all be rectified in one year because the track is wide enough to be divided into two with half sorted out one year and the other half the following year.
Some will be surprised it's not in my top ten and no-one looks forward to the Craven and Guineas meetings more than me, but I become blue in the face from telling owners that their horse didn't handle the Dip.
Watering has led to the ridges at the quickest part of the track becoming horrendously bad and if you were to ride a motorbike down the racecourse you would defininitely leave the ground.
I feel strongly that something should be done to improve things from the three-and-a-half-furlong point to the pole. It could all be rectified in one year because the track is wide enough to be divided into two with half sorted out one year and the other half the following year.
HUGHESIE'S HOTTIE (at your own peril!)
Silenzionever came off the bridle at Windsor last time and would have won but for repeatedly being blocked. It has taken us a few runs to discover that 6f is his best trip and in a handicap over that distance at Goodwood on Tuesday he should win.
Silenzionever came off the bridle at Windsor last time and would have won but for repeatedly being blocked. It has taken us a few runs to discover that 6f is his best trip and in a handicap over that distance at Goodwood on Tuesday he should win.
Roger, I hope you managed to catch the last three posts!
Anyways, I'm not punting today so I thought I would post this one for you.
11) Sandown
"Some jokeys excel around here but it's not one of my favourites as I find it to be very hard on horses. Sandown do a good job with their watering but we've ended up with a lot of soft ground there this year, which leads to jockeys coming stands' side up the straight, which I detest and consider unnecssary. You also get some funny results on the sprint track, which I feel has deteriorated".
PS As for Silenzio, you're probably aware it's not running today and there are no entries for it on the RP website, so I don't know the score there.
Pity, because I might have backed it blind with the seconditis I'm suffering at the moment!!
Anyways, I'm not punting today so I thought I would post this one for you.
11) Sandown
"Some jokeys excel around here but it's not one of my favourites as I find it to be very hard on horses. Sandown do a good job with their watering but we've ended up with a lot of soft ground there this year, which leads to jockeys coming stands' side up the straight, which I detest and consider unnecssary. You also get some funny results on the sprint track, which I feel has deteriorated".
PS As for Silenzio, you're probably aware it's not running today and there are no entries for it on the RP website, so I don't know the score there.
Pity, because I might have backed it blind with the seconditis I'm suffering at the moment!!
cheers stewartyb, just seen them now, great stuff.
good to see one of the top boys saying it as it is, no holding back. The inside at Lingfield is not the slowest down the home straight, that's a bold statement, would need a look at some stats first.
Roger, he gives his top ten on saturday. Remember your RP! [;)]
Goodwood his number one??? Mind you it is a personal choice.
"I do think I have the secret of mastering the place"
"I do think I have the secret of mastering the place"
i would put Goodwood up higher if Seamus wasnt so unclear about his rail movements.
The comment from Hughes about Goodwood that really caught my eye was ,
' Goodwood is also watered better than any other track in Britain.'
' Goodwood is also watered better than any other track in Britain.'
Dear William Derby
Whichever way you dress it up if jockeys bring the horses to the outside rail on a turning track there is something WRONG.
Whichever way you dress it up if jockeys bring the horses to the outside rail on a turning track there is something WRONG.
The radius of the south bend at york sends the horse and jockey to the middle of the straight! Wherever the jockeys wish to go then is their choice. Today again proved that there is no golden highway at York and it is consistent from rail to rail.
I walk my dog most days on the knavesmire and feel the track has come in for some unfair criticism of late, due to a certain trainer who's record at the course this season is quiet poor to say the least.
I walk my dog most days on the knavesmire and feel the track has come in for some unfair criticism of late, due to a certain trainer who's record at the course this season is quiet poor to say the least.
Just back from the track at Donny. The grass has been trimmed to ankle height and it's being rolled at the moment. The surface is much improved over the last few weeks and there is a good covering of grass. I'd say the going at the moment is just on the fast side of good.
We're forecast for wet and windy weather over the next few days. There has only been 1mm of rain in my bucket over the weekend, and the clerk says he has no plans to water. I'd guess he'll be quite happy with a bit of rain over the next few days and unless we get an unexpected deluge we certainly won't have soft ground for the Leger.
We're forecast for wet and windy weather over the next few days. There has only been 1mm of rain in my bucket over the weekend, and the clerk says he has no plans to water. I'd guess he'll be quite happy with a bit of rain over the next few days and unless we get an unexpected deluge we certainly won't have soft ground for the Leger.
cheers for that update town moor, where would you guess the fastest ground up the straight is?
For me it was even all across, as I think it has been for most of the season.
oh and it pissed down just afte I typed the above! I'll the check the bucket later on and walk the track again tomorrow.
Judging by his stick readings this term id wait until after the 1st couple of races
GF has been anything from the mid 8s to 6.4?????
GF has been anything from the mid 8s to 6.4?????
"The radius of the south bend at York sends the horse and jockey to the middle of the straight "
mmm
Didn't seem to send them to the middle of the track ALL THE TIME until recently.
As for Johnston he is far from a lone voice. Plenty of trainers and jockeys are critical.
mmm
Didn't seem to send them to the middle of the track ALL THE TIME until recently.
As for Johnston he is far from a lone voice. Plenty of trainers and jockeys are critical.
Just back from the track at Donny. I'd say the clerk's current description of ground being a shade faster than good is correct at the moment, we couldn't detect any bias on the straight track. Plenty of rain up above but the very strong wind has blown it away all day (apart from one shower) and may continue to do so. Wind forecast to be strong again tomorrow from the west, which means the front runners and near side will take the brunt of it on the straight track, until the final furlong when they get some cover from the stand.
If you could stick the bucket out tonight id be grateful, fancy a couple tomorrow on quicker ground
The bucket is staying out. Showers forecast I'd expect the ground to be closer to good than good/firm.
cheers TM, wouldnt want much for my nags(West Leake Hare and Black Spirit)
the met office forecast just updated and now has heavy rain showers forecast from 1pm tomorrow. always seems to happen when i place a few bets based on fast ground
Think i'll wait as well Stevie, its been changeable for a while depending on forecasters
Ignore the times on the straight course when assessing the ground as the headwind will slow them up.
Overnight we have had 3mm of rain in my bucket at donny, and it's still raining now with grey skies. The gail force wind has dropped to a breeze. Forecast showers to continue.
mmm
Didn't seem to send them to the middle of the track ALL THE TIME until recently.
As for Johnston he is far from a lone voice. Plenty of trainers and jockeys are critical.
mmm,
because maybe it is consistent across the width of the track???
3 trainers of which 2 are always moaning about watering, and one stated last may folowing loads of non runners has the track was allegedly too firm and the track had been over drained!!!
1 jockey made some comments in hes article in the racing post.
following over 340 runners over the 4 days of the Ebor meeting on ground that ranged from good to soft to good and of which the race times backed the going description up on each day, what more do some people want? especially following higher than average rainfall in the lead up to the meeting.
I tend to agree with Greg Woods article in the Guardian, and comments by Richard Fahey and Paul Hanagan on this one.
Sour Grapes
Didn't seem to send them to the middle of the track ALL THE TIME until recently.
As for Johnston he is far from a lone voice. Plenty of trainers and jockeys are critical.
mmm,
because maybe it is consistent across the width of the track???
3 trainers of which 2 are always moaning about watering, and one stated last may folowing loads of non runners has the track was allegedly too firm and the track had been over drained!!!
1 jockey made some comments in hes article in the racing post.
following over 340 runners over the 4 days of the Ebor meeting on ground that ranged from good to soft to good and of which the race times backed the going description up on each day, what more do some people want? especially following higher than average rainfall in the lead up to the meeting.
I tend to agree with Greg Woods article in the Guardian, and comments by Richard Fahey and Paul Hanagan on this one.
Sour Grapes
And its not just York, Donny this week on the straight course have been doing the same, why when given a rail to race against, do jockeys consistently treat this as if crocodiles reside there
Take Newmarkets July meeting, it took Brae Hill to tell them something
Take Newmarkets July meeting, it took Brae Hill to tell them something
not sure on that one Zil, since i can remember(not very long ago) the Middle/Stand as been the jockeys chosen route, although as stated, i think they are beginning to use the far side more this season than ever before, hence the comments from messers Johnstone/Segal.
surely it is better for all concerned that the full width of the track is consistent?
surely it is better for all concerned that the full width of the track is consistent?
Zilzal we've had gale force wind on wednesday and yesterday was still pretty windy, they were looking for cover. We still have a headwind today but it's more of a breeze.
Surely if it is consistent the whole way across then during a festival it would change towards the end of a meeting as it would be nearly virgin ground, a la Royal Ascot
the near rail at donny has been avoided this week, even with the stalls where they are
the near rail at donny has been avoided this week, even with the stalls where they are
possibly it is slower ground there but alot will depend where the front runners are drawn, if they are low then they will stay centre with the rest in behind getting cover or if no wind then to get a tow into the race
by 3rd/4th day of a festival like the ebor you would think that they would want to look for the fresher ground,by then maybe the jockeys have made their mind up on where they are going to go? or maybe when the ground is on the easier side and the track has been repaired from the previous days racing and is starting to dry out, there is not that much of a difference in surface conditions?
Going stick readings in the straight over the four days were consistent as well.
Going stick readings in the straight over the four days were consistent as well.
If you take Goodwood 7f and mile form there is a bias, but its really magnified on Tote Mile day when the fresh ground is opened up.
This is always a chain of thought that suggests it could be unrelated, i read Hughes's comment about some jocks racing in the centre because of the bans that were being dished out.
Stick readings can differ on who actually uses the device as alluded to be some in the industry
This is always a chain of thought that suggests it could be unrelated, i read Hughes's comment about some jocks racing in the centre because of the bans that were being dished out.
Stick readings can differ on who actually uses the device as alluded to be some in the industry
stewarty b
29 Aug 11 13:43
Joined:
02 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 3,005 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog
HUGHESIE'S HOTTIE (at your own peril!)
Silenzionever came off the bridle at Windsor last time and would have won but for repeatedly being blocked. It has taken us a few runs to discover that 6f is his best trip and in a handicap over that distance at Goodwood on Tuesday he should win.
It's his 'hottie' again this week and now runs at Folkstone on tuesday for anyone that's interested.
Personally, I'm more interested on how much jonjo managed to get on the Gosden beast yesterday. [;)]
29 Aug 11 13:43
Joined:
02 Aug 02
| Topic/replies: 3,005 | Blogger: stewarty b's blog
HUGHESIE'S HOTTIE (at your own peril!)
Silenzionever came off the bridle at Windsor last time and would have won but for repeatedly being blocked. It has taken us a few runs to discover that 6f is his best trip and in a handicap over that distance at Goodwood on Tuesday he should win.
It's his 'hottie' again this week and now runs at Folkstone on tuesday for anyone that's interested.
Personally, I'm more interested on how much jonjo managed to get on the Gosden beast yesterday. [;)]
"The radius of the south bend at york sends the horse and jockey to the middle of the straight"
sorry to join the discussion so late but I attended the ebor festival every year and always remember the runners hugging the inside rail coming round the bend into the straight.
(I stopped going this year when they turned it into a saturday drunkfest)
maybe that bend now throws horses out into the centre of the course because the poor horses can't get any purchase on the loose topsoil because of all the overwatering that takes place now, and they have no option but to go wider into the straight to avoid slipping up on the turf that's moving underneath them.
the worst ebor meeting I can remember for jockeys searching all over the course for decent ground.
sorry to join the discussion so late but I attended the ebor festival every year and always remember the runners hugging the inside rail coming round the bend into the straight.
(I stopped going this year when they turned it into a saturday drunkfest)
maybe that bend now throws horses out into the centre of the course because the poor horses can't get any purchase on the loose topsoil because of all the overwatering that takes place now, and they have no option but to go wider into the straight to avoid slipping up on the turf that's moving underneath them.
the worst ebor meeting I can remember for jockeys searching all over the course for decent ground.
Another runner from the Johnstone stable!!
If I recall last year jockeys could not wait to get stand side to the so called "golden highway"(Tom segals words).
Overwatering? The course as stated they have not needed to water since June, looking at rainfall figures for the area I can see why!
Poor horses? How many slipped?
Looking at previous posts on this topic, you guys request for honest goings for given racedays. Following analysis of going/times of each race for each day of the ebor using racing post timings, this time the clerk of the course as called it correct!
When attending the races at York on the 4th of september I couldn't help but notice Mark johnstons form at York this season?
If I recall last year jockeys could not wait to get stand side to the so called "golden highway"(Tom segals words).
Overwatering? The course as stated they have not needed to water since June, looking at rainfall figures for the area I can see why!
Poor horses? How many slipped?
Looking at previous posts on this topic, you guys request for honest goings for given racedays. Following analysis of going/times of each race for each day of the ebor using racing post timings, this time the clerk of the course as called it correct!
When attending the races at York on the 4th of september I couldn't help but notice Mark johnstons form at York this season?
Newbury rail movement today. Rail not moved since last meeting, so + 6 metres round course. Rails were standard last meeting 13th August.....
AYR - Flat (Updated:17/09/2011 at 06:15:34)
Going
Soft,Heavy in Places
(GoingStick: 7.9 SPRINT COURSE: Far side-; Centre-; Stands'
side- on Saturday at 06:00)
How the f is the going stick reading 7.9 on soft/heavy !!!!!
Going
Soft,Heavy in Places
(GoingStick: 7.9 SPRINT COURSE: Far side-; Centre-; Stands'
side- on Saturday at 06:00)
How the f is the going stick reading 7.9 on soft/heavy !!!!!
last year same clerk and readings up to 10.2 stands side when ground just fast side of good on times. However go back 2 years with different clerk and readings much much lower. it's a big load of carp that stick, time to design a new device.
Leicester on Monday have watered down to g/f, good in places. Going Stick 7.3. They were g/f, firm in places yesterday.
Silenzio wins again. Who is this enigma who goes by the name of Hannon??? (I wasn't on.....again...)
Who is this enigma who goes by the name of Hannon??? (I wasn't on.....again...)
Anthea Morshead best clerk in the country, what a load of **********.
Zil, could you please confirm to me that this thread has been transfered to twitter/facebook. I've never been on any of these sites and is anyone welcome?
When I say thread, I mean Clerkwatch.
A link would be appreciated, if it's not private.
When I say thread, I mean Clerkwatch.
A link would be appreciated, if it's not private.
Nah Stewart we did have one on Facebook(dont know if its still there tbh) not a lot of incidents this year and people losing interest tbh
The report of 15th July in the RP just really reiterated what weve been saying on here since 2008 Stew, namely it can matter who is using the stick when readings are taken
Many thanks for the reply Zil. I know nothing about twitter/facebook, but if it means giving out personal details, I wouldn't be too keen as I am plagued with spam E.Mails, texts, letters and phone calls.
I know for a fact someone has sold on my personal details, and I'm guessing it's a rogue ex BF employee.
Thanks again.
I know for a fact someone has sold on my personal details, and I'm guessing it's a rogue ex BF employee.
Thanks again.
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