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dwm767
11 Dec 10 13:29
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Date Joined: 07 May 06
| Topic/replies: 731 | Blogger: dwm767's blog
Ladbrokes gone 2/1 Master Minded for the Champion Chase, non runner money back!!! Madness!?

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Replies: 267
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Dec 10 13:30
why??
By:
Joist
When: 11 Dec 10 14:19
I was just checking some Festival markets and expected Master Minded to be around evens, was also quite suprised at the 2/1 on offer.
By:
Teddy Sheringham
When: 11 Dec 10 14:26
evens ??!!  have you forgotton about big zeb?
By:
Swardean
When: 11 Dec 10 14:39
Even with Big ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzz

2/1 is more than a fair price.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Dec 10 14:45
its an awful price at this stage with BZ about.
By:
buddeliea
When: 11 Dec 10 14:45
keep backing though
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 14:58
Big Zeb and Captain Cee Bee are the only other good 2 mile chasers. Master Minded beat tree's today.

Zeb still wins this.
By:
MOUNT CLERIGO
When: 11 Dec 10 15:49
back Big Zeb NRNB at 4's with laddies then morons.  the original forum note is correct, with a NRNB 2/1 is a overpriced. fact
By:
Joist
When: 11 Dec 10 15:56
Big Zeb not fit to lick Master Minded's hoof when MM is in the form that his last 2 runs suggest.
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 16:19
More confirmation this forum is down the toilet.
By:
red and white
When: 11 Dec 10 16:28
Was very impressed by Fehily today. Obviously a very able deputy for Ruby.
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 17:15
FFS last years champion chase was woeful. 1st big i cant jump zeb 2nd forpadythe2ndplacedplodder 3rd kalahari king 4th a master minded who had problems all year long and in general a terrible campaign.

these horses could not live with the real master minded. he is the best 2 miler of all time.
By:
Teddy Sheringham
When: 11 Dec 10 17:20
no bias at all from you then
By:
GoBallistic
When: 11 Dec 10 17:29
I'd be happy to lay at 2-1 on the day and anything shorter would be just a bonus. They can patch him up to win when he's relatively fresh but I would think that when he has more on his plate his frailties will re-appear
By:
Joist
When: 11 Dec 10 17:33
CV, while I agree the forum gets more tripe by the day, what piece of form of Big Zeb's shows that he could live with a top-of-his-game Master Minded?
If the forum is getting worse, it's because of stupid, snide little comments like that, rather than the offering of an opinion.

Masterminded (the poster)- you seem to have forgotten Moscow Flyer Happy
By:
Mr Eboue
When: 11 Dec 10 17:42
''Best 2 miler of all time''

LaughLaughLaughLaugh
By:
Steeplechasing
When: 11 Dec 10 18:06
Once again plenty style from MM but not much substance beating the usual suspects.  Petit Robin got closer too him today than in his two previous defeats.
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 18:24
The thing is all you hear about is petit robin guavain somersby before the race. Then after everyone asks what he has beat? If you don't like the horse fair enough but you can't knock his form one bit. He literally jumped last years Ryanair winner into the ground at Ascot. I will admit that he is my fav. chaser and I am really biased but he is one of if not the greatest all time 2 mile chasers and that's a fact. I do acknowledge how good Moscow Flyer was but Master Minded has already achieved what he did at the age of 7. I don't know what else he has to do at 2 miles to prove he is any better tbh.
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 18:26
People calling others morons, is what I was referring to, not your comment Joist.

Big Zeb showed he was better than Master Minded at Punchestown last year. And Big Zeb is a very good jumper. I don't see why he can't retain his crown.

Master Minded looks great beating tree's like he did today and at Ascot. He's faced Big Zeb three times and not once has he confirmed himself superior in my view.

While Captain Cee Bee either wins or busts a blood vessel. That's the story of his career to day. He's a live danger.

I have Zeb and Cee Bee backed and a covering bet on Master Minded. I can't see the winner coming from outside that group.
By:
kavvie
When: 11 Dec 10 18:46
in fairness master minded wasnt right last year with his breathing etc.paul nicholls said as much after todays race.2/1 nrnb to my mind is seriously good value.big zeb isnt as good as him if both were at their peak.cee bee is about 10l back.(my opinion.)
By:
dwm767
When: 11 Dec 10 18:52
Haha, CVByrne you're hilerous!! All you do is skulk around threads moaning!! Fair play to you fella, you obviously love it too much to just post on some other site!!
By:
Steeplechasing
When: 11 Dec 10 18:54
We''re told that MM wasn't right in the two races where BZ completed against him (moral victory in the first and a clear one in the 2nd).

BZ has the best form of any horse MM has met - I don't think it any coincidence then that he has given MM the sternest tests of his career
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 18:56
I just post my opinions, pr@ts like you are what have ruined this once good forum.
By:
kavvie
When: 11 Dec 10 18:56
good point .but if mm is back to 09 levels or close no horse will live with him.again my opinion!!
By:
dwm767
When: 11 Dec 10 19:05
Haha, what do you think everyone else is doing!? Posting their opinions!! You're problem is you're trapped half a mile up your own arse, and the arse of that bunch who used to knock about on here with their endless sectional times and statistics s**t! Pub chat, that's what im all about...no offence anyone on here but your opinions aint going to tell me where my money goes! Dunno why you take it so seriously mate!
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 19:13
BZ will lob along beating trees in Ireland all year and will probably get beaten by Golden Silver in one or two when Mullins fancies it. If he ran in the Tingle Creek I'm pretty certain he would have been beaten very cosily. I'm not going to knock a Cheltenham festival champion in Big Zeb but for me he is not in the same class as an in form MM. Ok he won the Queen Mother well last year but that is the best he has ever ran over here and has only beaten a good yard stick in pady IMO. And this moral victory he had is a load of balls. He didn't win. He made an absolute mess of the fence and Master Minded was coming to the end of his arguably long season where he had been demolishing horses out of sight.
By:
Steeplechasing
When: 11 Dec 10 19:28
MM, the horses he 'demolished' were a past-it Well Chief, Petit Robin (by twice as far as he did today), and Tidal Bay: 3 races hardly made up a long season, especially given the facile manner of his victories.

The real demolition was the job Big Zeb made of the last fence at Punchestown and I doubt there's an objective observer around who doesn't believe BZ would have beaten MM that day given a clean jump at the last.
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 19:35
He arguably idled Grin
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 19:36
Exctly Steeple, Zeb has some engine and will love the fast ground he'll get at Cheltenham. Master Minded has faced him 3 times and not once has he proven himself the superior horse. I think people need to give Zeb the credit he deserves.

Master Minded looked perfectly fine when hammering the field in the Game Spirit but then gets tonked by Big Zeb in the Champ Chase. How is his hammering of equally rubbish fields like today any different?

He won't face either of his main two rivals until March so these 2/1 quotes are too short.
By:
sintonian
When: 11 Dec 10 19:44
Petit Robin is always at his best when fresh, though. His record suggests as much, and he was fresh today.

The race in Ireland was after the Festival, Big Zeb was a fresher horse and entitled to go close,imo.

Horses getting beat or not running to their best after the festival is not uncommon, witness Menorah and General Miller last season at Aintree,imo.

Both top class horses however,, MM shades it for me.
By:
MOUNT CLERIGO
When: 11 Dec 10 19:45
CV, i take it back, clearly you are not a moron.

however, you have suggested that you think the 2/1 about MM is a poor price; yet now you are saying you have backed BZ & CaptCB and have had a cover on stakes on MM.

do you noe think the quote of 2/1 is Right? or wrong?  You seem to be making a massive contradiction here. (too short yet backing it)
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 19:47
Petit Robin, Well Chief, Tidal Bay. All good horses in there own right and I would rate Well Chief well above Big Zeb and beat him by a fair way in last years Tingle Creek when he must have been (on your observations) well past it?
By:
Joist
When: 11 Dec 10 19:48
Fair enough CV, my mistake. Happy

However, to use that Punchestown form as some sort of positive for Big Zeb, when MM actually beat him, is odd to me. Punchestown Festival form is notoriously dodgy and while Big Zeb is clearly a lovely horse in his own right, MM has been very good at Ascot and today, jumping like absolute lightning and travelling supremely which is a good pointer to the idea that he's back in top form. Therefore, I just can't see Big Zeb being able to serve it up to MM if MM gets there in top form.
By:
MOUNT CLERIGO
When: 11 Dec 10 19:48
FYI "Moron" is defined as a "a person who is lacking in good judgment" on dictionary dot com and as this is a matter of opinions i don't think i went that far!
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 20:00
Mount Clerigo, I backed Captain Cee Bee after his Arkle loss. I backed Big Zeb and put my covering bet on Master Minded weeks ago.

If I thought Master Minded was a better bet I would have put my main bet on him. But given I think the winner can only come from those three the covering bet on MM made sense. I'd be amazed if I lose money in this race.

Sizing Europe going back over 2miles is the only spanner in the works.
By:
CVByrne
When: 11 Dec 10 20:03
Do you not take my point that Master Minded looked every bit this good when winning the Game Spirit earlier this year, then he went and got tonked by Big Zeb in the Champion Chase. Why is his impressive victories this season over equally poor fields and different?
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 20:05
Do you think Master Minded ran his race in the champion chase last year?
By:
Steeplechasing
When: 11 Dec 10 20:05
I would rate Well Chief well above Big Zeb and beat him by a fair way in last years Tingle Creek when he must have been (on your observations) well past it?

Big Zeb put in an appalling round of jumping that day when well Chief was off a rating of 163 - the highest since his comeback and the highest rating MM has beaten him off, more than a stone below his best rating.

You can, if you choose, rate WC 'well above' BZ though I doubt many would agree with you.  The handicapper has BZ 17lbs superior.
By:
Masterminded
When: 11 Dec 10 20:06
season*
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