CHAMPION HURDLE 2011

bout time we had a thread for this, it's only 9 months away you know!

Am a huge Peddler's fan too, let's just hope he and the likes of Bin and The Fly turn up in one piece

Todays champion hurdler was impressive or else it was bad judgement from the jockies behind

That's an understatement Rip. We have an early discussion thread for people to put their thoughts on so it's not been completely ignored
Have a couple lined up at big prices but waiting for better prices, I expect the shorties price's to go into overdrive when the season begins and people get over excited!

Go Native worth another chance imo.

if you fancy peddlers cross for the champion then do yourself a favour and have a good antepost double. peddlers for the champion and reve de sivola for the world hurdle. the neptunes hurdle form is rock solid and reve de sivola is the most genuine stamina laden novice hurdle ive seen for a while. never ran over 3 miles yet but i cant wait for it!!

Is Reve not going chasing?

I know pilot and trainer both think Peddlers Cross has a great chance in the Champion Hurdle. The 2010 Supreme doesn't look a great race - so he is probably the only novice who can bridge the gap - will be interesting to see what their prep route is

I had been waiting to see where peddlers cross was going before putting down my hard earned.

I have also taken the 25/1 on offer at VC - the next biggest is 20/1 but it is a general 16/1 shot - the price wont last long, thanks for pointing out the ATR interview - I had missed it :)

Harchibald, imo

Count me in as well.

I was under the impression that Peddlers would have a run over hurdles in the autumn and then a decision would be made as to whether to go chasing.
Question is where to run?
My guess is theyl aim at the Greatwood and if all goes well take in the Haydock Champion Hurdle Trial en route to Cheltenham

Did you see the interview with D McCain ?

No such thing was mentioned. He defined the target as the CHAMPION HURDLE. It is all geared to that. He ruled out, when specifically asked, any campaign over fences.

Horse to be trained and aimed at CH ...

Caught a bit of the interview and and must have missed the part where he was so certain of the plan.
After Cheltenham i no for sure my previous post was what the trainer said.

I must admit I find views on markets such as this fascinating.
I will ask on this thread similar questions I asked on a thread concerning Crack Away Jack and the Arkle last year.

1:What odds would you put on Peddlers Cross not actually being able to run in the race due to fitness/injury etc?
2: What odds you then put on him not running in the race?
3: Then assuming he runs, the odds on the day?
4: What do you want as a return for your money whilst it is invested in the "Ante Post" market?

I do not mean this as an argument, I am fascinated to see the views of long term AP punters, pure and simple.

1. 1/4 to avoid injury.
2. 1/2 to choose this race rather than the Arkle.
3. 7/1 on the day.
4. Not a factor for me, AP bank is not for earning interest.

So 1/4, 1/2, 7/1 = 14/1 which makes the 25/1 a decent price.

DD That's a good answer - correct yes.

I'd also suggest that a 3.84% chance of winning (25/1) is no indication of the horses chance on the day which I would have down at 10% at least should he get there ...

Equimine - re point 4 ...

If you enjoy your racing, punting etc then the expectation of watching one for some 9 months is also worth paying for ...

The 'investment' is all the cheaper as I made a few quid at the weekend and took it out of that - this is the psychology of how I've looked at it anyway ...

good price, not nippy enough to handle a peak form Binocular imo, but deffo a fair bet at a pony

I'm in

Thanks for your answers.
DD, is your 1/4 to avoid injury based upon the length of time to the race in general, or is it about Peddler's Cross in particular?

1/4 is my wholly unscientifc "gut feeling" of the likelihood of a fancied runner, with no previous injury/fitness issues, turning up sound at what is sure to be his main target.

For horses with previous fitness issues or those coming from certain Irish stables where Punchestown may be the plan the chances of showing up will of course be far less certain.

Decided I'm going to chip away at Peddlers over the coming months. 20s taken.

good idea downallstar
been doing the same since end of march :D

Im gutted. I titally agree with everything and have been saying this since he won at Cheltenham (even though I wasnt on). That said I didnt back him because I was unsure of his target. Now that I know his target ive missed the price[>o]

Ill probably wait a month now and hope he drifts again on here and get involved then.

GL

whatever about Peddlars AP and AP double is complete madness

25/1 still there

I'm joining in, just had a couple of units win only 25/1 with VC.

abbot has that 25's all now gone ?

WTF IS ALL THIS ABOUT ?

Stark contrast to what he said about it on ATR WHERE HE STATED CHAMPION HURLDE IS TARGET AND NO TO FENCES

someone talking tall here - believe what he said on telly as opposed to this journo's story ...

McCAIN: PEDDLERS PLANS UP IN THE AIR

By Keith Hamer, Press Association Sport

Champion Hurdle. Click here to bet.
Peddlers Cross (IRE) Profile
D McCain Jnr Profile
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Peddlers Cross is likely to go back into training in about a fortnight to begin preparations for what promises to be another exciting campaign.

The five-year-old has yet to taste defeat and proved himself to be a top-class novice hurdler winning at Cheltenham, where he accounted for subsequent Punchestown scorer Reve De Sivola and Rite Of Passage, who lifted the Gold Cup at Royal Ascot.

Peddlers Cross is seen as a potential chaser, but trainer Donald McCain confirmed he still intends to run his star over hurdles first time out next season.

"He'll be back in the next couple of weeks. He's out now in the paddock next to the yard," the Cholmondeley trainer told At The Races.

"I've no inclination to run him on the Flat at the moment - he's more a cross-country chaser than a Flat horse.

"It was only his first proper season in training last season, so we'll be sticking to the job we know.

"Whether he goes chasing next winter or not we still don't know. He's still only five and there's plenty of years left in him. We just want to do it right. We are going to play it by ear from the first half next winter.

"His form has stacked up in all different codes, probably as solid as any novice hurdler in the country.

"I've said all along that I would have thought his first run back will be over hurdles somewhere, even if he were to go chasing, to see if we can cope at that level and then see.

"It's early days and it will be a long time before we are worrying about where we run him."

No reason to worry Harch although a squiggle should be attached to future statements from DM.

If Peddlers has the ability to be a serious CH contender he will presumably show an appropraite level of form in his hurdles debut. If that is the case it is hard to see him being immediately switched to fences. The only reason for this would be if he patently disappoints over hurdles - so really it doesnt make too much differnece to our AP bets on him.

DD thanks mate I'd be inclined to agree with you - the marked difference in sentiment from this article vs. Chapman in the booth - who got him to clearly state the horses plans and target - are quite a gulf apart.

Perhaps DM after a price as well ? He was mega enthusiastic about the horse and the gears he has.

On another note, do you think next month too early to resume for a campaign geared at the CH ?

Nicky always leaves his late ...

"... next couple of weeks"

Probably means November!

THIS HORSE HAS JUST BECOME A LUMP JOB GIVEN OVERTURN'S PERFORMANCE THERE

The layers love you guys !!

You'd make him bigger than 25's ?

Well if you think tieing money up for 9 months on a horse that you would want 16-1 about getting to post in The champion hurdle is a good and wise move then it must be for you

How far does Harchibald win the Champion Hurdle by please?

The layers are not father Xmas ! Will keep putting cash up for you all !! What for !!!

People think if a trainer says "KK" then lump on ..Millie Chief !!!!!!

Polly have you ever had a successful antepost bet ?

Strange you point out the vagaries of antepost betting, and there are many, on an antepost betting forum .... ?

Yes honey i have and we all love a 20-1 shot that goes off at 2-1..But since looking at the flip side its so easy making money puting some some money up for horses like peddlers/and soo many more..Y dont bookies like telling you how much is in the bag via ante post bets..

Hey sorry you are right i should leave the ante post threads alone and let you dream of many winners that will never go to post

polly you talk some right sh1te...how come a backer wouldn't tie up money for 9 months but a layer would tie up 20x as much for 9 months pmsl!!

ps if you're so certain he's a non runner/ non winner etc I've left 50 quid up at 25s...I look forward to you laying it for me...cheers

N6 you are one of the thick/inadequate/ fools that love telling people they are w****** or talk **** !Only of course on a computer !!! I have enough on peddler at 22s and will leave someone else to match you money..Bye brave boy

wally...sorry polly...as usual all mouth and no f in trousers...its still there cnut lay it shut your f in mouth

ps re the only on computers wd love to meet up sometime and have a little chat...cnut

[smiley:crazy]

I go away for 10days and this forum is reduced to idle threats from keyboard warriors !!!!

captain chris

I've backed Hurricane Fly for the last two Cheltenham's and haven't had a run for my money yet.  I'm on again for the Champion Hurdle at 14's and I'm praying he turns up!!  A very risky bet with his injury record, but its one I'm prepared to take.

He's definitely got the speed and his win at Punchestown against Solwhit shows he likes a battle.  Willie Mullins says he is the best hurdler he has ever trained, and that's good enough for me.

Come on the Fly!!!

Not original but having been against him all last year, the way Binocular won last time created a lasting impression - as good some of the opposition is, I'm struggling to see past him just now.

same here wellchief, big fan of the fly, lost ap bets the last two years too. But 3rd times the charm, I hope we at least get the Binocular Fly matchup everyone wants to see.

Only just seen this thread and thank God that is the case.  I love the Fly - was in Auteuil the day he won and rang a mate of mine after to tell him I had seen the next coming - he said he fell in love with thim the day at Punchestown a month earlier!
This horse is special - so is Binocular however - I have never done as much ante post dough as I have done on the Fly, I guess absence makes the heart grow fonder!
Every time i think he is vulnerable to Binocular I go back to Punchestown this year, look at his legs/feet quicken in the last 100 yards, it is visually amazing.  Plus Townend is just class, he is not Ruby yet, but aint far off.
The position is building for March, will be better value in November/December given the way Mullins campaigns his beasts, but here is hoping!

Binocular will win it again. Classiest 2 miler around.

Christmas 2008, the way he flew away from Go Native after the last at Leopardstown. I thought, holy crap this is some horse. Couldn't get it out of my head for the rest of the day. Mind he has cost me some ap vouchers since then. But I was at punchestown a few months ago (pink shirt, gery suit and all) at the winning post and let me tell you, it was some celebration. Balls deep I was on him that day. They are the moments which make this sport so amazing.

Here's to Hurricane Fly, taking the mantle of my favourite horse held by kings such as Istabraq, Moscow Flyer and Kauto Star before him.

Hello CV.  Istabraq was good but not great imo.  Fortunate to be around with the poorest bunch of hurdlers of the past 30 years.

r

CV was very proud of that pink shirt/grey suit combo

BOLD statement there steeplechase very bold.... horse is a legend to many racing folk, take a good horse to win a champion hurdle but a great horse to win 3 (should have been 4 cnut in foot and mouth!)

Istabraq was a great, Charlie Swan could do whatever he wanted on him.

Istabraq was a very good horse but not a great one, imo.  I know that is sacrilege to many of his admirers, but many of those he beat were dire by champion hurdle standards.

We talk of Kauto Star as a great horse - and some would even argue with that - he has achieved an official rating of 193 at his 'best' (again, I know that can be argued about), the best Istabraq could make was 176 - 5lbs superior to the likes of Rooster Booster. Hardle entitled to be called great.

Name a better 2 mile hurdler than Istabraq..

Hey Steeple, I'd concur with you on Istabraq not facing much opposition, I still love him though. Istabraq started it, but Moscow, he's the one who really took me deep in love with this sport.

And Gunny I did love that Pink Shirt Grey Suit combo, man that was some day. Unlike Gold Cup day, pain that'll never go away.

seeyou then

Not a golden era Istabraqs, he could still be the best though.Never know will we,my fav fwiw.

How you doing CV??

Name a better 2 mile hurdler than Istabraq..

HATTON'S GRACE
SIR KEN
PERSIAN WAR
NIGHT NURSE
MONKSFIELD
SEA PIGEON
GOLDEN CYGNET
and, probably . . .
BINOCULAR

Hey bud, how's things? I've been busying myself with the world cup and tennis. I backed Holland pre tournament but gonna lay out of that now, Spain are good.

Still be awhile before the racing starts up again. I always have the Old Roan Chase as the start of the season. Be awhile yet.

I think we'll stay opposed in the Champion Hurdle again this season. Binocular and The Fly. I wonder what Biodiesels thoughts are on Hurricane Fly beating Solwhit at Punchestown :D

Oh and Istabraq, for my money the best 2m hurdler I've seen. Though I never saw Sea Pigeon, Monksfield etc..

Steeple.. IMO Istabraq is the best hurdler I have seen. A lot of those horses you named were before my time so I can not comment on those. I ask this question though. Why are people constantly looking for the new Istabraq when it comes to Champion Hurdler's?

Because he dominated the devision totally. The new Istabraq would be a horse to do similarly

binocular is the new istabraq

they have sorted out it doesnt travel

Steeple.. IMO Istabraq is the best hurdler I have seen. A lot of those horses you named were before my time so I can not comment on those.

Fair enough MM.  They were superb horses.  The era of Night Nurse, Monksfield and Sea Pigeon is generally known as the Golden Age of hurdling.  Much of 'hero worship' is generational, but I hope you can take a look at some footage of these horses - Night Nurse and Monksfield's dead heat at Aintree  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X2Ai77voXE

I always try to be objective when assessing horses, but there has never been an era like the late 70s in hurdling.

Can't have See You Then Steeplechasing - I worship the Henderson yard and it was a great training feat but the horse was too fragile and not raced enough in a season for me to top Istabraq.

Binocular - still plenty to prove although could be remembered in the same breath in years to come.

Golden Cygnet - Would have to prove he trained on surely ? Breathtaking in his novice victory but it doesn't always follow on that the Champion awaited on more than one occasion.

The bulk of yours were in that golden age so I accept there was some real quality in there, whilst Sir Ken and Persian War were before my time.

Istabraq did beat some ordinary opposition but 12 lengths first time, and then on the bridle twice - he was a real stylish horse with some substance too.

Hello CAP.  I did not mention See You Then.  As for Golden Cygnet, short though his career was, there is no question in my mind he was a great horse.  The following extract from Wikipedia might make you reconsider: (I was at Ayr on the day in question)

The Scottish Champion Hurdle represented a huge step up in class. Up until now, Golden Cygnet had been taking on fellow novices and he had shown himself to be in a different league. At Ayr he was taking on very experienced hurdlers of the highest class who were well capable of exposing any ****s he might have in his armour. On top of that, it was a handicap. In most years a Cheltenham winning novice could be expected to receive 14 lbs or more in weight from his more experienced rivals, especially from the likes of Night Nurse, the Champion Hurdler in 1976 & 1977 and Sea Pigeon who was to go on and win the Champion Hurdle in 1980 & 1981. However, the handicapper paid Golden Cygnet the huge compliment of allotting him 11st-13 lbs which was 5 lbs more than dual champion Night Nurse, 7 lbs more than Beacon Light, who had been fourth in the Champion Hurdle the previous month and 12 lbs more than Decent Fellow, winner of the Irish Sweeps Handicap Hurdle under 11-4. The only horse set to carry more weight than him was Sea Pigeon who was asked to carry only 1 lb more having finished a close second to Monksfield in the previous month's Champion Hurdle. In allowing him to take his chance at this level and at these weights, it showed just how highly Edward O'Grady rated him - and his assessment proved to be extremely accurate.

The race went according to plan most of the way. Having been held up early, Golden Cygnet moved into third place as they came to the second last hurdle. Approaching the final flight, he moved alongside Night Nurse travelling very strongly and looked an assured winner when for some unknown reason he just did not lift his front legs and crashed through the flight, somersaulting on his head before hitting the ground with a tremendous thud. Luckily, Niall Madden was thrown clear before the horse landed on him. Sea Pigeon went on to win the race, catching Night Nurse close home. "I was cantering on him," said Madden. "Still cruising. He had jumped brilliantly, never touched a hurdle. And then for some reason he stood off a bit too far at the last and he just clipped the top of it and came down on his neck." Racing's most respected judges 'Timeform' stated in their 1977/1978 Annual:

    "The race confirmed two important points - that Sea Pigeon had no superior among the established hurdlers apart from Monksfield, and that all the superlatives heaped on Golden Cygnet had been justified........Golden Cygnet appeared to have plenty left, and was two lengths up on Sea Pigeon and about to take the lead from Night Nurse when he suffered his fatal fall. Judging by the way Golden Cygnet finished in his previous races, he would have taken some catching........The connections of Sea Pigeon did not dispute the general feeling afterwards that Golden Cygnet would have beaten Sea Pigeon in the Scottish Champion Hurdle if he had not come to grief at the last. And for a novice to have defeated a seasoned campaigner of Sea Pigeon's calibre at a difference of only 1 lb would have been a staggering achievement."

Very few people were inclined to disagree, including the compilers of the form book whose comment was (7/4 JF, waited with, improved approaching 2 out, quickened between last two, disputed & looked winner when fell last

CV,
on Spain/Villa combined from the start,wont be laying off so fingers crossed.

Looks like its BIN v THE FLY for us this season,lets hope Hurricane stays sound mate.

Great popst Steeplechasing

Last season's top novice Peddlers Cross could make his seasonal debut in the WBX.COM Fighting Fifth Hurdle at Newcastle.

Trainer Donald McCain maintains his unbeaten six-year-old will stay over the smaller obstacles for his first start of the season before connections decide whether or not to send him chasing later in the campaign.

"He's back in now and has thrived during the summer. It's a long road back but we're on that road now. His first run back is more than likely to be over hurdles and then we will decide what route we go down," McCain told At The Races.

"It would be no surprise to see me run him in one of the good two-mile hurdle races first somewhere, maybe something like the Fighting Fifth and see where we go.

"We will see how his training goes and make a decision from there. I would rather underdo him trip-wise first, rather than overdo him."

Peddlers Cross won all his five starts for McCain last term, including victories at the Cheltenham and Aintree Festivals.

So far so good then

From what I've read he is more impressive than Overturn this PEDDLERS CROSS guys ....

Calling:
harchibald
Bravado
Dark Destroyer
Steeplechasing
downallstar
gutfeeling
abbott
n6
and anybody else who joined in

everybody got their 25/1 Peddlers Cross slips handy?

9 months since this thread was started, how do you feel now? Nobody laying off I hope, what about savers on another horse though? Oh and an sleepless night ahead for pollybournemouth who has layed Peddlers Beast at 22.

mine says 23,and not layed off a penny.
come on PC!!