Clerkwatch 2010

Those stick readings weren't much use at ascot today. they suggested once again the centre would be quickest but clearly wasn't. At least this time I totally ignored them

27, 28 & 29 fill the first three places in the 95k 7f handicap...
My own selection, drawn 1 was beaten fully 4f out...

It wouldnt have won on a level playing field, but it would have been nice to have one......

forget about the Racing Post getting things right on their website. Many days this year the rail movements from the BHA site were not put up on the results section on the Post. Nobodys interested in doing their job properly these days, just the brown envelope.

Be careful about the going stick reading from Market Rasen for Sunday...

Currently says,,,

MARKET RASEN - Jump (Updated:25/09/2010 at 10:01)   

Going
Good, Good to Soft in places
(GoingStick: Hurdle: 6.5, Chase: 6.9 on Sunday at 10:00)

Going Stick reading is actually from today - Saturday...

IT MAYBE UPDATED TOMORROW...but who knows....

jonjo...not sure that it was necessarily the Going Stick readings that were inaccurate. imo it was the Official going for the straight course - which probably was 'Good'.Not sure what u think?

It cant have been soft on the round course either with the principals well nutting the standard in the QE11

looking at those times I'd be guessing there are possibly slower bits early on in the straight track and then faster for the last 3f.
On the map of course there isn't any difference, the soft patches are by the 10f start.

It's not an easy track to work out the ground based on times with the round course and straight often riding so differently, and as standards are based on previous runnings at this track whicj often rides so differently can we really trust the times either.

don't expect Musselburgh to reveal details about the effect of their rail movements, that would be too logical. Rail on both bends & back straight to be moved out 2-3 metres. I#m still waiting to hear from them the effect of moveing the bottom bend 2 metres on the 3rd Sept. Might get back to me before the start of the 2011 Flat....

with the going stick being 0.5 pts higher on both the straight and round course today then presuming no more rain you'd have to be looking at good ground at worst.

No rain as such yet Stevie, few dark clouds around but not threatening

what did you make of that Frankel yesterday zil?
Looked one of the best 2yo performances i've seen for a few years.

Looked Arazi like to me, although im not on at all for the classics and wont be at those prices, there is a possibility that he just is so mature and far ahead of anything else. I thought it quite telling that Henry was at pains to say that he's the best 2yo since Wollow and was a bit cautious about the Derby.

Lets all hope the hype is correct as this sport needs champions

Newcastle:
17-Jul-09 Heavy 5.1
27-Jun-09 Soft 6.5

Today we have 4.7 and they are claiming soft (heavy in places). I have never seen a stick reading so low for the flat.

Actually Newcastle are currently;
GoingStick: TBC soon on Wednesday at 11:00)

Last published reading was 4.7 and it was raining at the time.

Have THEY got to Andy!!??

Hi Mugbil - Not got to me yet - a lot to report and update based on discussions with Racing Post / BHA / Turftrax.

Will provide an update tomorrow.

The game's still afoot.....but i'll soon be on the ignored list.

four point anything is virtually unraceable imo.......Newcastle went 'heavy in places' on mainly 'soft' ground ffs......They were finishing strung out like sodding washing over 6f......

A good example today, where the punter needs to be kept informed of the going...so what do we get on the official BHA going reports.

Salisbury - NO GOING STICK READING and a Going of Soft...more like a muddy mess up there...more like Soft to Heavy imo....

Nottingham - Going stick reading at 07:00 this morning - rain....and I believe three changes of going, during the day (Good(Good to Firm) to Good to Soft (Good in Places) and Soft). Take a reading nearer to the time of the first race!!!

Newcastle - Going Soft (Heavy in Places), although everyone else had it as heavy. Going Stick Reading TBC on Wednesday. Oh well, I suppose they didn't say which Wednesday!!

KEPT INFORMED AS USUAL!!!!

And they wonder why our punting pound is going elsewhere.

Even taking punters out of the equation, it's a poor show for connections when the clerk of the course cannot be bothered to update vital information.

Was the stick reading so low it would have meant calling the meeting off as it was unraceable? We will never know as he didn;t bother giving any reading.

(re: Newcastle)

but muqbil you are forgetting one vital point here...

His / Her cup of tea would go cold if they had to go and take another reading!!

racing post have changed the ascot races on friday to Good to soft now

Going Reports for Racing on Saturday, 2nd October

EPSOM DOWNS (Updated: 8:24) Soft, Heavy in Places
  (GoingStick: Overall 6.6 Home Straight Stands Side 6.8, Far Side
  6.3 on Saturday at 08:00)
  Stalls: 1m 4f - centre
  Stalls: Remainder - inside
  Dolled out up to 4 yards from 6f to Winning post, adding
  approximately 5 yards to race distances.
  Just under 13mm rain Friday. Further light rain may reach area
  late afternoon Saturday.

Fontwell Park (Updated: 6:49) Good to Soft, Soft in places
  (GoingStick: 6.2 on Saturday at 06:30)
  Bottom bend divided.
  Rail mvt adding Ch 12yds/circ and Hur 35yds/circ
  32mm rain yesterday.
  F'cast Bright and sunny morning then clouding over during the
  afternoon. Some rain about but not until after racing.

NEWMARKET (Updated: 6:59) Soft
  (GoingStick: Updated going stick reading by 10.30am on Saturday
  at 00:00)
  Stalls: Far Side Course
  Stalls: 12f Centre
  Stalls: Remainder Far Side
  8mm of rain on Friday
  Saturday Mainly dry with sunny spells

REDCAR (Updated: 6:27) Good to Soft
  (GoingStick: 7.8 on Thursday at 07:30)
  Stalls: Straight Course - Stands Side
  Stalls: Round Course - Inside Rail
  Rainfall of 8 mm up to 8.30 pm on Friday evening, no further
  rainfall since and a dry forecast for Saturday

WOLVERHAMPTON (Updated: 14:23, 25th Sep) Standard
  Stalls: 7f 32 yds outside; remainder inside
  Acting Clerk of the Course Roderick Duncan

Newmarket update on Turftrax



Newmarket    02 October    01 - 02 October   
Soft    Average: 6.7
Stand side: 6.6
Centre: 6.6
Far side: 6.7

If racing goes ahead at Ponte, I can't see anything other than heavy being the true going. Never seen rainfall like it today in the area.

Going stick reading at Pontefract is highly suspicious.

7.1 yesterday
17mm of rain
Still 7.1

Soft, Good to Soft in places (GoingStick: 7.1 on Monday at 06:30)
Soft, Good to Soft in places (GoingStick: 7.1 on Sunday at 11:15)
Good to soft, Good in places (GoingStick: 7.1 on Saturday at 08:30)

Sat
13mm rain Friday. Dry and bright on Saturday with further rain on Sunday. Currently forecast to be dry and bright on Monday. It is likely that the going will ease further over the weekend.

Sun
12mm overnight up to 11.30am. 5mm to 10mm predicted up to 2pm, clearing by 4pm. No further rain thereafter. Dry and sunny on Monday. Course currently raceable - confident we should be ok if the forecast is correct.

Mon:
17mm in total on Sunday. Monday is forecast to be dry, bright and sunny.

Perhaps the whole going / going stick shambles has made me this way, but I fail to see how, after so much rain over the weekend, the going stick reading has never changed from 7.1

doesn't make sense at all muqbil, I would have been expecting below 6 at least. I'll still be looking for soft ground horses despite what the stick says.

Ponte bought that stick from Aldi.

In fairness, time was no worse than Good to soft for the 2yo maiden @ Ponte.

Warwick also seems no where near Heavy?


No worries with all this bullx tomorrow on the fibresand.

this person apparently wants to help us all with going reports

http://community.betfair.com/horse_racing/go/thread/view/94102/25994125/Inventor_asks:_do_you_want_more_information_on_track_conditions_

2010-10-06 16:03:00    HEAVY (GoingStick: 3.7 on Wednesday at 16:00)

Don't remember seeing a 3.7 before on the flat!!

At Ayr that would be 7.5

WOSPO That was in the last Era of "Lifeboat Lil" Emma Marley seems to be doing a lot better as the readings this year would suggest

Roger Charlton on today's Ascot ground:
 
Never heard so many jockeys complaining about the ground after that race at Ascot.The turf is coming off as if someone put it on 2mins ago

INFO  FROM  THE  BHA

Following an inspection by the Clerk of the Course and the British Horseracing Authority Inspectorate, the mile races scheduled to take place at Salisbury on Monday, October 11th have been abandoned.

Jeremy Martin, Clerk of the Course at Salisbury said, "After 110mm (4½ inches) of rainfall in the last 10 days there are significant areas of waterlogging after the 1 mile start. The prospect of these areas drying in time is extremely remote, particularly with the likelihood of more rain later in the week. Consequently, we have taken the decision to abandon the mile races and add two new races over seven furlongs. Maximum field sizes for all races on Monday 11th October will be 12, as the Stands' side of the course will also need to be railed off."

sorry, I know the above news is originally from 4th Oct, but it was only when I saw that Bath (where they don't water), is good to soft, and a few miles away at Salisbury (where they do water), the ground is waterlogged.

Thought I was going to Huntingdon tomorrow (12/10/10) to watch my horse have his first run over fences, but had a call from my trainer to say that he is not happy with the way they overwater there.

My horse likes good ground and trainer said he would have risked him over hurdles but the last time he sent a chaser there, they finished up dolling off a couple of fences because it was unsafe with horses slipping on take off and landing.

As trainer says, season is only beginning and it would be stupid to risk an injury there when there are other places to race.
Hopefully there are no serious injuries tomorrow and that they see sense in the future.

3.7

Just for those who are not aware. Newmarket race on the far side course on Friday with the stalls Centre  but switch sat to the stands side with the stalls also stands side.

So dont get thinking that fridays draw bias will be significant when it comes to sats punting

ttt

i wish more tracks would do a Kempton and sand over the turf sh****, i cant wait for the turf to end.

Stands side seem to be favoured today however will have no bearing for tommorrow.

It's frustrating when a fancy is ridden down the middle or at least away from the rail when every man, woman, child knows the rails is faster.

roffle, you just knew that was going to happen.

I was on Golden Desert

ul, zil.

Might have won keeping hard against the stands rail?

I agree with Roger, get fibresand chucked down at HQ :)

05-Oct-10    Soft (Good to Soft in places)    7.2
18-Sep-10    Good to Firm (Firm in places)    9.1
25-Aug-10    Good to Firm (Good in places)    8.9 on Tuesday at 14:00
13-Aug-10    Good (Good to Firm in places)    8.7
03-Aug-10    Good to Firm (Good in places)    8.4
21-Jul-10    Good to Soft (Good in places)    7.5
14-Jul-10    Good (Good to Firm in places)    8.1

Readings for Catterick this year, latest going report good(good to soft) reading 8.3

The post have still got fridays reading up for saturdays card at HQ, the stick is reading 7,5 according to Turftrax and the BHA

TURFTRAX :-
15-Oct-10 Good Friday: 7.8 (Stand side 7.7
Centre 7.8
Far Side 8.0)
Saturday: 7.5 on Friday at 11am

BHA :-
Good
(GoingStick: 7.8 (Stand side 7.7, Centre 7.8, Far Side 8.0) on
Friday at 11:00)

Makes no sense, zil?


That's a bloody good sprint at Catterick.

Muq, they are using stands side course tomorrow, hasnt been used for a while


Whats the weather like up in Yorkshire?? That going stick reading isnt near good to soft

I was meaning, I thought the turftrax site always reflected what showed on the BHA site. The whole thing is a mess as Andy was finding out, different readings all over the place. I have just realised I was reading Fridays entry ffs!

I am a good few miles south of Catterick and we are parched right now, still watering my Dahlias!

Catterick:-
Good, Good to Soft in places
(GoingStick: 8.3 on Friday at 14:00)

03-Aug-10 Good to Firm (Good in places)  8.4

04-Aug-09 Good (Good to Firm in places) 8.4

Just leaves us more confused than ever[smiley:crazy]

Has Andy been kidnapped????

You think he might have had a brush with a sharp tipped umbrella[:(]

Nothing for a couple of weeks!!

He's either on Holiday or under the foundations of a flyover

He was a enthusiastic poster and hasn't been seen since 29th September

Catterick stick reading gone down 0.3 and they haven't had a drop of rain. I am starting to think the stick is an absolute waste of time or not being used; a) at all, b) properly.

Fingers crossed for no rain until after 3-25

The Fahey thing is becoming so well handicapped

I reckon they will split, a stands side group lead by Favourite Girl. That York run for your one was massive, better at 6 but a truly run 5 like the York race perfect. I'm thinking now though he might just let him run his race without going mad today. Starts 2011 on a mark of 91/92 straight into the same two 5f races at York wins the first, up 5 or 6 still in with a fighting weight for the 25k pot end of May.....If only it were so easy :(

Pavershooz is going to smash up one day soon but the yard are in shocking form. Whoever had the buttons on Hazelrigg @ 7-1 have done ok, possibly not racing on the best ground lto and a bit too far off the pace.

gl today m8, Saturdays don't come much better, right through 'til 9 bells :)

Did you back him today, zilzal?

Cover blown now, in every notebook globally!

I had the 16-1 ew Muq, placed osses all over the place, Debussy, Oceans, I love me

but no winners, slight loss on the day but no fezzant tonight

ul m8 :(

Soon be proper racing 7 days a week, zilzal. High time you enjoyed a trip up t' A1 to Southwell? Ricky and myself still meet up a few times over the winter. Koo often has a runner or two up there.

262825    BRIGHTON    2010-10-21 14:00:00    Goodwood Maestro (GB)    2010-10-20 10:39:00    Self Cert (Going)

It's described as Good at Brighton today as it was at 10:00am yesterday. What ground are they actually wanting for this beast?

Is there any control on self cert withdrawls?


Andy, you ok m8?

Hi Muq, sorry for not getting back, forgetfulness

Will try and get up in the new year.

Is strange about Andy, isnt it??

more evidence that going stick isn't working at Ayr, 8.3 today but jocks saying soft and times saying soft.

At three grand a pop I would be asking the manufacturer to explain wtf is going on with the device!

muqbil , a ten quid brolly would be more accurate imo

Hi Guys,

I pinged an email to Racecourse Inspectorate yesterday and one of the things I mentioned was the flip flopping going stick readings at the Ayr Western meeting.  Interesting to see some confusion again today at Ayr.

I'm basically asking if the BHA/RI review the info given out by the racecourses, giving some examples to illustrate the points.
I've also made some suggestions to them how more consistent and publicly available information would be useful.

I'll let you know if/when I get some feedback.

Not a lot of Good at Newbury today imo

Going description at Don wrong surely, given the times ?

.

Was it the "End of season booze ups" at Newbury and Donny on friday night or were there some strong winds around

Donnys good(g/s in places) saw times going below standard by up to 1.50 seconds

Newburys Good to Soft  looked around 0.80 a furlong slow

Is my post invisible ?

Sorry PHS, didnt mean to ignore you. was just bringing up back to the top for people's attention..

Late reply Zilzal. There was a strong headwind at Donny on Friday.

This was Saturday, freebooter............

And if there was a headwind on Saturday, Casamento must be around Sea Birds mark to go under standard by that much

Ta Zil

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing/chris-mcgrath-vested-interests-of-sports-rulers-will-turn-turf-into-wasteland-2120398.html

Chris McGrath really laying into Paul Roy in there today, LOL

missed Ayrs rail notice on the BHA site yesterday. Was it standard rails lads? Tia.

Interesting that Nick Mordin has weighed in on the debate

http://www.nickmordin.com/
uk.htm

Apologies if highlighted previously

I noticed that DJQ

AYR 30th :-
Full width of track in use to provide fresh ground.

Past 24hrs 15mm of rain. Saturday- Dry with sunny intervals, 20% risk of light shower early a.m. Recent rainfall: Mon-7mm; Tue-6mm; Wed-9mm; Thur-6mm.

5f & 6f: Far Side

Heavy (GoingStick: 7.1 on Saturday at 06:30)

POSTED ON OCTOBER 25, 2010

A GOING CONCERN

Last Saturday at Doncaster the official going was 'good, good to soft in places'. The 'places' they were talking about were clearly in another county because race times show the ground at Doncaster was actually riding lightning fast. They ran just a second off the course record in the first race. And, despite a slow early pace, Casamento clocked the fastest time in the fifty year history of the Racing Post Trophy.

Misleading going reports persuade punters to choose horses that are unsuited to the ground. They make it hard to figure out which horses are suited by a particular surface in the first place. And, perhaps worst of all, they persuade jockeys to set an early pace that's inappropriate for the prevailing conditions. On faster ground than reported this leads to a slow early gallop and a sprint finish like the one we got in the Racing Post Trophy. This in turn means you have to question whether the best horse won or whether they simply happened to be in the lead or close to it when the sprint finish began.

In short, the cumulative effect of an inaccurate going report undermines the confidence of punters in horse racing as a betting medium. And this is merely one of many areas where racing officials are failing to provide the betting public with adequate or timely information. It's hardly a surprise therefore that last week one major bookmaker reported that horse racing had dropped from being 70% to just 40% of their total betting turnover in recent years.

Racing officials need to recognise that their sport is no longer the only game in town. Punters now have the option of wagering on other sports and different betting mediums - and they're going to continue switching to them until racing officials recognise that punters are not mugs who'll bet on anything but smart people seeking to make an informed decision.

(with thanks to)
(c) nickmordin.com

Posting the above for longevity chaps, if we keep hammering at the door, maybe someone will one day think we might just have a point re: misinformation.

I received a reply from the Racecourse Inspectorate to my email I sent them.  I enquired about some of the anomalies highlighted on this thread this season and further back, alongside my own thoughts.  First things first, great credit to the individual for replying in a timely and extremely comprehensive manner.  At least it proves there are individuals within the BHA willing to listen and communicate in a positive manner.  I'll digest the information and provide some comment on here later.

Good to see someone at the BHA start to realise that it isnt the best idea in the world to be dependent on how much your customers lose

It was a big tick for PS. Strange how he said it right at the very end as the programme was about to go off air. It could have been a useful weapon for the girl hosting the show to pickup on.

The alternatives though are worrying, zilzal. A turnover based levy would kill exchanges stone bonking dead for horse racing, we wouldn't get on anywhere then!

3 cheers for the Track Manager at Churchill Downs - basically telling Stoute and Cecil to stop being selfish and if they aint happy take their horses away and not to run. Stoute and Cecil been getting dog's abuse in the american media. And about time imo

many thanks Muqbil. ;)

I find it frankly embarrassing that those connected with Workforce have dared to criticise the ground. It looks fine to me - it's not like Del Mar after a few weeks, and even then that is safe.

Workforce has a horribly high knee action. That is a fact, but it didn't stop him winning the Derby in record time.

Horses who can't handle Good To Firm ground breeding more horses who can't handle Good To Firm ground - that is the future.

Seems like Southwell are giving good to firm in places..............

Took a few days to find the thread in the new forum!!

Workforce is no more a champion than I am a olympic gold medal winner. Load of old cobblers.

Sadly the clerk at Southwell remains too lazy to even make an entry for track conditions. Would they be bothered to inform the punters / connectionas if there had been a heavy frost and deep harrowing?

Looks like have to just keep an eye on the times after each race. Was riding slow last winter so will be happening soon. Did you see the Dundalk * Doncaster review 6th November been shown yet?

Not seen them yet, Roger. I noticed they were showing an Irish meeting from the 13th this am, so I guess they have quite a backlog!!!

im worried they showed it some day at 4.30 a few days back and we missed it..they showed yesterdays Sedgefield which is a worry might mean theyve shown everything by now.

Are you sorted with the replays, Roger?

Donc shown on 12th, dundalk today

So Haydock was good to soft on Saturday(even good in places on the hurdles course)


Really......

Keeping her up.

Interesting going at the aw tracks this week. Southwell will be riding v. slow today I imagine.

gl fellas.

16-Oct-10    Good (Good to Firm in places)    8.1
15-Oct-10    Good (Good to Firm in places)    7.9


Those were Cheltenhams stick readings, tomorrow they are giving it as Good(good to soft in places at 8.3

Maybe like the great initiative to renumber the starting stalls for no good reason, maybe they have reversed the scale on the going sticks?

Happy New year to all Clerkwatchers

Ditto from me too Zilzal 1, not been posting for a while but still have a read of the threads.Keep up the good work lads.

very quiet these days, roll on the flat, no one started a Clerkwatch 2011 yet. Jonjo ?