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Clerkwatch 2010

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By:
empty
When: 04 Feb 10 11:40
If i refuse to provide sectional times and beaten lengths in Past Performances like they provide in other countries you as a punter, trainer or owner have no choice in whether to use the information or not. The same applies to going stick readings, be they an averaged or more detailed.

Lack of inforamation is the BHA's and other racing authorities way as pointed out by FB earlier.
By:
empty
When: 04 Feb 10 11:43
The BHA has to make and insist those little numbers part of the Official information.
By:
empty
When: 04 Feb 10 11:43
*are part
By:
jonjo
When: 04 Feb 10 16:01
I dont know what the atual plans are for the BHA website showing everything (form breeding, cards etc) free of charge to the masses, but done right it could be a massive shot in the arm for the sport.
I only hope they resist the urge to get the usual gravy train brigade involved & give people who write pertinent, thought provoking copy & insightful analysis of form to contribute.
Done right, this could be a winner. Done wrong, it will be the dampest of damp squibs.
By:
empty
When: 04 Feb 10 16:38
Bout time UK racing had this http://www.emiratesracing.com/node/3?id=2374#tab-8021 kind of thing JJ, but i doubt it will become avaliable as the last thing racing industry seems to want to do is supply followers with decent information.
By:
ForestBump
When: 05 Feb 10 11:52
In fairness Zil, the going description is in the formbook as gospel and will have been 'taken' at the same time as the GS. you are right, in that if there's a subsequent going change after racing has started, the GS reading won't reflect it. Then again, a part reading over just a furlong wouldn't give the true picture either.
By:
zilzal1
When: 05 Feb 10 11:59
A part reading would give us some clue although you make a valid point about part of the course.

I dont really see the point of a going stick unless it reflects the conditions that Horses actually raced on though- of what real use is it in its current guise??-at least give us a reading taken after racing so we can take a educated guess as to the conditions for future reference.

Still waiting for the stick reading chart from each course that the BHA said would be published, if only for comparison.
By:
zilzal1
When: 05 Feb 10 12:01
Why i mention "Lite" readings at the two and one is that is where most races take shape in that the animals are usually at top speed and where optimum conditions for each horse may be judged as to suitablity for ground preferences. i do try and time races from the two furlong pole in where possible.
By:
jonjo
When: 05 Feb 10 18:40
Better to have a 'time based' assessment of the ground for each race set against standard for each race going in the formbook 'alongside' the highly subjective going description the clerks offer up imo........people who dont want it needn't read it?
By:
zilzal1
When: 05 Feb 10 18:42
Jonjo, what price was Shergar after the Chester vase for the Derby, i could have sworn he went sub 6/4
By:
empty
When: 05 Feb 10 20:12
http://www.theracingforum.co.uk/horse-racing-forum/horse-racing/virtual-meydan-t81046.html

robert99
05 Feb 2010, 21:53
by robert99 on 05 Feb 2010, 21:53

"Silvoir
05 Feb 2010, 16:39
by Silvoir on 05 Feb 2010, 16:39

I'm fairly certain they're using a firm called Trackus (http://www.trackus.com), who are in place at Del Mar, Santa Anita & Deauville.

I like the 'chicklets' at the bottom personally and the post race stuff is brilliant. Add in the sectionals and it's a fabulous tool, and something RFC are aware of.

Don't think it comes cheap though...Paul Struthers
BHA
http://www.britishhorseracing.com"


It actually did come cheap as Turftrax did the same thing for free to UK racing well before Trakus copied it.
Did BHA etc support the Turftrax initiative ? - no, they went bust.
Glad RFC are aware - where have they been for the last decade?
Are they also aware that Turftrax/Trackus system can also provide recorded hard evidence for non-triers that would stand up in Court?
BHA are long aware but totally ignored this.



I'm a fan of Robertt99 :)
By:
zilzal1
When: 05 Feb 10 20:28
Just went to the site Empty and its seriously impressive stuff from Trackus, British Racing is missing some serious techno stuff not having this

Decimal odds my arse
By:
jonjo
When: 06 Feb 10 08:35
I think Shergar was 5/4 after the Vase Zil.......

From the Racing Post....

BHA tightens jockeys' licensing criteria
By racingpost.com staff 12:52PM 5 FEB 2010 JOCKEYS must follow a new 'fit and proper persons' code to meet the BHA's requirements for a riding licence it was announced on Friday.

Following the introduction of enhanced suitability criteria announced in November 2009 relating to trainers, the BHA has introduced a similar criteria for jockeys and one for owners will follow later in the year.

These enhanced criteria are described as the next step in the authority's ongoing review of the entire licensing process, which by 2012 will see a move towards online licence applications, and potentially an end to the traditional annual renewal process for licences.

The BHA will be actively enforcing the suitability criteria for all licence typesand, where appropriate, opposing applications from those individuals who fail to comply.

Oliver Codrington, head of compliance and licensing at the BHA, said: "This is another important step for the authority to take and we remain on course to review suitability criteria for all licence types through 2010 and those relevant to ownership registration.

"The criteria is in place to ensure that those who wish to be licensed and participate in the sport, understand that there are clear and effective criteria to satisfy in order to do so."

Kevin Darley, chief executive of the Professional Jockeys' Association, said: "The PJA has been in dialogue with the BHA and supports the need for clearer licensing criteria in order to maintain the high standards expected of licensed individuals for the benefit of the sport."
***********************

The criteria......

Notes for Editors:

1. The criteria will also apply to Jump Jockeys and Conditionals when their licences are renewed in September

2. More details can be found at: www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/licensing/

3. The enhanced criteria, extracted from the general guidance notes for an application for a licence, are below:

GENERAL SUITABILITY (
By:
zilzal1
When: 06 Feb 10 09:43
6.12 The Licensing Committee has a policy of not granting a jockeys licence to a person actively engaged as, or otherwise associated with, a Bookmaker, having made the judgement that such a close financial interest, potentially in conflict with his interest as a jockey, is likely to diminish public confidence in the integrity of racing.



So is the end of previews in LBO's then???
By:
zilzal1
When: 06 Feb 10 09:44
ffs, is this the end of previews??, surely the lads get paid ??
By:
empty
When: 06 Feb 10 13:04
The tightening looks a good move from the BHA to this uneducated person.

Maybe they are finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
By:
jonjo
When: 07 Feb 10 06:47
I am delighted they've brought this in.
Loved the way Darley makes out it's to 'maintain' the high standards we've seen lately........Nothing to do with the plethora of your ex-colleagues who've either been banned or investigated over 'integrity issues' eh Kev?
Still no word on the Francome statement from you either Kev???
I've not forgotten you reckoned he should apologise for his comments about 'bendy races' (just before loads of jockeys got stood down)
By:
zilzal1
When: 10 Feb 10 16:37
This is what its taken the BHA since the going stick started in 2007 to come up, im a bit disappointed as i hoped it would be course by course, as i did last year, it took me three weeks and thats doing it long hand.

dont think it would have taken much work to ask each clerk to look at its history and produce its scale which then could have been checked by HQ.
Anyway for all the use it is, which i cant think of many, here is the peice thats now on the BHA Website

GoingStick reading is specific to an individual racecourse and most valuable when considered in the context of historical readings at that course. Below are the mean readings for all fixtures across all of Britains racecourses (by code) over the last two years:

Note: This is not an official scale and should not be used to give a specific indication of the Going at any individual course.

OFFICIAL GOING DESCRIPTION GIVEN BY CLERK OF COURSE - FLAT NUMBER OF REPORTS LOGGED MEAN GOINGSTICK READING
HEAVY 68 5.5
SOFT 258 6.4
GOOD TO SOFT 581 7.1
GOOD 1165 8.0
GOOD TO FIRM 1538 8.9
FIRM 150 10.1
HARD 0 N/A


OFFICIAL GOING DESCRIPTION GIVEN BY CLERK OF COURSE - JUMP NUMBER OF REPORTS LOGGED MEAN GOINGSTICK READING
HEAVY 210 5.2
SOFT 499 6.0
GOOD TO SOFT 672 6.9
GOOD 1089 8.0
GOOD TO FIRM 543 9.0
FIRM 10 10.5
HARD 0 N/A
By:
Me2
When: 10 Feb 10 17:12
I'm rather surprised to find out that Flat Good etc is the same as Jumps Good etc.
By:
cherry
When: 11 Feb 10 05:03
Me2, the gstick should produce the same reading, shouldn't it?
It was clerks opinions of what jump racing 'needed' that produced different standards of 'good' between the two disciplines.
By:
ben10
When: 11 Feb 10 08:23
Surely winter good ground is different to summer good ground, I assume that is Me2's point?
By:
empty
When: 11 Feb 10 18:31
The COC at Sandown has called as low as 8.2 Good to Firm and as high 9.4 Good to Firm


Which i think shows the subjective official descriptions are the problem and it is those "iffy" descriptions there saw Going Stick was introduced in the first place.


The Enviroment Agency was not having any of Seamus going round poking his stick in and telling them it is GF today so i need 3 million gallons.
By:
empty
When: 11 Feb 10 18:42
Listen to jocks when interviewed after a race and you will hear 2,3, 4 different opinions on state of ground, this will also happen with COC's, which makes the Official going a load of cobblers and that is very reason Clerkwatch was started.
By:
empty
When: 11 Feb 10 18:51
empty 11 Feb 20:31


The COC at Sandown has called as low as 8.2 Good to Firm and as high 9.4 Good to Firm



Anyone with a brain cell can see these is a big difference between these two numbers, but the Official describes them the same.


They imho ignore what the objective measure tells them and still rely on the outdated method to describe the going.
By:
empty
When: 11 Feb 10 18:56
rant over btw :)
By:
jonjo
When: 13 Feb 10 06:22
Rant fully justified Empty ;-)
By:
zilzal1
When: 16 Feb 10 22:29
Briony Craven-Russell, well well, now we know what the Post thinks of its readers and clients, so unless you have been on a animal, you cannot judge anything, wonder what all these writers at Timeform, Raceform etc have been wasting their time on then??.

At least we know now that the post want nothing to do about questioning going reports and stick readings with people like her on the books, sorry luv, i'll just stay up the chimney where i belong, pay my GPT and keep quiet.
By:
ben10
When: 16 Feb 10 22:53
Ugh, that was one of the most sycophantic articles I've ever read, disgusting stuff. Millhouse summed the whole article up best (hope he doesn't mind):

millhouse 16 Feb 12:24
She won't go far wrong in this horrible, disingenuous, thoroughly cynical industry by toeing the establishment line in any way she possibly can, imo - even if she does want to do it by using lots of long words in the wrong context so that her writing is bafflingly nonsensical...



On a lighter note, thought the article had an element of irony about it after Newcastle today!
By:
JOSE93
When: 17 Feb 10 00:07
empty 11 Feb 20:51

The COC at Sandown has called as low as 8.2 Good to Firm and as high 9.4 Good to Firm



Anyone with a brain cell can see these is a big difference between these two numbers, but the Official describes them the same.


They imho ignore what the objective measure tells them and still rely on the outdated method to describe the going.


Those methods were never really in date, were they? They are just descriptions used in very simple terminology - soft, hard, firm etc.

It sure will be fun when we have TV presenters saying the track is rated 9.5 today, because that's what you want, Empty, I take it? Words can't describe the numbers. Because any words will be a made up term to describe the numbers in some way. To some, it will be, what does that mean then? Can you seriously imagine a TV broadcast where Chapman might be discussing a horses chance and says; "He's won a track rated 8.4 and it's 8.5 today. He's unproven on the going, because he's never raced on a track rated 8.5." And strictly speaking, it will be true. You can have the track/going rated by numbers, but will you want the numbers to have 3 decimal figures next?
By:
Julius Caesar ( JC 100 BC )
When: 17 Feb 10 06:40
Does anyone have any idea how the insurance schemes work in relation to a racecourse abandoning a fixture ?

I ask this ? because the Folkestone executive have been rather quick to call of the last two meetings which imvhavho wouldnt have even needed an inspection at other meetings :0
By:
jonjo
When: 18 Feb 10 13:53
Anyone got the link to Miss Double-Barrelled's article, I seem to have missed an utter gem there?
By:
ben10
When: 18 Feb 10 14:02
Here you are:

http://www.racingpost.com/blog/horse-racing/briony-craven-russell/
By:
zilzal1
When: 18 Feb 10 14:03
Its on her blog JJ, The cringeworthy one about Meydan isnt around though
By:
ben10
When: 18 Feb 10 14:06
I could probably find it if you want it?
By:
Me2
When: 18 Feb 10 17:53
Thinking about it, I suppose having Flat Good the same as Jumps Good helps explain all the watering!!!

The COCs are having to water to make the ground Good, but it is good Jumping ground, not good Flatracing ground!!!

:0
By:
jonjo
When: 20 Feb 10 15:22
Having read the article, I would have to say that imo, it is probably THE worst piece of 'insider @rse-licking' that I have seen on that rancid excuse of a website & I cannot comment on there because you need to pay them now in order to comment on their worthless dribble & I have no intention of ever giving them a**penny, ever again.....
Cunningham was on the ball (as usual) with the reference to roll ups & 'ale' as giving insight into this 'writers' perspective......

Amazing that talented writers about the sport like GC, Lydia Hislop etc are not wanted by the Post, yet serial brown-nosers like BC-R are given a platform to bite the very hand that racing is supposed to be reaching out to.........
Millington ought to resign, but I doubt he's even considered it.
By:
Julius Caesar ( JC 100 BC )
When: 21 Feb 10 06:59
They should offer her a promotion. The top table beckons. Silver spoons, elongated tongues and specially prepared blinkers. No tangent thinking or writing is permitted under any circumstances. The dinosaur is still alive and rampant.
By:
johnn
When: 22 Feb 10 17:16
At least York have got their act together for the forthcoming flat season. They sent me a letter today assuring me that Peppa the Pig would be a continuing attraction this year.
By:
turnip turns
When: 22 Feb 10 17:18
ffs :^0
By:
jonjo
When: 26 Feb 10 16:19
Christ Nick, that's far too advanced for this lot......
Might be something that could pop up in an article sometime soon though ;-)
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