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18 Apr 20 18:19
Date Joined: 31 Aug 16
| Topic/replies: 5,382 | Blogger: privatehire's blog
From: Richard Brankley
Subject: On-Course bookmakers


Following on from the call today. To confirm – the betting industry will not be collecting and using prices from on-course bookmakers at your tracks with effect from Friday 20th March and therefore there is no requirement for you to have bookmakers standing. We will however require a “tissue price” to be emailed to either the night before or morning of your meeting, priced to c135%. I appreciate there may be some difficult conversations arising from this change and there is no indication on how long this process will continue

Richard Brankley
Head of Greyhound Operations
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Report dr . atkins April 18, 2020 5:29 PM BST
saw that coming no more payments to track bookmakers
Report privatehire April 18, 2020 5:44 PM BST
No bookmaker who is now redundant is gona provide a tissue. So who is gona provide a tissue? Racing office Laugh u couldnt make it up doc.
Report ItsMeSwaddle April 18, 2020 5:47 PM BST
Whats wrong with BF -5% a runner lads?
Report wedge1 April 18, 2020 6:02 PM BST
so to obtain a tissue surely they will employ someone
Report sparrow April 18, 2020 6:08 PM BST
We will however require a “tissue price”

The downright cheek of them.
Report privatehire April 18, 2020 6:11 PM BST
If evry1 becomes more an more reliant on betfair does any1 think as i do that they will try an exploit situation with heavier charges.
Report privatehire April 18, 2020 6:13 PM BST
Quite unbelievable sparrow. A lot of young lads making these decisions. They will learn u get nothing for nothing in this game.
Report wedge1 April 18, 2020 7:26 PM BST
I would hazard a guess that most of the money on betfair is industry based
Report HGS April 18, 2020 10:00 PM BST
Who is gonna provide the tissue? Very bizarre.
Report ItsMeSwaddle April 18, 2020 10:11 PM BST
They expect tissue for free?

More chance with a beggars bowl at the Kleenex factory.
Report Ell April 18, 2020 10:27 PM BST
Why would anyone place an SP bet at 135% ?.
7/2 co fav of 6 anyone ?.
Report privatehire April 19, 2020 8:02 AM BST
I have read with considerable interest many of the comments lamenting on-course bookmakers. At this point I would like to clarify that not ALL on-course bookmakers get paid to attend a meeting on BAGS, SIS or RPGTV, speaking as a Belle Vue bookmaker we have never received a payment for any meeting. Many tracks struggle to attract on-course operators because they have foregone their evening fixtures in favour of lucrative media fixtures so the problem arises.
Your article suggests that the Gambling Commission would prefer it if SPs were not derived from on-course operators, however, they are satisfied to receive the license fees they pay and monetary contributions towards problem gambling but in reality I would imagine it would be the SP Regulatory Committee who would have the final say.
Having bet at many BAGS fixtures for a number of years it would be very easy to be insulted at this article as many of my colleagues spend a great deal of time watching re-runs of races and preparing their own tissue before arriving at the track and making final adjustments when the non-runners and reserves are announced, this may also include late withdrawals during the day too. We have to travel to the track, most of us live an hour away at least and makes for a day’s work. Whilst we bet at the track, we may notice any bias in the track if there has been prolonged weather conditions, would an algorithm deal with this. We are also in a position to know the dogs and this is an advantage only the human touch brings to the table.
What is puzzling me the most is that I have never met a punter who has not had their account closed or severely restricted, not always for having the audacity to back a winner but sometimes for backing too many selections that drop in price but don’t necessarily go on to win so I don’t know who is applauding the future of odds being produced by a computer but at this moment in time, prior to COVID-19 that is, if you want a 500/400 on a BAGS meeting at Belle Vue come and have a bet at the track, you will be on. Come racing when we’re back!!
I think the on-course layers have served the industry very well over the past decades, facilitating them to earn millions of pounds and if you are not happy with this then it will be interesting to se an alternative that works better.
Stay well, stay safe.
Simon Walmsley, Chairman National Association of Bookmakers
Report sparrow April 19, 2020 9:33 AM BST
I suspect a few people on here will have something to say about Mr Walmsley's remarks!  Grin
Report go racing April 19, 2020 10:12 AM BST
I think Mr Walmsey is missing the point. They will be using the Betfair show but adjusted to 128%. Fast updating , numerous price adjustments and a show they can rely on rather than the occasional dodgy price from a couple of old blokes standing up at the track. I’ve seen it and don’t like it.....front three in betting crippled with next to no value and the outsiders at 8/1 10/1 and 12/1 when they are 12/1 16/1 and 33/1 on good to anyone in the shops. Not sure they are gonna like the new model as there will be no more false short favourites put in and it will help the outside mugs to follow the right moves and dogs, lessening there mug profits.
As always they will get there own way as the G/C favour this system as per article in Greyhound Star yesterday so yet again choice is being taken away and customers will also have just one choice on evening meetings and that will be the tracks rip off Tote at 30%
Report onthearkle April 19, 2020 1:49 PM BST
If its tote only in its current form I wont be attending.
Report onthearkle April 19, 2020 2:01 PM BST
Im 64 now and like most who come on here remember how good it was as a sport and for owners like me back then.
I haven't owned a dog for several years now it used to be fun its not now your just used and god forbid if you win out of turn.
Its not a sport anymore its a business thats  been bled dry and had its soul ripped out,lose the oncourse books and it really is a case of can the last one out please turn the lights off.
Report dr . atkins April 19, 2020 6:27 PM BST
certain track bookmakers been taking the p1ss for a few years now the regulars who still go to the track have all been barred from betting with the tracks bookmakers and the track bookmakers have been getting paid for putting no work in having no opinion and just getting the shows of betfair i am not saying all bookmakers but a lot of them could not price up dogs at the track they have been betting at for years the worst by a mile is romford it was so bad sis do not want a tissue off them
Report swampy117 April 19, 2020 8:46 PM BST
There is no reason for bookmakers to stop working at Bags meetings.If they are not payed to attend then they can still stand and lay their prices to those attending the track .There just wont SP from the track.This will soon be the norm at horse racing tracks.
Report ItsMeSwaddle April 19, 2020 9:55 PM BST
I agree with the above.
Report irishone April 20, 2020 7:14 AM BST
Ironically betfair is owned by a bookmaker  !
Report privatehire April 28, 2020 2:50 PM BST
Paul Illingworth, the GBGB’s senior stipendiary steward, is the man heading up the working group which will oversee greyhound racing’s return post-lockdown - and his message to industry stakeholders is to be patient and to work together.

Illingworth, who came through the racing office ranks before joining the GBGB, says he understands the greyhound community’s desire to make a return sooner rather than later - and that the Board has the same goal. However, timing will be everything.

He told me: "We are clear is what’s best for our greyhounds’ health and welfare. But it needs to be done properly, with due care and consideration - and at the right time."

Illingworth says the working group, which was set by by GBGB managing director Mark Bird, is "developing comprehensive plans for a responsible return to racing behind-closed-doors once the current restrictions can be eased".
He added: "The group is made up of GBGB Board and racecourse representatives, as well as myself as senior stipendiary steward, but is also taking advice from wider industry voices and experts – including on greyhound care and physiology.

"The return to racing will be a phased approach, starting with a trials process and then slowly building up towards a place where we can, when appropriate, resume normal racing in full.

"A phased resumption is essential for ensuring all the right controls are in place and working successfully, without risking the health of those working in the sport or undermining our high levels of welfare and integrity.

"Our top priority is always the welfare of our greyhounds. Whilst trainers and kennel staff, with the support of their owners, are doing a fantastic job of keeping up regular routines wherever possible, we need to make sure that dogs remain fit and in the right condition for racing. A stage-by-stage approach supports this, but ultimately the sooner we can get to some form of racing the better for these canine athletes.

"We have been really pleased and heartened by how everyone is pulling together through what is clearly an incredibly difficult time. That sort of spirit is going to be crucial over the coming months and is what will enable us to deliver a safe return to racing as soon as possible."

No exact dates can be given but the feeling is any announcement is a matter of days away, not weeks.

With several Premier League clubs returning to training and plans for major sporting fixtures such as grands prix being developed, albeit behind closed doors, greyhound racing is keen to show it can operate safely within government guidelines.

The GBGB believes it can be the first sport out of the traps and has detailed its plans to DEFRA and the DCMS - with tracks asked to employ strict biosecurity and social distancing measures.

Clearly, staging meetings in the first instance is the goal in order to protect the sport and its stakeholders economically.

Tracks and the GBGB itself were quick to offer financial assistance for trainers, but the pressure on owners to pay kennel bills remains - and what effect the pandemic will have on owner numbers in the long-term remains a concern.

And while graded racing will kick off the greyhound action, allowing the betting firms to broadcast live meetings, likewise RPGTV, a decision on open-racing and the major competitions is also keenly awaited by those in the sport.

An October date for the Derby at Nottingham is still being mooted, which would follow the Irish Derby at Shelbourne, allowing trainers to aim for both competitions - assuming travel restrictions by that stage have been lifted.

Of course, it is dangerous to assume anything given the current situation and the ‘phased’ return to racing spoken about by the GBGB can therefore be understood.
Report casemoney April 28, 2020 6:49 PM BST
How can RPGTV be broadcasting , I thought Gambling adds were barred from TV , who will pay them ??
Report casemoney April 28, 2020 6:50 PM BST
Technically they can only broadcast on line , as Gambling adds are being barred from TV ?
Report privatehire May 21, 2020 7:24 PM BST
Report privatehire May 21, 2020 7:24 PM BST
Report privatehire May 21, 2020 7:26 PM BST
Report privatehire May 21, 2020 10:06 PM BST
Fobts. The gift that just keeps on giving. Gvc 200 million. Hills 150 million. Overall they are saying 1 billion pound to the bookmakers. Tax rebate from fobts. Couldnt make it up.
Report starship May 22, 2020 6:08 PM BST
anything brought in by bookmakers are NEVER a good thing for punters.......industry sp is the newest good for punters
Report privatehire May 26, 2020 12:29 PM BST
Betting shops phased opening starts june 15. Day b4 royal ascot. How convenient.
Report beccaboo May 26, 2020 1:04 PM BST
Its like the pubs opening with no drinks and marks and spencers with no food. Bookies open but still wont take a bet,its a joke industry now.
Report privatehire May 26, 2020 1:22 PM BST
Of course your 100% correct becca. Tho it pains me to say it.
Report garryc May 26, 2020 3:16 PM BST

May 26, 2020 -- 1:29PM, privatehire wrote:

Betting shops phased opening starts june 15. Day b4 royal ascot. How convenient.

think scotland will be later than that private

Report privatehire May 26, 2020 3:59 PM BST
Yes garry my mate manages shop just down road from me. Hills. Bin told his shop is mid july. Busy pub nxt door. Obviously that wont be open.
Report Takethepaintoftherails May 26, 2020 4:21 PM BST
any bookie that gives them a tissue is a mug. fat ian sat in Gibraltar on north ov 80k a year for putting up the **** e puts up. Track bookies need to demand 80k a year for tissue or no tissue be provided.
Report privatehire May 26, 2020 5:20 PM BST
Report dr . atkins May 26, 2020 5:36 PM BST
yes no double meetings allowed i see
Report wondersobright May 26, 2020 7:46 PM BST
that's a positive
Report HGS May 31, 2020 1:33 PM BST
At least they've seen sense with regards timings. With half hour between races there would be no excuse for races clashing. From what I can see, this isn't gonna happen.
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 2:53 PM BST
4.5 hours for a 10 race card Laugh
Report HGS May 31, 2020 3:13 PM BST
Could only happen behind closed doors!
4.5 hours for a 10 race carD
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 8:41 PM BST
it seems some dogs the 2 mths off have made them find of lth out of the boxes hmmmmmmmmmm i smell bullsh1t sec times
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:05 PM BST
hope you've sharpened your pin ready for tomorrow doc, after 2+ months off I won't be accepting any excuses
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:09 PM BST
i doubt i will play but the 30 mins in between races i can get a quick power nap in
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:15 PM BST
chittybello in 2.22 where the 3.81 and 3.82 sec come from must be a sprinter now
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:17 PM BST
been looking over newky for tomorrow & the guineas next weekend
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:20 PM BST
you seen the gamble in the 1st at newky bad smells coming out of that stable
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:24 PM BST
yeah 1st time up for them they always attract money
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:25 PM BST
these thin prices on a/w not for me
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:27 PM BST
i should have not said gamble it's been 5t1
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:30 PM BST
have you heard anything about guineas fav?
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:34 PM BST
who trains it ?
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:43 PM BST
oh it's charlie horse
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:45 PM BST
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:45 PM BST
something about work rider...
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 9:46 PM BST
i messg you monday
Report wondersobright May 31, 2020 9:46 PM BST
Report dr . atkins May 31, 2020 10:03 PM BST
snooker back monday
Report casemoney June 1, 2020 3:00 AM BST
Surely the few people at the track the track Could just have a temp scan , and if normal , Just continue the meeting as normal ??

What difference is 30 minutes going to make ?? They are letting people into countries to go and mingle with Millions as long as they

have no high tempreture Plain What difference is an extra 10 mins or what ever going to make between races ??

Its fooking madness ,there are thousands back on public transport , the tube is mobbed again ...

Shirley anyone showing Symptoms or having a high Temp should not attend the Track , if everyone is A.O.K  get the fook on with it ..

How many people will be at the track ? you will find more on top of each other in one  Tube carriage tomorrow morning ..

The whole carry on is Beyond stupid ...  Very happy to see the dogs at least getting a run ........  But really what are we

returning to , the same cannon fodder shyte to line bookmakers pockets ,with a 10 minute longer gap , the whole sport  needs

looking at ,is this really what greyhounds racing is about ?? I said tracks will go and they have and will ,TBH if the only reason

Dogs are running around tracks is for the Sole reason of Betting ,half the dogs with no owners ,I am beginning to question if it

really is sport anymore ,if tracks cannot survive without Bookie by proxy owned dogs , should they really survive anyway ??

We are right back where we were with no Crowd, not that was too many at ur bags meetings anyway , The sport needs bookmakers to

survive , so as a dog can have a dinner , if its not been injured too badly ,that is ... The sport Stank and to be Honest the

Smell is Just returning and will probably get stronger ...
Report Czechbet June 1, 2020 10:07 AM BST
spot on casemoney, far too may soft touches and snowflakes in this sport. Just so small minded and massively shortsighted, look i get it you love the dogs, but without all the other aspects like betting, prize money, proper events etc etc then there are no more dogs ffs.

People so desperate to get racing back in any form they just let themselves roll over and take what ever is offered... any possible position of strength maybe could have acquired is now completely gone.

A historic sport and brilliant business model of the past just been milked to death.

PS hope everyone is fit and well Happy
Report Czechbet June 1, 2020 10:08 AM BST
what really is the point of bookies paying for all this racing if they dont even take bets lol Crazy
Report casemoney June 1, 2020 1:12 PM BST
We are back with the same shyte on a differnt day Czech , 50 % of what we are watching is little more than exploitation ,it is not sustainable in its current form , with no crowds the sport has fallen completely into the Hands of the Books and media providers
if you can even call it a sport anymore ,it is only a matter of time before more track closures , Breeding will ineviably rule the
waves and not all will want to be supplying dogs to High street bookmakers ....... We need a restructure and a refocus ,sadly the mob
currently running the sport appear to have no interest in that ...........
Report Czechbet June 1, 2020 2:03 PM BST
exactly just so badly mismanaged and shortsighted.
Report ItsMeSwaddle June 1, 2020 2:05 PM BST
The sad thing is they nearly have it right timings wise...

On a summer morning if they insist on 4 tracks....

Why not 20 minute gaps with a track off every 5 minutes?

Rather than race timings all over the place.

As for some of the garbage they are serving up Cry.

I'm sticking to the AUS stuff for now ive done much better than I ever thought I would and the UK stuff is just a watching brief/bingo for now.
Report dr . atkins June 1, 2020 2:26 PM BST
2.22 cittybellow i wonder where the 3.80 3.81 sec went in that 1st race Laugh
Report sparrow June 1, 2020 4:24 PM BST
Must have been a thrill a minute at Sittingbourne waiting half an hour for 6 two bend sprints. Cry
Report HGS June 2, 2020 4:29 PM BST
Two 16.42 races today. WhoopsWhoops
Report privatehire June 3, 2020 8:29 AM BST
Looks like atr gona be showing a live arc meeting wen american racing on at night.
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