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therhino
25 Feb 19 10:03
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Date Joined: 12 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 21,954 | Blogger: therhino's blog
I'd have to say yes. When professional players regularly get rulings that normal club golfers would never dare to ask for, something isn't right.

I think part of the problem is this myth that all golfers are honest and that the game is steeped in honour, with players calling penalties on themselves and this makes them somehow unimpeachable in a moral sense. It really shouldn't be that difficult though, is a soccer ref can withstand 6 blokes surrounding him going off their nut with tens of thousands booing him, why can't a golf ref simply say 'Ah sorry Dustin, you're taking the p1ss.'

Back to the honour thing, how many times in the last few seasons have we seen players call those penalties on themselves compared to the number of outrageous rulings we've seen for the player? Millions of dollars on the line each week, relying on the honour of those competing for it is a bit daft in this day and age imo. Then there are the actual howlers where the refs aren't bullied, the Lexi Thompson incident still makes me mad.

All in all, joke of a sport when it comes to rules and officiating.
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Report GoBallistic February 25, 2019 12:01 PM GMT
I rarely see much wrong with the officiating (the obvious exception being the non-application of the rules regarding slow play)

If you have nonsensical rules then you will have situations where applying those rules correctly leads to nonsensical rulings
Report trebor February 25, 2019 1:05 PM GMT
Players know that by calling for a official there is only a possible up side to be gained, if they can con the official it stands at the end of the round, there is no way that DJ or Rory should have got a drop last night, neither would have been on or touching the path if taking the stance they would have really used to play the shot.
Yet McGinley hails Rory as a honest player for accepting the refs decision and not taking the option of getting another opinion, an honest player would not have called for a ref in the first place!

Maybe the tour should publish the stats on how many times a player calls a ref for a decision each tournament or year. they want to speed up play then limit the number of times a ref can be called, 2 unsuccessful attempts to con relief in a season and the 3rd your on a penalty, bit like NFL and Tennis.

One of the problems with addressing the situation is its all one big circus, officials, players and media are all there each week together and no one wants to comment on the unethical approach many players use, after all they are probably having dinner with them that evening, better to just keep saying how honest they all are.
Report Vubiant February 25, 2019 2:16 PM GMT
Nothing like sport for bringing out the worst in people .LaughSadPlain
Report Knight Rider February 25, 2019 2:48 PM GMT
I thought McIlroy was a disgrace and should have been disqualified.  Surprised there hasn't been more furore about it...perhaps if it was Patrick Reed the reaction would have been different?

In that scenario you are giving solely your WORD that you intend to play a certain shot.  In Rory's case he said he intended to pitch out to the left.  As soon as he's told he won't get relief, he plays a left-handed shot out to the right.  Literally demonstrating to everyone that he was lying through his teeth in order to get a drop!  We all know that players will sometimes lie about their intentions to get a drop but it's not normally provable.  In this case it was and I would have disqualified him and suspended him from the tour for a few months.

The rule itself is ridiculous anyway, no one should get relief from a cart path unless your ball is touching it or your club will hit it during the swing.  Exceptions can be made when the ball is in the fairway (cart paths aren't normally in the fairway of course but they do occasionally go across).
Report sewter lives again February 25, 2019 3:11 PM GMT
McIlroy would have just said after discussing it with his caddy he changed his mind and played a different shot

Impossible to prove

The rule is the problem
Report donny osmond February 25, 2019 5:24 PM GMT
if you played a game of football, any code, without a referee or used them only when asked for
a ruling you would see how well officiated golf is by comparison.

some of the new golf rules are a bit odd to me, and some players seek an advantage in golf
that was not intended by those framing the laws but all in all its quite a decent set of rules
which are pretty well observed

i would like some laws to speed up play , ...that might take some enorcement though!
Report HeinzGuderian February 25, 2019 5:24 PM GMT
A sore loser speaks, me thinks.
The rule is, you get relief from a cart-path. Dusty got relief.
Wee Rory as KR has already pointed out, brought the game into disrepute.
Report Insideshrewdie February 25, 2019 7:25 PM GMT
I think everyone agrees the rules sometimes allow players to exploit them to better their own situation when they really don't deserve it.
The players all know that and swings and roundabouts etc they know they will win some and lose some.
We've all had bets that have probably swung on a player getting relief from putting himself in a bad situation......
and as a lot have said the players will 'push their luck " to a certain extent knowing that the rules can be exploited on occasions.....

It's a fine line though...animal droppings/scrapings accepted by a friendly local official or other stuff.

However, yesterday I believe that DJ could justify his appeal to the official...it was feasible IMO...one of the commentators stated re DJ position that 'you wouldn't play the ball that far forward in your stance in that situation' as DJ planter his right foot on the cart path.....Dougherty got it wrong though IMO as I don't think the rules dictate that you have to hit the ball from a certain position in your stance when you address it and claim relief...I may be wrong but I think DJ was well in the realms of possibility which I understand the key point the official rules on.....

However, R Mcilroy.....was on the wrong side of the line IMO and I agree with KR to an extent...not to the point of disqualification but he was lying and showed his true colours IMO which aren't that great........
He tried to persuade Mike Stewart the referee that the stance he wanted to take to get himself out of trouble hitting backwards would result in his right foot being on the cart path.
Not in a million years was this close to being the case as that stance and inherent line of strike of ball was straight in to the tree trunk
I think Mike Stewart was almost embarrassed that a player of that standard was even thinking of trying to justify it.....it was blatantly obvious even to a non-golfer...
Whether that is bringing the game in to disrepute or cheating (probably harsh) but it doesn't look good...and I think there are a vast majority of players (especially top echelon players through the years) who would not have called the ref over in that instance ...
Report 1st time poster February 25, 2019 7:41 PM GMT
rory said there was no shot at all without hitting the tree,but stewart showed him one way and rory took another ,that was 2 for starters
Report Kelly February 26, 2019 12:53 AM GMT
Neither DJ or Rory should have got relief . Cart paths etc should be designated as integral parts of the course , so you play it as it lies unless you take a penalty drop.  Cant blame either player , it is the rules which are at fault .

DJ could easily have played a proper shot (backwards) which was the only shot available assuming he did not want a one shot penalty drop . Any professional could move a ball in that situation with their feet together , they often have to play non standard feet position shots due to terrain conditions in the course of a round . The rules official involved ( same in both cases) applied common sense ruling in Rorys case , but not in Dustins .

Rory was trying to get a similar ruling by spreading his feet as DJ had got away with , but his positioning was less suitable for a favourable decision .

We have all seen Jack and Nick and Tiger get away with dubious favourable rulings in their golfing lives  , nobody questions their credentials , so DJ and Rory have to get a bye ball also .  The rules are at fault as they do not incorporate a clause which states that any relief is conditional on a player not being able to play a completely different type of shot consistent with the original lie of the ball .  Thus DJ should possibly have been allowed to move his ball some inches left from his original tree/root hugging lie , therefore having to play backwards with repositioned feet away from cart path as the only option given that he could not possibly have moved the ball forward from his original lie .

If Rory had been able to alter the position of his ball similarly he would still have chosen to play exactly the same shot as he played .

Don't know why the pros choose to not carry a "left option" club in their bag for inclusion on certain courses where tricky stance situations arise ( bunker considerations stance wise mainly ). Not that that would have benefitted either player significantly in these particular circumstances.
Report therhino February 26, 2019 7:14 AM GMT

Feb 25, 2019 -- 11:24AM, HeinzGuderian wrote:


A sore loser speaks, me thinks.The rule is, you get relief from a cart-path. Dusty got relief. Wee Rory as KR has already pointed out, brought the game into disrepute.


If you are referring to me, I can assure you that's not the case. I posted in the tourney thread before the last round Rory and DJ were even in my book. Zero pocket talking on my behalf.

No one is disputing the rule is you get relief from a cart path. There are many things about the way it's applied that are not right. He could have easily and safely chipped the ball back out with or without his foot touching the path. Players have no problem playing the ball ON THE PATH when a drop would give them a worse angle to the flag. We all know what is going on, a player hits the ball behind a tree and doesn't want to take his next shot from behind the same tree so concocts any reason possible in order not to when an opportunity presents itself. As fans we simply want to see the game played as it should be, these rulings which we seem to be seeing more and more of as players have caught on, do not pass the bullsh1t test, in that bullsh1t is exactly what you would call if a playing partner tried it on you in a club match.

Given how slow golf is and how much time is dedicated to making decisions and there is a push to make the game faster, these extended appeals are way out of whack. The organisers know it as well, check out DJs highlights from the final round on YouTube - the incident is completely edited out.

Report trebor February 26, 2019 11:07 AM GMT
The rules of golf are not at fault here???  They are Bl@@dy complicated and I for one would like to see ALL free drops removed from the game, certainly if you are not on the fairway, so what if you get a few things go against you, it goes against every fair player the times a player is in a bush and his foot (with unnatural wide stance) is on an animal scrap.  The player and his caddie nowadays run through a checklist as long as your arm to think of a way of getting a drop.

We are told that knowing the rules can save you shots, agreed if a player in a similar position on Sunday was actually having to stand on he path and did not know he was entitled to a drop is one thing, but to manafacture a unnatural stance is just cheating.

Make your own mind up after reading below weather the rules or DJ and Rory where at fault, here is the 'number one rule' in golf, without it golf becomes meaningless;

Section 1. Etiquette. Golf is played for the most part, without the supervision of a referee or umpire. The game relies on the integrity of the individual to show consideration for other players and to abide by the Rules.  All players should conduct themselves in a disciplined manner, demonstrating courtesy and sportsmanship at all times, irrespective of how competitive they may be. This is the spirit of the game of golf.

Still think KR penalty above is too tuff? or maybe it is just what is needed to make these players actually think about what they do?
Report therhino February 26, 2019 11:22 AM GMT
Absolutely trebor, but it won't happen. Imagine the powers that be suspending DJ/Rory/Tiger, those that bring in the crowds? Not gonna happen. Some refs who apply some common sense and have some backbone a far easier solution.

Also, is there any reason the PGA tour can't apply their own rules? Much like how basketball has different sets of rules governed by varying bodies (NCAA, FIBA, NBA etc)?
Report Kelly February 26, 2019 12:22 PM GMT
Rabbit scrapes a constant source of annoyance in some clubs .  I have played against opponents who have sought relief from a rabbit scrape when their ball was up to its uxters under a bush , unplayable . Opponents relented  , took a penalty drop ( both these players had plus handicaps and many amateur titles ).  But their history was to bully less savvy players and to live as near the edge as possible regarding rule interpretation.

Think the PGA reserve the right to impose "local rules" as needed .  To speed up play and reimpose sense and discipline there should maybe be an "appeals procedure" , but with on the spot penalties for a wrong call for an official by the player concerned .  That would concentrate the mind and guarantee speedier play ( and less distractive behaviour) .

While thy are at it why not control the ball to eliminate 350 plus drives which are turning the game and most courses into a farce .  At Wimbledon they play with Wimbledon issue balls , could do the same for any PGA or European event with manufacturer co-operation .
Report GoBallistic February 26, 2019 1:41 PM GMT
A major part of the problem is that the rules of golf are written for recreational golf.  If we all played golf on courses with grandstands, kiosks, TV towers / cameras, 1000s of spectators and a handful of rules officials dotted around the course then I suspect the rules of golf would look a lot different
Report TheAnorak February 26, 2019 4:57 PM GMT
DJ has previous from memory. When he won the US Open, on the 11th (or maybe 12th) in the final round, he hit his drive into very deep rough to the left and got a lie which would have made it difficult to even get the ball back on the fairway, let alone the green. He then called for ruling and got a dubious line of sight relief for a camera tower.

He took the ball back in line until he reached the parallel fairway, dropped it there, and hit his shot straight over the top of the camera he'd used to claim the relief in the first place.
Report Puggy4 February 27, 2019 11:27 AM GMT
Don't know what all the fuss is about, they both asked for a referee for a decision, they got their decisions and continued with the round, end of. No different than any other sport.
Report Insideshrewdie February 27, 2019 12:26 PM GMT
I would say it's an integrity /moral thing we are discussing here
And in a general acceptance of the fact the rules are complicated sometimes out of date and open to exploitation..

Tennis/cricket etc they are generally appeals for TMO clairifcation for fast moving occurences and agree you have a certain number of appeals and it's ruled on...end of..
Its different o an appeal for LBW or an appeal or an appeal say that the ball missed the line...black and white

In golf, it is very different on these occasions...play is topped, a rules official is called over usually about a course of action a player is looking to take and wanting to make sure he doesn't take a drop or whatever , get it wrong and end up with penalty strokes/disqual..

What started the discussion was the Rm and DJ incidents....
IMO RM was wasting an officials time and was blatantly trying to bend rules in a futile attempt to get a free drop when it was clear to all...no free drop should be allowed....that is not as simple as an appeal for LBW or ball on the line say at tennis.
In golf traditionally a sport of high integrity and very fine margins it looked pretty diabolical....
Report Catch Me ifyoucan February 27, 2019 11:01 PM GMT
RORY McIlroy’s interview after he settles for a sixth runner-up finish, and his conversation with the rules official


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l66P7WV2Ayw

Devil
Report Total Bosman March 1, 2019 12:15 PM GMT
Cejka was DQ yesterday because his yardage / green book doesn't conform to the new rules.  Yes, a silly error, but try explaining to the casual fan that that mistake is a straight red, Rickie taking a drop from higher than he should to no advantage is a penalty, but Dustin can drop clear of a tree for free, and all are perfectly correct within the rules of golf.
Report kincsem March 9, 2019 2:53 PM GMT
I would love to referee the top players.
"If you can see it you can hit it, play on." Laugh
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