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mexicano
10 Feb 12 22:03
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Date Joined: 13 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 11,616 | Blogger: mexicano's blog
quite regularly by all accounts.
Pause Switch to Standard View j p McManus has the round of a lifetime.
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Report mexicano February 12, 2012 10:52 PM GMT
i get out as often as i like.

and i'm on a golf course often enough in amatuer events to know that people who turn up at the top of the leaderboard in handicap events on a regular basis are not held in very high regard.

there's a very good example of the other type of amatuer golfer on display this evening.

ray romano.

been playing there for years never made the cut. managed that this year.

well done.


that'd more the way that it shpuld be.
Report mexicano February 12, 2012 10:57 PM GMT
david livingstone in commentary

"here's harrington with his friend pj mcmanus, they seem to win every one of these type of tournamants they enter"

tells you all you need to know really.
Report rubyisgodinthesaddle February 12, 2012 10:57 PM GMT
McManus must be some golfer on the big stage....he was unreal at the Dunhill too.

What is his handicap does anyone know?
Report firstimevisor February 12, 2012 10:58 PM GMT
mexicano,the day has long passed when one's handicap is decided by a club handicapper.
Report mexicano February 12, 2012 11:21 PM GMT
firstimevisor
Date Joined: 09 May 10
Add contact | Send message When: 12 Feb 12 22:58 Joined: Date Joined: 09 May 10 | Topic/replies: 42 | Blogger: firstimevisor's blog
mexicano,the day has long passed when one's handicap is decided by a club handicapper.

care to elaborate?


i've never seen them on sale in the duty free in dubai airport. or anywhere else for that matter.
Report Scuttler February 12, 2012 11:35 PM GMT
It is a great pity that Kim Jong Il has passed away as he is probably the only guy capable of beating McManus off JP's current "handicap"
Report firstimevisor February 12, 2012 11:44 PM GMT
i refer to your post at 18.43 and the suggestion that jp and son have been winning regular pro ams in ireland with a little help from the chairman of his golf club(whoever and wherever that is)  perhaps you should elaborate?
Report bigH February 12, 2012 11:48 PM GMT
A few years back in Eire, McManus played Woods in a match where they played off their official handicaps but in addition McManus was allowed to play each shot twice and take the best shot

i.e McManus would hit two drives and pick the best one.
He'd then hit two approach shots and pick the best one
On the green, he effectively had two attempts to get it in the hole

McManus alledgedly took a five figure sum off Tiger
Report Kelly February 13, 2012 4:47 AM GMT
The only way to beat the self handicapping dodgy golfers is to make the handicap during a tournament dynamic , ie adjustable . For someone to hone up their game once or twice a year and use a notional all year based handicap for 4 consecutive rounds is inviting trouble .

Any monetary reward JP got for his efforts is unlikely to be lining JP's pockets for long , guarantee you it will find a deserving cause . JP grew up a winner , saw that for myself long time ago when he was standing on the rails laying a book , great layer , and not afraid to take an opinion . Pity for bookmaking that  the likes of him have found easier and more lucrative ways to earn a crust .
Report racingguru February 13, 2012 10:45 AM GMT
JP is off 14 - Faldo said it should be closer to 7.
Report Knight Rider February 13, 2012 4:24 PM GMT
Can't believe there is even a debate about this.  Based on Old Cobbler's earlier post, you've got McManus (2), McManus Jr and Desmond all winning the Dunhill Links in the last 10 years.  McManus yesterday adds Pebble Beach to the trophy cabinet.  These are 150-team fields where in theory due to the hcap system each team should have an equal chance of winning.  The odds of the McManus crew racking up that many wins on a "fair" basis are astronomical.

Hardly a huge surprise though, not many people become super wealthy by playing by the rules.
Report mexicano February 13, 2012 4:41 PM GMT
firstimevisor Date Joined: 09 May 10
Add contact When: 12 Feb 12 23:44 i refer to your post at 18.43 and the suggestion that jp and son have been winning regular pro ams in ireland with a little help from the chairman of his golf club(whoever and wherever that is)  perhaps you should elaborate?
--------------------------------------------------------------

the point i was making is that most clubs have somebody who oversees the handicaps within the ckub, usually the chairman of the greens. and if he feels that there are players who's handicaps that have been arrived at by the normal calculations don't reflect their true ability they can be adjusted under the general play banner.

i would suggest that the performance of jp playing way better than his handicap on a regular basis on some of the hardest golf courses on the planet might warrent his handicap having a "touch up"  under general play.

well i know it would at our ckub, and believe it would be the case at most reputable clubs.
Report Eddie the eagle February 13, 2012 4:53 PM GMT
Not trying to defend anyone here, but doesn't it play a huge part for the team how the pro is playing ?
  I don't know if this has been the case all the time, but I'm guessing all their wins have been coupled with a pro performing well ?
  Maube they just have been lucky( Wink ) in drawing with one of the top pros most or every time.
Report mexicano February 13, 2012 5:32 PM GMT
that's it in one eddie.

he's just a lucky faceLaugh
Report saxon farm February 13, 2012 7:45 PM GMT
Anyone at My Club & I believe any other self respecting Golf Club, is summarily given "the cold shoulder" to a pot hunter continuously protecting his handicap.
Report firstimevisor February 13, 2012 9:16 PM GMT
Really cannot understand what the fuss is all about with regard to jp. He has won the team event twice in the Dunhill Links 2002 and 2006,which coincidentally were the same 2 years his team partner Harrington won the tournament outright,so hardly any great travesty of justice there was there?
As far as i know,pebble beach yesterday was the only other pro-am he has won(joint winner in fact) when harrington was 7th in the tournament.
There really is no story here and nothing unusual statistically about JP's performances,it has far more to do with Harrington's.
Report Kelly February 14, 2012 7:47 AM GMT
The fact that theses are "team events" is another loophole in the system , to be exploited by anyone who has the attitude to reap the benefit under the "team score" .  Add to that the fact that some golfers play better in a team situation ( just think of some Ryder Cup unusuals) , and if you have the time and money to hone up your game for a specified time then its Bobs your uncle time .

Nobody cares who wins these events anyway , except the  few who dont mind seeing their name in lights . A bit of fun generally for the wealthier among us who like to rub shoulders with the famous .
Report Biscar Two from a mile back February 14, 2012 1:19 PM GMT
You only have to look at the way he runs his horses to know how he thinks imho
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 5:54 PM GMT
i have met the man and he seems very nice and charming, and i know he does a lot for charity and various other things but i just have to question how he gets his handicap.

i was at my golf club today we have an annual pro am and a couple of charity team events every year. the general concensus was that nobody could remember anybody winni ng the pro am more than once, and a few people have popped up in winning teams in the charity matches on two , and in one case three occasions.

what we are talking about here are the two biggest [or most prestigious pro ams in the world and he's been a winner three times.

let me throw some figures at you.

all things being equal you are 5/1 to make the cut.

after that you are 24/1 to win it.

now i know that the way the pro performs has a bearing, and i know that some of the amatuers will be off handicaps that they haven't played to for years. but it does seem to me that he has the capability of coming up with these lifetime best rounds very frequently.

finally i take on board that  the ams pay a lot to charity to enter these events and they see it as a bit of fun but it seems to me the way he's "weighted" he's sure gonna have a lot more fun than most.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 6:35 PM GMT
cannnot understand what all the fuss is about. 75% of amateurs that played at Pabble are moneyed people who cannot play anywhere near their handicap, and add in the fact that Americans are about 3 shots worse than their European counterparts. Also harrington had over 20 birdies and would nearly have won had it not being for a few mental blowouts.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 6:51 PM GMT
i'll tell you what the fuss is mate.

in the last 20 or so rounds at pebble beach,kingsbarns,carnoustie,and st andrews. not particularly easy tracks he's achieved a lot better vthan his handicap on a very high percentage of those rounds.

which suggests to me that his handicap is wrong.

the best analogy i could give you about his performances over the two events would be; it's like a horse winning back to back grand nationals at aintree, then pitching up the following year and winning the irish grand national still carryting 10 stone.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 6:56 PM GMT
the winning pro am score was 35 under, allow for harrington having 20 birdies, McManus would have had 15 net pars over 4 rounds, in lay mans terms an average of 4 x 3 points scored per round- big deal
Report Puggy4 February 14, 2012 7:03 PM GMT
I can`s see what all the fuss is about either, as gopaudiego said Harrington had over 20 birdies, it`s only a bit of fun for the amatuers and looking at it on t.v most of the amateurs are more interested in acting funny than playing serious golf. If Harrington had not played his best golf in a long time the team would have been nowhere.
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 7:35 PM GMT
mexicano you need to cop yourself on.you conveniently ignore the fact that the pro on the 2 man team won the tournament twice,so the amateur would just need to have an average round and avoid a disaster for the team to collect.hardly rocket science.Also the amateur would pick up his ball wherever he cannot improve on the pro's score so you hardly expect him to be cut 4 shots just for being on the winning team.If they were winning team events regularly with Pod outside the top 20 it would look bad but as you well know this is not the case so why all the bitching?
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 7:44 PM GMT
i need to cop on???????????Laugh he plyes better than his handicap so many times and not a tad of embarresment.

and the opologists rush to defend himLaugh

i'll ask you all one question [well it only really applies if you have an official hcap]

would you like to play the geezer for a nice few quid
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 7:46 PM GMT
and for your information visor

if he'd had anything like "average" rounds in any of the three tournaments he would not have won them.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 8:43 PM GMT
goPadraig Harrington may have faded late on Saturday at Spyglass Hill, but his pro-am partner has allowed the team to maintain a huge lead in the pro-am. Harrington and Irish billionaire J.P. McManus lead the field by three shots.

Harrington is at 8 under, while the team is at 31 under. McManus, a 14-handicap, has contributed 23 shots to the team. At just under eight shots per round, let the accusations of sandbagging begin. In fact, they already have – on McManus’ Wikipedia page.

“Just amazing that a player like McManus with such a high handicap would all of a sudden, shave nine or 10 strokes per round off his game, especially under the pressure of playing in front of thousands on a foreign course. A true miracle of sports,” a recent addition says.

Having made a lot of money in gambling on sports and horse racing, McManus probably has a few Euro on his own pony this week.

The duo has a winning past, however dubious McManus’ stated index is. They have teamed twice to win the Alfred Dunhill Links pro-am.

If Harrington and McManus do win the pro-am title on Sunday, the Dubliner would be only the second European and fourth foreigner to claim the win since 1982. The only other European to do it? Fredrik Jacobson in 2008.

lf channel website
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 8:48 PM GMT
right mexicano lets go over this again.
we have a 2-man team made up of a pro and a hacker.
the pro plays in the pro competition and the pro and the hacker play in the team competition(best score counts)
the pro who wins the pro competition becomes automatic favourite to win the team competition too as he will,in all probability,contribute more to the team score than his partner,who ,if he plays even an average round,will leave the team in pole position as it will now take an amateur to play way above his handicap to beat them.
in summary again,JPs 2 wins in 2002 and 2006 can be put down to the fact that he was lucky enough to be harrington's partner.
Report Swardean February 14, 2012 8:50 PM GMT
The Kieren McManus win in the 2009 Dunhill Links was indeed ridicolous as has been stated by a previous poster.

He was paired with Soren Hanson (who finished 12 shots off the lead on -8 (winner -20).

Yes somehow the pair won the pro/am event on -44 (5 shots clear of nearest opponent).

How is that possible!!!
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 8:51 PM GMT
Mex,you are in denial. If you are a golfer you will know that there is nothing special about a 14 handicapper averaging 4 net birdies for 4 rounds. As for european record in event- none of them bother with AT & T
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 8:53 PM GMT
t.

But giving up four strokes in his final six holes means Harrington is seven strokes away from Wi. Harrington wasn't even the most spectacular Irishman in his group, as his amateur, J.P. McManus, playing to a 14-handicap, has gained their team 23 strokes, virtually unheard of anywhere - unless you're talking about sandbagging.

I saw McManus get up and down from a greenside bunker at 18 and then saw net birdies aplenty out of him on their frontside at Spyglass, known as the toughest of the three tracks used in the tournament.

Now McManus is a zillionaire and he probably doesn't care what I think, but if he's a 14, just like former San Francisco 49ers lineman Harris Barton, then I'm marrying Heidi Klum tonight!

To give you an idea of what a 14-handicap like Barton plays like, I saw him double the par-3 17th at Pebble after missing a two-foot putt.

Jim Harbaugh, a 12-handicap, or a guy who has to give McManus one a side if they played, hit a horrible iron way left at the 17th and then hit his wedge off the roof of a hospitality tent and into a bunker.

George Lopez, also a 12, hit his sand shot at 17 over the hospitality tent and onto the 18th fairway. So, J.P. McManus, are we to believe that all your up-and-downs and clutch 10-foot putts made are a product of a 14-handicap?
Alfie Lau's Potential Date For Saturday Night, A Certain Ms Heidi Klum, May Or May Not Keep Him From His Appointed Rounds On Sunday....But We Doubt It

Come to think of it, my most recent handicap is 14 and in the past year, I haven't had as many great shots that you had today.

Perhaps I really do suck and I'm not a 14, but it could also mean – most likely – that you are a sandbagger extraordinaire
ry this then.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 8:56 PM GMT
the pro who wins the pro competition becomes automatic favourite to win the team
--------------------------------------------------------------

care to tell me how many times the individual winner is also the team winner?

very rarely is the answer.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 8:57 PM GMT
Now McManus is a zillionaire and he probably doesn't care what I think, but if he's a 14, just like former San Francisco 49ers lineman Harris Barton, then I'm marrying Heidi Klum tonight!
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 9:00 PM GMT
are you saying that the winning pro should not be automatic favourite for winning team then?
Report Swardean February 14, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
Although not the best round for Kieran McManus on this day playing of 10

http://www.esp.egolfscore.com/EventPages/
PlayerDetail.aspx?PID=90&PD=2&OID=4744
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:01 PM GMT
, J.P. McManus, playing to a 14-handicap, has gained their team 23 strokes, virtually unheard of anywhere - unless you're talking about sandbagging.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:10 PM GMT
i really can't understand the apologists here. i know he's a sort of folk hero in ireland, but the top and bottom of it is that it's unheard od for a mid to high handicapper to have that amount of success which leads me to think he's off the wrong handicap.

i reckon sir nick faldo was about right.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 9:12 PM GMT
Mex, POD had 6 bogies and 2 doubles and 21 birdies, in effect this means JP had 14 net birdies 6 net pars and 2 net bogies to improve their score to 35 under over the 4 rounds. Tell me how you make out this is to be exceptional play and bty the way dont know JP from Adam
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:16 PM GMT
he was playing with a pro that hit double figures under par. he improved on that score on 23 holes.

that's noot exceptional, it's nigh on unprecedented.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:17 PM GMT
that's not to mention the holes where he equalled pods score.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 9:22 PM GMT
POD was 21 under par for 64 holes. Allowing that JP improved the score on the other 8 holes that brings them to 29 under so for PODs 64 good holes JP improved them by 6 shots to 35 under. I think this puts JP scoring in its proper prospective, not looking at it through your anti McManus glasses. Did his National winner cost you a fortune or something ?
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:31 PM GMT
listen

as i said i've met the fella, he seems ok, i have no axe to grind about him apart from his golf handicap.

it's iffy.

it's a well known fact that it's iffy.

him and his mates they all tend to play together and it dosen't matter , because they're all at it.

but.... when he goes in for competitions where he's playing against people who "play the game" as far as the handicap system is concerned he has a distinct advantage .

which is borne out by the fact that on three occasions he's won the top pro am prizes in the world. any golfer can have the odd exceptional round, but to do it over 4 days, then repeat the feat, then do it again, over some of the toughest golf courses on earth. is not the behaviour of a genuime 14 handicapper i'm afraid.

google his name regarding his handicap. look on his wikapedia page.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
Listen too, no comments on my previous post, does it make your argument look silly ?
Report Swardean February 14, 2012 9:33 PM GMT
If I was going to hand in a card like his I would be that embarrassed I would drop a few shots over the last holes
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:38 PM GMT
i didn't reply because it was gobbldegook

the salient fact is that he improved a pros double figure under score by 23 shots.

which as i said is unprecedented.

basically if pod had played as well as jp [relatively soeaking] everyone else would have gone home on saturday night.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 9:40 PM GMT
Grow up Mex,  read the post and think about it. I have no axe to grind with you or McManus but your argument is totally unreasonable
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 9:51 PM GMT
how is it unreasonable?

a normal amatuer playing in these events would miss the cut more often than not.

he would play worse than his handicap far more often than he'd beat it.

every now and again he'd have a very good round and maybe once have a spaecial roaund.

over four rounds mid to high handicappers tend to lose out to the more consistent low men.

he might have an absolute purple patch one week and be in contention.

he might have a obce in a lifetime experience and win one.

lp bucks all these trends, and has won world renowned pro-ams three times.

now this could be explained if he was a young or improving [or both] golfer and managing to keep ahead of the handicapper. but not a mid -high man who's been at the game for years.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 9:55 PM GMT
Mex, POD was 21 under for 64 holes, that means JP improved their score by 14 not 23 as you suggest. Does that not influence your thinking
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
you are getting so tiresome now mexicano. you are talking complete and utter bull here.jp has absolutely no case to answer. grow up
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:01 PM GMT
what about the holes where pod dropped shots.don't they count?
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:02 PM GMT
i wonder if [a]you two play, and [b] if you have a handicap.
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 10:08 PM GMT
yes i play,i have a handicap and i play in a club where bitching about someone else's handicap is not tolerated by the members.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:20 PM GMT
and you think that his "achievements" are the norm?
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 10:23 PM GMT
Mex, i play off 5. The other holes yes thats my point. Presume the 8 holes 1 under takes team score to 29 under so he had better score on 6 other holes giving improving team score by 14 as I said
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 10:29 PM GMT
absolutely yes.as anyone with half a brain knows,his "achievements" can be traced directly to an in-form harrington....when pod wins,the team are immediate favourites and jp has proved showed loads of bottle in that position.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:31 PM GMT
he improved pods score by 23 shots. to 35 under par.

are you as a 5 handicapper seriously telling me that you see nothing wrong here.

let me ask you this has anybody at your club won any sort of handicap competition of about the same handicap 3 times?
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:35 PM GMT
absolutely yes.as anyone with half a brain knows,his "achievements" can be traced directly to an in-form harrington.

harrington 13 ubder

jp 23 under

half a brain

as i said anybody who's got a clue knows he's at it.

i'm surprised the low man disagrees, but looking at his username he's probably being swayed by a bit of misplaced loyalty.

if he won 3 comps in a club he would be regarded as a bandit. but he's done it on the world stage and that's ok?

leave off.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 10:36 PM GMT
Mex not saying he is not a good 14 but you still fail to see he improved the score by 14 shots which I think is reasonable. You seem to disregard my points about the main body of amateur golfers being monied men who cannot play to their handicap, We all hate the golfers who mind their handicaps for the captains prize
Report firstimevisor February 14, 2012 10:39 PM GMT
my last post on this cos u seem like a total plank.u are totally biaised with regard to jp.u refuse to acknowledge in your argument that in 2 of his 3 wins he partnered the individual winner ffs!!! if u cannot concede that that entitles him to win the team comp then you have a serious problem going on in your head
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:43 PM GMT
i'm not disregarding it, i'm telling you it's wrong,

are you seriously trying to tell me he's a legitimate 14.

faldo says more like 7.

i'm presuming you live and play in ireland, have you not heard the tales about him dd & co. which as i said is fine as they tend to play amongst themselves.

he obviously dosen't perform at his clubs internal qualifying comps the way he does in these world renowned pro ams on more difficult courses ,and things like the waterville father and sons.
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 10:46 PM GMT
Mex have been called lots of things but never Irish. username diego ?? Anyway we will agree to differ on this
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:47 PM GMT
visor

where have i refused to acknowledge it.

i did so earlier and you questionwed my assertion that the winner was not necessarily favourite.

it is quite obvious by the past results and the individual winner not winning the team prize very often that the amatuer has more impact on the team result than the pro.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:48 PM GMT
i thought the name was along the line of go paudie goLaugh
Report gopaudiego February 14, 2012 10:50 PM GMT
I see where you coming from now
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:52 PM GMT
visor

if you want to call somebody a plank you need to have a semblance of an argument.

the way you want to interpret pods performance means that if the winner had a significant input into the amatuer prize the individual winner would take his amatuer pertner to the title about 66% of the time.

it's a fair less than that.
Report mexicano February 14, 2012 10:55 PM GMT
i will leave this discussion with one thought.

if somebody wins a couple of things in a society one of the nicer things they get called is a bandit.

this geezer has won the top pro am events in the world three times.

make your own minds up.
Report bigH February 15, 2012 4:57 AM GMT
gopaudiego
14 Feb 12 20:51 Joined: 27 Jan 03 | Topic/replies: 66 | Blogger: gopaudiego's blog
Mex,you are in denial. If you are a golfer you will know that there is nothing special about a 14 handicapper averaging 4 net birdies for 4 rounds. As for european record in event- none of them bother with AT & T


Maybe on any bog standard course, but not on a course set up for professional play.

I've been lucky enough to play on two courses on the Monday after the event finished (with Sunday pin positions)- on each occasion I found the course to be a real test due the increased rough, faster greens, impossible pin positions etc
Report Baggers February 15, 2012 12:39 PM GMT
Team scores

57
60
66
68

Harrington

68 (5 birdies + bogies on 10. 15 & 16 at Monterrey)
66 (7 birdies + 1 bogey at 14 (Ranked No 1) Pebble)
72 (4 birdies plus bogies on 5 (Ranked 15) & 7 (Ranked 3) and a DB on 8 (Ranked 9) at Spyglass)
70 (5 birdies plus bogie on 13 (ranked 10) and a DB on 2 (Ranked 9) at Pebble)

McManus

R1 - At least 8 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R2 - At least 5 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R3 - At least 2 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R4 - Must have net bogied either 2 or 13 despite gettin ga shot at both

Summary, he is better than a 14 h'capper but had a great day on Thursday at the easiest course when there was no wind
Report Baggers February 15, 2012 12:43 PM GMT
Above assumes he at least parred the holes Pod bogied
Report gopaudiego February 15, 2012 4:37 PM GMT
Baggers, well done on that info. It backs up what McCord said that the courses were set up easy for the first 3 days with only tough pins at the weekend. BigH take note please. I have to concede that thurs score was exceptional
Report Total Bosman October 5, 2014 4:23 PM BST
Another one for the McManus clan.  Incredible how they always seem to rise to the big occasion.
Report xmoneyx October 5, 2014 4:28 PM BST
memories

Scuttler    12 Feb 12 23:35 
It is a great pity that Kim Jong Il has passed away as he is probably the only guy capable of beating McManus off JP's current "handicap"


walofs
Report bigH October 6, 2014 6:31 PM BST
Peter Lawrie and Kieran McManus won with team scores were 60,64,66,61 (37 under par)

Peter Lawrie didn't make the cut!!!

In round 1, Lawrie has 1 eagle and 3 birdies in a round of 70
In round 2 he had 3 birdies in a round of 73
In round 3 he had 5 birdies in a round of 70

a net 61 (-11) on day 4 just shows you how bent this is

a family of cheating coonts
Report happyhibee October 6, 2014 7:12 PM BST
They're about 5 stone well in if you want to compare them to JP's horses
Report saxon farm October 6, 2014 8:07 PM BST
And DJ Chris Evans is banned from the event for a "dubious" handicap.

Seems like The McManus family are as "untouchabl" on the golf course as they are on the racecourse.
Report gentlemanjohn October 6, 2014 9:58 PM BST
Ah sounds like the bould Kieran played only average, certainly nothing like his winning performance a few years back when he and his pro partner broke the tournament record by 7 (SEVEN) shots!
Report FIGJAM October 7, 2014 11:50 PM BST
AN English scratch golfer at our club was invited by an Irish builder who played off 7 at our club to play some of the Irish Championship courses some years ago. At one place they were met on the first tee by a couple of locals who asked them if they fancied a game where a large wager was mentioned.
The builder said he was covering the bet and said "fine I'm off 14 my mate's off 7".
The scratch golfer nearly choked but got the evil eye from the builder.

They won the last to win one up.

The scratch golfer said he was  none of the Irish handicaps are considered legitimate and was fair game.
Report Catch Me ifyoucan October 9, 2014 8:48 PM BST
The Hon. Sec. at Sandy Lane may be a kind gentleman.
Report charwell. October 10, 2014 12:07 PM BST
Disgraceful family when it comes to being 'laid out' for the big day.

The McManus name must be mud in the clubhouse after these events with ridiculous scores. Most children grow out of 'winning at all costs' but the billionaires evidently don't!

In future there should be one competition for the McManus family and one for the other amateurs! Interesting to see those who were claiming 'nothing to see here' posters pop up and explain this one. Or are they too busy enjoying themselves in Scotland Crazy
Report JohnTerry October 11, 2014 8:51 PM BST
disgrace
Report the jolly October 13, 2014 5:32 PM BST
Agree with everything said about the McManus' handicaps but that contribution from FIGJAM above must be the most racist I have seen on Betfair for a while - maybe he is taking the Pizz - if so i apologise in advance
Report sofiakenny October 14, 2014 1:35 AM BST
The whole ethos of golf is self regulating honesty...these cowboys sully the great game.
Report a bitofinterest October 14, 2014 1:48 AM BST
YEEEEEE - HAAAAA Blush
Report saxon farm February 12, 2015 8:59 PM GMT
Jp playing off 12 this week at Pebble.
Report Total Bosman February 12, 2015 9:06 PM GMT
Didn't improve on Padraig's -4 today, Desmond improved Lowry by 6 shots.  They obviously take it in turns to avoid detection.
Report xmoneyx February 13, 2015 9:15 AM GMT
lov this thread
Report padlock February 13, 2015 10:37 AM GMT
Improved because of the better going
Report Clerkmore February 13, 2015 12:27 PM GMT
I'll make a prediction now. I bet JP will get AP McCoy playing in this next year.
Report a bitofinterest February 13, 2015 9:22 PM GMT
one of them will probably win a major this year
Report Catch Me ifyoucan February 15, 2015 12:06 AM GMT
Hon. Sec. gave him two shots back at Xmas this year (well he is nearly 64).
Report Wallflower February 15, 2015 7:29 PM GMT
FIGJAM      07 Oct 14 23:50   

AN English scratch golfer at our club was invited by an Irish builder who played off 7 at our club to play some of the Irish Championship courses some years ago. At one place they were met on the first tee by a couple of locals who asked them if they fancied a game where a large wager was mentioned.
The builder said he was covering the bet and said "fine I'm off 14 my mate's off 7".
The scratch golfer nearly choked but got the evil eye from the builder.

They won the last to win one up.

The scratch golfer said he was  none of the Irish handicaps are considered legitimate and was fair game. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's a completely different thing altogether - plain lying about your handicap (your handicap being accurate is what is involved here). You can check anyone's handicap online.
Report Swardean February 15, 2015 10:10 PM GMT

Feb 14, 2012 -- 9:50PM, Swardean wrote:


The Kieren McManus win in the 2009 Dunhill Links was indeed ridicolous as has been stated by a previous poster.He was paired with Soren Hanson (who finished 12 shots off the lead on -8 (winner -20).Yes somehow the pair won the pro/am event on -44 (5 shots clear of nearest opponent).How is that possible!!!


And I think the ameteurs play off 2/3rd of their official handicap in this event, so scoring like this is nigh impossible.  The fact that he wins the event again a few year later is incredible.   I wold have the face to collect the trophy

Report Swardean February 15, 2015 10:18 PM GMT
As mentioned Chris Evans was banned for life after his 2011 win.   He declared a 15 handicap and as per the rules played off 2/3rds (10).   On championship courses, set up for professionals he shot a 74 and 76.  Could a 15 handicapper really do that?
Report a1 October 8, 2017 4:16 PM BST
Kieran McManus this year.

Unbelievable
Report Catch Me ifyoucan October 9, 2017 1:35 AM BST
Catch Me ifyoucan • October 9, 2014 8:48 PM BST
The Hon. Sec. at Sandy Lane may be a kind gentleman.


Wd Ki Devil
A chip of the auld block eh
Report kincsem October 9, 2017 3:40 PM BST
Baggers
Team scores
57
60
66
68

Harrington
68 (5 birdies + bogies on 10. 15 & 16 at Monterrey)
66 (7 birdies + 1 bogey at 14 (Ranked No 1) Pebble)
72 (4 birdies plus bogies on 5 (Ranked 15) & 7 (Ranked 3) and a DB on 8 (Ranked 9) at Spyglass)
70 (5 birdies plus bogie on 13 (ranked 10) and a DB on 2 (Ranked 9) at Pebble)

McManus
R1 - At least 8 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R2 - At least 5 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R3 - At least 2 Net birdies at none of the holes Pod birdied
R4 - Must have net bogied either 2 or 13 despite gettin ga shot at both

Summary, he is better than a 14 h'capper but had a great day on Thursday at the easiest course when there was no wind


I was a 14 handicap years ago.  I was given a starting handicap of 22 then handed in a net 65 (playing socially) and got myself cut to 16 to avoid embarrassment.

Baggers  figures spell it out.
I'll labour the point a bit more

Round 1: Mcmanus had 8 net birdies on the holes 13 holes Harrington did not birdie.
Round 2: Mcmanus had 6 net birdies on the holes 11 holes Harrington did not birdie.
Or he net birdied 14 of the 24 holes Harrington didn't birdie in the first 36 holes.
14 net birdies in 24 holes is equivalent to 10.5 net birdies in 18 holes, playing off 14 handicap.
Subtract 10.5 strokes from the 14 handicap to give a real handicap and you get a real handicap of 2.5.
Am I doing this right?
Rounds 3 and 4 he must have eased up a bit to preserve his modesty.Happy
Report bigH October 9, 2017 5:37 PM BST
excellent stuff kincsem

they clearly have no shame

surely they must know that everyone just looks at them as cheats

I just tweeted Chris Evans to ask why he didn't play this year Wink
Report Catch Me ifyoucan October 3, 2018 4:37 PM BST
JP will tee it up alongside Ryder Cup vice-captain Padraig Harrington again this week in Scotland. McManus and Harrington have teamed up to win the pro-am section of the tournament on two previous occasions, in 2002 and 2006. They begin from the 10th tee at Kingsbarns on this Thursday morning at 10.50am then play Carnousite on Friday and St Andrew’s on Saturday.

JP’s son Kieran holds the record number of wins in this team competition with three victories - Kieran teamed up with Jamie Donaldson to claim the title in 2017 when they romped to victory with a stunning 16-under-par final round team score of 56 on the Old Course at St Andrews - in 2009 when partnered by Soren Hansen and in 2014 when he teamed up with Peter Lawrie. Kieran plays alongside professional Freddie Jacobson this time round, with his defence of the team title beginning from the 10th tee at St Andrew’s on Thursday.
The brother, Gerry McManus also tees it up, partnered by Shane Lowry.

A host of the world’s top sports stars are taking part in the Pro-Am this week including multiple Olympic rowing champion Sir Steve Redgrave, making his 18th straight appearance, cricketers Michael Vaughan, Kevin Pietersen, Allan Lamb and Shane Warne, Irish rugby legend Brian O’Driscoll, 20-times National Hunt champion jockey Sir Tony McCoy and Dutch football legend Ruud Gullit.
The music stars competing include Keane’s Tom Chaplin, Linkin Park’s David Farrell, Ronan Keating and Brian McFadden, of Boyzone and Westlife respectively, Mike Rutherford from Genesis, and hugely popular legends Huey Lewis and Bon Jovi’s Tico Torres.
Other celebrities in the 2018 Alfred Dunhill Links Championship field are Matthew Goode, Hugh Grant, Peter Jones, Greg Kinnear, Wladimir Klitschko, Allan Lamb, Kyle MacLachlan & Piers Morgan.


Some 168 professionals are paired with 168 amateurs and play each course in a rotation over the first three days - those teams are grouped into 42 foursomes, with 14 groups playing each day on one of three courses - the Old Course at St. Andrews Golf Links, Carnoustie Golf Club and Kingsbarns Golf Links. The cut is made after three rounds so the 60 leading professionals and ties play in the final round, along with the 20 lowest scoring pro-am teams, regardless of the professional’s individual score, on St. Andrews Old. (Any ties that spill over beyond the 20-team limit leads to a tiebreaker). Devil
Report Catch Me ifyoucan October 3, 2018 6:20 PM BST
Pro-Am winners btw.....

2017 Jamie Donaldson & Kieran McManus
Danny Willett & Jonathan Smart
Florian Fritsch & Michael Ballack
Peter Lawrie & Kieran McManus
Thomas Levet & David Sayer
Alexander Noren & Ernesto Bertarelli
Nick Dougherty & Chris Evans (2011)
Robert Karlsson & Dermot Desmond (2010)
Soren Hansen & Kieran McManus
John Bickerton & Bruce Watson
Scott Strange & Robert Coe
Harrington & JP (2006)
Henrik Stenson & Rurik Gobel
Fred Couples & Craig Heatley
Sam & Daniel Torrance
Harrington & JP (2002)
Brett Rumford & Chris Peacock (first year 2001)
Report Catch Me ifyoucan October 7, 2018 8:37 PM BST
TEAM RESULT...
1st Haotong Li and Allen Zhang -35 67 64 61 61 = 253
2 Thongchai Jaidee and Scott Desano -34 64 65 64 61 = 254
3 Nacho Elvira and John Van Wyk -32 64 60 68 64 = 256
4 Tony Finau and Ryan Smith -31 69 61 66 61 = 257
5 Alvaro Quiros and Paul Harris -30 70 67 56 65 =  258 - (16under - 8 nett birdies & 4 nett eagles in St. Andrews - with Harris on the card for 6 holes with a par, 3 birds and 2 nett eagles on 11th & 12th).
5 Tommy Fleetwood and Ogden Phipps  -30 69 62 62 65 = 258
7 Brandon Stone and Alex Acquavella -29 65 68 61 65 = 259
8 Chris Wood and Ric Lewis -28 66 63 67 64 = 260
8 Tapio Pulkkanen and Robert Hissom -28 69 61 63 67 = 260
10th Lucas Bjerregaard and Dan Friedkin  -27 68 62 67 64 = 261
16th Freddie Jacobson and Kieran McManus -22 67 63 66 70 = 266

Mr Harris is a retired South African director of Investment Company RMB, which has a large holding in South African bank FirstRand, of which he was formerly chief executive.
A member of De Zalze, Leopard Creek, Plettenburg Bay, River Club and Steenberg, this is the 16th time he has played in the Alfred Dunhill Links. He was runner-up in the 2014 Team Championship, playing with Brooks Koepka. Mr Harris played with Robert Rock in 2010. Says his worst golfing moment was when he drove out of bounds on the 1st hole at St Andrews to the left, then followed that by driving out of bounds to the right. https://www.alfreddunhilllinks.com/players/amateurs/ Devil
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