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20 Jan 21 19:19
Date Joined: 16 Feb 06
| Topic/replies: 26 | Blogger: richdeniro's blog
Bit of a long post and not meant as in a woe is me kind of way, just started typing and wanted to put it down on paper. Am sure there are a million posts like this all over the internet but maybe it will be cathartic.

I have been gambling/trading on Betfair since 2005 and last week requested a deposit v withdrawal statement which showed that I have lost a little over £35,000 since then. It has put into perspective just how hard it is to make any extra money on the side and am, not for the first time, thinking it really is time to call it a day.

I guess a £2-3k loss every year isn't a huge amount in the grand scheme of things and was probably just about the amount I could afford to lose but added up it equates to well over a years salary which makes it all the more depressing especially as I fell hook line and sinker in hoping that gambling might be the golden ticket to making a little bit extra cash that might give me a slightly better quality of life.

I guess that's the reason most of us get into gambling really, the hope of being the 0.1% that actually do make money. For me I have always been fairly unremarkable I guess, live and work in London in a fairly average job always in the 25-35k mark and with no real creative talent or the extroversion or confidence to make much of a career - personality type is INFJ so I am very aware of my flaws and also fairly cynical of the working world having spent almost a year unemployed due to the financial crash and worked for pretty bad employers. I guess gambling/trading gave me the same hope that the lottery has but that it felt more realistic a dream to stumble across some sort of system that might get me out of my one bedroom flat and into being able to own my own home and not have that permanent worry about money. My brother also has severe mental health issues and was effectively made homeless by the coalition government when the austerity cuts hit for a few weeks in 2016 which made me double down on my efforts as I never wanted my family to go through that again so sought to try and make money to deal with that.

But after 15 years and having just turned 40, I've read almost everything there is to read about systems, I've paid tipsters, invested in automated betting software, trying spread betting on IG and countless other things I haven't even come close to making the money I lost back in order to break even.

Is it completely hopeless? Has anyone ever made it work or successfully made back a massive chunk they have lost over the years? Or even just stumbled across a system that works for them after many years? At the moment I've resorted to putting anywhere between £2 and £10 on ridiculous 20 leg accumulators in an attempt to win my money back which seems ridiculous and is just increasing that losses figure.

Can anyone recommend any other way to make a decent amount of cash every month? I'm not a shirker and always happy to put the graft in but everything just seems impossible - I've tried dropshipping, buying and selling at auctions, share trading, doing things on fivver, etc but after almost two decades of trying am now thinking I should just accept that this is my lot.
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Report Latalomne January 21, 2021 11:26 AM GMT
If you don't have an edge that enables you to win betting singles, you sure as hell will not have one betting 20-leg accumulators!  All you are doing there is compounding the bookmaker's edge (over-round) with each additional selection you add.

Find a sport you enjoy or at least can tolerate watching an awful lot of.  Specialise in it to the point where you know more about the names than the market does.  The only way to make money betting in the long-term is to know when the prices are wrong and bet only then. 

In all honesty, if you're not winning after 15 years+, you probably don't have the right mentality to ever win from it.
Report kid January 21, 2021 3:09 PM GMT
Alright mate,like someone said you need an edge, that hopefully can get you a nice few quid coming in.Recently while in hospital recovering from a major op, I was going thru loads of unread emails,the usual rubbish promising to win u loads and so on,anyway as I wasn’t going nowhere for quite a while I looked at one of the so called experts tipping services, didn’t pay for anything just looked at the results over a 2 year period, until I figured it out. I then added my own little bits to this system and am still adjusting slightly to improve it, but am showing good results.give me a contact email and will tell u more, it’s pretty easy,do a paper test for a couple of weeks,think you will be impressed, no con,no subscription just prepared to show you,you can win on a regular basis.
Report richdeniro January 21, 2021 6:28 PM GMT
Thanks both for the responses - have sent you a private message mate, my email address is
Report reb January 22, 2021 6:01 PM GMT
richdeniro, you should have a read of Barton Bank's thread, "Retiring after Saturday - Good luck to you all", on this forum.

Lots of good advice and incisive perception from Barton and others regarding the futility, nowadays, of trying to make money from betting.

As well as the financial impact, you should also take account of the time you are spending on your betting activity - admittedly probably not as relevant during these coronavirus times as it would be in the normal scheme of things.

I've brought Barton's thread back to the top of this forum for you. Enjoy life.
Report Slicer January 24, 2021 12:33 PM GMT
Hi Rich.
I make jokes on these forums but this post is serious. CONGRATULATIONS. You have come to realise that throwing good money after bad is not for you. Regard the money lost as money spent on an expensive hobby which must now come to an end. £3k ish a year on a hobby is not over the top if you can afford it but WELL DONE on being in control. You summed it up in the 1st line of your 4th paragraph: 0.1%. You have given it enough time to "find a way" of joining this elusive exclusive club & you haven't made it, just like 99.9% of other BetFairians. It's not the end of the world as long as you stop NOW! The money you lost is gone forever-you'll NEVER get it back You realise this & accept it. Systems are so successful that bookies will operate them for you.The saying "A goose that lays golden eggs is never for sale" has never been so relevent in the current political & covid situation. If I made so much money from information or a system why in the world would I NEED to sell it to make more money. And don't believe these con men who say they need more outlets to get their money on. It's not true.

The solution to life is to be CONTENT, whatever that means to you. Hold onto your hard earned money. Stay away from Cryptocurrencies CFDs futures etc because the professional & commissions will have you beat. Develop further interests in something you actually enjoy doing that doesn't cost too much. If you are creative, make something constructive so you can see the end product.  Finally congratulations on stopping before you get into problem territory. Good luck for the future, but not if you continue gambling!
Report Shanelee1966 January 24, 2021 7:33 PM GMT
rich - take a 6 month break, i did a few years ago. Lost too much and spent 40 hours a week doing it.

Self exclude on here is dead easy.
Report richdeniro January 26, 2021 8:55 PM GMT
Thanks all for the replies. I'll stick to the lottery once in a blue moon from now on :)
Report bluebook January 26, 2021 9:14 PM GMT
First of all, if you're suffering from depression, your capacity for decision making will be seriously impaired. That may well be why after 15 years of betting you've never made a breakthrough.

Then again, it may simply be because being a consistent winner is very hard.

Whatever the case, I wish you all the very best in whatever you choose to do.
Report reb January 27, 2021 2:29 PM GMT
richdeniro, it's clear from your posts that you have good self-knowledge. I think you knew the answers to the questions that you posed.

Like most of us, you would like things to be better, but you seem a reasonably happy person and capable of making the right decisions in your life. It was very wise of you to request that Deposit/Withdrawals Statement from Betfair as it gave you factual knowledge of your losses on Betfair since opening your account. That knowledge and the time spent on your betting activity should help you to make the right decision for the future.

We all wish for good fortune in our lives but often don't realise just how lucky we are with what we actually have relative to the rest of the big,wide World.
Report Duncan Disordorli January 27, 2021 10:36 PM GMT
Richdeniro, excellent post. 15 years is a long time but you likely knew the truth years ago. Firstly, if all your betting was on here you didn't lose 35K you paid BF a healthy sum of that in comm. So you should take account of that as to your actual betting P/L. Being brutally honest if you had the talent to find an edge you would have found it a long time ago. In fact your losses are not that dramatic and likely show some decent years.  The bottom line is what counts though and even had you won 35K think of the countless hours you put in to achieve that. If you do quit now you are a fifty up each week, think of it that way.
Betfair in the early days had real potential but now is fully was getting that way when I retired 10 years ago. From what I hear the value has gone and if something on here looks priced too good to be true you'll know why that is. Good luck whatever your future holds.
Report richdeniro January 29, 2021 11:28 AM GMT
@Bluebook, I don't think I'm suffering from depression, maybe an existential thing as I turned 40 last year but who knows.

Thanks all for the positive replies. I think the main thing will be getting over the losses, seems such a insane amount and I'm someone who otherwise is careful and good with money... I'll wait for weeks in order to get a deal from Amazon to save £25 on something but won't think anything of depositing £500 into my Betfair account. My friends even come to me for financial advice for things such as where to invest their pension or what credit card to get for the best cashback.

I know it's been said by pretty much everyone in my shoes, what I would give just to have that money back or not depositing that first £10 back in 2006.

Thanks again though for all the positivity.
Report Slicer January 29, 2021 12:28 PM GMT
Rich-if as I said in my previous post you regard the losses as spent on a hobby over a long period of time, it doesn't seem as bad as it could do. There are so many cliched sayings, all a bit syrupy & saccharine but I'll mention them here. "Even God cannot change the past!" "The past is history, the future is mystery, but the present is a gift, that's why it's called the present!" The bottom line to the cliches is that there's nothing you can do about the money lost, forget about it. Just don't lose any more!
Report PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH February 3, 2021 9:11 AM GMT
Good decision Rich, I've been here 15 years and thankfully still hanging in there. Unless you are prepared to spend significant time learning and using Betfair tools to find an edge, then unfortunately your are doomed to lose, like so many others. Also thinly spread knowledge is fools gold because the Pros will devour you !! If you are fortunate enough to find a system that works for you, you will end up paying significant commissions over time and working for Betfair whilst risking your own money !! Every time you feel like a punt deposit your hard earned money into a savings account and have yourself a decent holiday every year, I sense you will be much happier for it Happy
Report politicspunter February 7, 2021 7:22 PM GMT
If you are just placing standard bets on normal markets such as horse racing, greyhounds or football etc, long term you are going to lose. You need to find a niche market where your knowledge is superior to odds makers and exchange punters. Do your research, form a market, wait for the prices to appear.
Report xmoneyx February 8, 2021 1:01 PM GMT
bookies - responsible gambling

no such thing , even if you cut out chasing

two biggest tax payers uk , top 3

1. bet365
3. betfred

i guess a betting bank is more responsible , but that doesnt mean no losses
Report ericster February 9, 2021 11:46 AM GMT
"responsible gambling" is an oxymoron imo.
To gamble is to act irresponsibly.
Isn't it?
Report G Hall February 10, 2021 1:05 PM GMT
Like drinking?
Report CLYDEBANK29 February 10, 2021 11:15 PM GMT
I enjoyed myself much more acting irresponsibly in my youth.  Cry
Report CLYDEBANK29 February 10, 2021 11:16 PM GMT
Acting responsibly is so fecking boring no wonder everyone is depressed these days
Report CLYDEBANK29 February 10, 2021 11:19 PM GMT
responsible gambling = gambling irresponsibly whilst maintaining your marbles.
Report ericster February 12, 2021 1:36 PM GMT

Feb 10, 2021 -- 5:15PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:

I enjoyed myself much more acting irresponsibly in my youth.

Report ericster February 12, 2021 1:37 PM GMT
Didn't we all mate, didn't we all.
Report askari1 February 13, 2021 5:57 PM GMT
To the OP--stop digging. If you've decided you don't want to lose any more, throw away the spade and turn off the site.

You are paying for Denise Large's children's private education. And paying for that of the handful of successful gamblers on here. If you're happy with that, your negative expectation bets are in a consistent way contributing a small amount towards the profits of the people consistently on the other side. Fine. All the winners here would be pleased for you to stay, if that's the case.

Somebody either has an edge or they don't. When they don't, they lose over the long term (and on average over any term). You betray your reluctance to face this truth by saying it is too difficult to make money gambling 'on the side'. It's not about the time you commit to it. A bettor with an edge and experience in one sport could formulate a strategy for another in an hour, spend a weekend back-testing it and automating it, run it (with minimal supervision) over weeks and have it live and making money in months. This would be hours, not weeks, of time put in. Less than the time you've spent subscribing to tipster services or trying out different avenues for your side income. They have a strategy that makes plus something % and you have no strategy that makes plus anything %.

To make some money, or actually just to have a more fulfilling life, find something you love. Something you are prepared to do, look at, stick with, week in week out, without the need for it to pay anything at all. If you can, make that your career. If you're trapped in a career you don't much like by family and a mortgage, think how your industry could be better (you almost certainly know this from inside), either for its clients or its workers, and see whether you can find a way of bringing in that sort of change maybe with a different employer.
Report askari1 February 13, 2021 6:23 PM GMT
Rich--stop thinking about the money and focus again on what the money is for.

Your post gives us two answers:
1) it's for a financial cushion in case your brother's health deteriorates;
2) it's to get you out of a one-bedroom flat into a house you own (your job may have done of this already if you've been promoted the normal way).

If you're in a one-bedroom flat, you are not obviously in a relationship or starting a family. And the time you could be spending looking for this (for the person, for the career that will allow it, for the life you want) you're spending betting. Or you're spending part of it betting, anyway. You've lost approximately 1 1/4 years of salary in 15 years--a bit more than 8%. There are people who spend 8% of their gross salary on mountaineering or travel overseas or dining out or a second home. You can maybe take the loss--but maybe you would have preferred going to six south-east Asian countries...? If so, the important thing to grasp is that you don't have to lose anymore. What's gone is gone. There's nothing you _have_ to make back. That's all in your head.

Don't deflect from thinking about your life by focusing on your losses (which are more manageable than many losing gamblers'). Try to clear your head and ask yourself what kind of life you want to be living.
Report politicspunter February 15, 2021 12:12 PM GMT
Very strong and sound advice. Above all, do not continue your current betting pattern, you will NEVER win.
Report stewarty b March 2, 2021 6:25 PM GMT
rich. if you don't mind me asking, what is the main sport you gamble in?
Report Mr Ed April 9, 2021 10:24 PM BST
I have been betting successfully for many years, but unfortunately any real methods of making money are not going to be in any books or on any google searches.
Report richdeniro April 15, 2021 6:59 PM BST
@stewarty b Apologies for the late reply, I've only just seen your message.

It was mainly football, usually the over 1.5 and 2.5 goals market.
Report Celtic warrior May 3, 2021 3:22 PM BST
Hi Rich,
Very thought provoking and truthful post. I am 54 and have been betting for 45 years, starting off in the usual haunts of an annual grand national/derby bet put on by my dad. For the first 20 years I bet small, and lost consistently. I would use a telephone account with Totesport, get terrible sp odds and not do much form study apart from read the raceform update and the racing post five minutes before a race in Ladbrokes, (usually ending up by backing the spotlight tip more often than not!)
I didn’t keep a record of my bets and probably lost £500-£1000 each and every year, like sand falling slowly from my pockets. I even paid Steve Lewis Hamilton £600 a year for one year to feed me a whole load of 11/8 favourites for minor Thirsk maidens. Suffice to say my increased betting only served to partially recoup my subscription costs!
My first big advance came in 1994 when I took up a free trial to the legendary Superform formbook. From then until the publications sad demise in 2008 I started to make consistent profits. I used to spend hours cross referencing back future performances which then highlighted form franking. This and superform’s excellent analysis allowed me to turn the tide.  I also started specialising in the winter in novice chases and very quickly became very knowledgeable about this area.
Throughout this time I read all the horseracing books I could get. The ones that made the real difference were the Beyer books, Mordin on time and a real eyeopener of a book , Mark Coton’s ‘On hundred hints for better betting’. I recommend this book to everyone.
In 2002 I was an early adopter of Betfair, which I use for the vast majority of bets to this day, nearly all back bets. This overnight improved my profit margin by 10% and gave me a real chance of profit in this game.
With the demise of Superform I naturally migrated to Raceform, and started using Raceform Interactive, which I still use to this day. I made a big investment in time (five hours a week) producing my own speed ratings for all weather racing only. this again have proved a profitable specialisation.
This game has changed radically over the last five years again. Big data has arrived e.g. Proform and sectional timings. To the intelligent, hardworking punter this can only be a good thing.
I would never say that I have made enough money betting to give up my day job, but it has given me immense enjoyment throughout my life and over the past ten years been profitable to a point.
In summary, my advice would be NOT to give up on this great sport but:
Build a betting bank of £2000 over say six months. Arbing free offers on bookmakers sites can easily make you £500 per year.
Find an area to specialise and then commit 5-10 hours a week to it. Watch as much videos as you can.
Adopt a consistent level stakes staking plan
ALWAYS construct your own tissue and then only bet on ‘value’ bets
Look for races with false favourites who have been overbet
Personal big one for me, don’t bet in handicaps.
Consider a stables second string with an unfashionable jockey
I am a real believer that anyone can make a profit from horseracing, but it is very very hard. However, its one of the most enjoyable parts of my whole life and I am sure most of you on the forum would agree with that.
Report Celtic warrior May 3, 2021 3:25 PM BST
Another big bookmakers trap is accumulators, where the margin their favour is multiplied upwards. The very latest 'steal' is requestabet and buildyourodds. Thes eare aggressively advertised for a reason. The punter has no real idea of the true odds, which the bookmaker does with their extensive databases. Therefore each bet willhave a massive inbuilt bookmaker margin. NEVER take part in it!
Report stewarty b May 8, 2021 5:16 AM BST
Hi there Rich. No problem with the delay. Celtic warrior has offered some good advice but that to me looks like advice for a horse racing punter which is my forte. (95% of my bets) At a guess every over 1.5 goals bet you place is odds on and you know what they say about backing odds on.

That said, I'll easily punt a 4/6 chance if it's 4/7 or worse in my tissue. There's not really much I can add if overs is your game but I wish you all the best for the future.
Report .Marksman. May 10, 2021 3:56 PM BST
Celtic Warrior the bit a really agreed with is: "it is very very hard. However, its one of the most enjoyable parts of my whole life"

For me betting is part of the fabric of my life.  The gambling commission have no idea of the harm they are actually doing when they think they try to protect us.  They have their life as career politicians & professional virtue signallers, and I have Sky Sports Racing.  They should just let me make my own decisions about my own life.
Report Celtic warrior May 11, 2021 11:46 AM BST
I think all those do Gooders will hit against the brick wall of bookies profits anyway. The gambling industry is too big to cave way to weekly affordability checks.

I would advise rich deniro to take the summer off and build a decent sized say £1000 betting bank. Maybe decide to specialise on all weather or 2 mile chasers and use the summer to steadily build up knowledge. There's plenty of free form available.

Then in autumn start with small steps say a score each bet and no more than ten bets a month. Just get a feel for how its going. Analyse why you chose that particular bet and gain in confidence slowly. Keep records but most of all enjoy this great sport of ours.

All the best.

N.b if you need any ideas ref all weather speed rating which I specialise in then drop me a message.
Report stewarty b May 12, 2021 5:16 AM BST
Celtic warrior, I hope you don't mind me asking but are you suggesting that Rich should swap sports and turn to horseracing? Out of the frying pan into the fire springs to mind. It took me many years to finally get some kind of edge. By pure chance my mentor was an independent bookmaker with a razor sharp mind. He purchased his shop due to a large bet on a horse in the 70s.

I never knew him at that time but he opened my eyes to stop the mug punting. Ill give an example... Don't be fooled by the dog bets, I have a pal who phones me if he fancies one.

From Yesterday

(relates to event settlement date)
2021-05-11 00:00

(yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm)     to    
2021-05-12 04:56

(yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm)   
Download to Spreadsheet  ?
Greyhound Racing: £365.97 |
Horse Racing: £731.81
Total P&L: £1,097.78
Greyhound Racing
Showing 1 - 7 of 7 markets
Start time    Settled date    Profit/Loss (£)
Greyhound Racing / Sunderland 11th May : A4 450m
11-May-21 17:03    11-May-21 17:12    -157.00
Greyhound Racing / Monmore 11th May : A8 480m
11-May-21 16:58    11-May-21 17:00    -150.00
Greyhound Racing / Monmore 11th May : A5 480m
11-May-21 15:58    11-May-21 16:01    210.80
Greyhound Racing / Kinsley 11th May : A2 462m
11-May-21 12:43    11-May-21 12:45    325.68
Greyhound Racing / Nottingham 11th May : A4 500m
11-May-21 12:36    11-May-21 12:39    -100.00
Greyhound Racing / Romford 11th May : S1 575m
11-May-21 11:24    11-May-21 11:27    260.49
Greyhound Racing / Central Park 11th May : D2 265m
11-May-21 10:46    11-May-21 11:18    -24.00
Profit and Loss is shown net of commission.

All times are UKT  ?  unless otherwise stated.

Betting Profit & Loss enables you to review the bets you have placed. Specify the time period during which your bets were placed, the type of markets on which the bets were placed, and the sport.

Betting Profit & Loss is available online for the past 3 months. Please contact the Helpdesk  ?  if you need to view your Betting Profit & Loss going back further.

A very good day for me and here's my 3 month P/L...

Last 3 Months

(relates to event settlement date)
2021-02-12 04:59

(yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm)     to    
2021-05-12 04:59

(yyyy-mm-dd hh:mm)   
Download to Spreadsheet  ?
Football: £265.53 |
Greyhound Racing: £240.11 |
Horse Racing: £6,266.01 |
Snooker: -£89.00
Total P&L: £6,682.65
Showing 1 - 4 of 4 markets
Start time    Settled date    Profit/Loss (£)
Football / Getafe v Real Madrid : Match Odds
18-Apr-21 20:00    18-Apr-21 21:54    75.80
Football / Everton v Tottenham : Correct Score
16-Apr-21 20:01    16-Apr-21 21:55    -7.23
Football / Liverpool v Real Madrid : Correct Score
14-Apr-21 20:00    14-Apr-21 21:54    196.98
Football / Blackburn v Preston : Half Time/Full Time
12-Feb-21 19:46    12-Feb-21 21:42    -0.02
Profit and Loss is shown net of commission.

All times are UKT  ?  unless otherwise stated.

Betting Profit & Loss enables you to review the bets you have placed. Specify the time period during which your bets were placed, the type of markets on which the bets were placed, and the sport.

Betting Profit & Loss is available online for the past 3 months. Please contact the Helpdesk  ?  if you need to view your Betting Profit & Loss going back further.

That may look rosy but I've had some horrors on here. A very wise man who used to post on here told me if I was to make any profit on here, any edge I got would have to involve backing many losers.

Thankfully, things have been going well lately but I could easily share some horror stories.

I can't give much advice on here but if one was to sit down with me I could, at best let them know how to lose less if that makes sense and perhaps turn the corner.


I should add that I don't work but have another income which is not benefits just a wee investment I made when I worked offshore. Anything I make on here is a bonus which miss stew will testify to!

PS I can go through the cards all night and still not have a selection, some call that discipline. I call it patience.
Report G Hall May 13, 2021 8:37 AM BST
Excellent returns stew.

The star sports betting interviews conducted by Simon Nott, are excellent and the current one with Rich Hassall is very good, well worth a listen.
Report Celtic warrior May 13, 2021 10:38 AM BST
Hi think rich should just chill out for summer build up a betting bank and find a specialisation firvthe autumn. Enjoy the sport. Its magic
Report ericster May 13, 2021 11:51 AM BST
Best to just chill out and not put a time on it imo.

I've had bad runs, haven't we all? And I've just binned the whole lot and walked away. It doesn't take much for me to lose heart, I don't like losing, lol! How absurd is that? And I won't throw good money after bad, well, not too much.

Anyway, sooner or later I've heard or read something, somewhere, and it has  given rise to another "eureka moment" [another false dawn, when WILL I ever learn?] and off I've gone again.

Some good posts in here, WD gentlemen, wd.
Report macarony May 15, 2021 3:38 PM BST
@ the op you say that you are just an average man in a average job living in one bedroom flat. Most people have an interest in something and enjoy doing it, you are only 40 maybe it is time to rethink your life. This is what I told my 3 kids when they were growing up. 1 do something you like. 2 do something you are good at and 3 do something people are going to want to pay you for. My oldest two didn't follow my advise but my youngest son did and he is doing all three and happy
Report macarony May 15, 2021 3:53 PM BST
If you are employed and are PAYE one of the best ways to make money is a simple AVC you make 20% plus if you put £100 per month in an AVC it only costs you around £77. most of us at work are putting £500 plus a month depending on what you can afford
Report know all May 18, 2021 11:46 AM BST
Been betting 40 years still yearly profits but takes a lot of time and always wondered if my skill could be applied to other investments i gave up raceform interactive after 15 years couple of months ago was a superform man before that as i now only do saturdays big meetings because its near impossible doing all the meetings unless your really in to it full time, im on lots of stuff on there that horse racing forum told me was good and it is, spending lots of less time on the horses and i found crypto joined forums on reddit and studied using the same skills as the horses research spent months and im finding it very exiting and the same ups and downs of winning and losing but a lot more profitable than horses.
Bought bitcoin and sold at a great profit but realized if you buy now at 32k to double it has to go to 64k, so bought others buying and selling not all at a profit but most profit.
i found a coin at 1p-2p went to 3p sold then struggled to get back in but did at 3p then realized this is the one gone all in and went to 6p after recent crash now 4p but every increase of 3p i double my money and you could stake it at around 4% interest
its gambling its risky but last week when hit the high of 6p like winning on the horses as it goes ever higher standing me a large profit thousands not hundreds but with the crash now 4p should i have sold thoughts but confident will hit 20-30p by end of year and end up in a few years at a £1 imo so its a big price winning coin im after
use the reddit forums everyday and do research on you tube and the like, i like its fca on there website in the uk but crypto not regulated, and you can pay using a debit card or transfer its a easy push button to buy or sell and you can research on there, you can buy £10 worth of bitcoin, its a very profitable hobby and crypto will disrupt the banking system imo hold on to your hat
Report politicspunter May 19, 2021 7:44 AM BST
Premium Bonds are worth a look. The dividend on them has been cut quite dramatically recently but they are safe, you can cash them in quickly and all winnings are tax free.
Report ericster May 19, 2021 12:23 PM BST
And you [could] just hit the big one.
Why not?
Report politicspunter May 20, 2021 7:57 AM BST
As a guide, I have had premium bonds since 2004. My holding has averaged roughly £20K. In that time, the biggest win I have had was £500. I have also had many £100 wins and I have lost count of the number of £50 and £25 wins. Currently, you have a 1 in 34,500 chance of winning per month ie if your holding was £34,500 you will win on average one prize per month. You just never know if a chunky win is on the way.
Report Shanelee1966 May 20, 2021 8:20 AM BST
Gambling is a basterd but our busterd
Report tinkyvinky June 16, 2021 7:00 PM BST
Lifetime summaryApplies across 28,915 Exchange markets
Gross profit & loss



Other charges

Premium Charges

Total charges (21.02%)

Maximum possible premium charge







It is possible to make money but it is not worth the time anymore for last 3-5 years.
Report PeteTheBloke July 29, 2021 8:07 PM BST
That depends if you enjoy it, tinky.

I'd play if I was making a few quid. I'd stop if I was losing.

If I broke even? Not sure...I'd probably see it as a reason to invest a bit more effort.
Report Dr Crippen July 31, 2021 9:18 PM BST
What does it matter if you lose as long as you bet to minimumn stakes?

If you show a profit over the long term then increase your stakes.

The golden rule is never bet more than what you have won.

For if you can't win to small stakes, then what makes you think you can win to larger stakes when you'll be under pressure.

It's all to do with temperament.
Report the tardis August 4, 2021 5:42 AM BST
A bit of plain speaking at the end - hope you're not offended.
You've tried every angle but can't find an edge eh. I'm in Australia, been pro since 2003, and know quite a few that make good money via betting. The winners I know fall into two categories. (1) Horse Racing winners - they do hours and hours of form, speed maps etc but at the core are just good judges. They have their losing runs, but never chase. They only look at the yearly result - not monthly and certainly not daily. They frame 90% markets based on all their work and observations and bet accordingly within that 90% framework.
(2) Sports Winners. They specialise and keep huge statistical databases and generally specialise on one sport. Never emotional and support no team or player. 'Emotion guaranteed to turn you into a long term loser' one told me years ago. Only bet when the stats/odds tell them to.
There's many other types of winners obviously, especially the maths/algorhythm geniuses and automated players, but I'm old school and these are the people I know.
That's the sort of bettor you're often competing against. Very hard to beat.
Give it away mate. There's no dishonour. Most try but fail in the end.
Report macarony August 16, 2021 11:19 AM BST
@op with the benefit of hindsight you would have been better off taking a part time job on a Saturday night either delivering pizza or working in a bar that way you would be making 3 or 4 grand a year instead of losing it. From what you describe living in London in a one bed flat on less than 40 grand a year can't be good for your mental health do you have a good reason for staying in London?
Report Tancred August 17, 2021 4:37 PM BST
You would have done better to have invested the money into your pension fund. Gambling should always be done only with money that you can not only afford to lose, but EASILY afford to lose! I have probably wasted as much money as you, but in my case not gambling but buying stuff that I liked but did not need and could not sell easily when I got tired of it. That's life. I'm 54 and have been interested in betting since 1990 but never found that 'holy grail' - I don't believe there is one. The only people who make money (except the bookmakers) are the cheats with inside information - there is no system that works, not one. You can probably scrape a quid a day in profits by backing Man City and Man Utd to win every time at ridiculously poor odds but it's not worth the risk. This is the real problem in gambling - the odds. Anything worth backing has absolutely sh*t odds so you end up making very risky bets in order to get a decent return, but then you usually lose. This is why bookmakers make money. They suck hope from gamblers, like leeches suck blood.
Report G Hall August 17, 2021 6:42 PM BST
If one decides to back over 1.5 goals at say three's on (hypothetical obviously, then one loser in every four bets equal break even territory. The problem usually arises when the inevitable losing bet/s occur, and chasing mode kicks in.

A lot of punters can do the homt have some well researched bets, and yet will chase on almost anything when things go pear shaped. It is such a psychological test.

As VDW said numerous times,in the 70's and 80's, it's all about


By God he wasn't wrong.
Report G Hall August 17, 2021 6:44 PM BST
*do the homework*
Report politicspunter August 18, 2021 12:28 PM BST
You are throwing your money away.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 6, 2021 11:28 AM BST
"Premium Bonds are worth a look. The dividend on them has been cut quite dramatically recently but they are safe, you can cash them in quickly and all winnings are tax free"

I bought £30k's worth a week ago.  Will likely top up to the max at the end of this month.  Buy them at the end of the month if you do as the monthly draw is at the beginning of the month and it takes a month for them to be in the draw.  Return is 1% but most cash savings get zero interest atm.

If you've got the money and your circumstances permit.  I'd look at airbnb as an investment.
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 6, 2021 5:59 PM BST
20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the
DOT is 12%.

Anyone not in crypto right now needs to take the time to research and understand it  because when it becomes mainstream you will have missed the opportunity of a lifetime.

Bartering was replaced by paper/coins...paper/coins is going to replaced by the digital blockchain....think about it.
Report politicspunter September 6, 2021 6:29 PM BST
What goes up, must come down (minus commission).
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 6, 2021 8:51 PM BST
Not sure you understand crypto other than what you have heard cynics say.
It is natural for some people to not like change.
Embrace this one as its the new monetary system plus more. Innovation in finances. A new hedge against inflation.
If banks dont conform , they are toast.
If people dont get on now , dont complain you missed the boat to make some money.
Report politicspunter September 6, 2021 9:17 PM BST
I understand that markets don't go up every day.
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 7, 2021 8:05 AM BST
i think you need to stick to your premium bonds mate.
where the value goes down because of inflation.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 7, 2021 10:29 AM BST
"20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the
DOT is 12%.

Otherwise known as a Ponzi scheme
Report politicspunter September 7, 2021 11:26 AM BST
Anyone that believes that gambling on the value of crypto currencies is a "hedge against inflation" is seriously deluded.
Report politicspunter September 7, 2021 10:48 PM BST
"20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the
DOT is 12%.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 8, 2021 2:02 PM BST
That's only a 25% fall in 3 days since G1 tipped it up.
Report politicspunter September 8, 2021 2:41 PM BST
Wonder if he has considered Premium Bonds?
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 8, 2021 4:29 PM BST
I got in on kava at 3$ and 3.5$

on the last dip i sold all and bought up , luckily , not far off when it bottomed out.
only one thats done badly is ada as i bought on it last rise.

yesterday only managed to top up 2 as they didnt drop enough.
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 8, 2021 4:35 PM BST
they will all rise soon as yesterday was people who leveraged the rise and got liquidated.

i personally would like another 10-20% shaved off so i can get the rest of my bank on at decent prices.
Report politicspunter September 8, 2021 5:13 PM BST
So you lost approx 25% of your holding on Kava yesterday?
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 9, 2021 11:45 AM BST
no im still holding the same amount.
the value dropped the other day by around is now recovering as are many other alts.

this is normal.
you gotta take advantage of dips to get in.
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 9, 2021 11:46 AM BST
current price as we speak is 6.53$....that is around 100% profit for me plus the kava interest.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 9, 2021 12:32 PM BST
Irrespective of your aftertiming posts you are standing on a Betfair post crypto loss as things stand
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 9, 2021 2:41 PM BST
lol...i posted up what i was holding at that point.
no mention of what price i bought at.
someone presumed i was making a loss...i corrected him.

go check the graphs during the may drop...those prices were freely available.

how are your "inflation busting" premium bonds doing ?
Report G1_Jockey_4 September 9, 2021 2:45 PM BST
i and many took time to research crypto...yes it is volatile.
Not as volatile as betting ...i know from experience with the peaks n troughs of winning and losing runs.

I gave up a few years ago because of business and even though im ready to jump back in , i think its best to wait for a few years because crypto replacing the current money system is a once in a lifetime event where people can make money from.

why tie up funds in betting when they can gain from crypto?
makes zero sense.
why tie fund up in shares when the short term outlook due to brexit kicking in looks dodgy as....same goes for property...
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 9, 2021 3:08 PM BST
All that matters on here (if you are giving advice) is the price at the time posted.  That should be obvious.  If someone in the RP is tipping Fulham to win the league, the price in August is irrelevant.  It would be quite embarrassing for them to follow up by saying well I backed them in August at 3 times the price.  Picking and choosing past unproven punting successes, makes you seem desperate rather than smart.  I've prolly done that that myself before tbf, as have many people, but most recognise it for what it is.
Report politicspunter September 9, 2021 3:30 PM BST

Sep 6, 2021 -- 11:59AM, G1_Jockey_4 wrote:

20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the up...bingoDOT is 12%.Anyone not in crypto right now needs to take the time to research and understand it

Report politicspunter September 9, 2021 3:31 PM BST
G1_Jockey_4 • September 6, 2021 5:59 PM BST
20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the
DOT is 12%.

Anyone not in crypto right now needs to take the time to research and understand it  because when it becomes mainstream you will have missed the opportunity of a lifetime.

Bartering was replaced by paper/coins...paper/coins is going to replaced by the digital blockchain....think about it.

Kava price when posted was $8.03.
Report politicspunter September 9, 2021 3:41 PM BST
The price Jockey bought his Kava shares at is irrelevant.
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 9, 2021 3:44 PM BST
Putting most of your eggs in the crypto basket and if it does very well there will be tax to pay.  You won't get a tax rebate if the crypto bubble bursts as you won't have profits to offset the loss against.
Report Gin September 10, 2021 2:13 PM BST
After reading this thread, I thought I would do a forum search for the earliest mention of Bitcoin.

I found the following thread posted in July 2010!!!!!ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked*

At the time the Bitcoin price was $0.08 - it is now in the region of $46,000 giving a return of approx 57,500,000%

A £1000 investment would now be worth half a billion poundsCool (I know it would be impossible to hold the investment for that long but it's just a bit of fun)

I hope Psychic Muttley is relaxing on his own Carribean island!LaughLaugh
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 10, 2021 9:08 PM BST
there must be some buyers who lost their Bitcoin IDs
Report Gin September 11, 2021 10:32 AM BST
A quick google search will throw up plenty of stories of lost keys to Bitcoin fortunes.

There was a Welsh guy who threw his PC hard drive away that contained the key to a wallet with 7000 Bitcoins in!

People who have any significant amount of BTC really should investigate keeping it in cold storage.
Report Gin September 11, 2021 10:34 AM BST
Report DIE LINKE September 15, 2021 5:33 PM BST
Stefan Thomas, a German-born programmer living in San Francisco, has two guesses left to figure out a password that is worth, as of this week, about $220 million.

The password will let him unlock a small hard drive, known as an IronKey, which contains the private keys to a digital wallet that holds 7,002 Bitcoin. While the price of Bitcoin dropped sharply on Monday, it is still up more than 50 percent from just a month ago, when it passed its previous all-time high of around $20,000.

The problem is that Mr. Thomas years ago lost the paper where he wrote down the password for his IronKey, which gives users 10 guesses before it seizes up and encrypts its contents forever. He has since tried eight of his most commonly used password formulations — to no avail.

“I would just lay in bed and think about it,” Mr. Thomas said. “Then I would go to the computer with some new strategy, and it wouldn’t work, and I would be desperate again.”

Bitcoin, which has been on an extraordinary and volatile eight-month run, has made a lot of its holders very rich in a short time, even as the coronavirus pandemic has ravaged the world economy.

But the cryptocurrency’s unusual nature has also meant that many people are locked out of their Bitcoin fortunes as a result of lost or forgotten keys. They have been forced to watch, helpless, as the price has risen and fallen sharply, unable to cash in on their digital wealth.

Of the existing 18.5 million Bitcoin, around 20 percent — currently worth around $140 billion — appear to be in lost or otherwise stranded wallets, according to the cryptocurrency data firm Chainalysis. Wallet Recovery Services, a business that helps find lost digital keys, said it had gotten 70 requests a day from people who wanted help recovering their riches, three times the number of a month ago.
Report DIE LINKE September 15, 2021 5:37 PM BST
For the last two guesses I would try password and 123456
Report macarony September 15, 2021 7:38 PM BST
Get Allam Millyard on the job he knows nothing about computers, but he solves all of his engineering problems in bed he never uses a diagram or chart but this guy can make a better motorbike than Triumph BMW and Harley Davivdson witha few files and a hachsaw
Report CLYDEBANK29 September 16, 2021 8:26 PM BST
20% is a huge number.  I imagine it must keep the price higher because it limits the numbers of sellers
Report G1_Jockey_4 October 26, 2021 5:23 PM BST
politicspunter • September 9, 2021 3:41 PM BST
The price Jockey bought his Kava shares at is irrelevant.

So when i held some banks shares years ago...the price i bought at ...lloyds 25p...was not relevant?
Report G1_Jockey_4 October 26, 2021 5:40 PM BST
I don't know what your risk tolerance is , although this is a gambling site so it should be high lol , but hope you havent missed the boat on the crypto gaming hype ;)

tbh i think there will be a correction which may make it look like its not gonna take off...use that correction when it happens to get in on it.
I havent invested in games in particular...but rather crytos linked to how games will NFTs and networks where games will look to run on...

we are living in a time where the changeover of the fiat system to crypto is going to change quite a bit...innovation is coming with it.
Report politicspunter October 27, 2021 8:29 AM BST

Sep 6, 2021 -- 11:59AM, G1_Jockey_4 wrote:

20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the up...bingoDOT is 12%.Anyone not in crypto right now needs to take the time to research and understand it

Report politicspunter October 27, 2021 8:31 AM BST
G1_Jockey_4 • September 6, 2021 5:59 PM BST
20% interest on staked Kava right now..pad twice a week plus those rewards go up or down with the crypto is on the
DOT is 12%.

Anyone not in crypto right now needs to take the time to research and understand it  because when it becomes mainstream you will have missed the opportunity of a lifetime.

Bartering was replaced by paper/coins...paper/coins is going to replaced by the digital blockchain....think about it.

When this was originally posted the Kava price was $8.03. Today it is $5.72.
Report politicspunter October 27, 2021 8:34 AM BST

Oct 26, 2021 -- 11:23AM, G1_Jockey_4 wrote:

politicspunter • September 9, 2021 3:41 PM BSTThe price Jockey bought his Kava shares at is irrelevant.So when i held some banks shares years ago...the price i bought at ...lloyds 25p...was not relevant?

The only thing that is relevant is what the share price was when you recommended it and what the price is now.

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