Premium charges

What?  Heregeld? Scutage? Carugage? Maltolt?

PC calculations discount/exclude your single largest win, so if you hit a massive one-off winner, it won't instantly hit you with a large PC bill. However, if you already had a slightly smaller huge win in your past betting, I assume that would suddenly fall back into the PC calculations and your lifetime total charge %s would take a hit. (I think that's how it works, can anyone confirm?)

As ever, premium charges are madly complicated and lead to confusion. Still, no-one is going to turn down a £1000 100/1 winner

PC calculations discount/exclude your single largest win, so if you hit a massive one-off winner, it won't instantly hit you with a large PC bill.
   This is not correct unless they have changed the rules lately.

  One big win exempt only come into play if your big win is more than 50 % of your total winnings , which is unlikely in this case as he has done more than 28.000 markets.

Oops, thanks for the correction Eddie. I didn't realise they had the 'more than 50% of your total winnings' clause. Premium charge gets more confusing each time I look at it...

you would not get any p/c as they give you one weeks grace after you have used your £1000 p/c allowance to let you know that you are eligible to p/c, think they email you to let you know. this is my understanding on this matter

i remember when i got my first (and only) premium charge, i didnt actually have to pay it cos it came out of that £1,000 allowance. it was about 5 years ago though i think. pretty sure it still applies though. since then ive done my tits in so it doesnt matter.

so why then, if according to your own statements you are just a sideshow on here (i strongly agree btw), do you and your peers choose to flood the forum with silly comments on a not-done-yet merger deal nobody can assess with any kind of accuracy as of today

fixed wake up! Betfair are being taken over by Paddy Power, it just doesn't get any lower than that. When you consider what betfair used to be and what they have turned in to now, they are nothing short of a laughing stock.

its a con just say someone won 50k has to pay charge of 40% then loses nearly all of that then slowly wins it back when he hits 30k he has to pay charge
in the sportsbook price rush is a win win for betfair they layoff on exchange if they win the layer pays off,if not betfair gets comm.,

Aug 27, 2015 -- 3:23PM, fixed wrote:

so why then, if according to your own statements you are just a sideshow on here (i strongly agree btw), do you and your peers choose to flood the forum with silly comments on a not-done-yet merger deal nobody can assess with any kind of accuracy as of today

are you familiar with the concept of a 'forum'? if not, try looking it up in a dictionary. thats one of them big paper things with lots of words in em.

Premium Charge Portal was being updated with great efficiency until recently.

Paddy Power Mgt must have cut back on staff in the Premium Charges Dept.

The Premium Charges Avoidance Team (Betfair's In-House HMRC) are safe though.

Its all take take take from betfair as you can pay the premium charge for weeks on end then when you hit a losing run do you get a rebate to take you back to the minimum of 20% of charges but in reality 22.5% ? No you don't as you then do not pay PC until you get back to your previous winning amount before the loss however you might never get back to that winning amount which means you have paid well over the 20% charges,in my opinion there should be rebates when you are losing to keep you at that level of 20% but I know this is never going to happen.

You sum up well mate.

These charges were the beginning of the end for Betfair

You sum up well mate.

These charges were the beginning of the end for Betfair

Annoying the portal hasn't been updated on time this week as I was looking "forward" to seeing how much I would have to pay, this being my first week of paying it.  Got a vague idea how much it will be but nice to see it in print all the same

Still not updated

Paddy Power Mgt at Betfair may have bigger fish to fry such as project Exchange Closure?

You can access it these days via 'my account' - 'activity' drop down

that was re cdog post btw - if they haven't updated that yet either, obviously makes no difference but took me a while to notice it had even been added to the main account links.

Good spot Brentford

Wonder if the weekly plunder of accounts will go ahead without advance notification of charges

It did last time. Even after requesting the figures from Betfair more than once I still have no official PC data from 22/06/15 to 28/06/15.

Anybody been raided?

The Premium Charge Portaloo Team has been downsized and staff transferred to the Betfair Premium Charge Avoidance Team and Betfair Bailiffs.

I was 'raided' at 12:02pm, but when I looked the portal was up and running too (and there was even a 3p discrepancy between what it said, and what it was (in my favour surprisingly)

The law says terms and conditions has to be fair to both parties, how the hell is this fair to both.
bound to be challenged soon.

Has the old portal been discontinued?

I'm getting directed to the following address: http://content.betfair.com/content/splash/unplanned/index.asp, with a message saying we're experiencing problems.

Yet, the premium charges on the account pages are working.

It's not a massive problem, but I prefer the layout of the old, traditional portal than the account pages.

I hope not. It's far easier to pick up data from the old portal.

Agree - it's so much better laid out. I've got the same page today too. Looks like the old portal has been discontinued.

Another Betfair innovation that makes things more difficult. Sometimes I despair.

I suppose they've killed it because the old PC portal made it easy to explain why the charges are occurring.

but who cares ? different design so what thats girls stuff, just move on
if one always complains he will never be heard

Another phucking downgrade from the Betfair IT dept.

....and when you print it its a right mess, spread across 2 pages with meaningless krap about bingo, arcades, poker, vegas slots and all sorts of utter ****.

Betfair seem determined to upset their most loyal customers.

They are effectively saying buggar off if you dont like it, we dont want you here anymore.

Tried to have a look at the cricket Aus v NZ 1st Test and half the pages don't load. Probably because it's on the old site. It is a mess.

Nov 4, 2015 -- 7:53PM, fixed wrote:

but who cares ? different design so what thats girls stuff, just move on if one always complains he will never be heard

I do, cheers Freud.

So this new page doesn't tell you how much pc you've incurred for the week - unless it takes you under your total charges threshold - which makes no sense. Unlike the old version - very annoying.

this is embarrasing

Premium charge incurred for the week is called "Premium charge this week"....fancy for sure, who would have thought... further all the information given is exactly the same that had been given on the old page...they just integrated it into your activity menu to remove the need to bookmark an external page, so it actually makes sense ...design altered a bit, which is of course meaningless, however it seems to be enough to throw some bongo people on here completely off guard

On the old page it would tell you not only the pc you would pay but also the pc incurred. This information is no longer available, it simply says zero. I work it out myself anyway but its good to check with bf figures, still a bit embarrasing for betfair I agree!!!

I've been notified that I'll be on the 40% pc charge from Nov 30th. I guess I'll try carrying on but it won't be easy as I'm not a bot user or a trader, I seed markets and supply liquidity. It does seem that BF don't care about that, there are dozens of football markets remaining empty every day, there could soon be more if/when I leave.

If anyone wants to chat about methods or ideas to churn comm and reduce pc, please pm me. I will be new to the charge, my total comm is around 22% so have never paid normal pc, so the 40% is going to challenge my survival for sure. Also interested to hear from other 40% payers as to whether it finished them on BF.

Btw, I'm not bitter about the charge, I've had a good run, but if it pushes me away then BF won't increase their take from me from 22 to 40%, they'll reduce it to zero. My markets will be emptier, punters matching my bets may go elsewhere. How can this possibly be good?

Maybe the best thing would be if BF/PP destroyed the exchange, then we would all have to move to daq? I may have to anyway, time will tell.

Apart from the pricing structure, diverting all new customers to a poor value recreational sportsbook, the exchange website, website reliability and customer service, I find betfair exchange is alright.

Two more things. The lack of liquidity in anything except a main market and the over use of betfair bots so it's not peer to peer.

I'm on 42% and carry on because most of my profit is now elsewhere.  That's partly because it just gets harder anyway, partly because they don't give PC rebates, so not just because of the 42% charge.  Exactly what the split is now I've no idea, but the majority used to be on here.  I'm giving it 1-4 more years.  Once my youngest son gets to University (in 4 years) that's definitely it.  I'd quit now if I didn't have kids.

You are not a current PC payer with a 22% lifetime commission but now being pumped with 40% commission!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I assume this is because your net profits are above £250k?

Correct Westender. I paid the 20% pc once ages ago for £603.96, it seems... 

Lifetime summary Applies across 201,052 Exchange markets
Gross profit & loss £342,097.27
Commission £77,359.12
Other charges £5.42
Premium charges £603.96
Total charges £77,968.49 (22.79%)



My prices are pretty tight enabling me to get matched in around 1000 markets per week. I never trade my positions so am subject to freak long losing runs, I actually made no money from June to June (approx 50,000 markets), but things have picked up again during the last few months pushing me over the 250k threshold.

If I had hit the threshold a year earlier (just before the static year) I guess I would be out of business now.

From what I can see, if the 40% was calculated at the end of each month it would be much easier to survive, but weekly is  going to be a killer. Imagine if the 20% pc was calculated daily, or even calculated on each result! The weekly charge period is giving punters just enough slack to survive, but little incentive to.

Clydebank, what are you going to do for a living if you quit gambling, or do you just mean quit BF?

When I met someone from Betfair years ago, I did tell them the weekly period was far too short from their punters pov.  I think they are generally ignorant about their charge from a betting angle which was borne out by their rugby promo fiasco.  Far simpler things perplex supposed professionals so it is no surprise. 

I wouldn't quit Betfair if I wasn't quitting gambling.  That would make no sense.  I don't know what the future will hold, but although I'm not loaded, I'm not desperate for money having made a fair whack from the gambling.  My health and mental well being will definitely improve if I quit so it's a no brainer.  Thanks to the chronic lack of housing in this country, and more relaxed planning laws, there is probably now development potential in the land adjacent to my parents' home, which they own, and that would be my first priority from a working pov.  I'd be long odds on that no one else in my family will do anything about it.

My prices are pretty tight enabling me to get matched in around 1000 markets per week. I never trade my positions so am subject to freak long losing runs, I actually made no money from June to June (approx 50,000 markets),

I might be wrong, but aren't those long losing runs going to absolutely punish you as soon as you pay 40% premium charge, so you won't get any allowance for losing weeks, but will still be hit during winning weeks.

I'm on 40% and only play in a handful of markets each year.

I lost £6K in July and have won nothing since.

I won't have to pay any P/C until I've won at least that £6K back,
maybe quite a bit more depending on how much commission is generated.

1000 markets per week is a huge amount to price up without any bot.

You don't remember paying the charge,that's because you probably didn't pay it.

At the end of the month that number will increase by tens of thousands but you
will not pay any of it.

If everything stays the same you'll end up paying an extra 18% of your gross profit.

I might be wrong, but aren't those long losing runs going to absolutely punish you as soon as you pay 40% premium charge, so you won't get any allowance for losing weeks, but will still be hit during winning weeks.

That's pretty much as I see it, time will tell, but if the winning weeks no longer pay for the losing weeks and leave a decent profit, the writing will be on the wall.

JML, are you saying that if I lose say 2k in week 1 (following 30th Nov) then make 2k in week 2, I will not pay any pc on the 2k?

The way I see it, if I lose 2k, win 2k (after 10% basic comm), lose 2k, win 2k, I'll be paying an extra 30% of the wins in pc, so 1.2k in pc, roughly speaking as a VERY basic example. So instead of having a level month I'd be 1.2k down.

You are always entitled to your old top, without paying PC after a loss. I know, have about 100k to get back. That's the danger, you are gambling for fractions but your downside is always1 for 1 dollars.

Trev

If you lost 2k the first week then you would have a “buffer” for the next week which would effectively let you win that 2k back before starting to pay PC. In fact you would be able to win more than 2k the second week depending on how much you have turned over.

In your example of lose 2k, win 2k, lose 2k, win 2k you would pay no PC.

During the 5th week, you would be able to win up to a certain amount extra before paying PC on those winnings – that figure would depend on how much you have turned over and therefore how much commission you have generated.

In my opinion the exchange now is to a certain degree just like a bookies,betfair over the years have observed people make fortunes and have decided they might as well make this money instead so they marginalise winners with the PC and start using the betfair bots to seed the markets,it is no longer peer to peer,why do you think this inferior exchange site is forced onto customers who much preferred the old site,why do you think there is a 12 second countdown on the football markets when for numerous years it was only 5 seconds.
I spoke to customer services last week asking why immediately following a goal being scored i had to wait 12 seconds to place a bet yet there is always money instantaneously in the markets when the market is unsuspended,first of all i was told it was because of bots and api's,so when i enquired further i was told every customer has to go through the countdown marker and they were faster than myself to which i disagreed,it is patently obvious that they betfair are balancing there books thus making huge profits and seeding popular markets,removing winners via the PC and gaining a huge advantage by being first to market and snapping up any mistakes or large inacurate prices posted.

immediately following a goal being scored i had to wait 12 seconds to place a bet yet there is always money instantaneously in the markets when the market is unsuspended

What you see is bets placed using the "keep" option

IMO Betfair's only involvement is when there is a 100% guaranteed profit,
nothing that requires an opinion.

JML
Thanks that explains it

Thanks for replies to me, so Gin, after a few winning weeks in a row my example would kick in, unless  I hit a losing streak and give all the winnings back in comm (back to 40% overall comm paid). I'm guessing my example will be the reality for me, probably having about 1 losing week in 4, so the 40% assumed total charges figure will slowly drop each month.

Edit, just realised, will the 40% figure be held level each week because of pc paid?

You are wrong JML as many of these bets are layers of impossible scores at 1000/1.

Betfair or others are exempt from the 12 second delay.

I agree with JML about BF's seeding. I don't think they're at it.

Trevh - your losses, to all intents and purposes, are discounted by 40% because you only pay PC
on a figure that is calculated cumulatively. Every week they work out your winnings, your commission,
your implied commission and your PC. If the charges are less than 40% then they'll round you up to
the 40% by charging you. The intricacies .... I'll leave to someone else.

I think it is :

40% PC

profit £1000 at the end of the week

commission + implied commission divided 2 = generated commission .

lets say you have paid £200 on winning bets ( at 3% commission rate ) and £100 on losing bets ( implied commission , 3% of losing bets = implied )

£200 + £100 = £300 divided by 2 = £150 generated commission

betfair want 40% PC ( 40% of £1000 = £400 ) but you have generated £150 , so £400 minus the £150 you have generated = £250

your Premium Charge for that week will be £250


,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I think

Westender, layers at 1000 can 'keep bet' too, after the initial goal of course. I agree with JML and Pete.

Pete, I emailed you last night, will check my emails later.

Pablo, yes that's correct, but I already knew all that, thanks anyway, it's just how it will pan out from week to week that's unknown to me.

Joined: 04 Jan 06
| Topic/replies: 5,711 | Blogger: Westender's blog
You are wrong JML as many of these bets are layers of impossible scores at 1000/1.

Betfair or others are exempt from the 12 second delay.



The 1000/1 offers don't show until 12 seconds.
They may,at times,look like they have taken less.

Using fracsoft will enable you to see what happens and when.

And I doubt very much that it's Betfair's money.

I should have said NEW 1000/1 offers.

It's possible,for example,for the 1000/1 0-0 to
remain if the score changes from 1-0 to 2-0.

If BF were playing on the exchange, they would NEVER offer arbs.

And they do, so they don't. That's what I think, anyway.

I mean arbs versus their sportsbook prices, of course.

I watch what happens when a market reopens and these 1000/1 lays of 0-0 just after a goal is scored etc are on after 2-3 secs and at least 6-9 secs before other customers.

Betfair and/or others must have a much lower delay than the standard times provided to the mainstream on here.

Watch when there is a big game such as El Classico correct score market at the weekend and see it in action.

Nov 17, 2015 -- 4:14PM, Westender wrote:

I watch what happens when a market reopens and these 1000/1 lays of 0-0 just after a goal is scored etc are on after 2-3 secs and at least 6-9 secs before other customers.Betfair and/or others must have a much lower delay than the standard times provided to the mainstream on here.Watch when there is a big game such as El Classico correct score market at the weekend and see it in action.

The way I see it is the complete opposite. I'm often putting money straight in after a suspend, quite often as soon as the market re-opens. There is always a little bit - but only a little bit of money - hitting the market after the normal delay. It's taking absolutely ages for any real money to hit the market. Though it's far less obvious on more liquid markets.

For example, Uruguay just scored against Chile. As soon as the markets reopened I put some money into the o3.5 market. There was only one other block of money waiting. It took another 20 seconds for any other money to hit the market and another 10 seconds for any money to be matched.

Westender--Do you honestly think Betfair are stupid enough to beat the clock
by 9 seconds when 1 would be more than enough.

You seem to have ignored the following--

The 1000/1 offers don't show until 12 seconds.
They may,at times,look like they have taken less.

Using fracsoft will enable you to see what happens and when.


I doubt that there is more than £2K/week profit in laying
these impossible scores and Betfair probably get at least
a 40% cut by doing nothing.

It's ridiculous to suggest that they would cheat for
£1K/week.

Try yourself to get a lay of 1000/1 matched on a lay of 0-0 in El Classico following the first goal at the weekend and you will find you are in the queue well behind the money up at 2-3 sec following reopening of the market.

Not a bet I do but the clearest example of the abuse.

Ethics wnet right out of the window when Betfair introduced the cross matcher, various Betfair Bots, increased commission and introduced huge premium charges.

Betfair or others get their prices up after 2-3 secs folling the market reopening while the mainstream customer has to wait for a further 5-8 secs.

Happens all the time.

Trev

I’m not sure if you are still looking for any answers but as Pete says, BF will look at your historical figures and work out what percentage you have paid in charges compared to your winnings. If that figure is under 40% than they will charge you the difference.

If you hit a losing streak, your historical winnings will go down so the historical percentage of charges that you have paid (compared to winnings) will rise and in the future you will be allowed to win that money back without paying any PC.

Of course the danger (and unfairness of the PC) is that if you never recover from a losing streak then you will never get the 40% that you have originally paid in charges back.

The more you turn over to win the 2k, the less you will pay in PC but it becomes harder to retain the 2k win as you are also paying more in commission. So if for example you were a 3% Commission payer and your weekly figures looked like this:


Win Markets     £47,295

Losing Markets  -£43,876

Profit before commission £3,419

Commission (@3%) £1,419

Profit after commission £2,000


You would pay no PC on the above because the commission paid (1419) is over 40% of your total profit (3419) – however your initial profit is 3419 so this example is only any good to you if you can find a system that allows you to scale up AND cover the extra commission paid to win your 2k.


Not sure if all that makes sense!

Trev's commgen:gross profit is about 22%, so he's got some work to get it upto the 40% level (interestingly Trev did you do any churning to keep it just above the 20% level, or was that just the figure it happened to level out at?).

In terms of getting the %up, the one thing i can think of is to concentrate on the higher priced bets that you are making, assuming your bets are over a wider range of prices. For a higher average price that you bet at, the higher a ROI you can make before PC kicks in.

eg At 2% commission and higher rate PC charge, betting at a price of 1.5, the 40% level is reached when your ROI goes above 1.36%. Betting at an average price of 2.0 you can make upto 2.07%, and at a price of 3.0 upto 2.79%. These ROI's correspond exactly to the 40% level, so if you do have a good run, you may still occasionally fall into the PC net.

Thanks Gin and Andriy, yes it is just luck that I sit at 22%.

Westender--I'll repeat for the third time

The 1000/1 offers don't show until 12 seconds.
They may,at times,look like they have taken less.

To put it as simply as possible--the markets are actually
unsuspended a number of seconds before they show as being
open on the site.So API users are able to place bets sooner
than others.

The 1000/1 player will the first out the blocks and his bets will
show first.

Bot users that offer competitive prices must wait for the
Match Odds(and maybe also the O/U 2.5) to appear and therefore will be at least 15
seconds behind the 1000/1 player as noticed by Darlo Bantam---

The way I see it is the complete opposite. I'm often putting money straight in after a suspend, quite often as soon as the market re-opens. There is always a little bit - but only a little bit of money - hitting the market after the normal delay. It's taking absolutely ages for any real money to hit the market. Though it's far less obvious on more liquid markets.

Any idiot should realise that IF Betfair were to beat the clock,that they wouldn't do so by 9 seconds.

Zero morals at Betfair since the founders left.

This current mob in charge would charge you for a having a shyte in your own house.

Betfarce as we knew it is finished.

Today at 1pm UK time, there were 24 football matches in-play on the Sportsbook and ONLY 5 on the Exchange!!!!!!!

Paddy Power Mgt turning the noose tighter on the Exchange.

No point wasting time on here moaning about it as it is an organisation hijacked by Paddy Power and simply just another bookmaker.

RIP Betfair

I have manually traded on the football markets (match result) since i joined with the vast majority of the time i try and trade (lay then back) following a goal being scored and what i have noticed since we have all been forced onto this new site is that in the vast majority of popular matches that following a goal being scored and the market being re opened then the market pricing on the match result is too perfect in such a short space of time when compared to the old site and this is no coincidence and with the 12 second countdown by the time i get to market the market is already perfectly set,Betfair will use various means to increase profits whether that is their cross matching or betfair bots.

Yep, Betfair are becoming much, much more active in placing their own money in markets.  Their excuse will be they're doing it to improve liquidity but they know they'll be trampling over us and taking some juicy stuff for themselves.

not sure if that ALWAYS worked   sometimes it hard to get winners in the right way in a week!!!!  Try and lose on betfair  and   win elsewhere  just to   work  up to the before  pc  hits   and repeat

and if   it in the wrong way round    it   get so  much harder    to lose on betfair   and    get hit full pc

before  the week is up

lay betfair 6 to 1   on footy     back elsewhere  at 1.15 etc

  just to keep pc at bay

  but if wrong way round  it  a mess lol

As I have said before, there is nothing wrong with the premium charge in itself.  It's main issue is that it was effectively backdated.  There are probably a fair amount of players that were very profitable in the early days, but are now slight losers.  They are getting slaughtered by the charge and obviously will give up well before their losses bring them out of premium charge territory.

How are they getting slaughtered by the charge if they are now losers?

The easiest thing to understand about PC is that none is payable
unless your all time profit hits a new high.

And it's possible to hit an all time high and not pay any PC.

because they don't lose every week.

Does the "all time high" apply to someone who say had 20k profit and 1k charges when it was introduced?  Surely they will pay charges until they get charges up or profit down?  Hence my backdating point.

Take an extreme example.

If on day one of PC someone had won £1m but only
had generated £20K and therefore would be on 60%
in future.
Betfair would then have adjusted his account--

CG £20K Other charges £580K. Total charges £600K.

If he manages to get to 50% PC the other charges
would be reduced so that the total charges will
be 50% of gross profit at that time.

Correction-Other charges is something different.

His PC paid would start at £580K.

ok so there wasn't any backdating?

@jml - not if he won it on a single market, I think.

No backdating in the sense that you are talking about.

If when the PC charges were introduced, they were 20k up and had only paid 1k commission then they would automatically go onto 60% and their other charges would be set to 11k (to bring total charges up to 60% of 20k).

They would then only pay PC on further winnings as they reached further all time highs.

If that was the case he wouldn't meet the number of markets criteria.

They don't count any single win if it's 50% or over of any total profit.

I don't know what happens when this win becomes less than 50%.

They'd probably just make another adjustment.

That was pretty fair I don't see what the moaning is about then (other than the premium charge not being used for exchange promotion as was indicated I think)

A lot of people were upset that when the PC was introduced, your rate was worked out on “backdated” figures that you had no control over.

If they had said that the PC was applicable to profits earned and commission generated from that point forward then it would have been much easier to mitigate the charges from a standing start as opposed to digging yourself out of the hole of previous profits/commission generated.

Even one of the architects of PC told me that he was against that aspect of it.

yeah maybe the higher levels but for 20% it seems fair enough.

The Betfair Taxes are the only taxes charged in the world based on virtual figures and take off 50% of genuine expenses (commission).

Betfair in 2001 - one line of charges stating 5% commission on winning bets

Betfair in 2011 - a telephone book of charge and taxes



No wonder people spend their money elsewhere these days

Not many companies would get away with charges based on financial transactions more than 7 years old

Betfair Sports Trader is in the final analysis a Parasitical Pursuit that does no good for the world whatsoever.   That's why the constant moaning about Premium Charges on here can be tiresome, Premium Charge is not a grave injustice it just may be unfair .........as is life.

Nov 16, 2015 -- 5:21PM, JML wrote:

I'm on 40% and only play in a handful of markets each year.I lost £6K in July and have won nothing since.I won't have to pay any P/C until I've won at least that £6K back,maybe quite a bit more depending on how much commission is generated.1000 markets per week is a huge amount to price up without any bot.You don't remember paying the charge,that's because you probably didn't pay it.At the end of the month that number will increase by tens of thousands but youwill not pay any of it.If everything stays the same you'll end up paying an extra 18% of your gross profit.

JML Exposed

What an absolute  load of shyte

Really Einstein

What's happened in the last 10 weeks for you
to come to this conclusion?

A handful of markets per year

40% Premium Charges

Lost £6k in July

Won nothing back by Nov 16

WTF???

Let me explain very carefully so that
even you will understand.

I been on Betfair since 2000 and for the first few
years it was a licence to print money but it has become
increasingly difficult to make a profit.

I'm on 40% PC because I won over £250K in the early years.

WTF? Not that difficult to understand,perhaps that's why
no else questioed it.

And before you get even more clever and point out
that my joined date says 10 May 05,I can assure you
that there is also a simple explanation for that.

Cloak and daggers JML

The Premium Charge Avoidance Team will be after you now

My claims that Paddy Power have taken the cake and left crumbs now seems to have hit you as well then?

If I don't like the price my greengrocer charges for his apples I don't go into his shop.

If nobody likes the prices he charges then nobody goes into his shop.

He goes out business.

If he puts up his prices and people still shop there, he makes more money.

It's called the free market.

The Exchange is going out of business within 3 years based on current footfall