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mardock
06 Jan 14 19:49
Joined:
Date Joined: 10 Jan 08
| Topic/replies: 26 | Blogger: mardock's blog
After 3 years of full time betfair trading,
after over 1 billion € total in-play turnover made
after more than million € real profit/loss turnover made
after more than 360k € paid in commision and premium charges i decide to suspend my furter betfair activity.

I resisted for a long time and wanted to stay hier few years longer but betfair crew were persistent in a way they forced me to stop.

- firstly 50% premium charge
- then exclusion of support in my leanguage
- then incompetent account manager
- then higher commision level for my country
- and finally something what is called "VIP support" - Guys I really appreciate every effort you made for me to stop using betfair. Not answering my emails, answering about the questions I didn't ask, contacting with other departure and made me average 3 - 5 days waiting for reply with almost every question I had and finally not contacting me to inform that you wouldn't execute my market order what caused big loss in my account, so Bradley, Jonathan well done guys you finally did it.
Pause Switch to Standard View Tired enough of betfair self-destruction
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Report thecookiemonster January 6, 2014 7:52 PM GMT
Good luck with your new endeavours ? any small tips on how to make a small few quid on here ? Did you play many sports ?
Report mardock January 6, 2014 8:11 PM GMT
any small tips on how to make a small few quid on here ?

Betfair was, is and will be exchange. It's not a bookmaker, casino etc, try estimate how courses will change (not who is going to win the match [race]). Use only sports where something unexpected can happen, avoid regulated markets, use only ladder interface in trading softwares to back or lay, if you are going to be successful hier you need to give up all other jobs and spend 4 - 10 hours/day to analyze markets, protect your budget - never risk more than 10 - 20% in single back or lay - even if you are going to counter very quickly, betfair downs are to often and you can loose this money easily.
Report thecookiemonster January 6, 2014 8:15 PM GMT
ok thanks, will you move to Ladbrokes exchange ? ( **** ?)
Report mardock January 6, 2014 9:08 PM GMT
will you move to Lad?

Unfortunatelly they banned too many countries (including my), so they need to change it too, but I would like try it.
Report siwaadupa January 6, 2014 11:08 PM GMT
The day they became public company, they became money squeezing company. In my opninon until they reach 1500 points on London Stock Exchange - there will be no significant changes here.
Beautiful post describing how betfair politics(roBots,charges, sportsbook being main page) strategy can destroy winners here.
Best Wishes @mardock
P.S Which country you coming from?
Report siwaadupa January 6, 2014 11:12 PM GMT
360k € paid in commision- and This guy has not received respect from betfair staff- Amazing!
Report Darlo Bantam January 7, 2014 12:02 AM GMT
Where did he even mention bots or the sportsbook?
Report Trevh January 7, 2014 2:39 AM GMT
average 3 - 5 days waiting for reply with almost every question I had and finally not contacting me to inform that you wouldn't execute my market order what caused big loss in my account, so Bradley, Jonathan well done guys you finally did it.

Can only speak as I find, but I've always found VIP support VERY swift, maybe it's a server/host sort of problem if you're outside the UK?

Can't understand why they would need to contact you to execute your market order? Can you explain that further please? How much was the big loss?
Report 1.01 Layer January 7, 2014 10:06 AM GMT
Well done Betfair. So, do you or don't you?  Apparently, you don't and nor should we.
Report Get On MASSIVE January 7, 2014 11:08 AM GMT
Are you the Ukrainian tennis trader Mardock?
Report mardock January 7, 2014 12:01 PM GMT
360k € paid in commision- and This guy ...

not only commision, it's amount paid in commision + premium charges

Are you the Ukrainian tennis trader Mardock?

no

Can't understand why they would need to contact you to execute your market order? Can you explain that further please? How much was the big loss?

I had my bet opened in one market when betfair went down and I could do nothing to hedge that bet. In the moment it went down I could hedge it with profit ca 100€. Additionally I had to leave and I couldn't track further that market so I sent mail to vip support asking them to close my position after markets reopening. They answered: It seems although there is currently an issue with bet placement. Our technical team are currently looking into this and it should be resolved shortly They didn't tell me that they are going to ignore my order of closing market position, but they did it and my bet remained opened till the end of match and loss was ca. 1300€
Report JML January 7, 2014 7:44 PM GMT
Over a  billion in 3 years is more than 900,000 every single day.
Report YOMOMMA January 7, 2014 8:18 PM GMT
lol
Report McNulty (2) January 7, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
€900,000 in bets matched every day is entirely possible, given a big enough bank.
Report mardock January 7, 2014 8:58 PM GMT
Over a  billion in 3 years is more than 900,000 every single day.

Unfortunatelly this is the only kind of data not avaliable for me now and this amount is estimated by me. However I can surely tell that this amount belongs to interval (500 millions, 1.5 billion).

Eg. very liquid but short 3 set Wimbledon final in 2013 and more than 2.1 million € inplay turnover in single market.
Report mardock January 7, 2014 9:00 PM GMT
However I mentioned earlier - it's in play turnover not real profit/loss after match turnover.
Report Darlo Bantam January 7, 2014 9:41 PM GMT
If you're talking of turnover as simple money matched, I can have 10s of thousands of pounds matched on tennis or cricket every now and again and I'm barely a big trader at all.
Report mardock January 7, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
If you're talking of turnover as simple money matched

Betfair report those numbers so why wouldn't I (especially if I made average 3 - 6% of it)?

http://media.investis.com/B/Betfair/PDFs/Annual-Reports/Betfair_Annual_Report_2012.pdf
page 9.

I already noticed in my first post that 1 billion was in-play turnover, and over 1 million was after match sum of profits and losses.

and I'm barely a big trader at all
just like me dude
Report mardock January 7, 2014 10:21 PM GMT
I just counted numbers from my data about real turnover (sum of profits and losses from all markets) and it was 3.4 million € so even more than I thought.
Report fixed January 8, 2014 4:40 AM GMT
still nobody really gives a..... site goes down sometimes. and then nobody can bet

to expect a betfair employee to sit there and hit the refresh button 120000 times until site is back and then enter YOUR bet is ridiculous 



and lets face it: you will stay here
Report mardock January 8, 2014 12:09 PM GMT
to expect a betfair employee to sit there and hit the refresh button 120000 times until site is back and then enter YOUR bet is ridiculous 

I didn't expect that. I just expected information that they could not do it. I haven't received that information so I left home and stoped track my bet. I could stay a while longer and close my bet on my own if I had any idea they were going to ignore my order.


and lets face it: you will stay here

I'm already not hier :)
My last bet was in the middle of October 2013 so keeping almost 3 months well without betfair. I earned enough to stay hier and watch betfair self-destruction.
I will only back if they fully scrap Premium charges. Earlier I thought that 20% is quite fair charge for traders, but now I think that paying even 10% is to much for this kind of cheeky thieves.
Report viva el presidente! January 8, 2014 1:53 PM GMT
you won't be back then because that's never going to happen.
Report bilbobaggins January 8, 2014 4:46 PM GMT
mardock - hope you'll reconsider - we need your sort of liquidity. I'm pretty sure the PC will change in time but surely with the amount you are betting you can still make a comfortable profit even at 50% even though it really hurts.
Report siwaadupa January 8, 2014 10:53 PM GMT

Jan 7, 2014 -- 10:40PM, fixed wrote:


still nobody really gives a..... site goes down sometimes. and then nobody can betto expect a betfair employee to sit there and hit the refresh button 120000 times until site is back and then enter YOUR bet is ridiculous  and lets face it: you will stay here


why he would be back here?

Report Trevh January 9, 2014 1:19 AM GMT
"I'm already not hier :)
My last bet was in the middle of October 2013 so keeping almost 3 months well without betfair. I earned enough to stay hier and watch betfair self-destruction.
I will only back if they fully scrap Premium charges. Earlier I thought that 20% is quite fair charge for traders, but now I think that paying even 10% is to much for this kind of cheeky thieves."

I think 20% is fine, more than that is a bit off putting.

In reality you experienced an unforeseen snag, but you only dropped 1300 euros Mardock, sounds like it was a shock to your system more than anything else? In the grand scheme of things **** happens, there's no point blaming BF and cutting your nose off to spite your face, just swallow your pride and get back to making some money. :)
Report fixed January 9, 2014 5:35 AM GMT
so what are the odds on mardock's net profit ?

negative                               5
breakeven (as most are of course)      5
0-10.000                               2,5
over 10.000                            5
Report jt45 January 9, 2014 9:46 AM GMT
If I considered it likely that mardock's BF lifetime net profit, as it stood at the time of his original post on this thread, could be independently verified to the satisfaction of both parties and wagers would be paid upon that verification, I would be delighted to take your offer of 5 on over 10,000.

That would be subject to confirmation of the currency. You didn't state whether your figures were GBP, Euros or another currency but mardock's original post and your use of the comma in one of the prices, as opposed to a full stop decimal point, implies Euros.

Given the initial hysterical reaction from many forum users to the recent optional Rugby Union PC exemption and the fact that several, who otherwise seem entirely plausible PC Payers, appear to be incapable of locating and reading the Betfair Charges information, I wouldn't presume that a less than excellent understanding or forum presentation of the PC, turnover and such like (particularly for those with English as a second language), means that the claims made by such forum users are bogus.

A review of mardock's contributions to this thread and elsewhere on the forum leads me to believe there is considerably more than a 20% probability that he has made a BF lifetime net profit of more than 10,000 Euros. I've no way of knowing but that's my assessment based on the very limited information available. I've allowed for the possibility, and considered it to be very unlikely, that he was acting in collusion with you prior to contributing to this thread.
Report mardock January 9, 2014 11:09 AM GMT
so what are the odds on mardock's net profit ?

negative                               5
breakeven (as most are of course)      5
0-10.000                               2,5
over 10.000                            5


It's hard to pay 50% premium charges below 10.000 net profit :P
Report siwaadupa January 9, 2014 2:00 PM GMT

Jan 9, 2014 -- 5:09AM, mardock wrote:


so what are the odds on mardock's net profit ?negative                               5breakeven (as most are of course)      50-10.000                               2,5over 10.000                            5 It's hard to pay 50% premium charges below 10.000 net profit :P


I believe that u r on profit here, and I believe that you may be tired of what you seeing here(whats happenig on betfair generaly). But what are going to do now? Resting? I dont believe that people on this caliber like you can have a long rest. You must doing something? dont you?

Report fixed January 10, 2014 3:55 AM GMT
mardock not easily offended, give him that....a great plus ;- )


but still not convinced of the bank-breaking gambling ability of this particular customer at all, sense something odwyer-ish in all these posts.......almost no one would walk away if he were sure of his own ability to generate tens of thousands in profit just because of this really minor 1000 EUR hiccup here and an email not answered there...
Report fixed January 10, 2014 4:05 AM GMT
therefore (forgot to update net profit-odds earlier, apologies)

negative        1,4
not negative    3,5
Report mardock January 10, 2014 10:58 AM GMT
almost no one would walk away if he were sure of his own ability to generate tens of thousands in profit just because of this really minor 1000 EUR hiccup here and an email not answered there...

I listed 5 reasons of my decision. I'm so sorry that you noticed only one :(
Report longbridge January 13, 2014 5:16 PM GMT
None of the 5 things you listed appear to stop you making money.

I can understand if you were a purely recreational gambler and received what you perceived as poor service that'd take the fun out of it and you'd walk away.

But if you're making money - and I'll assume you're making a fair bit if you're paying 50% PC - then can't see why you'd sacrifice that money, which you can't make elsewehere, just because people are slow replying to your emails and (if you see it that way) lost you you EUR 1300 once when the Exchange went down.
Report Do wah Diddy January 13, 2014 5:39 PM GMT
ITS HARD WHEN THINGS DONT GO ALL YOUR OWN WAY ,I USED TO JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SWEAR
Report mardock January 14, 2014 3:47 PM GMT
then can't see why you'd sacrifice that money, which you can't make elsewehere

My hate for betfair was growing after every point I listed and finally betfair last move added insult to injury. Hate is very strong source of motivation. I know that I lose money because of not trading any more, but knowing that betfair lose money too is very sweet feeling and this is the only thing I can do against betfair.
Report mesmerised January 14, 2014 5:25 PM GMT
You could always reincarnate yourself and start again, if you're bright enough to have made over a million quid profit it's not hard to work out what I mean.
Report fixed January 15, 2014 7:10 AM GMT
and no matter how clumsy some of the betfair maneuvers and how unlucky mardock's recent losses (that turned his accounts all time P/L net-negative) have been: his avatar is way over the line


still just gambling, not a war zone
Report Swedebank January 15, 2014 9:29 AM GMT
"but knowing that betfair lose money too is very sweet feeling and this is the only thing I can do against betfair."

Sounds a bit childish this way of reasoning. i Pay PC big time as well, but just adapt to the rules or close down.
Report ann witt January 15, 2014 9:42 AM GMT
You could always reincarnate yourself and start again, if you're bright enough to have made over a million quid profit it's not hard to work out what I mean.

A relevant post made by mesmerised. I've yet to pay pc but one of the things that sticks in my craw is the thought of paying it while others are dodging (similar to taxes in this country).
Report siwaadupa January 15, 2014 6:02 PM GMT
Ive just noticed that Corcoran in on his avatar.
    Cant understand why so many critise Mardock for retirement? He doesnt like what is happening at betfair and he clearly says what he doesnt like. Betfair does nothing to bring those kind of people back(or keep them here) and betfair lose money- simple.
    Many of loosers though cant understand why he does it?
    Because he is too clever, smart to spend life and work for bankers sitting at Hammersmith headquarters- winners are not idiots. If you winner at betfair you can be winner somewhere else. Thats what I do :)
Report Coachbuster January 16, 2014 12:10 AM GMT
i wouldn't have thought it possible for anyone to dodge paying

a new account that starts winning will soon pop up on their radar - cross referencing will be childs play
Report fixed January 16, 2014 6:50 AM GMT
but he is not going to win

however a few more nuggets ("Use only sports where something unexpected can happen", " use only ladder interface" or (the worst) "spend 4 - 10 hours/day to analyze markets") might be in play ?!


negative 1,1
not negative 8
Report page-413 January 16, 2014 9:58 AM GMT
Get ya coat close the door on the way out thanks for the good times
Report ann witt January 16, 2014 4:21 PM GMT
In all likeliehood Mardock's M.O. is no different to many others M.O. As bot suggested, they will just take up the slack and betfair will lose nothing. It strikes me it's the ones whose MO involves a lot of work who are most likely to jack it as a result of pc.
Report marky sparky January 21, 2014 12:18 PM GMT
"You could always reincarnate yourself and start again, if you're bright enough to have made over a million quid profit it's not hard to work out what I mean."

Sounds easy doesn't it....until you try putting that much money through another account. Would stick out like a sore thumb
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