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1. In your experience, how much can you win roughly with one of the big 4 online bookies before they close down your account or restrict you? any mention of other online bookies good too.
2. In your experience, how much roughly do the high street bookies pay out as a maximum at one go, for example i cant imagine if you won over 5k they would hand over 5k there and then - do they write you a cheque? or do you have to make more than one trip, or visit 2 bookies ?
3. In your experience, is it true, that if you were banned by a high street bookie for winning too much, do they circulate CCTV picture of your to their other shops in the region, or have is that myth?
3.
2. In your experience, how much roughly do the high street bookies pay out as a maximum at one go, for example i cant imagine if you won over 5k they would hand over 5k there and then - do they write you a cheque? or do you have to make more than one trip, or visit 2 bookies ?
3. In your experience, is it true, that if you were banned by a high street bookie for winning too much, do they circulate CCTV picture of your to their other shops in the region, or have is that myth?
3.
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1. Amounts don't really matter .You don't need to win anything at all actually, just betting in a non mug way will be flagged up (eg always getting on at good prices, spotting arbs etc ) My Victor Chandler account was £52 in profit when it was closed .My Skybet account was over 2k up but never closed ,in fact they still send me free bets when i go a while without using it. Never been restricted by them either (most tried to get on with them about £300 , always approved)They must figure i got lucky with mug bets and will give it all back.
2. Long time since i bet in shops . When i did have decent amounts to collect it often was 'can you come back tomorrow?' That would have been for over 2k . Anything around £1,000 usually ok .Does depend on the shop and the area though .The ones where the clientele are mostly people on the dole are going to have less money in the till .They will also expect a tip if you have a grand o more to collect although they won't say anything.
3. I think thats illegal but they may well do it anyway.
2. Long time since i bet in shops . When i did have decent amounts to collect it often was 'can you come back tomorrow?' That would have been for over 2k . Anything around £1,000 usually ok .Does depend on the shop and the area though .The ones where the clientele are mostly people on the dole are going to have less money in the till .They will also expect a tip if you have a grand o more to collect although they won't say anything.
3. I think thats illegal but they may well do it anyway.
The ones where the clientele are mostly people on the dole are going to have less money in the till .They will also expect a tip if you have a grand o more to collect although they won't say anything.
thanks tober, v interesting this part on two fronts, 1. I wouldn;t have thought about bookies having less to hand in poorer areas which of course makes sense but 2. expecting a tip? their shirley having a laugh.
I'm amazed they closed your VC account with 52 pounds in profit, you can't get more illogical than that. I had it it my head big online bookies will close accounts once they reach a certain profit level such as 50k or there abouts, somebodies finger must have slipped on the delete button at vc.
thanks tober, v interesting this part on two fronts, 1. I wouldn;t have thought about bookies having less to hand in poorer areas which of course makes sense but 2. expecting a tip? their shirley having a laugh.
I'm amazed they closed your VC account with 52 pounds in profit, you can't get more illogical than that. I had it it my head big online bookies will close accounts once they reach a certain profit level such as 50k or there abouts, somebodies finger must have slipped on the delete button at vc.
Certain shops will do much less business so location is important .Also worth considering location when it comes to the factor of being robbed on the way home! .Some bookies you walk in and it is like the Cantina scene in Star Wars.
Oh i think they do expect tips . Given quite a few in different shops and never seen a look of surprise , and certainly NEVER once heard 'oh we don't accept tips!'
The VC thing was a huge cull about 2 years ago , there was a thread on here about it, loads of people banned by them , i'm sure some said they had lost money with them.
No , bookies do not close accounts because the punter has won a lot , especially if it is in a short time .There was a story a while back of a guy who won about 10k with Hills and then he had all of that on something else which won, then he had all the winnings on something else , that won too etc .People here were saying 'oh this is rubbish they'd have closed his account!' But you could see they were just typical full bank,mug bets which happened to have won .He was putting every bet on with WH even when there were better odds elsewhere and they clearly knew he was going to give them it all back and more importantly , give them a lot more afterwards. Think his last bet was on Djokovic to beat Federer at about 4/11 in the FO .
Oh i think they do expect tips . Given quite a few in different shops and never seen a look of surprise , and certainly NEVER once heard 'oh we don't accept tips!'
The VC thing was a huge cull about 2 years ago , there was a thread on here about it, loads of people banned by them , i'm sure some said they had lost money with them.
No , bookies do not close accounts because the punter has won a lot , especially if it is in a short time .There was a story a while back of a guy who won about 10k with Hills and then he had all of that on something else which won, then he had all the winnings on something else , that won too etc .People here were saying 'oh this is rubbish they'd have closed his account!' But you could see they were just typical full bank,mug bets which happened to have won .He was putting every bet on with WH even when there were better odds elsewhere and they clearly knew he was going to give them it all back and more importantly , give them a lot more afterwards. Think his last bet was on Djokovic to beat Federer at about 4/11 in the FO .
Fot the CCTV it may be ok for them to do that for Pencilman type conmen and other fraudsters , but not for people who just win money from them.
Well, I would never give a tip to a bookmaker, honestly it has to be one of the more absurd things I've heard, considering the vast majority of punters money they keep, why would one of the very few winning punters hand back money, you are very generous I have to say or maybe I;m tight
, but then again, I'm not in the winning habit
I suppose closing down accounts of big time winners would be a bad advert/image for their online business
, but then again, I'm not in the winning habit I suppose closing down accounts of big time winners would be a bad advert/image for their online business
I've used about 80 different accounts over the years. Only four have been closed while making a loss.
Used to work for a big 4 firm a few years back.
Ayers, Tobermory is probably talking about the staff at these shops, not necessarily the bookmaker itself. I was given a tip from time to time by any regular punter who had a big win but I never expected one.
As for the CCTV, in my experience that only occurred for fraudsters, slow count operators etc, however, winning customers would have copies of their bets sometimes sent to other shops in attempt to identify "live money/customers" and act accordingly.
This was in the days before EPOS though so its probably done electronically now.
Tobermory is right by the way, even more important then whether a customer is winning or losing, is how they actually got there to begin with. It doesn't take long to recognise "live" money when you're either taking bets all day or trading it at a racing room/HQ etc.
Ayers, Tobermory is probably talking about the staff at these shops, not necessarily the bookmaker itself. I was given a tip from time to time by any regular punter who had a big win but I never expected one.
As for the CCTV, in my experience that only occurred for fraudsters, slow count operators etc, however, winning customers would have copies of their bets sometimes sent to other shops in attempt to identify "live money/customers" and act accordingly.
This was in the days before EPOS though so its probably done electronically now.
Tobermory is right by the way, even more important then whether a customer is winning or losing, is how they actually got there to begin with. It doesn't take long to recognise "live" money when you're either taking bets all day or trading it at a racing room/HQ etc.
The tip situation makes me laugh. I also find it utterly ridiculous.
Given the efforts one has to go to try and get bets on in the first place absolutely no chance I am tipping shop staff. That is especially the case when 95% of them are utterly incompetent. The good ones are good but are few and far between.
I almost felt guilty recently when an Asian guy had had his 4th bet in as many minutes on virtual horses/dogs. He won £250 on the last one and tipped the staff £20. Fair play but not for me.
With regards to the original question;
1. It really varies on the bookie. Ladbrokes and Corals can be decent on new accounts early on but will soon restrict if you are betting big enough. Paddys have great limits first up but they last about 1 bet irrespective of win/lose. Hills are truly pathetic from the start. Bet365 deserve a mention as they are really good if it is an old account. Skybet should not be called a bookmaker.
2. As mentioned most shops do not have more than £1k readily to hand. Some will be able to get maybe £2.5k after they have opened the safe and emptied the machines. Normally takes 15/20 mins. Big wins go one of two ways. Either come back a different day or have it put onto a debit card.
3. I am certain they use cctv pictures. They also create profiles of the bigger punters. I was shocked to see a list of all the bets I had placed in one shop. I was soon restricted despite being a big loser in that shop. The big firms do not want to take bets just take mug money from the machines. I wish there was a minimum bet that shops had to take to keep their FOBT licences. i.e. something along the lines of whatever the max bet that can be placed in a FOBT. They are all getting the machines based on their bookmaking licences...
Given the efforts one has to go to try and get bets on in the first place absolutely no chance I am tipping shop staff. That is especially the case when 95% of them are utterly incompetent. The good ones are good but are few and far between.
I almost felt guilty recently when an Asian guy had had his 4th bet in as many minutes on virtual horses/dogs. He won £250 on the last one and tipped the staff £20. Fair play but not for me.
With regards to the original question;
1. It really varies on the bookie. Ladbrokes and Corals can be decent on new accounts early on but will soon restrict if you are betting big enough. Paddys have great limits first up but they last about 1 bet irrespective of win/lose. Hills are truly pathetic from the start. Bet365 deserve a mention as they are really good if it is an old account. Skybet should not be called a bookmaker.
2. As mentioned most shops do not have more than £1k readily to hand. Some will be able to get maybe £2.5k after they have opened the safe and emptied the machines. Normally takes 15/20 mins. Big wins go one of two ways. Either come back a different day or have it put onto a debit card.
3. I am certain they use cctv pictures. They also create profiles of the bigger punters. I was shocked to see a list of all the bets I had placed in one shop. I was soon restricted despite being a big loser in that shop. The big firms do not want to take bets just take mug money from the machines. I wish there was a minimum bet that shops had to take to keep their FOBT licences. i.e. something along the lines of whatever the max bet that can be placed in a FOBT. They are all getting the machines based on their bookmaking licences...
Tom,
Just out of curiosity, regarding shop staff, in your view what makes a "good one?" Is it those that are good at their job or those who let you get your money on? :)
Just out of curiosity, regarding shop staff, in your view what makes a "good one?" Is it those that are good at their job or those who let you get your money on? :)
It has nothing to do with getting money on. It is all about them actually doing their job in a proficient manner.
I still think my favourite was a bet being phoned through that was £100 @ 10/11...
I still think my favourite was a bet being phoned through that was £100 @ 10/11...
hi jpg, i knew he meant the shop staff, but still would not tip anyone in a bookie, i would rather walk outside and tip the roadsweeper who i would guess is on a lowere hourly rate out in the cold rather than the staff inside in the warm tbh, intersting about having bets copied and sent to other shops though,
tom with laddies and corals, what point do they begin to restrict accounts, how big do you have to bet as opposed to how much your winning, it makes you think that these stories you hear every now and again in the paper about one 'mysterious' punter whose on an amazing run and due to collect half a million form his next bet - is just a publicity stunt infact it no doubt is.
tom with laddies and corals, what point do they begin to restrict accounts, how big do you have to bet as opposed to how much your winning, it makes you think that these stories you hear every now and again in the paper about one 'mysterious' punter whose on an amazing run and due to collect half a million form his next bet - is just a publicity stunt infact it no doubt is.
It obviously depends on the sport but you could get £3/4k on football although it depends how close to kick off. It all depends on liabilities. The problem is if you place a bet for more than say £200 on any sport you flag up as potentially a big punter and they will watch your account very closely. At paddys you get like one chance to place a decent sized bet and then they close it whatever. Lads/Corals last a bit longer. Lads maybe a week and Corals something similar. Others such as Stan James/VC can be ok in the short term but they close your accounts with no warning after just a few winning bets.
What was interesting about seeing the profile they had on me, when I say they listed the bets, they had copies of the betting slips I had submitted. I have no doubts certain hand writing stands out irrespective of shop.
What was interesting about seeing the profile they had on me, when I say they listed the bets, they had copies of the betting slips I had submitted. I have no doubts certain hand writing stands out irrespective of shop.
My understanding was always that the Big 3 staff were on quite low wages . At least it was the case 2003-2007 ish . So i didn't consider it 'tipping the bookie' as such. The last tip i gave was because i'd been trying to have £300 @10/3 on United to win the league early in the 2006/07 season and they were about to kick off but the cashier had to phone for approval (this is seemingly required of anything that might return more than a few hundred) .She couldn't get through to whoever had to ok it but put the bet on anyway . So i gave her £20 when i collected £1300 .Most betting shop staff/managers seemed like decent people to me back then , though you would get some with zero customer service skills.
these stories you hear every now and again in the paper about one 'mysterious' punter whose on an amazing run and due to collect half a million form his next bet - is just a publicity stunt infact it no doubt is
I think these are true myself .There are loads of people doing fanciful accas or having large amounts on 'certs' and rolling the winnings over .The sheer numbers mean that some of them are going to get lucky from time to time and win big.The bookies love people who bet like that and so are happy to publicize them . Such as this one that i referred to above, people may remember him 'dead cert man'
http://junk09.edublogs.org/2011/06/05/punters-winning-streak-ends-with-djokovic/
The National Lottery is poor value but it don't mean the stories of the winners are made up.
these stories you hear every now and again in the paper about one 'mysterious' punter whose on an amazing run and due to collect half a million form his next bet - is just a publicity stunt infact it no doubt is
I think these are true myself .There are loads of people doing fanciful accas or having large amounts on 'certs' and rolling the winnings over .The sheer numbers mean that some of them are going to get lucky from time to time and win big.The bookies love people who bet like that and so are happy to publicize them . Such as this one that i referred to above, people may remember him 'dead cert man'
http://junk09.edublogs.org/2011/06/05/punters-winning-streak-ends-with-djokovic/
The National Lottery is poor value but it don't mean the stories of the winners are made up.
Tom,
The staff member who was phoning up for £100 at 10/11 was likely to be doing their job perfectly. You're right that liability is a big part but its not the only criteria that will trigger bet acceptance. Don't get me wrong, in a lot of cases its pathetic business practice but that's on the firm, not on the individual staff. If their customer service skills are terrible, then that's definitely on them... wouldn't have lasted long in my shops!
The copies of your bets would be there due to simple monitoring. As long as you were recognised by your appearance or your handwriting, it would be very easy and very common practice from my experience. Even easier now with electronic capture.
Ayers,
Don't assume things like that, especially when you consider many retail staff (not just those in betting shops) are on part time hours who would like more. For the record, I would never think less of any customer who won and didn't tip.
The staff member who was phoning up for £100 at 10/11 was likely to be doing their job perfectly. You're right that liability is a big part but its not the only criteria that will trigger bet acceptance. Don't get me wrong, in a lot of cases its pathetic business practice but that's on the firm, not on the individual staff. If their customer service skills are terrible, then that's definitely on them... wouldn't have lasted long in my shops!
The copies of your bets would be there due to simple monitoring. As long as you were recognised by your appearance or your handwriting, it would be very easy and very common practice from my experience. Even easier now with electronic capture.
Ayers,
Don't assume things like that, especially when you consider many retail staff (not just those in betting shops) are on part time hours who would like more. For the record, I would never think less of any customer who won and didn't tip.
"The big 3" will take decent limits, more so Pinny as they like a certain number of "sharp" accounts.
SJ, sky bet, coral, lads, VC etc or just PR fronts, not bookies anymore. Ignore them..
SJ, sky bet, coral, lads, VC etc or just PR fronts, not bookies anymore. Ignore them..
Ayers,
Don't assume things like that, especially when you consider many retail staff (not just those in betting shops) are on part time hours who would like more. For the record, I would never think less of any customer who won and didn't tip.
it's because i assume like in some restaurants, that tips are shared equally between them and the company/business
Don't assume things like that, especially when you consider many retail staff (not just those in betting shops) are on part time hours who would like more. For the record, I would never think less of any customer who won and didn't tip.
it's because i assume like in some restaurants, that tips are shared equally between them and the company/business
Ayers you make a lot of assumptions and almost all of them are wrong. I'd take good odds from your posts that you are 21 or under.
I'm over 21 but that has nothing to do with anything.
Assuming this that or the other is harmless.
Assuming this that or the other is harmless.
AyersRock 25 Jul 13 19:38 Joined: 27 Oct 11 | Topic/replies: 3,839 | Blogger: AyersRock's blog
Well, I would never give a tip to a bookmaker
this numpty and that other starving tw4t tom dont have a clue,tipping and tipping well is in YOUR best interest,shop staff can be your best friend or worst enemy,you pair of starving fkers deserve to get rolled by them when their chance arises,and it will
Well, I would never give a tip to a bookmaker
this numpty and that other starving tw4t tom dont have a clue,tipping and tipping well is in YOUR best interest,shop staff can be your best friend or worst enemy,you pair of starving fkers deserve to get rolled by them when their chance arises,and it will
lol what is with the hostility, I never even go in to bookies I bet online, I was wondering about limits that is all, calm down.
PS,
Instead of being abusive why not just say 'In my experience I find it much easier to get bets on if I tip the staff'. We all have different opinions and viewpoints.
Instead of being abusive why not just say 'In my experience I find it much easier to get bets on if I tip the staff'. We all have different opinions and viewpoints.
I think the hostility from my end came from your apparent hostility to min wage shop staff,who receive little to no training...Tom put what i wanted to say very eloquently ,thanks for that and accept my apologies please.
Lanza,i never bet any winners with you!
Lanza,i never bet any winners with you!
as far back as i remember, every bet you've had has almost felt like iv made a rick.
remember that 5 for 1(tho that wasnt me)
to wideboy (even acer fancied betting that price)
to the bitch beaming babe in the final...
to snowy last month.
you'r like my rick highlighter. lol
remember that 5 for 1(tho that wasnt me)
to wideboy (even acer fancied betting that price)
to the bitch beaming babe in the final...
to snowy last month.
you'r like my rick highlighter. lol
lol mate,we should go into business together,if only we had a proper track to do it at! 
it wasn't hostility towards the staff at all, it was the thought of tipping the bookie not the staff, as i say i thought all tips like in many companies are shared between staff and company, no need for aggression i know the staff themselves face that from losing punters like this muppet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3aDO8P-BAM
Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
"I want my money back!"
"I want my money back!"
"I want my money back!"
"I want my money back!"
"I want my money back!"
"I want my money back!"
I don't think it was the fact that some people on here wouldn't tip, rather the disdain you gave for the very idea, which to me I find a little irritating. My kids would say a similar thing and my immediate thought when I hear them say it is to grow up. I'd have said a similar thing at their age too. Roadsweepers will, I'm pretty sure, get a better wage than the majority of shop staff. Tips may get shared (with the company) in restaurants or they may not, it depends on the restaurant, that is a business where tips are standard and plentiful. I can assure you if you tipped the binmen or betting shop staff, there is not a cat in hell's chance that they'd share them with the company itself. And most absurd of all is the assumption that a bookie wouldn't close your account until you won £50k. If you managed to win £50k in total, from every single reputable bookie available before every single one of those bookies effectively close you down, you'd have done a very good job indeed.
There's nothing wrong with making harmless assumptions, just it can irritate people who know more about the subject when those assumptions are way out. I shouldn't get irritated I know, I just can't help it sometimes.
There's nothing wrong with making harmless assumptions, just it can irritate people who know more about the subject when those assumptions are way out. I shouldn't get irritated I know, I just can't help it sometimes.
Any more lessons in life forthcoming Clyde ?
Always good to read on a betting site.
Hope tomorrow turns out to be a better day for you.
Now don't go ballistic.
Just taking the michael.
" I just can't help it sometimes ".
Always good to read on a betting site.
Hope tomorrow turns out to be a better day for you.
Now don't go ballistic.
Just taking the michael.
" I just can't help it sometimes ".
I find it hard to believe that some people think "the firms" have a share of any tips the staff get. Its ridiculous beyond words. They may share it between all members of staff there on the day, but the management wouldnt have a clue. Many many years ago, a firm I worked for actually sent a message out that staff shoudlnt accept tips......this was treated with utter contempt. The job can be unpleasant and occasionally ones faith in human nature is restored when somebody wants to share a bit of their good luck.
Good post by Pounf. I was in the betting shop business for around 25 years and
and can assure anyone that punters tipping staff simply doesn't happen, except
when someone has a big win, say £500+ for small stakes, then perhaps a fiver
may be proffered.
and can assure anyone that punters tipping staff simply doesn't happen, except
when someone has a big win, say £500+ for small stakes, then perhaps a fiver
may be proffered.
CLYDEBANK29 28 Jul 13 23:53 Joined: 10 Jan 02 | Topic/replies: 3,678 | Blogger: CLYDEBANK29's blog
[i]rather the disdain you gave for the very idea, which to me I find a little irritating
You must of missed the part where I said it wasn;t about the thought of tipping an ordinary worker but having that tip(s) shared with the employer - the bookmaker.
And most absurd of all is the assumption that a bookie wouldn't close your account until you won £50k.
why is that absurd, you make the mistake of assuming that everyone is a gambling expert thats why i asked, because i dont know.
But now I do,
[i]rather the disdain you gave for the very idea, which to me I find a little irritating
You must of missed the part where I said it wasn;t about the thought of tipping an ordinary worker but having that tip(s) shared with the employer - the bookmaker.
And most absurd of all is the assumption that a bookie wouldn't close your account until you won £50k.
why is that absurd, you make the mistake of assuming that everyone is a gambling expert thats why i asked, because i dont know.
But now I do,
roadsweepers get paid more than the pittance we are on believe me!
Having worked online and now part time in a shop I can confirm that:
We will always be happy to accept a tip.
Some customers are monitored. This is when the stakes are £100 + which I think is laughable. I generally put most bets through unless you are looking at paying a grand or more on a monitored punter.
Sometime there isn't enough cash in the shop so we can put some on your debit card or ask you to come back tomorrow or recommend going to another shop. This is dependant on the win as we can pay out most money.
Winning accounts. When I worked online punters who were beating the price, arbing etc were restricted. Punters who had large wins but on generally favs etc we always felt that we can take him on and win in the long run.
In shop the only info that gets sent out is about fraudsters, slow counters and general buggers. I have't seen anything to say joe bloggs has won X so we cant serve him.
Having worked online and now part time in a shop I can confirm that:
We will always be happy to accept a tip.
Some customers are monitored. This is when the stakes are £100 + which I think is laughable. I generally put most bets through unless you are looking at paying a grand or more on a monitored punter.
Sometime there isn't enough cash in the shop so we can put some on your debit card or ask you to come back tomorrow or recommend going to another shop. This is dependant on the win as we can pay out most money.
Winning accounts. When I worked online punters who were beating the price, arbing etc were restricted. Punters who had large wins but on generally favs etc we always felt that we can take him on and win in the long run.
In shop the only info that gets sent out is about fraudsters, slow counters and general buggers. I have't seen anything to say joe bloggs has won X so we cant serve him.
hedge, good post, nothing unreasonable
from what I can see.
from what I can see.
Perhaps the 'biggest liability' bet taken
may be a better question.
may be a better question.
Some laughable "phone for bet acceptance" from memory were:
£30e/w on a 15/8 fav (early morning price but come on!)
£5 win on the local county to win all 4 cricket competitions that year at 20,000/1
£500 on a single number on the Irish Lottery.
All three bets were accepted and were all winners for the firm
We layed £3k on Celtic to win the Scot Prem in 1997/98 at 7/2 which promptly came in for the punter.
Once managed to move a ante-post cricket market on the local county without even taking a bet! Customer wanted £1k on at 7/1. He was a completely unknown customer to us... phoned up for "permission to lay," they offered something like £200 at 7's, £200 at 13/2 and the rest at 6's. Customer said no and walked off... 5 mins later, the firm reduced the odds to 6's anyway!
The biggest liability of "live" money I ever faced myself was another unknown customer who wanted to place £10 combination tri-casts of 6 or 7 selections (out of 17 runners) for a 5f race at Lingfield on their grass surface, not the a/w. The draw bias was/is notorious. I just knocked the guy back completely without even bothering to phone up.
Once had a customer who everyday placed a £1 acca on four horses at sp. One day, the first three came in at 6/1, 10/1 and 14/1. Didn't even realise the situation until just as the opening show for the 4th selection came through.... opened at 33's! A quick emergency phone call and the board price tumbled to 12's within 2 minutes (it was a mid winter meeting at a minor track on Tuesday, something like that.) Horse finished 3rd in a blanket finish.
Other notable memories:
Spending nearly two hours on Sunday with only one customer the entire time who was betting £20 and £50 every single dog and horse race - he was a known Premiership player at the time.
A trainee cashier who on their interview, apparently asked "how much does a bet cost?" (and we still hired him!) The same cashier shortly after, got hit by a slow count team but he was so bad at his job, he actually prevented the con from happening.
Various "Cilla Black" type moments of people meeting up with each other after decades mixed in marriage proposals, banned ex-snooker pros kicking off for not getting served, power cuts lasting multiple hours and shop still getting busier(?!) two staff thrown off the premises for fraud, regular trips to the police station with syringes found in the toilets, a CS gas attack, constant epileptic fits from the same customer who insisted playing the fruit machines.
Ive forgotten far more. Happy days
£30e/w on a 15/8 fav (early morning price but come on!)
£5 win on the local county to win all 4 cricket competitions that year at 20,000/1
£500 on a single number on the Irish Lottery.
All three bets were accepted and were all winners for the firm
We layed £3k on Celtic to win the Scot Prem in 1997/98 at 7/2 which promptly came in for the punter.
Once managed to move a ante-post cricket market on the local county without even taking a bet! Customer wanted £1k on at 7/1. He was a completely unknown customer to us... phoned up for "permission to lay," they offered something like £200 at 7's, £200 at 13/2 and the rest at 6's. Customer said no and walked off... 5 mins later, the firm reduced the odds to 6's anyway!
The biggest liability of "live" money I ever faced myself was another unknown customer who wanted to place £10 combination tri-casts of 6 or 7 selections (out of 17 runners) for a 5f race at Lingfield on their grass surface, not the a/w. The draw bias was/is notorious. I just knocked the guy back completely without even bothering to phone up.
Once had a customer who everyday placed a £1 acca on four horses at sp. One day, the first three came in at 6/1, 10/1 and 14/1. Didn't even realise the situation until just as the opening show for the 4th selection came through.... opened at 33's! A quick emergency phone call and the board price tumbled to 12's within 2 minutes (it was a mid winter meeting at a minor track on Tuesday, something like that.) Horse finished 3rd in a blanket finish.
Other notable memories:
Spending nearly two hours on Sunday with only one customer the entire time who was betting £20 and £50 every single dog and horse race - he was a known Premiership player at the time.
A trainee cashier who on their interview, apparently asked "how much does a bet cost?" (and we still hired him!) The same cashier shortly after, got hit by a slow count team but he was so bad at his job, he actually prevented the con from happening.
Various "Cilla Black" type moments of people meeting up with each other after decades mixed in marriage proposals, banned ex-snooker pros kicking off for not getting served, power cuts lasting multiple hours and shop still getting busier(?!) two staff thrown off the premises for fraud, regular trips to the police station with syringes found in the toilets, a CS gas attack, constant epileptic fits from the same customer who insisted playing the fruit machines.
Ive forgotten far more. Happy days
In the shop biggest bet I've personally taken was £150 on a horse in the region of 9/2 or thereabouts. nothing crazy, hence the reason i just took it (naughty boy that I am.) When i worked online it was £16,000 on a football match. No problems laying it as it was Arsenal / Man Utd and from one of our preferred clients (general loser. If its a football match then there was usually no probs accepting teh larger stakes. especially a big game as it doesn't skew the book too much and most info is in the public domain. Horses were different as there is the chance of someone knowing more than the traders etc etc. However our Horse team did like to take the punters on. Everyone may moan but the traders have to answer to management.
kenilworth 29 Jul 13 10:59 Joined: 04 Nov 05 | Topic/replies: 11,938 | Blogger: kenilworth's blog
Good post by Pounf. I was in the betting shop business for around 25 years and
and can assure anyone that punters tipping staff simply doesn't happen, except
when someone has a big win, say £500+ for small stakes, then perhaps a fiver
may be proffered.
you must have had some right toads punting in your shop kenilworth,i ALWAYS tip when i get a draw,the more ive won the more i tip,the end result being the staff WANT to pay me and this helps the punters life no-end
Good post by Pounf. I was in the betting shop business for around 25 years and
and can assure anyone that punters tipping staff simply doesn't happen, except
when someone has a big win, say £500+ for small stakes, then perhaps a fiver
may be proffered.
you must have had some right toads punting in your shop kenilworth,i ALWAYS tip when i get a draw,the more ive won the more i tip,the end result being the staff WANT to pay me and this helps the punters life no-end
150 as a biggest bet in the bookie seems quite small to be honest, I would have thought at least 500 quid
Patrick, you ALWAYS tip when you have a draw? the staff must love you!
BTW, do they tip you when you lose?
BTW, do they tip you when you lose?
This thread reminds me of the joke about the man whose job was circumcising elephants in a zoo. The pay was poor but the tips were BIG. Boom boom.
My close relative (let's call him/her 'R' from hereon) has worked for one of the high street 'giants' as an Assistant Manager for about a year and from what I hear, there are a lot of disillusioned managers and staff out there.
The pay is barely above minimum wage and most staff are effectively part-time, because their hours are capped (in R's case - 25 hours a week, which is not a liveable wage. Some staff are content to be p-t (mums who have kids to take/collect from school, for example) but they do very little, or nothing, to encourage dedication and ambition, because there is a glass ceiling. The next level up from R (Deputy Manager) has only a fixed 30-hour weekly and I think the shop managers might be on around 40 hours, although it's fair to assume that managers at busier shops are expected to work longer hours. Location obviously makes a difference.
My R has often, at very short notice, had to cover for other less dedicated staff who have called in 'sick' by opening the shop at 8.00am and work through until 10.00pm, when the lunatics who play the FOBTs have finally thrown away their last £50, kicked the machine and skulked out of the door. You'd think this would boost his hours and earnings . . . until the person (Area Manager) who organises the weekly rota (no doubt under pressure from head office) calls him the next day or later that week to say his hours have been cut and his schedule changed, to keep within his minimum 25-hour terms of employment.
In the latter part of last year, the firm axed all its cleaners - very poorly paid people, including many ethnics who sent all or most of their meagre 'wages' home to their families. Now the staff have to keep the toilets in the shop clean . . . while the high street firms splash out millions of pounds on TV advertising.
So tips from winning and satisfied punters, though not presumed, are important and much appreciated. A bloke came into R's shop the other day and not only gave R and a colleague £30 each, he also bought them a drink in the next door pub after the betting shop closing time at 10pm. This, despite the fact that the generous punter still had to wait until the next day to collect the rest of his £3k winnings, because the shop had been 'cleaned out' by a lucky FOBT player shortly before closing!
As others have mentioned, successful punters are closely monitored. A computer in the shop keeps a precise log of every bet he/she has had in the course of the year, as well as how much they have won/loss, and staff are expected to keep a close eye on those who appear on it. In R's shop, one punter (and not necessarily the biggest or most successful) has so far this year turned over more than £700,000 in the one shop and lost £50k overall, so he's perfect in the eyes of the management. The shop actually gives these profiled punters a nickname - Phil the Greek, or Irish Joe, or Chinese Al, etc, etc.
An outsider who has no experience of the betting shop world would be amazed by some of what goes on between punters and managers/staff. Bias aside, I know my R is a personable, humourous but also efficient member of staff and R has good banter with the regulars.
Of course you'll always have some idiot trying it on. Someone came in the other day and virtually accused the staff of paying him with a fake £10 note, and he returned a few days later to complain and ask for a replacement. When asked to produce the alleged fake tenner so they could check it, he told them he didn't have it on him!
How desperately stupid can some of these people be.
Another prat tried a variation of the notorious 'slow count' the other day, attempting to place a string of bizarre bets, initially on a dog race that was about to go 'off'. He began by wagering £200, then £2, then another £100, then £1.50 . . . all on the same dog to win. Each time the staff member had to produce another ticket and register the bet on the computer, which obviously takes up a fdew seconds each time. And just as they were about to go into the traps, he tells the staff he intends to pay using his debit card . . . "Oh, and by the way," he adds, trying to look serious, "can you give me a price on Rooney to be top scorer next season?"
And how many times do they try and deceive the shop by scribbling a number that they hope can be interpreted in different ways - a 3 becoming an 8, for example.
Really. You couldn't make it up half the time.
What I'm trying to say in a very long-winded way is that there are a lot of good, decent betting shop managers and staff out there who are poorly paid, treated badly by senior management who have no idea what it's like to be on the shop floor, and have to put up with a lot of s*** from some of the saddest dregs of society who are trying to deceive them.
My R would love to leave and find a better job with better pay, more structured hours and a career development path, but we all know what the job situation out there is like these days.
I could write a book (or a TV script) based on the characters and shenanigans that occur in betting shops. I might just do so.
Sorry I waffled on.
The pay is barely above minimum wage and most staff are effectively part-time, because their hours are capped (in R's case - 25 hours a week, which is not a liveable wage. Some staff are content to be p-t (mums who have kids to take/collect from school, for example) but they do very little, or nothing, to encourage dedication and ambition, because there is a glass ceiling. The next level up from R (Deputy Manager) has only a fixed 30-hour weekly and I think the shop managers might be on around 40 hours, although it's fair to assume that managers at busier shops are expected to work longer hours. Location obviously makes a difference.
My R has often, at very short notice, had to cover for other less dedicated staff who have called in 'sick' by opening the shop at 8.00am and work through until 10.00pm, when the lunatics who play the FOBTs have finally thrown away their last £50, kicked the machine and skulked out of the door. You'd think this would boost his hours and earnings . . . until the person (Area Manager) who organises the weekly rota (no doubt under pressure from head office) calls him the next day or later that week to say his hours have been cut and his schedule changed, to keep within his minimum 25-hour terms of employment.
In the latter part of last year, the firm axed all its cleaners - very poorly paid people, including many ethnics who sent all or most of their meagre 'wages' home to their families. Now the staff have to keep the toilets in the shop clean . . . while the high street firms splash out millions of pounds on TV advertising.
So tips from winning and satisfied punters, though not presumed, are important and much appreciated. A bloke came into R's shop the other day and not only gave R and a colleague £30 each, he also bought them a drink in the next door pub after the betting shop closing time at 10pm. This, despite the fact that the generous punter still had to wait until the next day to collect the rest of his £3k winnings, because the shop had been 'cleaned out' by a lucky FOBT player shortly before closing!
As others have mentioned, successful punters are closely monitored. A computer in the shop keeps a precise log of every bet he/she has had in the course of the year, as well as how much they have won/loss, and staff are expected to keep a close eye on those who appear on it. In R's shop, one punter (and not necessarily the biggest or most successful) has so far this year turned over more than £700,000 in the one shop and lost £50k overall, so he's perfect in the eyes of the management. The shop actually gives these profiled punters a nickname - Phil the Greek, or Irish Joe, or Chinese Al, etc, etc.
An outsider who has no experience of the betting shop world would be amazed by some of what goes on between punters and managers/staff. Bias aside, I know my R is a personable, humourous but also efficient member of staff and R has good banter with the regulars.
Of course you'll always have some idiot trying it on. Someone came in the other day and virtually accused the staff of paying him with a fake £10 note, and he returned a few days later to complain and ask for a replacement. When asked to produce the alleged fake tenner so they could check it, he told them he didn't have it on him!
How desperately stupid can some of these people be.
Another prat tried a variation of the notorious 'slow count' the other day, attempting to place a string of bizarre bets, initially on a dog race that was about to go 'off'. He began by wagering £200, then £2, then another £100, then £1.50 . . . all on the same dog to win. Each time the staff member had to produce another ticket and register the bet on the computer, which obviously takes up a fdew seconds each time. And just as they were about to go into the traps, he tells the staff he intends to pay using his debit card . . . "Oh, and by the way," he adds, trying to look serious, "can you give me a price on Rooney to be top scorer next season?"
And how many times do they try and deceive the shop by scribbling a number that they hope can be interpreted in different ways - a 3 becoming an 8, for example.
Really. You couldn't make it up half the time.
What I'm trying to say in a very long-winded way is that there are a lot of good, decent betting shop managers and staff out there who are poorly paid, treated badly by senior management who have no idea what it's like to be on the shop floor, and have to put up with a lot of s*** from some of the saddest dregs of society who are trying to deceive them.
My R would love to leave and find a better job with better pay, more structured hours and a career development path, but we all know what the job situation out there is like these days.
I could write a book (or a TV script) based on the characters and shenanigans that occur in betting shops. I might just do so.
Sorry I waffled on.
went into my bookies the other day to collect winnings £40 from last saturday
i kept bet slip in my wallet,part of bar code an number worn off
she gave me a telling off,because computer couldn't read the bet
told me to take better care of betting slip
i kept bet slip in my wallet,part of bar code an number worn off
she gave me a telling off,because computer couldn't read the bet
told me to take better care of betting slip
I don't tip out of the goodness of my heart, but can be very useful to have staff on side, when they're deciding whether to call up your bets etc. Also speeds up the bigger payouts as they'll want to be the one who goes and empties the machine to pay you now instead of making you wait till tomorrow or go to another shop
Hello!
I was wondering why you guys still go in the shops when you've got everything on tap with your computer?
I was wondering why you guys still go in the shops when you've got everything on tap with your computer?
I wonder why people play golf when they can just do it on the Wi.
I wonder why people go for a walk outside when they can just walk around the house.
I wonder why people go to the pub when they can buy their booze from Tesco's
I wonder why people go to Pizza Express when they can just stick a pizza in the oven
I wonder why people go for a walk outside when they can just walk around the house.
I wonder why people go to the pub when they can buy their booze from Tesco's
I wonder why people go to Pizza Express when they can just stick a pizza in the oven
Are you saying the betting shops are a better experience than punting from your computer?
Are you saying playing slots or blackjack on your computer is a better experience than going to Vegas?
Isn't it better to get out of the house and add a bit of variety?
Isn't it better to get out of the house and add a bit of variety?
No, I didn't say anything.
Did visit a bookie round here recently - there are tons of them on the local high street - found it pretty depressing and didn't feel particularly safe leaving with my winnings in my pocket.
Totally agree about getting out of the house, but I'd rather go do something else.
Did visit a bookie round here recently - there are tons of them on the local high street - found it pretty depressing and didn't feel particularly safe leaving with my winnings in my pocket.
Totally agree about getting out of the house, but I'd rather go do something else.
As others have mentioned, successful punters are closely monitored. A computer in the shop keeps a precise log of every bet he/she has had in the course of the year, as well as how much they have won/loss, and staff are expected to keep a close eye on those who appear on it.
Really he shouldn't be going into the same shop
Really he shouldn't be going into the same shop
JLivermore,
Whilst I do most of my betting online I much prefer going to the bookies to pick up cash to seeing my online balance increase.
Whilst I do most of my betting online I much prefer going to the bookies to pick up cash to seeing my online balance increase.
1) I don't bet on line, but I am up betting in shops in Brighton and they haven't banned me yet. However, it is only on unusual bets that I bet with them which are infrequent which will help.
2) They can't pay out £1000 often, but will get it if you come back later/tomorrow. They won't let me bet enough to win much more. Even at Cheltenham one spineless bookie would only take £50 at the 14-1 advertised.
3) Don't know.
2) They can't pay out £1000 often, but will get it if you come back later/tomorrow. They won't let me bet enough to win much more. Even at Cheltenham one spineless bookie would only take £50 at the 14-1 advertised.
3) Don't know.
That's a great post, Plechy. I think I know what your relative is going through.
I used to work for the major bookmakers in the 90s. I started as a Planning Accountant in the head office of one. After a few months and little effort on my part I left by mutual consent. However, while sojourning there, I came across some lever arch files detailing the betting patterns of big staking customers (Customer Logs). I can't say I learned much from them but they were a lot more interesting than the book-keeping !
After that I spent several years working for another bookmaker as shop manager. At that time, Thatcher's deregulation of the betting industry and disection of workers rights was in full swing. For the most part the customers were affable but, as in your relative's experience, there were a few nasty individuals too.
Having been a regular punter since my late teens and allied to my own personal experience of working in a betting shop, I am very cognisant of what shop staff have to put up with from self-serving management and customers.
I don't bet much nowadays but, in the past, I would occasionally tip if I had a big win and the shop staff were courteous and helpful. One thing I have never swayed from though ; if a shop employee ever overpaid me (missettlement or counting error) I would point out the mistake and return the overpayment. I have returned several hundred over the years (on one occasion, 100). I do this because, during my time working in the shops, it wasn't unusual for someone to get a verbal or written warning (think yellow card), for such an error which, if repeated, could lead to a dismissal. I know that in many cases where such a mistake was made, the member of staff responsible would make up the cash shortfall out of their own pocket so as to avoid the warning.
I used to work for the major bookmakers in the 90s. I started as a Planning Accountant in the head office of one. After a few months and little effort on my part I left by mutual consent. However, while sojourning there, I came across some lever arch files detailing the betting patterns of big staking customers (Customer Logs). I can't say I learned much from them but they were a lot more interesting than the book-keeping !
After that I spent several years working for another bookmaker as shop manager. At that time, Thatcher's deregulation of the betting industry and disection of workers rights was in full swing. For the most part the customers were affable but, as in your relative's experience, there were a few nasty individuals too.
Having been a regular punter since my late teens and allied to my own personal experience of working in a betting shop, I am very cognisant of what shop staff have to put up with from self-serving management and customers.
I don't bet much nowadays but, in the past, I would occasionally tip if I had a big win and the shop staff were courteous and helpful. One thing I have never swayed from though ; if a shop employee ever overpaid me (missettlement or counting error) I would point out the mistake and return the overpayment. I have returned several hundred over the years (on one occasion, 100). I do this because, during my time working in the shops, it wasn't unusual for someone to get a verbal or written warning (think yellow card), for such an error which, if repeated, could lead to a dismissal. I know that in many cases where such a mistake was made, the member of staff responsible would make up the cash shortfall out of their own pocket so as to avoid the warning.
To answer Part 1 of Ayers Rock's question, and as at lest one other poster has alluded to, it is only neccessary for a customer to show discernment in their betting regardless of whether they are a net winner/loser for their online account to be restricted or closed.
Now on my 3rd bank account using friends name/address as been barred from everyone twice over
Totally random to how they bar you, won a fortune with V.C and they kept letting me bet for a few months until it finally went. Opened a new one in a friends name and it lasted around 6 bets. Worse thing about it is I had a decent long term bet and there was no way to track it or withdraw when it won, I had to chase them up on the phone after no money went into my account.
Notable occasions when barred, Sportingbet, barred after 1 winning bet. Stan James barred after losing one bet of £700! Yes really happened, took a very early price on a game where the price crashed and there was a massive gamble, bet lost, account closed.
Worse by far were skybet where every acc went very early, the main 3 have been the best and took quite a while to go. From experience the main things they go for are;
Betting on one sport, especially if it is a more obscure sport or lower division, one where they have little to go on - Betting long before the event - Always been on the right side of the price - Actually winning seems way down as said you could just be a mug on a good run.
Totally random to how they bar you, won a fortune with V.C and they kept letting me bet for a few months until it finally went. Opened a new one in a friends name and it lasted around 6 bets. Worse thing about it is I had a decent long term bet and there was no way to track it or withdraw when it won, I had to chase them up on the phone after no money went into my account.
Notable occasions when barred, Sportingbet, barred after 1 winning bet. Stan James barred after losing one bet of £700! Yes really happened, took a very early price on a game where the price crashed and there was a massive gamble, bet lost, account closed.
Worse by far were skybet where every acc went very early, the main 3 have been the best and took quite a while to go. From experience the main things they go for are;
Betting on one sport, especially if it is a more obscure sport or lower division, one where they have little to go on - Betting long before the event - Always been on the right side of the price - Actually winning seems way down as said you could just be a mug on a good run.
i would love to know why stan SJ banned you after you're one and only bet - that lost.
Just to give a quick update on this.
I asked for a bet last week with one of the big 4. They offered me 10% of the stake requested. This was a big event.
I then went into the shop on Monday to collect the winnings. I knew full well that they would not have the money but wanted to sort out a time when they would have the money as I wanted it back in cash. I was told to come back today and it would be waiting for me. I go there this morning and am told they don't have it and that I will have to go to a bank in a different location later this afternoon.
Their incompetence knows no bounds.
I asked for a bet last week with one of the big 4. They offered me 10% of the stake requested. This was a big event.
I then went into the shop on Monday to collect the winnings. I knew full well that they would not have the money but wanted to sort out a time when they would have the money as I wanted it back in cash. I was told to come back today and it would be waiting for me. I go there this morning and am told they don't have it and that I will have to go to a bank in a different location later this afternoon.
Their incompetence knows no bounds.
Tom,
From my experience, its about 95% likely that the shop staff have been stitched up my senior management. They're so obsessed with security that they wont even trust their shop managers when it comes to paying anything over £1000. They'd prefer to pay you via cheque in order to get more of a firm grip on your identity but even then, the shop managers cant simply write an £8k cheque for example.
A couple of times I had to go to a bank to withdraw the cash with the customer and then escort them to their own bank to make the deposit (for understandable security reasons.) Both times the customer was at best, severely annoyed and it was incredibly difficult not to show the fact that I completely agreed with them in order to "portray a company line" etc.
From my experience, its about 95% likely that the shop staff have been stitched up my senior management. They're so obsessed with security that they wont even trust their shop managers when it comes to paying anything over £1000. They'd prefer to pay you via cheque in order to get more of a firm grip on your identity but even then, the shop managers cant simply write an £8k cheque for example.
A couple of times I had to go to a bank to withdraw the cash with the customer and then escort them to their own bank to make the deposit (for understandable security reasons.) Both times the customer was at best, severely annoyed and it was incredibly difficult not to show the fact that I completely agreed with them in order to "portray a company line" etc.
This has been bugging me ever since this thread started but I'm wondering who the 3rd and 4th biggest bookies are?
I take it William Hill and Ladbrokes are first and second?
I'm guessing that Betfred & Paddy Power are third and fourth?
I take it William Hill and Ladbrokes are first and second?
I'm guessing that Betfred & Paddy Power are third and fourth?
Aug 7, 2013 -- 8:02AM, sheppy123 wrote:
This has been bugging me ever since this thread started but I'm wondering who the 3rd and 4th biggest bookies are?I take it William Hill and Ladbrokes are first and second?I'm guessing that Betfred & Paddy Power are third and fourth?
I feel this will be the general consensus. 3 out of my big 4 i should imagine most mugs here have never used..
I think it is fair to say Ladbrokes and Hills are 1 and 2. I think Corals are 3rd in terms of high street presence. After that bit of a toss up between Betfred and Paddys. Online Bet365 are right up there.
1 Pinny, 2 SBO 3, Marathon. High street books to busy mugging punters off.
If you are talking about online bookies (which the first part of the OP was) then I believe that B365 are the biggest in the UK.
How do you define biggest? Takes the most mug 50p bets?
Profits of £179M on £20bn turnover - thats a lot of 50p's (and according to this article thats more than Hills and Lads combined):
.
http://calvinayre.com/2013/06/21/business/bet365-full-year-profit-rises-by-a-third/
.
http://calvinayre.com/2013/06/21/business/bet365-full-year-profit-rises-by-a-third/
Phew! What have I started!
I didn't realise it was so subjective. Going off the title of the thread I thought there was 4 that stuck out more than the others.
Phew! I forgot all about Coral!
Before I asked the question I searched around thinking that the answer would be really obvious. That's why I put it to you guys that know well more than I do!
I didn't realise it was so subjective. Going off the title of the thread I thought there was 4 that stuck out more than the others.
Phew! I forgot all about Coral!
Before I asked the question I searched around thinking that the answer would be really obvious. That's why I put it to you guys that know well more than I do!
Gin - that's operating profits if you care to look a bit closer into the figures you quoted. You have conveniently forgotten to mention that the operating profit of £179m was struck before over £30m stemming from its controlling interest in Stoke City : that's losses to you and I and I dare say to the man in the street. It's always worth quoting the correct figures to support your point rather than simply pluck numbers from part of the accounts that suit your purpose imo.
LOL - I don't have a "purpose" to suit Comp. The relevant point is that they are the biggest online UK bookie.
- I don't have a "purpose" to suit Comp. The relevant point is that they are the biggest online UK bookie.
Has anybody stopped to think how these places make their huge profits on the online sites they run.
Aug 7, 2013 -- 3:47PM, mikenz wrote:
Has anybody stopped to think how these places make their huge profits on the online sites they run.
loooooooooooool
I wil add that at least betfair only take money off me when I win,others when I lose lol
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