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touche
29 May 12 15:32
Joined:
Date Joined: 11 Apr 05
| Topic/replies: 331 | Blogger: touche's blog
what's the situation? will Betfair be banned in Spain?
Pause Switch to Standard View Betfair in Spain from July 1st
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Report FINE AS FROG HAIR May 29, 2012 8:44 PM BST
Why ?
What is happening on July 1 ?
Report CrowsEye May 29, 2012 8:53 PM BST
888 Holdings yesterday became the latest gaming company to hand over millions of euros to the Spanish taxman after the country's authorities called for taxes to be paid under two laws that did not previously apply to foreign gambling operators.
The shock move has been described by insiders as a desperate "austerity tax grab" as operators such as 888, bwin.party digital and Sportingbet are having to cough up for a tax that wasn't previously even on their radar.
Under normal circumstances, such a blatant tax grab would have the lawyers up in arms, but Spain's timing is nothing if not canny.
The tax was mooted just weeks before a number of online gaming groups are due to hear whether they have secured an official licence to operate in the country.
While there's a distinct possibility that the backdated tax will be challenged through the courts further down the line, 888 has paid up €8.7m (£6.9m) to meet the demand.
Bwin.party digital has handed over €33m, Betfair has agreed to pay a sum of "not more" than €10m and Sportingbet is taking a €17.2m hit.
Sportingbet, which was the first company to alert the market to the Spanish tax issue last Monday, saw its shares tumble 7pc on the day of its announcement as investors grew nervous about the rising costs associated with entering markets that are going through the regulation process.
Several countries – including the UK and Germany – are going down the regulation route, but Nick Batram, analyst with Peel Hunt, believes the likelihood of others trying to pull off a Spanish-style tax grab is limited.
"While Greece may well try to adopt a similar approach, we do not see other markets following suit," he said.
As a result, the reaction in the Square Mile over the past week has been relatively muted.
The cost of securing a licence in regulated markets may be rising, but the general view in the City is regulation offers an opportunity to grab market share for the bigger operators as it will squeeze out the cowboys and the small fry.
The risks are not to be underestimated, but a more stable, regulated operating environment will also encourage greater investment to boost market share.
Panmure Gordon has a "buy" rating on 888, saying a Spanish licence will allow it to "invest significantly in the market to secure meaningful market share".
The gaming company, which had cash and cash equivalents of $81.85m (£52.1m) at its year-end, has "sufficient" liquid resources to meet the payment, according to Panmure analyst Simon French.
Numis is similarly bullish about bwin.party, which generates about 5pc of its revenue in Spain and has a healthy cash pile of €198m.
The broker believes bwin.party will be able to better leverage its already considerable position in sportsbook and betting – plus its sponsorship of Real Madrid – to attract more customers.
Sportingbet's shares have suffered of late, losing 10.61pc in the past month, but Barclays believes the sell-off is overdone. The company's Spanish language websites Miapuesta.es and Miapuesta.com – which were shut by a court in Madrid in March due to competition issues – are expected to re-open this summer.
With Euro 2012 just around the corner and the promise of some US states also opening up to online gambling, there's clear potential in online gaming stocks for those who enjoy a flutter.
Buy.
Report Mr.Anderson May 29, 2012 9:39 PM BST
They might allow online gambling in parts of the Land of the Free soon?:o

Fingers crossed for no license trouble in Spain.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR May 29, 2012 9:42 PM BST
So what is the July 1 deadline about ?
Report Mr.Anderson May 29, 2012 9:52 PM BST
I assume BF and other gambling companies need a license to continue to operate in the country from that date?

There was talk about BF being banned in Spain at the beginning of this year, and only able to get a license at a later date. Guess the deadline was moved forward to July 1st so they could look at all license applications first.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR May 29, 2012 11:26 PM BST
What ? Right in the middle of the summer holidays, with all those Brits over there wanting a bet on their mobile whilst on the beach ?.
How insensitive and uncaring can Goverments get ?
Report CrowsEye May 30, 2012 8:43 AM BST
If they are registered with a British address it's not actually an issue FAFH.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR May 30, 2012 9:21 AM BST
Crows Eye
I thought that what mattered was the ISP that shows up when you log in.
For example, my understanding is that non-Australians cannot bet in-running whilst in Australia, irregardless if they are registered elsewhere, such as the UK.
So wouldn't the same apply in Spain ?
Report Mr.Anderson May 31, 2012 11:10 AM BST
If the ban in France is anything to go by it would also apply to visitors to that country.
Report Lex May 31, 2012 11:26 AM BST
I'm on my holidays to Alicante in July !

so I cant bet while Im there ?

can someone please clarify ?

this is bad noose lads...Cry
Report Mr.Anderson May 31, 2012 11:39 AM BST
Not saying they will be banned. I have no idea how big the risk is that they will not get a license.
Report Mr Magoo May 31, 2012 11:35 PM BST
Update on Betfair's Licensing and Tax Position in Spain
23/05/2012

The Spanish Government has stated its intention to issue a first wave of online gaming licences at the beginning of June. Betfair expects to be awarded a licence covering its sportsbook and certain casino products and intends to apply for a poker licence shortly thereafter. Under the terms of the licences, operators will pay a Gross Gaming Revenue tax of 25% on Spanish operations – a tax that Betfair has already been paying since May 2011 when Spain’s new gambling act was introduced.

Following the receipt of the initial licences, Betfair’s Exchange will be made unavailable to Spanish customers, who will be transferred to Betfair’s new sportsbook until exchange licences are issued. The regulation of betting exchanges is specifically provided for in primary legislation and the Spanish regulator has recently reiterated the intention to regulate exchanges and slots in a second wave of licensing, the process for which is expected to begin once the initial licences are issued.

Spain has, along with a number of other EU member states, been leading the way in the regulation of internet gambling. Betfair continues its constructive dialogue with the Spanish regulatory authorities and looks forward to working with them in the near future on the licensing of betting exchanges.

Separately, the Spanish tax authority has required online operators with customers in Spain to file tax returns and make a payment in respect of operations between January 2009 and May 2011 under historic laws dating from 1966 and 1977. Betfair can confirm that it has satisfied all requirements set out by the tax authorities and will be making a payment of not more than €10 million. The one-off nature of this charge means that it will be reported separately in the financial statements for the year ended 30 April 2012.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR June 1, 2012 4:17 AM BST
So es no problema senor ?
Report pistolo June 5, 2012 10:37 AM BST
in Spain on June 7 is the last day you can bet on exchange.betfair becomes sportsbook without Exchange. all residents in Spain should enter. is. . com is prohibited. our politicians are totally incompetent people and that has led Spain to the economic situation that you already know. rule for their companies and their friends and citizens are only those who pay their corrupt life.never listen to us.with the new regulation of gambling in Spain can not deduct losses. example: I earn in a year € 15000 but lost € 30000. W / L € -15000. but it must be taxed as if you had won € 15000 About the tax is 28%. I pay € 4200 more. I write all this so that everyone knows the kind of politicians who are in Spain most of them do not have studies. and access policy for being a relative or friend of someone. thanks for reading this.
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR June 5, 2012 11:43 AM BST
So I'm still unclear on the following.
If a UK citizen goes to Spain in ( say) august for a month's holiday in a rented flat/hotel room and wants to bet on BF, will he/she get on the exchange, if logging in on the internet connection at same flat/hotel room ?
Report Mr.Anderson June 5, 2012 12:20 PM BST
That is still unclear to me too Frog.

Sorry to hear about that completely unreasonable legislation pistolo.

A couple of years ago I was thinking about buying a house in Spain. I must say that I'm very happy that I never did.
Report pepelu2009 June 5, 2012 1:01 PM BST
i dont think so fine as a frog hair. you will can not access to betfair.com from spain or any sportsbook .com. you can only access with .es. and spanish goverment can see your account remotely. pandereta country we are.
Report pepelu2009 June 5, 2012 1:16 PM BST
dont come to spain there are no jobs here. there are a lot of corrupt politicians there´s no money for people. we have a 25% unemployment. many people are really going wrong. I know many people with gambling drew some money to live because they have no work. now they have nothing. i dont know what image we give to outsiders but I think you see us as a ridiculous country, because of our inept politicians.
Report Nick Knatterton June 5, 2012 1:35 PM BST
What's the sentence if you access Betfair through VPN? Is there already address where I can report to goverment about residents who are going to access site illegally?
Report FINE AS FROG HAIR June 5, 2012 2:58 PM BST
Wtf Nick.
Report Nick Knatterton June 5, 2012 6:13 PM BST
It's all about sharing the pie and as a nice guy myself I don't want anyone getting into trouble by breaking the law Love
Report Michael T June 7, 2012 1:17 PM BST
Is the assumption that eventually the exchange will be licensed and usable for clients and residents in Spain guys.
Report Lex June 7, 2012 2:55 PM BST
I would say so yes. 

I agree with one guy on here who said that the austerity measures of european countries is making them look for what ever they can claw back. They dont want punters losses to go out of the country where they cant tax it.

so once the tax arrangments are agreed it will be back to 'normal' (whatever that means)
Report Tolmi June 10, 2012 2:55 PM BST
Can you access betfair from Spain or is there just an issue with having a bet on it?
Report Lex June 10, 2012 4:10 PM BST
ok - is it illegal to use a VPN ?  if you dont know what this is google it.
Report nbdbscms June 11, 2012 10:02 AM BST
When betfair see these questions raised why don't they come on here and answer?Surely it's in their interests to do so.
Report Do wah Diddy June 11, 2012 10:06 AM BST
HAVE A BANANA BOAT RIDE AND STOP WORRYING
Report touche July 3, 2012 5:14 PM BST
So it's July 3rd now, what's the situation now? Can I access Betfair exchange from Spain? I'm going to Spain in vacation at the end of the month and I want to know.

Thank you
Report 666_v July 3, 2012 6:35 PM BST
It all depends on the colour of the apartment door you'll be staying in
Report DIE LINKE July 3, 2012 11:21 PM BST
thinly-veiled "packed the crab cream and off to Benidorm" post
Report Lex July 4, 2012 10:38 AM BST
Im sitting in my Alicante hotel room. Great WiFi   -

no betfair exchange only betfair.es with limited markets and all in spanish
Purple dont work either.

no bookmakers - all go to .es sites and you have to register.

Cant get access to VPN so I cant test to see if it works, but Ive been told that a GB BF account via VPN works, but not for me.

so now you know. Sad
Report touche July 7, 2012 10:38 AM BST
I heard that soon there will be a licence for Betfair to operate in Spain
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