Amazing scenes at purple

yep pretty good as of late

have also found there email help very quick and friendly

though compared to here thats not hard

betfair better hope that betdq technology f-ck up soon, or a lot of people will be asking why betfair has wasted so much money on technology when betdq did for less

Well done Feck, nice to see the other place is picking up a bit especially considering it's a Sunday too.

Excellent news, it's taken long enough.

Good competition is healty competition, mono-business types make too many mistakes when there dominace
creates a lack of effeciency, now purple has to learn how to build on its success and betfair has to learn by its mistakes.

i knew this loserwould comment on this post what a loser.

bf fananatic  the loser

If you ignore all his previous wind-ups, it's a sensible post.

big bossman, I've no axe to grind here, but I am aware that there are quite a few on bf fanatics back.

To be fair, his post above seems like a perfectly reasonable observation. Perhaps it has got to the stage where whatever he says is treated with derision whether it be a good point or not.

Good competition is healty competition, mono-business types make too many mistakes when there dominace
creates a lack of effeciency

The obvious mistake here being the PC.

yep

I think now alot of my prevoius posts were bias and wrong as its aparent to me now that although pc2 is a great solution for betfair to address revenue depletion to aid its over-spending internally its reaction by all customers generally and against the adopted past-ethos of the company there will
be major damage to there image and this will surely change the choices of pc1 payers who will soon reach pc2, new customers that realise the change in charging policy towards big winners and even those who dont make a profit and blame the system now that eats them alive.

People that use exchanges instead of bookmakers do so for a reason and that reason now is different at 2 different exchanges, this has to be bad for betfair and in the long term pc2 will hit betfairs activity related to those that dont pay it so it will drain the long term projected profits as these will now never be realised mid to long term.

Pardon?  Have you just said that you were wrong and that the PC2 is bad?

Yes because it has too much affect on all the customers moral that use betfair and it will do more harm than good mid to long term to the numbers of people that use/stay here or use the other exchange in direct consequence of betfair adopting pc2.

For betfair to say pc2 will only affect 0.1% of customers is wrong because it will have a grossly negative effect to the moral of the other 99.1% of customers so thats one of the biggest over-sights by the ops that concieved the charge.

Isn't that what we've been saying from the start?

If Betfair is really concerned about long-term growth, then there must be some other "friendly" way to prevents funds draining too quickly.  Slapping a "no winners here" tax on people should have been bottom of the list, imho.

Well, better late than never.

For instance look at the disaster that microsoft the biggest compny in the world made when it moved from windows XP to windows vista, Vista was a vast improvement but because customers didnt like using it and couldnt get to grips with it, plus it was flawed it failed terribly and microsoft admitted it was there biggest blunder, when creating windows 7 they did the most important thing that a business must do.

They realised that its people that will be using it and not 0.1% of the population that were brainy enough to be succesful using it.

Pc2 might look like a bigger profit making improvement on pc1 but its a complete disaster to betfairs image, customers perception of betfair and the ethos of all betting exchanges, but dare they admit it.

Has someone hacked into bf_fananatic's account?

Don,t think it will be long before we will see purple adopting the maxim of 17.5 per cent better odds than anywhere else.

No its me Mr Angry, I came to the conclusion that trying to relate to the reasons behind the pc2
made me unpopular because I was the only one seeming to support it and its painfully aparent that
everyone hates the pc2 that has posted on here, heres my perception of the breakdown of opinions of pc2.

a rough assesment only based on posts.

(a) posters against pc2 with contempt = 20%
(b) posters against pc2 with arguement= 40%
(c) posters against pc2 if asked      = 30%
(d) posters against pc2 payers        =  3%
(e) posters that relate to the charge =  3%
(f) undcided                          =  4%

So i reckon at least 90% of posters are against the charge so how do betfair justify saying it will
only affect 0.1% of customers?

PC2 is here now. Right, wrong, historical ethos of Betfair, etc, it's interesting to talk about but it's not really what matters.

What matters is what happens next.

I don't see a customer revolt. Not yet. A lot of words, yes, but little action. I only really know about in running and the guys at the front will not go. Even at 40% they cannot make anything similar anywhere else. The plankton appears not to be leaving either.

By being first Betfair have an entrenched market position. Coming second it is expensive to build liquidity. I think the most realistic outcome is that Betfair post greatly improved results on the back of the charge. That will motivate the competition when they see the size of the prize. We might then have downward pressure on premium charge rates, although we can't rule out collusion, or attempts to disguise how much the Premium Charge actually makes.

So short term I think we want PC2 to work. I'd bet the Betfair management are only thinking short term too.

Long term we're all worse off. We'll never have what we had before - one focal point for liquidity at low commission rates.

weatherman - you are right but liquidity on purple in running will no doubt improve as more people build positions on there pre-race. Its just inevitable and could be very quick if the momentum there continues.

weatherman

I left 100%...I have zero in betfair...I don't want to sit and wait for my head to bet cut off by betfsir

BFF has been browbeaten by council-tax rioting type democracy.

It's sad that you can't have an unpopular opinion on here without being ridiculed and insulted and I hope those responsible feel suitably ashamed.

BFF, I respect your change of view but don't think your figures mean much as i suspect there is a tendancy for those not inclined towards anti Pc postings to remain quiet.

catflmasppo, plenty of people have unpopular or opposing opinions on here and get away without being ridiculed and insulted. Setting up a new account to constantly goad and revel in others misfortune probably wasn't the best way to get his views across, whatever his agenda.

He'd be better off resigning that account to the chit chat forum and use one of his other accounts if he expects people to actually bother or read his views on PC.

I agree he isn't a master of diplomacy but IMO that hasn't earned the abuse he has received. I have never goaded or revelled in others misfortune but I have been subject to abuse, accusations of being a bf employee and even physically threatened by people who can only see pc from their own personal and selfish perspective.

And I by no means include everyone who argues against the pc in this criticism, I have read many earnest and well presented (but unconvincing [;)]) accounts, but there are a good few whose behaviour is on the wrong side of reasonable.

Often the money I've got matched on the purple site belies the visible liquidity. I've often wondered if some of it is down to PC payers hedging between the exchanges in an attempt to reduce their charges. At first glance that might suggest anything they're adding to betd@q they're adding to betfair but it still has to be a good thing for betd@q.

Often the money I've got matched on the purple site belies the visible liquidity. I've often wondered if some of it is down to PC payers hedging between the exchanges in an attempt to reduce their charges. At first glance that might suggest anything they're adding to betd@q they're adding to betfair but it still has to be a good thing for betd@q.

In fact thinking about it, if they're laying my back on betd@q then you could argue they're taking a value back away from the betfair site (assuming what I'm backing is value). It won't matter to betfair who takes the back on their site but it will matter to their other value customers.

Feck - The volumes across the road are interesting.  I am told by people on the forum that all the recreational players are on Betfair.  Well I consider myself a recreational player and I get matched in small volumes. Maybe the new liquidity is bots, I don't know, but what the heck a match is a match.  I always green/red up on Betfair, thats why I got the 60% premium charge, but over there I have changed my risk strategy and let my bets run, and to be honest it has been at least as profitable doing that.  With hindsight I wish Betfair never encouraged me to green up in the first place, then I wouldn't be stuck with 60% charges.

Were you laying back in running on here hazel?

In the main I always tried to green up before the off.  I was very risk adverse.  I did use in running though at times.  Most of my betting in the first few years was on UK horse racing ( I could lay 110%+ books at ease in the early days), but as the early market dried up and the reduction factor system got on my nerves I switched the majority of my bets to football and only played major horse race events where the early liquidity was stronger.

hazel, given your new modus operandi would you not get away with an account in someone else's name?

Feck _ I should add that I have been predominantly a layer on here, only backing to square up for either a green or a red situation.

Feck thats a leading question - Your friend Duncan will know that I am an upright citizen and would not dream of doing so (not that it crossed my mind I might add)

BFF lacks conviction.

He posted vehemently in defence of the charge. Made lots of sub points. Made them over and over. Does he now disagree with all of them?

Of course you can have an unpopular opinion on here. It's just a forum. You have to ignore 90% of the posts anyway.

There are people on here who continue to post things I strongly disagree with, but I respect them bevause they clearly stand behind what they post. I have little respect for BFF however as his posts have displayed a lack of genuine conviction from the start - too much that was posted in haste, without thought, and a lot that was contradictory.

Weatherman, first you dont like me because I tried to get my head round the reasons for pc2 and then made myself look like an employee, now I have considered and decided it is wrong to be like that when so many customers hate the pc2 now and you accuse me of being weak and that I should change my opinion that the pc2 is probably too damaging to everyones beliefs in the exchange model, I clearly cannot please you but I am not out to please anyone in particular I just want a fair exchange and if that means betfair may have to make greater changes than relying long term on a gross charge to do the trick then as a fan of all exchanges I conclude now that ;

PC2 WILL FAIL IN THE LONG TERM anyone care too run a book on it say for 2 years down the line from the implementation that the charge will of been revoked.

I will offer 2/1 that it will of been dropped but I will not lay it[;)]

sorry I mean I will offer 2/1 to anyone that thinks the charge at the same level or more will be still be in place, I womt offer money out to anyone that thinks it will have been made lower or cancelled as I believe it will need to be revoked.

Q....Why do I say this?

Ans...because one site offers a very low commmision rate and the other is percieved to act more like a bookmaker grossly charging anyone that makes a profit as an exchange was designed for persons to back against each other.

WE ARE NOT BETTING AGAINST BETFAIR AND THEY SHOULD NOT PERCEIVE THAT ALL MONEY
PLACED INTO ACCOUNTS IS ALL THERES TO OVER-PUMP UP THERE BUSINESS BEYOND THE REACH OF THE ONLY CREDIBLE RIVAL THATS IN THE GAME, THAT IS ACTING AS A MONOPOLY.

I still love betfair, always will as they created something very dear and special to all serious bettors but there is as this thread says and we all are noticing an upturn in the amounts being bet at purple and long term this will be blamed on the charge ;

AKA premium charge 2

Two possibilities as I see it.
a) You are a Betfair plant put in place to argue for the PC. When people quickly saw through you and it became obvious that you were making things worse not better, you were instructed to u-turn and appear to be an unhinged lunatic who could not, therefore, be a plant as people suspected.
b) You really are an unhinged lunatic.

Or he might just not have known what he was talking about.

I admit that I under estimated the "feel bad factor" that pc2 has created , I was getting to the point gerard that I thought everyone was bookmaer and purple plats on here but realized that most of you are all intelligent betfair customers and I was making myself look like a plonker so yes lordbobbin I diod not know what I was talking about defending 60% charge when clearly other exchanges can do the reverse and grab customers at a greater rate than betfair.

You may be able as a company to make a good rake ping-ponging the money around and charging anyone that banks a profit but how do you ping-pong all the new customers that you lose to a
percieved fairer rival long term?

I admit that I under estimated the "feel bad factor" that pc2 has created , I was getting to the point gerard that I thought everyone was bookmaker and purple plants on here but realized that most of you are all intelligent betfair customers and I was making myself look like a plonker so yes lordbobbin I diod not know what I was talking about defending 60% charge when clearly other exchanges can do the reverse and grab customers at a greater rate than betfair.

You may be able as a company to make a good rake ping-ponging the money around and charging anyone that banks a profit but how do you ping-pong all the new customers that you lose to a
percieved fairer rival long term?

betfair if you want to know who would make a good MD now to replace the current one and
address all your problems then trying ringing a pro-gambler , try ringing Andy Black

BFF - I do not profess to know "you" at all. I neither like nor dislike you. All I know is the representation you choose to portray on the forum, which I do not think is genuine.

I did not agree with your numerous posts in defence of PC2. I obviously do not like the charge, but I think I understand the rationale behind it. I think it's fairly straighforward, and I never agree with your arguments about it being necessary.

I agree with some of what you have posted recently.

But you have changed your opinion dramatically after arguing vehemently in defence of your previous position. It looks fickle to me. Like you simply don't care. As if this is just a game. There are posters here who obviously care. People who have far more invested in the future of this site than you do.

Some posters agree with your previous stance, and I respect them for it, because they obviously have strong beliefs, always post consistently and usually intelligently.

Liquidity was good again today (unfortunately ) considering it was two cr@p Monday meetings. Strangely the worst I've seen it lately was Saturday.

The opening post stated that some races the liquidity was more on ****.  If the races i compared today are anything to go by, they have a long way to go before that is the case

Listen up you men.. Betfair have more info than the lot of you put together  do we agree on that
they have a very good reason to bring in this 60%
why........ its to stop the cheats . well done Betfair   its all opinions and thats mine .

perhaps the winners on here are more effective than betfair and betfair are getting green eyed pre pc2 anyway

If betfair want to increase there margins they should do it internally and not off the backs of there best customers that built them up pre pc

just my opinion zipper

I agree that cheats should pay 60%.

But I'm now on 40% and I'm not a cheat.  In fact, I've always pushed for longer delays on my beloved football markets (even though in some a shorter delay would suit me) so as to make them fairer.

I feel unfairly punished.

(To put this into perspective I was "lucky" enough to have a massive losing month just after the PC was announced so haven't paid it yet, but expect to do so shortly).

Will they get their first million pound tennis match tonight?

Mr angry cosidering your treatment by this charging regime would you not consider earing less money somewhere else as an action of principal, thats the only way that a turn-around would happen mid-term if most pc2 payers voted with there money, purely a thought.

As I've not paid it yet I'm in no hurry to move.  As my markets are football Match Odds I believe there will be adequate liquidity at daq, especially given that they started to advertise on Talk Sport radio during matches.

Do they need to advertise as isn't the pc2 the best advertising any rival company could ever wish for, seems as if market forces always benefit the leanest animals, the slow and fat end up in the lions den[;)]

Talking of survival of the fittest,even monkeys know that the best tress are the ones where the most fruit fall from, they wouldn't be stupid enough to hang round a tree next door that dropped only 40% of fruit just because they had cocked there leg up on it and pizzed up it.

bf_fananatic
For betfair to say pc2 will only affect 0.1% of customers is wrong because it will have a grossly negative effect to the moral of the other 99.1% of customers so thats one of the biggest over-sights by the ops that concieved the charge.

forget the negative effect to the moral of the 99% non pc2 players... what about the missing liquidity and reduced value on betfair as a result of the dissapearance of the pc2 players with their big laying power...
i have noticed this last month inrunning football matches have been hit badly by the absence of the pc2 players with their big banks..

the pc2 will hit the non pc2 players with less value and less liquidity.

and they certainly wont be found hanging round bookmakers giving them all there bananas, perhaps we are not the brightest animals on the planet[;)]

pc1 did work and still will but pc2 will end up being a disaster long term, if it succeeded short term it will be an even bigger disaster long term as it will entrench betfair in its inefficiency
and "its ok to rob the winners" mentality that has made many leave the bookmaking scene.

Purely a philosophical thought but if you were a wannabe betting winner choosing an exchange who would you choose if you had an average understanding of the 2 exchanges?

the one that is perceived as the underdog that is rising to the fight by being as fair as possible

or the other that has been left on auto-pilot
with the throttle on full, burning all the gas with no clear direction or loyalty to its customers?

There can be only one answer unless your a hapless ignorant fool, but aren't they all at corals or some other seedy HS LBO and not the ones that want to use an exchange.

bff you managed to get a lot of the anti-PC customers to "block" you, are you trying to get the pro-pc customers to "block" you too?

slooow down with the posts, whatever position you take, lets have less of them.

Its a trait within my personality, I over work things, over think things, over express logic so no wonder my brain is in love with computers, just frustrated at the moment in between moving house and cant alot time to building my beloved databases, so need a creative avenue too pump out my logic

What ever I do I try and ping the lids and do the front running[;)]

I admire the gaze of an eagle or a greyhound testing the air,
if someone ever found heaven it would be me that built the stairs.

bloody annoying aren't I lol

BFF, I can understand how you can be influenced by some of the posters here, I have had my views shaped by much of what I have read, but you have gone from one violent extreme to the other.  It's hard to take what you are saying seriously and it leads me to doubt your sincerity.

Well cat, ultimately all I am and that shapes me is a sponge like mass of fizzing neurons stuck between my ears but once I have ping-ponged between different states of conjecture with all the data present I make a decision and I would rather make a nickel a day and place a cent in the right mans pocket than feed a greedy fool, if you catch my drift.

And for god sake don't take anything I say seriously because everything on the forum apart from solid facts is hot air and I have proved to be the biggest chimney on here[;)]

Lol, nice one but please son't stop feeding me [;)]

The opening post stated that some races the liquidity was more on ****.  If the races i compared today are anything to go by, they have a long way to go before that is the case

Gosmash, I did say in the op that only lasted 4 races. I've also said elsewhere that the money I've been getting matched belies the visible liquidity. You've much more chance of being matched if you stick the offer up and, if you do it through their API (currently I'm not) the commission is only 1%.

This isn't a jab to the postings on liquidity since reading it, it seems that those being matched are happy that it is finally being filled a the daq.

But the deception that remains on volume (unless it has changed since the last time I looked into it) was:

Betfair - 36.00 at £2 adds £4 to the volume total.

The daq - 36.00 at £2 adds £70 to the volume total.

Small wagers at longer odds add up.

Feck N. Eejit     11 Sep 11 17:53 
Won just short of 50% of what I won on my best ever day on betfair. The first 4 races today the money available on betd@q was BETTER than it was on betfair. On several occasions not only was the money available better but so was the price. Unfortunately it fell away after that

Possible connection between these two events imo.

Screaming, I only bet 2 of the first 4 winners. My subsequent bets suggest I would've got most of what I requested on those 2 winners in any case, just not as easily as I did.

Fair enough. I just wondered whether you'd wiped out some seeding bot over there in about half an hour.

Purple Place: A Snapshot of Tennis Volumes Pre and Post PC2 -

Wimbledon Final 2011: Total Matched £37,000 (4 sets)

US Open Final 2011: Total Matched £2,200,000 (4 sets)

Wow [:o][:o]  Was it really that low in the Wimbledon final ?
  And you would think a Wimbledon final normally would attract more money than a US Open final !!

yep most matches at the quacks struggled to make 5 figures pre PC2

I think you may be missing the point Eddie...

Doesn't look like it to me lordb.

I don't think Purple is so good..

Hantuchova match (not end yet) on BF : 1671721 EUR, Purple : 4078 EUR

Does to me Catflappo

IR no good though..?

Well purples terms and conditions doesn't look like a tax form so thats more than enough appeal for
any prospective bettor IMO

bf_fananatic
wot a nob brain.
go get help man.

I thought I could hear knuckles being dragged along, hows life as a relic mate

interesting thread.

on the subject of the quack advertising, i think they may actually benefit more from oddsch€cker's TV adverts than their own (dire) radio adverts.

the more odds comparison sites catch on with recreational punters, the more prices advertise themselves. and the more possible it becomes for purple to succeed in spite of itself.

jme
Date Joined: 30 Aug 03
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When: 13 Sep 11 16:28
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Purple Place: A Snapshot of Tennis Volumes Pre and Post PC2 -

Wimbledon Final 2011: Total Matched £37,000 (4 sets)

US Open Final 2011: Total Matched £2,200,000 (4 sets)


thanks jme for the interesting figures, as i understand purple calculate matched amount differently.. i guess on betfair around 30M would have matched on us open final... liquidity is low on purple

but it can snowball .. if they continue with lower commission rates many will move there

I think the pc2 charge will not last long.Whatever anyones view for or against pc2 the other side
is very playable now and people are moving there.It's a fact.
If the momentum increases then the pc2 charge will die sooner rather than later.
There must be something better that benefits the shareholders and the customers on here.

it seems its ok for horses but for footy its worse than ever .. unfortunately i don't do horses

i really thought things might change ... some liquidity in play ... but feck al

LordBobbbin, I can assure you I didn't miss the point..

thanks jme for the interesting figures, as i understand purple calculate matched amount differently.. i guess on betfair around 30M would have matched on us open final... liquidity is low on purple

Ocean, they do calculate differently but where odds on shots are concerned betfair's figures (which double the backer's stake) are inflated compared to purple's.

The purple place is bound to post some big numbers.

It's now hosting a Darwinian death match between the pros.

Well i've moved there as a matter of principle, not even close to the 250k. 2.5% comm against 4.5 and a limit to what you can win, no brainer!

Okay Eddie. In that case, apologies!                Repeat ten times to self. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo. I mustn't dispute Catflappo.

Check out the Kerry national, take out the bogus trades in the win market and there is less than a grand traded,even worse in the place market approx £70 traded.Betda q definately making a mistake here instead of giving the botboys and fast picture thieves preferrential rates why not try and attract the real liquidity providers ie punters with 1% comms and see where they go then?

Wonder whether they'll extend the 2.5% comms beyond the end of the month?

I, for one, won't sit around waiting for my bet to be matched (at Betfair prices) unless there is something in it for me.

JTG 12:22 is correct, imo

I and others have said this before, but I think it bears repeating whenever too much optimism about the quack breaks out.

an exchange made up primarily of winners is a long-term impossibility. actually, it's also a short term impossibility.

what is a short term possibility is an exchange made up primarily of self-perceived/historical winners. but as time passes, the new losers have to either drop out (likely) or start putting new money into the exchange (less likely).

ultimately, there's one question which needs to be answered plausibly:

what's the sustainable source of new, losing money?

I can't give much credence to the theory of winner eat winner (in a non mug exchange), but maybe this is down to the way I operate.  If I want a prce here I will ask for it.  I can always ask for it elsewhere simultaneously.  If I want to "take" a price I can do it anywhere, but for me I will always take where it offers most value (after commission if applicable etc).  So though an overall winner may match another winner it makes little difference as long as best prices taken as each exchange/bookie will more or less mimic each other in terms of available prices.  By spreading turnover instead of betting only here will reduce PC and thus is the main worry as I predict purple will soon catch up in liquidty which in turn will attract the so called "losers" money. 

On another note, I don't believe there is a shortage of "losers" money, hence the huge number of online bookies doing very well.