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Placed a football bet , taking the 11/8 on the coupon and writing it out on a slip . Cashier put it through ok . Went to collect a week later and i'm only being paid out at 11/10 . Told that's what the price had changed to .
Argued saying , '' i took the price off the coupon and you accepted it . I only backed it because it was 11/8 ''
Got told to ring customer services .
Where do i stand in your experiences ?
Is is worth fighting it all the way ?
Many thanks for the helpful replies .
Argued saying , '' i took the price off the coupon and you accepted it . I only backed it because it was 11/8 ''
Got told to ring customer services .
Where do i stand in your experiences ?
Is is worth fighting it all the way ?
Many thanks for the helpful replies .
Show More
Doesn't make a huge difference if they initialed the odds or not. The simple fact that the cashier accepted it at the price they advertised would be sufficient in itself. Of course if they could prove that the correct price was displayed on a sign nearby (I have seen this before so I assume it is not beyond the company 
) then that would be different of course.
Come to think of it, that would be another point to bring up in court.
"There was only one other person in your shop when my client tried to place his wager at 11am. Was it beyond your staff member to spend a few seconds checking on the monitor if the displayed price was accurate? Is that not part of their job?
You think we should take your word that a) the price changed the previous day when you said it did, b) your company was incapable of spending two minutes to remove all coupons displaying the price, c) your staff member could not have checked when accepting my clients money, as is part of their job, and d) the laws regarding advertising and relating to consumer protection which are relevant to every single other business in the country do not apply to you"
The judge would be a 1.00001 shot to rule in your favour. I seriously can't believe anyone who think they'd side with the bookie
Spare me the cobblers about them paying out "as a commercial decision" they wouldn't have a prayer if they wanted to take it any further. And they know it!
) then that would be different of course.Come to think of it, that would be another point to bring up in court.
"There was only one other person in your shop when my client tried to place his wager at 11am. Was it beyond your staff member to spend a few seconds checking on the monitor if the displayed price was accurate? Is that not part of their job?
You think we should take your word that a) the price changed the previous day when you said it did, b) your company was incapable of spending two minutes to remove all coupons displaying the price, c) your staff member could not have checked when accepting my clients money, as is part of their job, and d) the laws regarding advertising and relating to consumer protection which are relevant to every single other business in the country do not apply to you"
The judge would be a 1.00001 shot to rule in your favour. I seriously can't believe anyone who think they'd side with the bookie
Spare me the cobblers about them paying out "as a commercial decision" they wouldn't have a prayer if they wanted to take it any further. And they know it!
The simple fact that the cashier accepted it at the price they advertised would be sufficient in itself.
In which case bookmaker's cashier would be the most prized unskilled job in the country. I'd gladly bung any cashier a grand that would guarantee to "accept" my horse bets at advertised prices. It's ridiculous to suggest that the cashier should scrutinise every single bet they take.
In which case bookmaker's cashier would be the most prized unskilled job in the country. I'd gladly bung any cashier a grand that would guarantee to "accept" my horse bets at advertised prices. It's ridiculous to suggest that the cashier should scrutinise every single bet they take.
Regarding the football 'fixed odds' coupons, it's the lack of technology that is at fault here.
There would not be a problem if the coupons did not display the odds. The odds could be displayed on a monitor that is situated in the football corner of the betting shop. The punter would then make his selections as normal on a coupon that is the same as now except for the odds being shown.
At the counter, the fixed-odds coupons would be fed into a special till which would append the current odds to the selections marked on the coupon.
There would not be a problem if the coupons did not display the odds. The odds could be displayed on a monitor that is situated in the football corner of the betting shop. The punter would then make his selections as normal on a coupon that is the same as now except for the odds being shown.
At the counter, the fixed-odds coupons would be fed into a special till which would append the current odds to the selections marked on the coupon.
"It's ridiculous to suggest that the cashier should scrutinise every single bet they take"
Well Feck, how do you imagine they process horse and dog bets just before the off when a customer requests to take the current price
Well Feck, how do you imagine they process horse and dog bets just before the off when a customer requests to take the current price
The cashier checks the price and initials the slip as far as I can remember. I can't imagine a bookmaker would do much business though if the cashier was expected to read through every bet, check for late bets, check the spelling, caculate the stake, check for out of date odds marked on the slip etc. etc.
Appears i have no chance of being paid out at the price i took then . Scandalous i think .
Wondering if there would be any point in strongly-worded letter or email. I see Laying Like Maria has been mentioned - anyone have her email or someone of simlar experiences ? I have managed to find 'edrpool at yah00 dot co dot uk' from a previous LLM thread .
Wondering if there would be any point in strongly-worded letter or email. I see Laying Like Maria has been mentioned - anyone have her email or someone of simlar experiences ? I have managed to find 'edrpool at yah00 dot co dot uk' from a previous LLM thread .
DDuck, you are almost certain to be paid out at 11/8 if you do what I originally advised. LLM would advise simmilar, you can put up a thread calling him (it is a he, btw!) but you can save yourself some time by just doing that.
Of course, this is if it's worth doing, personally I would virtually regardless of stake.
Of course, this is if it's worth doing, personally I would virtually regardless of stake.
For me it isn't just about the money .
The customer services over the phone just kept on saying 'go to IBAS , go to IBAS , go to IBAS' . No word about 'i'm sorry the cashier took the wrong price on a win single bet off a coupon where the odds can differ . He should have double-checked'
The customer services over the phone just kept on saying 'go to IBAS , go to IBAS , go to IBAS' . No word about 'i'm sorry the cashier took the wrong price on a win single bet off a coupon where the odds can differ . He should have double-checked'
Ah, well, no shock there then. Don't bother with IBAS. Just do what I say, they'll back down, no problem.
"All prices are subject to fluctuation. All our usual rules apply."
^^^^^
I've seen shops put up signs saying "no refunds"
You really think that a company can get around the law just by putting a sign up?
I've seen shops put up signs saying "no refunds"
You really think that a company can get around the law just by putting a sign up?
turtleshead , you mean a letter threatening legal action ? Seems a bit over the top as i wouldn't know how to go about backing it up . Seems ok in theory but...
I gather no-one has actually had personal experience of a similar situation.
I gather no-one has actually had personal experience of a similar situation.
Oh, can we quote you in court?
Are you called turtleshead because its been seen coming out of your mouth?
Are you called turtleshead because its been seen coming out of your mouth?
My personal experience is that IBAS will certainly back up the bookie in this situation now, (I lost two and won one.). So when the matter arose yet again with the Tote, I appealed online to the Small Claims Court, as the process is very easy, and the Tote paid in a week. However, I had Tote EPOS slips contradicting their claims that "the price had changed."
There again, I have been comparing bookie prices to the exchange for EIGHT years, DDuck, so I cannot pretend to be naive.
There again, I have been comparing bookie prices to the exchange for EIGHT years, DDuck, so I cannot pretend to be naive.
ub, you can quote who you like.
Dduck, write the letter I mentioned. You WILL get paid. If the initial letter fails to do the trick, send a second letter naming place, date and time, that is certain to work.
Ignore IBAS, who are funded by the bookies.
The court will act fairly and reasonably, which is why the bookmaker won't let it get that far as they know they'd almost certainly lose.
Dduck, write the letter I mentioned. You WILL get paid. If the initial letter fails to do the trick, send a second letter naming place, date and time, that is certain to work.
Ignore IBAS, who are funded by the bookies.
The court will act fairly and reasonably, which is why the bookmaker won't let it get that far as they know they'd almost certainly lose.
The local small claims court where you will be waiting to see them.
Oh, and if you would like to put a little bit more pressure on them, find out from the local council when their shop licence is up for renewal, and say that you will oppose it when it happens
Oh, and if you would like to put a little bit more pressure on them, find out from the local council when their shop licence is up for renewal, and say that you will oppose it when it happens
turtleshead your advice is so misleading I feel sorry for the OP. You really haven`t got a clue about gambling law.
I know a darn sight more about it then you, that is obvious. The only misleading advice given on here is yours. I'm actually starting to wonder if you work for a bookmaker 
Ive been in and around the industry (both employer and employee) for over two decades and although i usually disagree with fecks views in this case imo he is totally correct, that said if it is worth the time and hassle to the op turtle has a point about the bookie not going to court, although th op has to balance his wasted time against the actual amount he will receive this is why most people accept what the bookie pays out and that is what they depend on . . . hth. . .
1. Take some flowers and chocolates in for a member of the female staff.
2. Slowly charm her over a series of monthly visits.
3. Wine and dine her.
4. Get engaged.
5. Get married.
6. Get her to make up the amount you lost on the price change.
2. Slowly charm her over a series of monthly visits.
3. Wine and dine her.
4. Get engaged.
5. Get married.
6. Get her to make up the amount you lost on the price change.
Bridgeboy, the online Small Claims Court process is surprisingly easy and quick.
read your comments dduck, but not quite sure who wrote the price on the slip
if it was you, then you have a 50/50 chance - if it was the cashier, then you have a 100% chance of success
if it was you, then you have a 50/50 chance - if it was the cashier, then you have a 100% chance of success
DDuck, why didn't you save yourself the hassle and put the bet on the coupon????
You get a receipt back which tells you what your returns will be and would have noticed any price change on the receipt.
You get a receipt back which tells you what your returns will be and would have noticed any price change on the receipt.
birch2, i did write in on myself and said to him i have got it from the coupon . i expected him to double-check the price of this 'fluctuating market' which i assume he did on his monitor and gave me the slip . 50/50 chance you say ?
stewarty b, i think Fred's are one of them who give you the whole A4 page as your copy so i prefer the little slip when placing just a win single bet .
stewarty b, i think Fred's are one of them who give you the whole A4 page as your copy so i prefer the little slip when placing just a win single bet .
I know a darn sight more about it then you, that is obvious. The only misleading advice given on here is yours. I'm actually starting to wonder if you work for a bookmaker Sad
As I have said before I don`t work for a bookmaker however I do know about gambling law extremely well indeed.
Just because certain things are weighted in favour of a bookmaker in law doesn`t mean that such factors can be ignored. You seem to be replying based on perceived fairness and not the law. They can be 2 very different beasts.
Obtaining payment and winning at court are 2 completely different things. Bookmakers and many other businesses for that matter often pay up without accepting liability before court due to costs and reputational issues. It doesn`t necessarily follow that they would have lost in court.I would hazard a gues that 90% plus of all employment cases that are settled before court would have been won by employers if they had actually reached court.
Based on the facts given ie you used a football coupon which had prices on it which their rules clearly state are subject to fluctuation I would suggest that it is your fault for accepting the receipt.
Having said that if you explain to customer services that you didn`t check the receipt and that the memeber of staff didn`t inform you of the price change as I assume they are supposed to then they will probably make a discretionary payment for the difference.
If they think it is a genuine mistake rather than you pulling a fast one then they might as well give you the difference to keep your custom.
Many of the amateur legal experts on here understandably talk from a biased punters perspective rather than a more objective legal view.
It is one of the unfortunate downsides of trying to help people on the forum with these type of issues because the objective view is often frowned on and you get accused of being a bookmaker with an ulterior motive. It does make you wonder why you bother at times.
If you want a good example of this find the thread started by Iris De Balme regarding restrictions in shops!
As I have said before I don`t work for a bookmaker however I do know about gambling law extremely well indeed.
Just because certain things are weighted in favour of a bookmaker in law doesn`t mean that such factors can be ignored. You seem to be replying based on perceived fairness and not the law. They can be 2 very different beasts.
Obtaining payment and winning at court are 2 completely different things. Bookmakers and many other businesses for that matter often pay up without accepting liability before court due to costs and reputational issues. It doesn`t necessarily follow that they would have lost in court.I would hazard a gues that 90% plus of all employment cases that are settled before court would have been won by employers if they had actually reached court.
Based on the facts given ie you used a football coupon which had prices on it which their rules clearly state are subject to fluctuation I would suggest that it is your fault for accepting the receipt.
Having said that if you explain to customer services that you didn`t check the receipt and that the memeber of staff didn`t inform you of the price change as I assume they are supposed to then they will probably make a discretionary payment for the difference.
If they think it is a genuine mistake rather than you pulling a fast one then they might as well give you the difference to keep your custom.
Many of the amateur legal experts on here understandably talk from a biased punters perspective rather than a more objective legal view.
It is one of the unfortunate downsides of trying to help people on the forum with these type of issues because the objective view is often frowned on and you get accused of being a bookmaker with an ulterior motive. It does make you wonder why you bother at times.
If you want a good example of this find the thread started by Iris De Balme regarding restrictions in shops!
DDuck, you can fold up an A4 page to fit in your wallet...
DDuck, why didn't you save yourself the hassle and put the bet on the coupon????
You get a receipt back which tells you what your returns will be and would have noticed any price change on the receipt.
That ain't necessarily so with Baldy. Last weekend, I put £50 on Falkirk with both Lads & Baldy. Both coupons said 4/9. Baldy paid 4/11.
Earlier that day, I tried to place £50 on West Brom with Baldy but was informed that the price had changed to 11/10.
When I asked the cashier why I hadn't been told of the price change, the duty manager said that they had had a message through during the afternoon, which said there had been a glitch in the system, and they had not been informed of the price change.
You get a receipt back which tells you what your returns will be and would have noticed any price change on the receipt.
That ain't necessarily so with Baldy. Last weekend, I put £50 on Falkirk with both Lads & Baldy. Both coupons said 4/9. Baldy paid 4/11.
Earlier that day, I tried to place £50 on West Brom with Baldy but was informed that the price had changed to 11/10.
When I asked the cashier why I hadn't been told of the price change, the duty manager said that they had had a message through during the afternoon, which said there had been a glitch in the system, and they had not been informed of the price change.
Banks , no there was no amendment made on my receipt for me to notice . The 11/8 was left on there. If it had been changed to 11/10 (regardless of whether i realised or not at the time) i know it would have been my fault . If he had changed it i would have rejected the bet and gone for the 5/4 next door ! Will look at thread thanks .
dixie , that west brom price is my bet too . is it a nationwide glitch they had or just your shop ? what time was it ?
DDuck
I left the shop & went to Lads for the 5/4. My bet at Lads was timed @
21/8/2010 12:07:19
I would have attempted to place the bet between 12:05 & 12:06. The West Brom price change was in the system then.
As for the 'glitch', I don't know. I would have placed my Falkirk bet at approx 12:20.
On the Sunday, when I asked the cashier why I hadn't been informed of the price change, she said; 'it must have changed after you placed your bet.' I said; 'don't be stupid'
and it was then the duty manager piped up about the glitch.
I wasn't going to kick up a fuss over £4 cos bookies are thin on the ground were I live, & I'd hate to get barred.
I left the shop & went to Lads for the 5/4. My bet at Lads was timed @
21/8/2010 12:07:19
I would have attempted to place the bet between 12:05 & 12:06. The West Brom price change was in the system then.
As for the 'glitch', I don't know. I would have placed my Falkirk bet at approx 12:20.
On the Sunday, when I asked the cashier why I hadn't been informed of the price change, she said; 'it must have changed after you placed your bet.' I said; 'don't be stupid'
and it was then the duty manager piped up about the glitch.
I wasn't going to kick up a fuss over £4 cos bookies are thin on the ground were I live, & I'd hate to get barred.
Banks, if you think your view is "objective" you must live in cloud cuckoo world.
My advice is correct, I have given clear evidence why, if the OP or anyone else wishes to follow it is up to them.
You seem to be living in a world which existed many years ago, and seem blissfully unaware that various laws have changed, and this has been done to protect the consumer.
Do you really think that if you walked into an electrical store where a TV was advertised for a price of £300, you bought it, and then found later that on your receipt that you had actually been debited £400, you could do nothing about it? And that if you walked back in to the store to complain, the manager would be able to just point out a sign on the wall which said "Prices are subject to fluctuation" and laugh at you, whilst pocketing the extra ton?
Yet this is effectively what has happened in this betting shop, and you think that nothing can be done legally, roflamo!
I know there has been a decline in the standard of education in recent years, but Jesus Christ, if you think that your "knowledge of gambling law" is worth a penny I'd see a shrink tbh. I'd stop spouting nonsense and keep quiet about a subject you blatantly know nothing about!
My advice is correct, I have given clear evidence why, if the OP or anyone else wishes to follow it is up to them.
You seem to be living in a world which existed many years ago, and seem blissfully unaware that various laws have changed, and this has been done to protect the consumer.
Do you really think that if you walked into an electrical store where a TV was advertised for a price of £300, you bought it, and then found later that on your receipt that you had actually been debited £400, you could do nothing about it? And that if you walked back in to the store to complain, the manager would be able to just point out a sign on the wall which said "Prices are subject to fluctuation" and laugh at you, whilst pocketing the extra ton?
Yet this is effectively what has happened in this betting shop, and you think that nothing can be done legally, roflamo!
I know there has been a decline in the standard of education in recent years, but Jesus Christ, if you think that your "knowledge of gambling law" is worth a penny I'd see a shrink tbh. I'd stop spouting nonsense and keep quiet about a subject you blatantly know nothing about!
'' On the Sunday, when I asked the cashier why I hadn't been informed of the price change, she said; 'it must have changed after you placed your bet.' '' [smiley:crazy]
I placed mine at 1.30 pm , apparently the price changed in the morning sometime .
stewarty b , log onto bookies computer system somehow to see the latest odds ?
I placed mine at 1.30 pm , apparently the price changed in the morning sometime .
stewarty b , log onto bookies computer system somehow to see the latest odds ?
Received this as an email reply :
'' The price at the time of acceptance was actually 11/10 and therefore the wager has been settled
correctly as stated in the Betfred rules.
When an ‘early morning price’ or ‘show price’ is requested by the customer, then the price at which your wager will be settled is the price written and verified on the slip by the shop staff. If the price written on the betting slip is not verified by the shop staff, your wager will be settled at the actual price at the time the bet was placed, whether that price is higher or lower than any price written upon the slip.
All prices are subject to fluctuation and, whilst every effort will be made to bring any price changes to the customer’s attention at the time of acceptance, we reserve the right to settle all wagers at the correct price at the time of acceptance.
As the price had already altered, and the price on the slip has not been verified, the wager must be settled at the price at the time of acceptance.
Should you wish to escalate your dispute, I would advise that you contact IBAS, who will adjudicate independantly on your behalf.
IBAS can be contacted on 0207 347 5883.
Thank you for contacting Betfred Customer Services. ''
looks like the end of the road for me...
'' The price at the time of acceptance was actually 11/10 and therefore the wager has been settled
correctly as stated in the Betfred rules.
When an ‘early morning price’ or ‘show price’ is requested by the customer, then the price at which your wager will be settled is the price written and verified on the slip by the shop staff. If the price written on the betting slip is not verified by the shop staff, your wager will be settled at the actual price at the time the bet was placed, whether that price is higher or lower than any price written upon the slip.
All prices are subject to fluctuation and, whilst every effort will be made to bring any price changes to the customer’s attention at the time of acceptance, we reserve the right to settle all wagers at the correct price at the time of acceptance.
As the price had already altered, and the price on the slip has not been verified, the wager must be settled at the price at the time of acceptance.
Should you wish to escalate your dispute, I would advise that you contact IBAS, who will adjudicate independantly on your behalf.
IBAS can be contacted on 0207 347 5883.
Thank you for contacting Betfred Customer Services. ''
looks like the end of the road for me...
DDuck, no, just don't give the bald one your buisness. Seems to me he can cut any price he 2wants, after the event.........
To me the key word in there is VERIFIED . I assume it means initials of the cashier but surely cannot necessarily equate to it can it ?
Just write the letter I advised, and do as I mentioned, ignoring anything Banks says.
And use a genuine bookmaker next time.
And use a genuine bookmaker next time.
dixie
That ain't necessarily so with Baldy. Last weekend, I put £50 on Falkirk with both Lads & Baldy. Both coupons said 4/9. Baldy paid 4/11.
i take it you used the 1 X 2 style list as opposed to the quickslip version?
That ain't necessarily so with Baldy. Last weekend, I put £50 on Falkirk with both Lads & Baldy. Both coupons said 4/9. Baldy paid 4/11.
i take it you used the 1 X 2 style list as opposed to the quickslip version?
I did use 12X coupon. There were no quickslips in the shop.
stewary b, £200 .
turtleshead , you suggest i file a small claims case online ?! don't they have a 'tiny' claims court ? lol
turtleshead , you suggest i file a small claims case online ?! don't they have a 'tiny' claims court ? lol
dixie Joined: 28 Dec 01
Replies: 484 30 Aug 10 17:52
I did use 12X coupon. There were no quickslips in the shop.
to be honest i'd be amazed under these circumstances if you did go the way of small claims they didnt pay out at 4/9. how could they argue their case when the price clearly shows 4/9 on the slip?
Replies: 484 30 Aug 10 17:52
I did use 12X coupon. There were no quickslips in the shop.
to be honest i'd be amazed under these circumstances if you did go the way of small claims they didnt pay out at 4/9. how could they argue their case when the price clearly shows 4/9 on the slip?
DDuck, again, write the letters that I suggested at the start, it probably won't have to go that far.
Feck going to the £4.04 claims court.
On Friday I went in looking for 10/11 on Caley. On request, the cashier checked the price & it was 4/5. The manager told him to print out new coupons, as they do that in store now.
There was no new coupon available with Caley @ 4/5.
On Friday I went in looking for 10/11 on Caley. On request, the cashier checked the price & it was 4/5. The manager told him to print out new coupons, as they do that in store now.
There was no new coupon available with Caley @ 4/5.
It will be interesting to see how this ends - Banks and turtleshead both staking their reputations on the outcome.
For a court to decide in favour od DDuck would be to say that a bookmaker cannot move an advertised price. Bookmakers would be scared of a judge giving such a ruling and may offer a discretionary payment to stop a case becoming a precedent - it would be a nightmare for the industry with all the arbers on here trying to shuffle coupon prices across the counter on plain slips - so DDuck has a chance if he makes a nuisance of himself.
What made you have £200 on West brom DD? Are you a fan?
For a court to decide in favour od DDuck would be to say that a bookmaker cannot move an advertised price. Bookmakers would be scared of a judge giving such a ruling and may offer a discretionary payment to stop a case becoming a precedent - it would be a nightmare for the industry with all the arbers on here trying to shuffle coupon prices across the counter on plain slips - so DDuck has a chance if he makes a nuisance of himself.
What made you have £200 on West brom DD? Are you a fan?
I totally disagree with turtleshead when it comes to Politics. He is far to left wing for me. However, I agree with every word he has written on this subject. They will pay you out if you follow his advice. It is irrelevant what will happen in Court. You will be paid out in full prior to it reaching this stage.
dodgy rog , not a fan no . always back newly-promoted teams in their first home game . Been very profitable for several seasons now .
monmore man , have you read the reply above which i received from their head of customer services ?
monmore man , have you read the reply above which i received from their head of customer services ?
"For a court to decide in favour of DDuck would be to say that a bookmaker cannot move an advertised price"
It would say no such thing! Of course bookmakers can change the price of their product, as can any other business. All it would do is to reaffirm that they have to make all possible efforts to ensure that current, accurate prices are displayed, and to convey this to the customer, the same as Tesco, Currys, or any other business....and that customers cannot be held liable or lose out finnancially for their failure to do so.
monmore man, erm, thanks for the vote of confidence on this subject , I'll make you into a left winger yet
It would say no such thing! Of course bookmakers can change the price of their product, as can any other business. All it would do is to reaffirm that they have to make all possible efforts to ensure that current, accurate prices are displayed, and to convey this to the customer, the same as Tesco, Currys, or any other business....and that customers cannot be held liable or lose out finnancially for their failure to do so.
monmore man, erm, thanks for the vote of confidence on this subject , I'll make you into a left winger yet
I've seen shops put up signs saying "no refunds"
You really think that a company can get around the law just by putting a sign up?
Shops are well within their rights not to offer any refunds, as long as it doesn't affect the consumer's statutory rights of course, i.e it is fit for purpose.
You really think that a company can get around the law just by putting a sign up?
Shops are well within their rights not to offer any refunds, as long as it doesn't affect the consumer's statutory rights of course, i.e it is fit for purpose.
Banks, if you think your view is "objective" you must live in cloud cuckoo world.
My advice is correct, I have given clear evidence why, if the OP or anyone else wishes to follow it is up to them.
You seem to be living in a world which existed many years ago, and seem blissfully unaware that various laws have changed, and this has been done to protect the consumer.
Do you really think that if you walked into an electrical store where a TV was advertised for a price of £300, you bought it, and then found later that on your receipt that you had actually been debited £400, you could do nothing about it? And that if you walked back in to the store to complain, the manager would be able to just point out a sign on the wall which said "Prices are subject to fluctuation" and laugh at you, whilst pocketing the extra ton?
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Yet this is effectively what has happened in this betting shop, and you think that nothing can be done legally, roflamo!
I know there has been a decline in the standard of education in recent years, but Jesus Christ, if you think that your "knowledge of gambling law" is worth a penny I'd see a shrink tbh. I'd stop spouting nonsense and keep quiet about a subject you blatantly know nothing about!
QED!
Turtleshead you just spout hard done by punter nonsense. You are like the bloke in the pub that thinks he is an expert on everything.
A little knowledge is often worse than no knowledge at all as you have aptly proven.
I have responded on a number of threads regarding gambling law as this is an area I am extremely well versed in however I have no need or desire to have to explain to you why this is the case.
I guarantee that my contacts in the betting, racing and legal world at senior levels are streets ahead of yours however you can of course choose to ignore what I say if it doesn`t suit your arguement.
You are of course free to disagree with my view as I am yours. This unfortunately is the problem with an anonymous forum as you have no way of knowing whether people really do know about things they comment on or not.
Are you qualified to give your views or are you the archetypal barrack room lawyer? I strongly suspect the latter.
My advice is correct, I have given clear evidence why, if the OP or anyone else wishes to follow it is up to them.
You seem to be living in a world which existed many years ago, and seem blissfully unaware that various laws have changed, and this has been done to protect the consumer.
Do you really think that if you walked into an electrical store where a TV was advertised for a price of £300, you bought it, and then found later that on your receipt that you had actually been debited £400, you could do nothing about it? And that if you walked back in to the store to complain, the manager would be able to just point out a sign on the wall which said "Prices are subject to fluctuation" and laugh at you, whilst pocketing the extra ton?
LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Yet this is effectively what has happened in this betting shop, and you think that nothing can be done legally, roflamo!
I know there has been a decline in the standard of education in recent years, but Jesus Christ, if you think that your "knowledge of gambling law" is worth a penny I'd see a shrink tbh. I'd stop spouting nonsense and keep quiet about a subject you blatantly know nothing about!
QED!
Turtleshead you just spout hard done by punter nonsense. You are like the bloke in the pub that thinks he is an expert on everything.
A little knowledge is often worse than no knowledge at all as you have aptly proven.
I have responded on a number of threads regarding gambling law as this is an area I am extremely well versed in however I have no need or desire to have to explain to you why this is the case.
I guarantee that my contacts in the betting, racing and legal world at senior levels are streets ahead of yours however you can of course choose to ignore what I say if it doesn`t suit your arguement.
You are of course free to disagree with my view as I am yours. This unfortunately is the problem with an anonymous forum as you have no way of knowing whether people really do know about things they comment on or not.
Are you qualified to give your views or are you the archetypal barrack room lawyer? I strongly suspect the latter.
I think what everyone is missing here is that you are at the mercy of which side of the bed the county court judge got out of that morning.
You can slant the odds in your favour but they literally are a law to themselves.
You can slant the odds in your favour but they literally are a law to themselves.
^^^^ clueless
So you won't tell everyone on this thread why you think you are qualified to give advice on this subject, but you still want me to!
Since you asked, no, I do not have a specific legal qualification, any more than you do. However, I am very well versed in consumer law, and have taken on various companies accordingly, all of which pointed to terms and conditions regarding a complaint I made, all of which were certain that they could do what they pleased, all of which backed down when they realized they were dealing with someone who knew their legal rights
Now stop pretending you know more than I do on this subject, because you don't. Simple as that.
So you won't tell everyone on this thread why you think you are qualified to give advice on this subject, but you still want me to!
Since you asked, no, I do not have a specific legal qualification, any more than you do. However, I am very well versed in consumer law, and have taken on various companies accordingly, all of which pointed to terms and conditions regarding a complaint I made, all of which were certain that they could do what they pleased, all of which backed down when they realized they were dealing with someone who knew their legal rights
Now stop pretending you know more than I do on this subject, because you don't. Simple as that.
I think what everyone is missing here is that you are at the mercy of which side of the bed the county court judge got out of that morning.
You can slant the odds in your favour but they literally are a law to themselves.
That is of course very true. There have been some incredible decisions made my county court judges regarding betting cases.
One fairly well reported case had a judge commenting that 5/4 and 4/1 were so similar that no reasonable person could be expected to know the difference between them.
If everyone on here were aware of the full facts as presented to the judge in that case I would hazard a guess that 100% would have found in favour of person A yet the judge incredibly found in favour of person B.
It is equally likley that there will be other remarkable outcomes until there is some solid case law developed.
You can slant the odds in your favour but they literally are a law to themselves.
That is of course very true. There have been some incredible decisions made my county court judges regarding betting cases.
One fairly well reported case had a judge commenting that 5/4 and 4/1 were so similar that no reasonable person could be expected to know the difference between them.
If everyone on here were aware of the full facts as presented to the judge in that case I would hazard a guess that 100% would have found in favour of person A yet the judge incredibly found in favour of person B.
It is equally likley that there will be other remarkable outcomes until there is some solid case law developed.
Well even if my venture fails at least we've managed to out a couple of legal experts for the forum's use 
.
For what it's worth i think it all hinges on the definition, in this context, of the word 'verified' as stated in their rules posted above.
.For what it's worth i think it all hinges on the definition, in this context, of the word 'verified' as stated in their rules posted above.
No one is disputing the price was 11/10 at the time you placed the bet, the cashier should of verified the price was correct but thats life **** happens.
So you lose £55 get paid £420 not £475. Move on, never understand people like turtlehead prepared to write numerous letters take their case to the european courts wasting hours and hours of countless peoples time on what they perceive as a matter of principle, the same people who trip up on the pavement and sue local authorities for negligence, no you are dopey and clumsy for falling over is my view, but everyone thinks differently about any given situation.
As for comparing a price on a football match to the price of a tv, im at a loss for words.
All too easy to blame counter staff for any errors, but if youre putting £200 on a bet make sure they verify the price next time. Not convinced you backed WBA as it was first home match for newly promoted teams, think you saw a nice arb so lumped on!
So you lose £55 get paid £420 not £475. Move on, never understand people like turtlehead prepared to write numerous letters take their case to the european courts wasting hours and hours of countless peoples time on what they perceive as a matter of principle, the same people who trip up on the pavement and sue local authorities for negligence, no you are dopey and clumsy for falling over is my view, but everyone thinks differently about any given situation.
As for comparing a price on a football match to the price of a tv, im at a loss for words.
All too easy to blame counter staff for any errors, but if youre putting £200 on a bet make sure they verify the price next time. Not convinced you backed WBA as it was first home match for newly promoted teams, think you saw a nice arb so lumped on!
Banks
As we've exchanged a few opinions on the topic via a few old threads I have the utmost respect for your obvious expertise on this matter , as you may remember i've represented both sides of the fence in court myself so am fairly knowledgeable on the subject.
Unfortunately i've ceased posting on these thread types as the majority of opening posters seem to be ill advised by fellow punters who just want to take the bookie bashing route instead of using the reasoned argument.
Good luck , and you have more patience than myself , but feel you'll be outnumbered by the less qualified crusaders of the forum.
As we've exchanged a few opinions on the topic via a few old threads I have the utmost respect for your obvious expertise on this matter , as you may remember i've represented both sides of the fence in court myself so am fairly knowledgeable on the subject.
Unfortunately i've ceased posting on these thread types as the majority of opening posters seem to be ill advised by fellow punters who just want to take the bookie bashing route instead of using the reasoned argument.
Good luck , and you have more patience than myself , but feel you'll be outnumbered by the less qualified crusaders of the forum.
what you should of done is ask them to TRANSLATE the price they do this by entering the team name in the system that will tell them the price at that time ok the numpty behind the counter should do that but they dont so its up to you as its your money
Hayden
I can fully understand why you have stopped posting on threads such as this.
It is a ridiculous state of affairs whereby you end up being criticized for giving informed,objective views about an issue that does not even affect you.
I could understand it if I was giving my opinion on behalf of the bookmaker on the other side of the bet however any info I give is from a completely neutral position.
If I had an issue about something I knew little or nothing about I would be appreciative of some informed assistance. If I just wanted the "popular" view I would ask the blokes in my local.
I`m afraid some people just don`t want to be helped.
I can fully understand why you have stopped posting on threads such as this.
It is a ridiculous state of affairs whereby you end up being criticized for giving informed,objective views about an issue that does not even affect you.
I could understand it if I was giving my opinion on behalf of the bookmaker on the other side of the bet however any info I give is from a completely neutral position.
If I had an issue about something I knew little or nothing about I would be appreciative of some informed assistance. If I just wanted the "popular" view I would ask the blokes in my local.
I`m afraid some people just don`t want to be helped.
The thing is Banks your view can never be substantiated because, by your own admission, these cases are unlikely to go to court.
So it is turtlehead who is giving the best practical advice here.
So it is turtlehead who is giving the best practical advice here.
ronaldinhoRAT , i know the main paragraph of your post wasn't aimed at me but i certainly am not from the 'where there's blame , there's a claim' boat - never quite understood someone can justify wanting thousands of pounds for a sprained ankle!
How am i to know it hasn't been 'verified' ? Their terms and conditions don't quite clarify what 'verified' means . I wasn't told it wasn't verified and wouldn't it be safe to assume any small town shop like the one in question WOULD have verified a sizaeable transaction o £200 before putting it through ?
I am no expert in these matters and appreciate your response.
With regards to the bet , I can't remeber the last time i have arbed (if ever!) . I would think the margins on arbing at that sort of price would probably mean i would have to put on more than £200 on to make it worthwhile though!
dukofpuke , how was i to know to ask them to TRANSLATE ? I admit i have actually never heard of that before
hayden , how do you suggest best to continue? if at all?
How am i to know it hasn't been 'verified' ? Their terms and conditions don't quite clarify what 'verified' means . I wasn't told it wasn't verified and wouldn't it be safe to assume any small town shop like the one in question WOULD have verified a sizaeable transaction o £200 before putting it through ?
I am no expert in these matters and appreciate your response.
With regards to the bet , I can't remeber the last time i have arbed (if ever!) . I would think the margins on arbing at that sort of price would probably mean i would have to put on more than £200 on to make it worthwhile though!
dukofpuke , how was i to know to ask them to TRANSLATE ? I admit i have actually never heard of that before
hayden , how do you suggest best to continue? if at all?
Obtaining payment and winning at court are 2 completely different things. Bookmakers and many other businesses for that matter often pay up without accepting liability before court due to costs and reputational issues. It doesn`t necessarily follow that they would have lost in court.I would hazard a gues that 90% plus of all employment cases that are settled before court would have been won by employers if they had actually reached court.
Based on the facts given ie you used a football coupon which had prices on it which their rules clearly state are subject to fluctuation I would suggest that it is your fault for accepting the receipt.
Having said that if you explain to customer services that you didn`t check the receipt and that the memeber of staff didn`t inform you of the price change as I assume they are supposed to then they will probably make a discretionary payment for the difference.
If they think it is a genuine mistake rather than you pulling a fast one then they might as well give you the difference to keep your custom.
swift-tuttle if you could even be bothered to read the thread you will see that I have clearly explained both the legal and the pragmatic solution. I realise that it is easier to shoot from the hip however a couple of minutes reading before spouting rubbish would be a great help to all concerned.
Punters are their own worst enemy as you ably prove.
Based on the facts given ie you used a football coupon which had prices on it which their rules clearly state are subject to fluctuation I would suggest that it is your fault for accepting the receipt.
Having said that if you explain to customer services that you didn`t check the receipt and that the memeber of staff didn`t inform you of the price change as I assume they are supposed to then they will probably make a discretionary payment for the difference.
If they think it is a genuine mistake rather than you pulling a fast one then they might as well give you the difference to keep your custom.
swift-tuttle if you could even be bothered to read the thread you will see that I have clearly explained both the legal and the pragmatic solution. I realise that it is easier to shoot from the hip however a couple of minutes reading before spouting rubbish would be a great help to all concerned.
Punters are their own worst enemy as you ably prove.
Punters are their own worst enemy as you ably prove.
What's that supposed to mean? If I was in the OP's position and opted for the practical solution of threatening to go to court, how would I be my own worst enemy?
What's that supposed to mean? If I was in the OP's position and opted for the practical solution of threatening to go to court, how would I be my own worst enemy?
DDuck 31 Aug 10 18:52
ronaldinhoRAT , i know the main paragraph of your post wasn't aimed at me
No gripe with you, you ask a fair question which you are rightly annoyed about
just get amused with posters who think every dispute in the shop should be settled in a court of law, which could take months even a year to be resolved, i just think move on, take the hit and learn from it.
As an aside i think you said earlier, if you knew the price you wouldnt of had the bet, so really in the great scheme of the universe youve had a result by winning £220?
Apologies for accusing you of arbing. gl and get staff to write the prices on [;)]
ronaldinhoRAT , i know the main paragraph of your post wasn't aimed at me
No gripe with you, you ask a fair question which you are rightly annoyed about
just get amused with posters who think every dispute in the shop should be settled in a court of law, which could take months even a year to be resolved, i just think move on, take the hit and learn from it.
As an aside i think you said earlier, if you knew the price you wouldnt of had the bet, so really in the great scheme of the universe youve had a result by winning £220?
Apologies for accusing you of arbing. gl and get staff to write the prices on [;)]
ronaldinhoRat , the last thing i want ot do is go to court too . Just want what's fair and proper and if it's against the bookies then why let them get away with it ?
I wouldn't have the bet with them at 11/10 - I would have gone with the 5/4 at ladbrokes a few doors away ! So in the grand scheme of things i've lost at least £30 because of staff incompetency / unclear rules / poor advertising ?
cheers and GL to you too
I wouldn't have the bet with them at 11/10 - I would have gone with the 5/4 at ladbrokes a few doors away ! So in the grand scheme of things i've lost at least £30 because of staff incompetency / unclear rules / poor advertising ?
cheers and GL to you too
I'll make this my last post on the subject, I have no wish to get drawn into a long debate with people who wrongly think they know the law better than I do.
RonaldinhoRat, you sound like the type of person who just accepts poor service because they don't like to make a fuss. I don't complain for the sake of it, far from it. Believe it or not, I have been known to write to companies in praise of their staff when I have experienced unexpectedly good service (as an example, I bought some sports drinks for my football team at a supermarket one week, when I did so again the following week, I got served by the same cashier, and she not only remembered me but asked how the team got on previously - this certainly deserved a complimentary letter to head office!) But equally so if I get poor service, I'll kick up a fuss, especially when companies think they can ignore the law and it costs me as a result. Yes, that may mean a threatening letter or even two! If you are too lazy to do that, more fool you! "Wasting hours of peoples time" - lmao, so I just accept poor standards from companies then? "Take the case to the european court" - wtf?? If everyone took your attitude, no company would improve it's procedures and everyone would suffer as a result!
Hayden, if your post about on this page refers to me (I believe it does, apologies if I'm wrong) I'm going to take it with a very large pinch of salt. Only a day or two ago I saw you make one of the most ludicrous comments I've ever witnessed on any forum here (and take it from me, that is quite some achievement!) when you claimed that on average, people here come out even from corrupt sporting events due to the fact that some go in their favour and some go against. A quite laughable post, ignoring the glaring point that where do the crooks get their ill gotten gains from the cheating, apparently if you are correct it is thin air! So your comments about being "ill advised" "bookie bashing" "less qualified" and finally, not "using the reasoned argument" (most laughably of all, I've given numerous reasons why the OP should fight it) mean diddly squat to be honest.
DDuck, I've given you several perfectly good reasons why you will get your money if you persue it, it's entirely up to you whether you want to continue or not. I would 100%, but that's me. It's your decision, and good luck for the future either way.
I'll leave it at that, other than to thank those who have backed up what I said.
RonaldinhoRat, you sound like the type of person who just accepts poor service because they don't like to make a fuss. I don't complain for the sake of it, far from it. Believe it or not, I have been known to write to companies in praise of their staff when I have experienced unexpectedly good service (as an example, I bought some sports drinks for my football team at a supermarket one week, when I did so again the following week, I got served by the same cashier, and she not only remembered me but asked how the team got on previously - this certainly deserved a complimentary letter to head office!) But equally so if I get poor service, I'll kick up a fuss, especially when companies think they can ignore the law and it costs me as a result. Yes, that may mean a threatening letter or even two! If you are too lazy to do that, more fool you! "Wasting hours of peoples time" - lmao, so I just accept poor standards from companies then? "Take the case to the european court" - wtf?? If everyone took your attitude, no company would improve it's procedures and everyone would suffer as a result!
Hayden, if your post about on this page refers to me (I believe it does, apologies if I'm wrong) I'm going to take it with a very large pinch of salt. Only a day or two ago I saw you make one of the most ludicrous comments I've ever witnessed on any forum here (and take it from me, that is quite some achievement!) when you claimed that on average, people here come out even from corrupt sporting events due to the fact that some go in their favour and some go against. A quite laughable post, ignoring the glaring point that where do the crooks get their ill gotten gains from the cheating, apparently if you are correct it is thin air! So your comments about being "ill advised" "bookie bashing" "less qualified" and finally, not "using the reasoned argument" (most laughably of all, I've given numerous reasons why the OP should fight it) mean diddly squat to be honest.
DDuck, I've given you several perfectly good reasons why you will get your money if you persue it, it's entirely up to you whether you want to continue or not. I would 100%, but that's me. It's your decision, and good luck for the future either way.
I'll leave it at that, other than to thank those who have backed up what I said.
If you'd have scrolled further down that thread the other day you'd have spotted my response was so tongue in cheek it's laughable , that's what smiley faces are for
As for this thread as stated i'm done with them , best of luck to the OP though and hope he gets paid
As for this thread as stated i'm done with them , best of luck to the OP though and hope he gets paid
turtleshead and all the others especially banks, united biscuits, swift tuttle, many thanks for the time and effort taken in your posts. Much appreciated .
I am yet to receive a reply from BFred following my reponse to their reply - the bulk of which i have posted above . Considering their initial reply was only after about an hour , i don't think they have any intention of getting back to me now thats it's been over 24 hours since my reply .
I now reckon i'll just send another email detailing my intent of sending out a letter and asking for an address to post it to . In the recorded-delivery sent letter I'll just mention the situation in full again and set a deadline of 7 days otherwise court proceedings will be initiated .
I have no experience with the courts/law so excuse my naivety but i reckon i may as well give it a crack and see how it goes . Just hope it hasn't cost me an extortionate amount when i come out the other side !
Either way , i will ttt this thread in approximately 7 days i guess.
I am yet to receive a reply from BFred following my reponse to their reply - the bulk of which i have posted above . Considering their initial reply was only after about an hour , i don't think they have any intention of getting back to me now thats it's been over 24 hours since my reply .
I now reckon i'll just send another email detailing my intent of sending out a letter and asking for an address to post it to . In the recorded-delivery sent letter I'll just mention the situation in full again and set a deadline of 7 days otherwise court proceedings will be initiated .
I have no experience with the courts/law so excuse my naivety but i reckon i may as well give it a crack and see how it goes . Just hope it hasn't cost me an extortionate amount when i come out the other side !
Either way , i will ttt this thread in approximately 7 days i guess.
i think you are in the wrong here Dduck, but nevertheless i'm sure you will be paid in full when you threaten them with court action.
turleshead you havent got a clue ,your a fool theres no way he will get payed ,i will bet you as much as you want you ,your a mug who gives bad advice.
no coupon price in any bookies is binding,says so on every coupon so theres your answer ,baldy is right so move on
surely the op has nothing to lose by threatening to go to court over this. however
th, it appears that you are quite agressive towards people who dont share your point of view. it also seems from what you have said that most of your experience is in getting companies to back down rather than take matters to court. you also seem to be assumeing that this is because they are sure that they would lose. look at it from the companies point of view. is it worth their while to a. spend money defending a case and b. running the risk (even if that risk my be only 10%) of not winning with all the negative publicity etc that would bring, for a small amount in comparison.
also th, if you are saying that the op should be paid you must also be saying that everyone who is given a lower price from the coupon should be paid at the coupon price. this must represent a massive risk for every single bookie, as they all do this. and i assume that they all have legal advisors. are you so sure that they are all wrong?
th, it appears that you are quite agressive towards people who dont share your point of view. it also seems from what you have said that most of your experience is in getting companies to back down rather than take matters to court. you also seem to be assumeing that this is because they are sure that they would lose. look at it from the companies point of view. is it worth their while to a. spend money defending a case and b. running the risk (even if that risk my be only 10%) of not winning with all the negative publicity etc that would bring, for a small amount in comparison.
also th, if you are saying that the op should be paid you must also be saying that everyone who is given a lower price from the coupon should be paid at the coupon price. this must represent a massive risk for every single bookie, as they all do this. and i assume that they all have legal advisors. are you so sure that they are all wrong?
DDuck 31 Aug 10 21:14
I would have gone with the 5/4 at ladbrokes a few doors away ! So in the grand scheme of things i've lost at least £30 because of staff incompetency / unclear rules / poor advertising ?
I do appreciate that you would of gone elsewhere, never the less a £200 bet by most peoples standards is quite alot (alot of betting shops can go a week without taking a £200 bet) if betting in these amounts you should be aware customers are not allowed to write their own prices on bets!
I agree a decent cashier should check the price but staff in betting shops can be hit or miss in terms of diligence and knowledge something someone betting £200 should also be aware of!
Maybe bet in £5/£10 till you get the hang of betting shop procedures.
I would have gone with the 5/4 at ladbrokes a few doors away ! So in the grand scheme of things i've lost at least £30 because of staff incompetency / unclear rules / poor advertising ?
I do appreciate that you would of gone elsewhere, never the less a £200 bet by most peoples standards is quite alot (alot of betting shops can go a week without taking a £200 bet) if betting in these amounts you should be aware customers are not allowed to write their own prices on bets!
I agree a decent cashier should check the price but staff in betting shops can be hit or miss in terms of diligence and knowledge something someone betting £200 should also be aware of!
Maybe bet in £5/£10 till you get the hang of betting shop procedures.
Small claims court without wasting too much further time imo. They'll pay up rather than try to defend.
Displayed prices are not legally binding. This is true even for a price on a television set in an electrical store.
It's a principle of Contract Law called "invitation to treat"
Google it if you have to :)
It's a principle of Contract Law called "invitation to treat"
Google it if you have to :)
I don't think they bother that much anymore as price changes on coupons
are flagged up on the tills as the bet is put on ,
but somehow I think Donald knows this.
are flagged up on the tills as the bet is put on ,
but somehow I think Donald knows this.
Its not so much that displayed prices aren't legally binding, its that the contract is formed by the punter writing out the bet/filling in the coupon and the bookie 'accepting' the slip ie the point at which they bind is shifted. Really youve got a debate over whether the punter has accepted the 'revised' terms of the contract put forward by the bookie ie the change to the price (battle of the forms). On a basic level im sure the bookie would argue that their terms were available for the punter to see and so when they took the cash the punter was 'aware'/should have been aware that the bookie was accepting the offer of the contract/the punter was accepting the revised offer but with the price not set in stone. Lot of it is a splitting hairs exercise mind.
According to the bm 's terms and conditions they are justified in paying out at the lesser price.
The legal question is whether their terms and conditions violate the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract legislation as stipulated by the Gambling Act. In this case, that will turn on whether the shop's actions in striking a bet contract with the OP were 'fair and transparent'. Provided that the coupon notified bettors of potential odds changes, the bet contract as defined by the bookie is likely to be understood as fair so long as the bettor did not ask for confirmation of his bet terms / prices as noted on his slip.
The legal question is whether their terms and conditions violate the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract legislation as stipulated by the Gambling Act. In this case, that will turn on whether the shop's actions in striking a bet contract with the OP were 'fair and transparent'. Provided that the coupon notified bettors of potential odds changes, the bet contract as defined by the bookie is likely to be understood as fair so long as the bettor did not ask for confirmation of his bet terms / prices as noted on his slip.
I do not think the OP has much of a case, but he shd ask for a discretionary payment if he is on balance a loser, not an arber or price-sensitive winning price-taker.
I would pursue it and find out for yourself if it pays off, take TH advice and if it doees not work you have lost nothing. I always wonder in this case if they would tell you about a price change in the other direction? I doubt it very much and suspect they would conviently forget and once again weighted all in their favour.
like a few have said, you'll get paid out if you threaten then with a small claims court
paddy power tried to pull my pants down on a reciept(or 3) that acutally had the amount i would be paid out at the bottom by saying the prices had changed arf! try updating your system instead of trying to rob people you daft f.cukers.
paddy power tried to pull my pants down on a reciept(or 3) that acutally had the amount i would be paid out at the bottom by saying the prices had changed arf! try updating your system instead of trying to rob people you daft f.cukers.
Firstly, thanks for having a little dig at me Banks earlier in the thread, very kind.
A couple of points id like to add.
1. Case Law/Precedent etc etc. This can not be made in a small claims court. It would have to go to a Mercantile court or above. District judge Smith can rule one thing in one court and you can take the same company to court with a exact same claim (Not THE same claim) a DJ Jones may rule the other but you can not introduce DJ Smiths ruling.
2. While its been said regarding they don't go to court due to costs, this is true BUT also incorrect. I cannot name the situation or anything as I agreed a confidentiality clause (For a fee :) ) in a ruling I got at Leeds Mercantile Court. It was a similar claim to alot that have been argued on here. The value of my claim was over 5k so I would be liable for costs if I lost and it was agreed to go to Mercantile Court. The bookmaker employed a contract barrister (I googgled him, he sounded scary) and part of the procedure is you have to disclose costs. Their costs were estimated at 12k. So I had 17k on the line but I thought come on then, lets get it on. The day before I got their final costings and it was 12,365. BUGGER, I was betting some on here. At the court, the Barrister in all his regalia came up to me and said along the lines of, look sir, you haven't a chance Im this your that if you pack in now, we will just ask for cost of 1700 which were his basic fees. I said thanks but no thanks. He went away, came back 5 mins later and agreed to settle for the full claim plus my costs (Only 400 but hey) but he wanted me to sign a confidentiality clause. I said fine, but theirs a cost. I got another 750 out of the firm to agree to not disclose the nature of the claim not the company involved.
IF we had gone into that court room and I had won, my case would have become Case Law so I wonder why the big U Turn?
3. When you write to a company, please dont put the date, place, time you will see them there as you only get that when the case is allocated a trial so you would look a bit ignorant of CPR
A couple of points id like to add.
1. Case Law/Precedent etc etc. This can not be made in a small claims court. It would have to go to a Mercantile court or above. District judge Smith can rule one thing in one court and you can take the same company to court with a exact same claim (Not THE same claim) a DJ Jones may rule the other but you can not introduce DJ Smiths ruling.
2. While its been said regarding they don't go to court due to costs, this is true BUT also incorrect. I cannot name the situation or anything as I agreed a confidentiality clause (For a fee :) ) in a ruling I got at Leeds Mercantile Court. It was a similar claim to alot that have been argued on here. The value of my claim was over 5k so I would be liable for costs if I lost and it was agreed to go to Mercantile Court. The bookmaker employed a contract barrister (I googgled him, he sounded scary) and part of the procedure is you have to disclose costs. Their costs were estimated at 12k. So I had 17k on the line but I thought come on then, lets get it on. The day before I got their final costings and it was 12,365. BUGGER, I was betting some on here. At the court, the Barrister in all his regalia came up to me and said along the lines of, look sir, you haven't a chance Im this your that if you pack in now, we will just ask for cost of 1700 which were his basic fees. I said thanks but no thanks. He went away, came back 5 mins later and agreed to settle for the full claim plus my costs (Only 400 but hey) but he wanted me to sign a confidentiality clause. I said fine, but theirs a cost. I got another 750 out of the firm to agree to not disclose the nature of the claim not the company involved.
IF we had gone into that court room and I had won, my case would have become Case Law so I wonder why the big U Turn?
3. When you write to a company, please dont put the date, place, time you will see them there as you only get that when the case is allocated a trial so you would look a bit ignorant of CPR
Sorry, Im signed in on my wifes account DUH. Its LLM
LLM exceptions will always arise. I do not doubt your story however I am not sure that I agree with your conclusions regarding the reason behind settling pre case.
Bookmakers make numerous decision based on commercial pressures. Whilst these are often simple financial pressures they can also be reputational concerns.
Bookmakers are considered by many sections of society to be one step up from kiddy fiddlers therefore they are acutely aware that the media will play on this perception and that the reputational cost to their brand following biased reporting of a court case may end up being disproportionately large. This is probably the punters biggets weapon and the bookmakers know it too.
I have seen many cases that have been poorly reported. It has been that way for years. I recall an episode of "That`s Life" about 20 years ago where they had a huge piece on prime time TV regarding the 90 minute rule. They were ridiculing bookmakers and basically calling them cheats because they didn`t pay out an England ET win to the punters who had backed the 90 minute result. It was a ridiculous, biased and uniformed piece yet loads of people who knew nothing about betting took it as read.
Bookmakers make numerous decision based on commercial pressures. Whilst these are often simple financial pressures they can also be reputational concerns.
Bookmakers are considered by many sections of society to be one step up from kiddy fiddlers therefore they are acutely aware that the media will play on this perception and that the reputational cost to their brand following biased reporting of a court case may end up being disproportionately large. This is probably the punters biggets weapon and the bookmakers know it too.
I have seen many cases that have been poorly reported. It has been that way for years. I recall an episode of "That`s Life" about 20 years ago where they had a huge piece on prime time TV regarding the 90 minute rule. They were ridiculing bookmakers and basically calling them cheats because they didn`t pay out an England ET win to the punters who had backed the 90 minute result. It was a ridiculous, biased and uniformed piece yet loads of people who knew nothing about betting took it as read.
On Saturday, I went to Lads. I looked on the screen for the Kidderminster price. It was 6/4.
I wrote out;
£100 Kidderminster to beat Altrincham
6/4
I showed the cashier the price on the screen & asked him to initial it. He did so & also sent the bet to BAC for verification. The bet was accepted.
I went in this morning, & I was offered £225. The guy who initialled the bet agreed with me that it was 6/4. Their EPOS showed it be BAC verified at 6/4, so they did give £250 despite my receipt showing £225
I wrote out;
£100 Kidderminster to beat Altrincham
6/4
I showed the cashier the price on the screen & asked him to initial it. He did so & also sent the bet to BAC for verification. The bet was accepted.
I went in this morning, & I was offered £225. The guy who initialled the bet agreed with me that it was 6/4. Their EPOS showed it be BAC verified at 6/4, so they did give £250 despite my receipt showing £225
Just a quick update , posted the letter off today as the guy i was emailing was off on leave all last week and only got round to speaking to him yesterday . As well as giving me the Area Manager's name and contact address he said that their terms and conditions state i will have to go to IBAS first regardlesss of whether i go to the small claims court !
Received a phone call from the area manager today who acknowledged receiving my two-page letter and began by apologising to me as the cashier 'hadn't done his job by checking the price'.
He then offered me a £50 voucher as a goodwill gesture. After questioning him, he confirmed there would be no minimium odds and the £50 stake would be returned in any winnings. I said no thanks as it was not cash and it was still £5 short.
He then immediately withdrew the offer saying he didn't have to make that offer and i was free to proceed however i wanted. I said i have a claim form from the court filled out and ready to be posted. This riled him somewhat and after explaining to me how looking after 56 shops leaves him little time to bother with these sortof things he said how i was being very pedantic and should have taken the offer he made me.
After a few seconds of thinking i wasn't sure i had the time or patience of court proceedings (i work full-time) and said to him you can post the voucher out to me. He then agreed to do that even though he said the offer had been withdrawn earlier on...
Not sure who has won to be honest as i do i do feel i have given in somewhat but i guess if i find a 1/100 shot i will receive over 90% of the the payout i would have got had i won in court and £50 more than what i would have got had i not sent the letter.
Many thanks for the advice on here to you all esp. you turtleshead.
Now where's Money Tree for the 1/100 shot i need ?
He then offered me a £50 voucher as a goodwill gesture. After questioning him, he confirmed there would be no minimium odds and the £50 stake would be returned in any winnings. I said no thanks as it was not cash and it was still £5 short.
He then immediately withdrew the offer saying he didn't have to make that offer and i was free to proceed however i wanted. I said i have a claim form from the court filled out and ready to be posted. This riled him somewhat and after explaining to me how looking after 56 shops leaves him little time to bother with these sortof things he said how i was being very pedantic and should have taken the offer he made me.
After a few seconds of thinking i wasn't sure i had the time or patience of court proceedings (i work full-time) and said to him you can post the voucher out to me. He then agreed to do that even though he said the offer had been withdrawn earlier on...
Not sure who has won to be honest as i do i do feel i have given in somewhat but i guess if i find a 1/100 shot i will receive over 90% of the the payout i would have got had i won in court and £50 more than what i would have got had i not sent the letter.
Many thanks for the advice on here to you all esp. you turtleshead.
Now where's Money Tree for the 1/100 shot i need ?
Well done. You are welcome, anytime you want some advice I'll be on the football forum, leave a message on "THE ARSENAL CHATTER - GENUINE ONE" 
The moral of the story being, stand up for yourself when taking on big companies, don't let them walk over you
The moral of the story being, stand up for yourself when taking on big companies, don't let them walk over you
The moral of the story being, stand up for yourself when taking on big companies, don't let them walk over you Happy
Nonsense. The moral is that they will give you whatever you want as long as you are a mug punter.
So much childish views written on here it is cringeworthy.
Nonsense. The moral is that they will give you whatever you want as long as you are a mug punter.
So much childish views written on here it is cringeworthy.
Hi Banks, must admit you did say in one of the first few posts i would be offered a discretionary payment which is what has happened. However, i certainly wouldn't have been given this had i not threatened legal action as Turtleshead suggested.
Call it a score draw between you two !
How have you deduced i am a mug punter ?
Call it a score draw between you two !
How have you deduced i am a mug punter ?
How have you deduced i am a mug punter ?
Probably a poor use of words. Perhaps would have been better to say not an unprofitable customer which cover probably 95% of punters.
The point being that as long as they value your custom they will make a discretionary payment even if you are in the wrong. Pointless losing a long term customer over £50.
If you go about it in the right way you will pretty much always get paid. Many of the amateur lawyers on here are very misguided and come from the "victim punter" point of view which is seriously over represented on here.
Sort the wheat from the chaff and there is good advice to be had.
As for accepting a score draw I suppose I have to reluctantly agree to that and accept it as a travesty of a result!
Spend the voucher on the biggest mug bet that you can find and lay it off on here. Anything you can do to make them think you are a crap punter can only help in the long run.
Probably a poor use of words. Perhaps would have been better to say not an unprofitable customer which cover probably 95% of punters.
The point being that as long as they value your custom they will make a discretionary payment even if you are in the wrong. Pointless losing a long term customer over £50.
If you go about it in the right way you will pretty much always get paid. Many of the amateur lawyers on here are very misguided and come from the "victim punter" point of view which is seriously over represented on here.
Sort the wheat from the chaff and there is good advice to be had.
As for accepting a score draw I suppose I have to reluctantly agree to that and accept it as a travesty of a result!
Spend the voucher on the biggest mug bet that you can find and lay it off on here. Anything you can do to make them think you are a crap punter can only help in the long run.
From their point of view i don't think they could categorize me as an unprofitable customer to be honest. As it is I very rarely bet there anyway.
If it was a case of them desperately wanting to keep my custom it could have easily been settled after the first or second email or after the subsequent phone calls i would have thought.
I appreciate you feel many punters pointlessly fight with bookies whilst in the wrong themselves but isn't it saddening to think many punters will genuinely have lost out on their money by giving up after being told to 'leave it' at the initial email/phonecall of complaint stage, in cases much more clear cut than mine ?
If it was a case of them desperately wanting to keep my custom it could have easily been settled after the first or second email or after the subsequent phone calls i would have thought.
I appreciate you feel many punters pointlessly fight with bookies whilst in the wrong themselves but isn't it saddening to think many punters will genuinely have lost out on their money by giving up after being told to 'leave it' at the initial email/phonecall of complaint stage, in cases much more clear cut than mine ?
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