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When they don't honour them.
Put a bet on @ Hills today, coupon price 9/5, was in a mad rush and didnt check the price on the receipt I was given. Just looked now and I'm on at 6/4, they didnt even have the courtesy to tell me they were laying me a different price. Pathetic
Put a bet on @ Hills today, coupon price 9/5, was in a mad rush and didnt check the price on the receipt I was given. Just looked now and I'm on at 6/4, they didnt even have the courtesy to tell me they were laying me a different price. Pathetic
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It's fair to expect a coupon IN THEIR SHOP to be displaying the correct price AT THE TIME YOU PICK IT UP surely?
Do you expect them to lay the horse prices in the RP they provide in their shop too?
Once the old rule of minimum trebles for aways/draws and 5 timers for homes was removed it was inevitable that there would be loads of price changes. Add in the opportunity to lay on here and it is no wonder that so many need to be changed.
Do you expect them to lay the horse prices in the RP they provide in their shop too?
Once the old rule of minimum trebles for aways/draws and 5 timers for homes was removed it was inevitable that there would be loads of price changes. Add in the opportunity to lay on here and it is no wonder that so many need to be changed.
Not disagreeing with the price changes, and though it is my opinion that too many piddling changes are made, it is a firm's right to be comfortable with the prices they are laying.
What I am saying is that continuing to advertise incorrect prices IN THEIR SHOP AT THE TIME is at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest.
What I am saying is that continuing to advertise incorrect prices IN THEIR SHOP AT THE TIME is at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest.
DaveEdwards' analogy of the supermarket is interesting.
Consider this, A supermarket reduces the price of something. It is a limited offer and subject to availability the same as the bookmakers' coupon. A customer, not realising that the price is no longer available puts in her basket and goes through the checkout. At home she checks her slip and sees the error. She complains that she feels that has been deceived and asks to return the goods and get her money back. I believe that any responsible customer services department would accede to her request at the very least. I don't think she would be told it was her fault even though it may have been.
My question is, if Soccergez feels aggrieved does he have the opportunity to cancel the bet before the event? If anyone feels that they can't reply without personal abuse, please don't. I cannot understand why Soccergez simple question has produced such hostility.
Consider this, A supermarket reduces the price of something. It is a limited offer and subject to availability the same as the bookmakers' coupon. A customer, not realising that the price is no longer available puts in her basket and goes through the checkout. At home she checks her slip and sees the error. She complains that she feels that has been deceived and asks to return the goods and get her money back. I believe that any responsible customer services department would accede to her request at the very least. I don't think she would be told it was her fault even though it may have been.
My question is, if Soccergez feels aggrieved does he have the opportunity to cancel the bet before the event? If anyone feels that they can't reply without personal abuse, please don't. I cannot understand why Soccergez simple question has produced such hostility.
theresbeenagoal 22 Jul 10 10:36
What I am saying is that continuing to advertise incorrect prices IN THEIR SHOP AT THE TIME is at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest.
Completely impractical to expect all prices to be correct, the alternative being to remove coupons from shops?
Ideally the technology would be there to inform staff of any price changes when processing the bet but it isnt, so the onus is on the customer to check.
Just consider a customer having 10 selections with the staff cross referencing with the coupon to check prices with a queue of 5 customers trying to get there dog bets on!
Any given weekend there would be 150+ matches and you expect a saturday only cashier to know the price on HJK Helsinki has move from 5/4 to 11/10, a little unrealistic im sure you'll agree
Not having a go at you, you seem a little fair handed by mentioning shops are short staffed in your previous post
What I am saying is that continuing to advertise incorrect prices IN THEIR SHOP AT THE TIME is at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest.
Completely impractical to expect all prices to be correct, the alternative being to remove coupons from shops?
Ideally the technology would be there to inform staff of any price changes when processing the bet but it isnt, so the onus is on the customer to check.
Just consider a customer having 10 selections with the staff cross referencing with the coupon to check prices with a queue of 5 customers trying to get there dog bets on!
Any given weekend there would be 150+ matches and you expect a saturday only cashier to know the price on HJK Helsinki has move from 5/4 to 11/10, a little unrealistic im sure you'll agree
Not having a go at you, you seem a little fair handed by mentioning shops are short staffed in your previous post
What I am saying is that continuing to advertise incorrect prices IN THEIR SHOP AT THE TIME is at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest.
Is leaving a copy of the RP in shop with outdated prices also "poor customer service or dishonest"?
Is leaving a copy of the RP in shop with outdated prices also "poor customer service or dishonest"?
Banks They Rules Was Nothing Short Than Murder Those Years Ago
Poor Customer Service Thats The Managers Job To Inform The Public But Do They
To Much Like Hard Work For Some Of The Tits That Work Behind The Wire
Poor Customer Service Thats The Managers Job To Inform The Public But Do They
To Much Like Hard Work For Some Of The Tits That Work Behind The Wire
If and when I want a bet in a betting shop, usually football, I ask the counter assistant for the price. If the price is acceptable I bet, if it is not, I say '' Thank you but no thank you'' and leave the shop. You will never have a problem doing that. Punters create
their own problems by assuming they are on at the price, even if it
is not confirmed. That is their mistake.
their own problems by assuming they are on at the price, even if it
is not confirmed. That is their mistake.
Banks They Rules Was Nothing Short Than Murder Those Years Ago
It wasn`t the bookmakers who imposed the 5 fold/treble rule.
It wasn`t the bookmakers who imposed the 5 fold/treble rule.
sevey 22 Jul 10 10:56
Poor Customer Service Thats The Managers Job To Inform The Public But Do They
To Much Like Hard Work For Some Of The Tits That Work Behind The Wire
Do You Not feEl tHat Is a litTle Unrealistic
Poor Customer Service Thats The Managers Job To Inform The Public But Do They
To Much Like Hard Work For Some Of The Tits That Work Behind The Wire
Do You Not feEl tHat Is a litTle Unrealistic
This thread has just reminded me of a coupon I had in my bedside table.
I went into a Hills opposite the pub just before Argentina and put 2 quid on Draw HT Argentina FT, i can't remember what odds were advertised but this is what the guy behind the counter wrote down:
tiny.cc/8djjz
The bet won but I haven't even cashed it in yet. I wouldn't have placed it at those odds but of course it's my own fault for not checking. But what is that thing circling the 3? I don't really use bookies.
I went into a Hills opposite the pub just before Argentina and put 2 quid on Draw HT Argentina FT, i can't remember what odds were advertised but this is what the guy behind the counter wrote down:
tiny.cc/8djjz
The bet won but I haven't even cashed it in yet. I wouldn't have placed it at those odds but of course it's my own fault for not checking. But what is that thing circling the 3? I don't really use bookies.
What's wrong with asking the counter clerk if the price you have
written on your slip is correct ? It would avoid a lot of problems.
written on your slip is correct ? It would avoid a lot of problems.
nothing, i was drunk and didn't even write a price on the coupon, the cashier did.
Banks, the prices in the post are those on the internet anyway. I am not talking about stale prices advertised in a 3rd party environmentt anyway, I am talking about live prices in the shop.
RonaldinhoRat, I beieve something was in development a few years back which printed a current coupon in shop with the correct prices on request. Perhaps this would alleviate the 'impracticality' of changing coupon prices? Or does it cost too much? Either way, the very fact that a shop can display incorrect prices in shop is wrong.
The earlier example of a supermarket offer changing is very pertinent as their price labelling and offer changing is an ongoing process. If every time you went to the counter with a an advertised crate of beer for a fiver and they tried to charge you a tenner for it you'd be almightily peeved.
BTW I always ask for prices to be confirmed in a shop as I know the script. However it is surely less pratical than the manager finding the time to change the coupon(s) - imagine the Tote, Hills or Ladbrokes on County Road, Liverpool at 20 to 3, the Betfred on Breck Road, Anfield, the Ladbrokes kiosk inside Anfield, etc.
RonaldinhoRat, I beieve something was in development a few years back which printed a current coupon in shop with the correct prices on request. Perhaps this would alleviate the 'impracticality' of changing coupon prices? Or does it cost too much? Either way, the very fact that a shop can display incorrect prices in shop is wrong.
The earlier example of a supermarket offer changing is very pertinent as their price labelling and offer changing is an ongoing process. If every time you went to the counter with a an advertised crate of beer for a fiver and they tried to charge you a tenner for it you'd be almightily peeved.
BTW I always ask for prices to be confirmed in a shop as I know the script. However it is surely less pratical than the manager finding the time to change the coupon(s) - imagine the Tote, Hills or Ladbrokes on County Road, Liverpool at 20 to 3, the Betfred on Breck Road, Anfield, the Ladbrokes kiosk inside Anfield, etc.
soccergeez
hammarby lost anyway [;)][;)][;)]
hammarby lost anyway [;)][;)][;)]
the point is the coupons are automated now anyway. the system will prompt the cashier that there has been a price change and gives the option to continue or cancel.
the cashier was obviously too lazy to do his job and tell you.
kenilworth is being pedantic and argumentative as usual.
the cashier was obviously too lazy to do his job and tell you.
kenilworth is being pedantic and argumentative as usual.
kenilworth Joined: 04 Nov 05
Replies: 2707 21 Jul 10 20:56
jason, you are wrong. Any sensible punter would check that the
price he wants is still available, or do you expect staff to check
every price on every ticket ? Get real.
no we don;t expect them to check. they don't have to the computer does it for them automatically so there is no excuse for them not informing the customer besides being lazy
Replies: 2707 21 Jul 10 20:56
jason, you are wrong. Any sensible punter would check that the
price he wants is still available, or do you expect staff to check
every price on every ticket ? Get real.
no we don;t expect them to check. they don't have to the computer does it for them automatically so there is no excuse for them not informing the customer besides being lazy
jasonk178. Joined: 03 May 01
Replies: 129 22 Jul 10 18:25
well said,kenilworth is a pr1ck
Pot, kettle and black come to mind!
Replies: 129 22 Jul 10 18:25
well said,kenilworth is a pr1ck
Pot, kettle and black come to mind!
The supermarket analogy was only meant to highlight this issue of staff being aware of a price change. I'm talking about the average shelf stacker, not the person responsible for addressing any price change issues with the shop.
The bottom line is that this isn't an issue worth getting worked up about. The betting offices clearly state that the prices are subject to change. The impracticality of writing over the prices just wouldn't work of course. Maybe as a way forward betting shops could display a football price change ticker message running along the bottom of the screen of one of their advert pages.
For what it is worth there are a few people whose opinion I would consider when reading these boards. Kenilworth is one of those people.
The bottom line is that this isn't an issue worth getting worked up about. The betting offices clearly state that the prices are subject to change. The impracticality of writing over the prices just wouldn't work of course. Maybe as a way forward betting shops could display a football price change ticker message running along the bottom of the screen of one of their advert pages.
For what it is worth there are a few people whose opinion I would consider when reading these boards. Kenilworth is one of those people.
kenilworth is worth reading.
he's got the social graces of a chimp though
he's got the social graces of a chimp though
he's straight to the point sometimes, but you always get his drift.
Just wondering. What does your name mean I've got???
Just wondering. What does your name mean I've got???
didcot, I'm only argumentitive with ignorance and stupidity.
Kenilworth, I'd agree with the earlier post that you are often worth listening to, but you are wrong on this one. It isn't just arber 'a' or value punter 'b' who is facing (deliberately?) incorrect prices, it is Joe Public having their tenner trebles.
In most cases I'd suggest the first two will get their bets cancelled in advance when they realise they're not on at the price while the last named will be paid under the odds for their 3 4/5 shots that has turned into 2 4/5 shots and a 4/6. Sadly this type probably won't realise until payout, if then.
It is the 'if then' that is relevant to my earlier phrase 'at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest'.
In most cases I'd suggest the first two will get their bets cancelled in advance when they realise they're not on at the price while the last named will be paid under the odds for their 3 4/5 shots that has turned into 2 4/5 shots and a 4/6. Sadly this type probably won't realise until payout, if then.
It is the 'if then' that is relevant to my earlier phrase 'at best poor customer service and at worst dishonest'.
I beieve something was in development a few years back which printed a current coupon in shop with the correct prices on request
It would be trivial task to set up a terminal to print out current prices on request and have prices valid for next hour or so wouldnt it?
It seems to me the shops like it the way it is as the errors are in their favour.
It would be trivial task to set up a terminal to print out current prices on request and have prices valid for next hour or so wouldnt it?
It seems to me the shops like it the way it is as the errors are in their favour.
Banks 22 Jul 10 11:01
Banks They Rules Was Nothing Short Than Murder Those Years Ago
It wasn`t the bookmakers who imposed the 5 fold/treble rule.
Who then, and why?
Banks They Rules Was Nothing Short Than Murder Those Years Ago
It wasn`t the bookmakers who imposed the 5 fold/treble rule.
Who then, and why?
The FA due to earlier scandals. Used to be maximum 5 draws as well so's not to impact on the pools.
You Could Have A Double At The Horses But Not A Home Team Double
Say Wolves/Bristol City Min 5 Home Teams ROBBERY How Times Have Changed
Say Wolves/Bristol City Min 5 Home Teams ROBBERY How Times Have Changed
theresbeenagoal
It's fair to expect a coupon IN THEIR SHOP to be displaying the correct price AT THE TIME YOU PICK IT UP surely?
Completely unrealistic. Coupons are printed up to a week before matches are played and some prices may have changed before going on display I imagine. To do what you want would require a coupon printing machine on hand in every shop of the particular chain, all ready to pump out coupons at request. lol.
As I said earlier, what's wrong with Joe Punter confirming prices on his tenner treble with the counter staff ? This argument reminds me of a football match where every player on the field is trying to cheat the ref and when one is successful, the arbiter gets the blame for a poor decision.
It's fair to expect a coupon IN THEIR SHOP to be displaying the correct price AT THE TIME YOU PICK IT UP surely?
Completely unrealistic. Coupons are printed up to a week before matches are played and some prices may have changed before going on display I imagine. To do what you want would require a coupon printing machine on hand in every shop of the particular chain, all ready to pump out coupons at request. lol.
As I said earlier, what's wrong with Joe Punter confirming prices on his tenner treble with the counter staff ? This argument reminds me of a football match where every player on the field is trying to cheat the ref and when one is successful, the arbiter gets the blame for a poor decision.
It seems to me the shops like it the way it is as the errors are in their favour.
Surely if one team is cut the other will go out to a bigger price?
Surely if one team is cut the other will go out to a bigger price?
Any business that had any respect for its customers would ensure that the correct prices were given at all times. The fact that bookies allow the present situation to continue shows two things; first it benefits them, second the contempt they have for their customers. Nothing will change so its Buyer Beware.
The fact that bookies allow the present situation to continue shows two things; first it benefits them, second the contempt they have for their customers.
How about a 3rd option? The only reason bookmakers put prices on coupons is because punters are dinosaurs and still expect this to be done despite the fact that the removal of the 5 folds/trebles rule plus the advent of exchanges has meant that there will inevitably be loads of price changes.
Do you expect a fixed odds racing coupon? A fixed odds cricket coupon?
You accept that you will get all the prices for every single other sport from the screens/info finding terminals yet for football this doesn`t seem acceptable. Nowt as strange as folk.
How about a 3rd option? The only reason bookmakers put prices on coupons is because punters are dinosaurs and still expect this to be done despite the fact that the removal of the 5 folds/trebles rule plus the advent of exchanges has meant that there will inevitably be loads of price changes.
Do you expect a fixed odds racing coupon? A fixed odds cricket coupon?
You accept that you will get all the prices for every single other sport from the screens/info finding terminals yet for football this doesn`t seem acceptable. Nowt as strange as folk.
What a bizarre post. Bookies print coupons because they want to encourage accumulators.
Kenilworth, last post on the subject as I'm going round in circles. Price change, Friday 4pm, Dundee Utd v St Mirren now 8/13 12/5 9/2 (I know, highly unrealistic a betting shop working to 111% but bear with me), Crawley v Oxford now 8/11 9/4 10/3. How hard is it for a member of shop staff to go out and change all the coupons in the shop?
The answer is, not very. The firms do not have the volition to ensure that this simple task is completed (shops are under resourced and staff under-trained/ incapable).
I don't know what you're lol-ing about having a printer in each shop to print out a coupon on request either as I believe this was in development/ under test a few years back. It costs a pretty penny to out-source printing coupons in the first place, as you probably know.
Again, firms have every right to make coupon changes, they have to be comfortable in the prices they trade, but it is wrong that the prices they trade are often advertised incorrectly by their representatives.
The answer is, not very. The firms do not have the volition to ensure that this simple task is completed (shops are under resourced and staff under-trained/ incapable).
I don't know what you're lol-ing about having a printer in each shop to print out a coupon on request either as I believe this was in development/ under test a few years back. It costs a pretty penny to out-source printing coupons in the first place, as you probably know.
Again, firms have every right to make coupon changes, they have to be comfortable in the prices they trade, but it is wrong that the prices they trade are often advertised incorrectly by their representatives.
What a bizarre post. Bookies print coupons because they want to encourage accumulators.
Ron I was merely refering to the inclusion prices on coupons not the abolition of coupons altogether.
They could still print coupons with all the matches on just with no prices. That would still encourage the multiple bets.
Bookmakers have long considered whether to get rid of coupons and the only reason they don`t is because punters don`t like change. The downside is of course the increasing number of price changes which make the coupons virtually redundant some weeks.
Ron I was merely refering to the inclusion prices on coupons not the abolition of coupons altogether.
They could still print coupons with all the matches on just with no prices. That would still encourage the multiple bets.
Bookmakers have long considered whether to get rid of coupons and the only reason they don`t is because punters don`t like change. The downside is of course the increasing number of price changes which make the coupons virtually redundant some weeks.
How hard is it for a member of shop staff to go out and change all the coupons in the shop?
The answer is, not very.
good luck telling maureen about oxford changing from 8/11 to 4/6, when bargain hunt is on
The answer is, not very.
good luck telling maureen about oxford changing from 8/11 to 4/6, when bargain hunt is on
It's ridiculous to expect staff to change prices on all the coupons. For one thing, despite what Banks has said, bookies have no intention of getting rid of coupons and are in fact introducing more different slips all the time so there would now be literally hundreds of coupons to amend. Secondly, it is unnecessary as the tills come up with an alert when a match with a price change has been selected and it is up to the cashier to inform the customer if they have selected a match with a price change. Whether the customer gets to find out at the time probably depends on the ability of the cashier or even on the nature of the bet: if it's just one match in a 50p 10-fold then it probably won't be mentioned but, if it's on a £50 treble, for example, then the cashier should certainly be informing the customer and are failing in their job if they do not.
As for printers in shops, they do exist but are only in a few selected branches, probably about 1 in every 30 branches of the larger firms. If necessary, shops without a printer can go that branch to get extra coupons printed.
Anyway, I think people are exaggerating the number of price changes on the coupons. It probably happens more on foreign football matches where the odds compilers are less clued up about the teams. In the English leagues, price changes are the exception rather than the rule and I would nine times out of ten, the odds that are advertised are the odds you receive.
As for printers in shops, they do exist but are only in a few selected branches, probably about 1 in every 30 branches of the larger firms. If necessary, shops without a printer can go that branch to get extra coupons printed.
Anyway, I think people are exaggerating the number of price changes on the coupons. It probably happens more on foreign football matches where the odds compilers are less clued up about the teams. In the English leagues, price changes are the exception rather than the rule and I would nine times out of ten, the odds that are advertised are the odds you receive.
Simple solution have a board next to the coupon rack displaying the price changes. Seen a few bookies do it and seems to work ok.
Simple solution have a board next to the coupon rack displaying the price changes. Seen a few bookies do it and seems to work ok.
You would need one hell of a big board.
You would need one hell of a big board.
Kenilworth showing his ignorance yet again. Some firms (betfred, many independents etc) have in shop coupon printing as standard. So no idea why the concept is so amusing to ole ken. I suspect kenilworth's comments might hold some merit in 1995 but they are nothing short of laughable in 2010
Sorry to bring it up again but can someone tell me what it is the cashier wrote on my slip?
tiny.cc/8djjz
tiny.cc/8djjz
Rocket,
That's just the cashier's initials. Hills staff are instructed to initial prices they write on the slip just to show it is them who have laid the price and not the customer.
Nothing sinister going on there!
That's just the cashier's initials. Hills staff are instructed to initial prices they write on the slip just to show it is them who have laid the price and not the customer.
Nothing sinister going on there!
Didcot, are you telling me that when there is a price change, all the existing
coupons are scrapped and new ones are printed in shop ?
coupons are scrapped and new ones are printed in shop ?
kenilworth Joined: 04 Nov 05
Replies: 2714 23 Jul 10 15:11
Didcot, are you telling me that when there is a price change, all the existing
coupons are scrapped and new ones are printed in shop ?
what i wrote was very self exlainatory ken. permit me to reiterrate. some firms have in shop coupon printing where they print new coupons every day or more frequently (depending on demand) showing the price changes.
on occasions where an old coupon, or out of date price is given on a quickslip the EPOS system will promt the cashier that there has been a price change on selection x. Now if the bet in question is a 50p 10-fold i can understand not bothering to tell the customer, but if it is a decent sized bet it is inexcusable practice IMO.
Replies: 2714 23 Jul 10 15:11
Didcot, are you telling me that when there is a price change, all the existing
coupons are scrapped and new ones are printed in shop ?
what i wrote was very self exlainatory ken. permit me to reiterrate. some firms have in shop coupon printing where they print new coupons every day or more frequently (depending on demand) showing the price changes.
on occasions where an old coupon, or out of date price is given on a quickslip the EPOS system will promt the cashier that there has been a price change on selection x. Now if the bet in question is a 50p 10-fold i can understand not bothering to tell the customer, but if it is a decent sized bet it is inexcusable practice IMO.
So regards the opening post, how would the punter know
the price (9/5) was gone unless he asked for confirmation
of same ?
the price (9/5) was gone unless he asked for confirmation
of same ?
he doesn't need to ask. all hills coupons are mark sense and when put scanned the system will prompt the cashier that "the price has changed from 9/5 to 6/4, Ok or cancel"
at this point the cashier should tell the customer. they obviously didn't out of sheer laziness. i'd imagin it's company policy to do so. granted 6/4 would have been clearly printed on the ticket.
at this point the cashier should tell the customer. they obviously didn't out of sheer laziness. i'd imagin it's company policy to do so. granted 6/4 would have been clearly printed on the ticket.
He didn't bother to look at the receipt, but you (and him) chose
to blame the counter assistant for not telling him, because he/she
''was too lazy''. Was he (the punter) not a bit lazy ? Don't you
think some punters are their own worse enemy at times ?
to blame the counter assistant for not telling him, because he/she
''was too lazy''. Was he (the punter) not a bit lazy ? Don't you
think some punters are their own worse enemy at times ?
kenilworth,
You're right, customers should check the receipt to make sure the details are correct. However, the main responsibility lies with the cashier to inform the customer at the point of acceptance. Soccergeez is entitled to expect the odds that are printed on the coupon will be the odds he'll receive. The cashier should not assume the customer will still want to place the bet if the returns will be lower.
You're right, customers should check the receipt to make sure the details are correct. However, the main responsibility lies with the cashier to inform the customer at the point of acceptance. Soccergeez is entitled to expect the odds that are printed on the coupon will be the odds he'll receive. The cashier should not assume the customer will still want to place the bet if the returns will be lower.
Wizard, if I had a bet in a betting office, taking a price which
would be my reason for the bet, I would be making sure I got the
price I wanted. I would also feel as it is my money, I have the
ultimate resonsibility, and after all, the confirmation only takes
a few seconds. I don't feel I am entitled to expect the price on
the coupon to be the same as I recieve, especially as we know that
prices are ''subject to fluctation'', and do fluctuate a lot. Just
a view. GL.
would be my reason for the bet, I would be making sure I got the
price I wanted. I would also feel as it is my money, I have the
ultimate resonsibility, and after all, the confirmation only takes
a few seconds. I don't feel I am entitled to expect the price on
the coupon to be the same as I recieve, especially as we know that
prices are ''subject to fluctation'', and do fluctuate a lot. Just
a view. GL.
You don't think the cashier has any responsibility?
Not knowing what instruction she works under, it may be that
the receipt issued clears her, besides there would be no come
back on her, would there ? I still think the punter has the
ultimate as it is his money that is involved, not hers. I used
to work on course where it was a bit trickier, as the bets were
verbal rather than written, but the receipt was crucial and
important for the punter to check, something they didn't always
do. We had the odd dispute but nothing that wasn't resolved.
Betting shop punters are very spoiled in my view.
the receipt issued clears her, besides there would be no come
back on her, would there ? I still think the punter has the
ultimate as it is his money that is involved, not hers. I used
to work on course where it was a bit trickier, as the bets were
verbal rather than written, but the receipt was crucial and
important for the punter to check, something they didn't always
do. We had the odd dispute but nothing that wasn't resolved.
Betting shop punters are very spoiled in my view.
I'm pretty sure all coupons say "prices subject to fluctuation" these days. It's too costly to reproduce coupons for every change, and changes are few and far between imo. Do you know what's funny? When a team's price comes in, the draw and/or the other team's price drifts. No-one ever complains when they're on the 'right' side of a price change though.
Punters need to wake up to the (not 'illegal') practices of bookmakers and make sure that they adapt.
Punters need to wake up to the (not 'illegal') practices of bookmakers and make sure that they adapt.
omg, anyone still moaning that the shops/cashiers should be doing this or that. They aren't, apart from those print coupons etc. That's all there is to it.
Check the price & make sure you are happy with what you leave the shop with. Do you check your change? Of course you do. ffs.
Check the price & make sure you are happy with what you leave the shop with. Do you check your change? Of course you do. ffs.
DaveEdwards, you are not suggesting that betting shop punters
take resposibility for getting their own bets on correctly, are you ?
take resposibility for getting their own bets on correctly, are you ?
you are a fool kenilworth.when i worked in a bookmakers and was presented with a bet that had a price on it,i checked the price was correct and initialed it.if the price was not the same as the customer had on the docket i would inform him and ask what he would like to do (ie take correct price,sp or leave the bet) i dont see how the clampits employed these days with all their computerised tills etc cant do the same.
This thread is a classic, feck you, no feck you thread.
Coupons are a r s e paper no more, no less.
Coupons are a r s e paper no more, no less.
jason, your post doesn't merit a response. You truly
are a very rude idiot.
are a very rude idiot.
What about the scenario where the receipt has the 'correct' price (generated from the coupon) on it but when you go to collect they they pull the "oh that price changed before you put the bet on, coupon says prices subject to fluctuation blah, blah". That happened to me a few times, not for big money but bu11sh1t anyway.
If you keep getting shafted. Maybe remove yourself from the shaft zone would be the best bet.
Jason, the bottom line is that an awful lot of the staff behind the counter these days don't know the time of day. Regardless of what their company may expect of them if they are on minimum wage you quite often get minimum effort on their part.
There is no point moaning about this. If you bet over the counter then you must get the person to check the price at the time of placing your bet. It is a shame that during the race for profits by the larger companies a lot of the older style shop staff who really understood the game have moved on.
There is no point moaning about this. If you bet over the counter then you must get the person to check the price at the time of placing your bet. It is a shame that during the race for profits by the larger companies a lot of the older style shop staff who really understood the game have moved on.
loadabolex..why should staff check your bet....any price on any event will fluctuate;if your that dumb dont go in there.............aint rocket science...checking any price....footer coupons are in on tuesday..you think every single price be the same for sat...lol.
I can't seriously believe some people are trying to defend bookies on the subject of coupon price changes. 
Yes, ideally every single person who walks in should check themselves.
However, in the real world - I notice a comment about it being impractical for a hard worked cashier to inform someone of every single price change when they have 5 people queuing to put a dog bet on for which the race goes off in 20 seconds. But that works two ways. What if I have a 10 match acca when the same situation arises, do I still have to ask the cashier to check every single price to see if any have changed, (thus ensuring that the person who wants his 50p reverse forecast on the 2.48 at Crayford can't place his bet) or am I entitled to assume they are correct unless I am told otherwise?
The facts are perfectly clear. The onus is on the business to ensure the correct prices are displayed or conveyed to the customer. Simple as that. Whether there is a big sign up, the cashier informs the customer, the manager does so, whatever.
You don't walk into Tesco and ask if the price of beans is 25p. You assume it is, and purchase accordingly. (Do you always check your receipt for every one of say, 30 items and make sure every single one is the same price to the penny as displayed on the shelf - fair play if you do, I, along with I suspect 99.99% of the population, don't!). You don't walk into Dixons, see a TV for £400, and ask if that is correct. You assume it is, and purchase accordingly.
Get the idea? Oh, and rest assured that price changes occur in supermarkets far more often than in bookmakers, they seem to find a system of ensuring the prices are up to date and correctly displayed at all times, yet we should accept that bookmakers cannot? Rubbish.
The level of ignorance of basic laws on this thread quite frankly astounds me, and undoubtedly explains why people get such poor service!
A helpfull piece of advice. Google "The Sale of Goods Act 1979", and you will find why it is illegal to display incorrect prices. And just putting "prices are subject to fluctuation" does NOT exempt you from this. Nor is there a special exemption if a business happens to be a bookmaker, rather than a supermarket - this may come as news to some of you!
Yes, ideally every single person who walks in should check themselves.
However, in the real world - I notice a comment about it being impractical for a hard worked cashier to inform someone of every single price change when they have 5 people queuing to put a dog bet on for which the race goes off in 20 seconds. But that works two ways. What if I have a 10 match acca when the same situation arises, do I still have to ask the cashier to check every single price to see if any have changed, (thus ensuring that the person who wants his 50p reverse forecast on the 2.48 at Crayford can't place his bet) or am I entitled to assume they are correct unless I am told otherwise?
The facts are perfectly clear. The onus is on the business to ensure the correct prices are displayed or conveyed to the customer. Simple as that. Whether there is a big sign up, the cashier informs the customer, the manager does so, whatever.
You don't walk into Tesco and ask if the price of beans is 25p. You assume it is, and purchase accordingly. (Do you always check your receipt for every one of say, 30 items and make sure every single one is the same price to the penny as displayed on the shelf - fair play if you do, I, along with I suspect 99.99% of the population, don't!). You don't walk into Dixons, see a TV for £400, and ask if that is correct. You assume it is, and purchase accordingly.
Get the idea? Oh, and rest assured that price changes occur in supermarkets far more often than in bookmakers, they seem to find a system of ensuring the prices are up to date and correctly displayed at all times, yet we should accept that bookmakers cannot? Rubbish.
The level of ignorance of basic laws on this thread quite frankly astounds me, and undoubtedly explains why people get such poor service!
A helpfull piece of advice. Google "The Sale of Goods Act 1979", and you will find why it is illegal to display incorrect prices. And just putting "prices are subject to fluctuation" does NOT exempt you from this. Nor is there a special exemption if a business happens to be a bookmaker, rather than a supermarket - this may come as news to some of you!
simple solution, shops in future dont use football coupons.
or they print coupons without guide prices displayed at all.
or they print coupons without guide prices displayed at all.
Asking if a price has changed invariably results in one of the following replies anyway:
1. "The prices don't change, mate"
2. "No" (they can't be arsed checking)
3. "No" (they don't know where to find price changes on the screen)
or a rare but most enjoyable
4. "ffs" (before phoning to refer it and calling the lad on the other end of the phone a "mong")
1. "The prices don't change, mate"
2. "No" (they can't be arsed checking)
3. "No" (they don't know where to find price changes on the screen)
or a rare but most enjoyable
4. "ffs" (before phoning to refer it and calling the lad on the other end of the phone a "mong")
Again, firms have every right to make coupon changes, they have to be comfortable in the prices they trade, but it is wrong that the prices they trade are often advertised incorrectly by their representatives.
im no legal eagle but im sure an advertised price refers to something more specific than a guide price, the coupons are a snapshot of the markets as they were at the time of printing, not a catalogue.
"The Sale of Goods Act 1979" - what exactly are the shops selling? im not even sure the sale of goods act applies to gambling.. maybe if your 10 fold gets pumped next weekend you could go back to the branch and say your slip was faulty
a price sensitive punter should always check their slip, the slip thats paid for is the evidence a contract was struck between the punter-bookie, not the coupon, its upto both parties to make sure a price is correct.
i just googled some of this to find out, look up "Invitation to treat", anybody selling an item doesnt have to sell for the advertised price if they dont want to. they have to prove theres a system in place to inform customers of the true price before a contract is struck. so if a customer comes in demanding a coupon price, the bookmaker doesnt have to honour it.
im no legal eagle but im sure an advertised price refers to something more specific than a guide price, the coupons are a snapshot of the markets as they were at the time of printing, not a catalogue.
"The Sale of Goods Act 1979" - what exactly are the shops selling? im not even sure the sale of goods act applies to gambling.. maybe if your 10 fold gets pumped next weekend you could go back to the branch and say your slip was faulty
a price sensitive punter should always check their slip, the slip thats paid for is the evidence a contract was struck between the punter-bookie, not the coupon, its upto both parties to make sure a price is correct.
i just googled some of this to find out, look up "Invitation to treat", anybody selling an item doesnt have to sell for the advertised price if they dont want to. they have to prove theres a system in place to inform customers of the true price before a contract is struck. so if a customer comes in demanding a coupon price, the bookmaker doesnt have to honour it.
Just to make clear a few points on this limping dog of a thread:
1) I hope we can all agree it is unrealistic to expect any bookmaker to stand by the prices printed on a coupon when the circumstances surrounding a match can change. Can you imagine a coupon being printed for a horse race running on Saturday a week before the race and expect to get the same odds at the weekend?
2) Some firms (Hills for one) do offer 'quick slips' featuring selected matches without any odds displayed. In my experience, these have so far proved unpopular.
3) It is no hardship for the cashier to point out to a customer when a price has changed as I'm pretty sure all firms now use EPOS tills and it will be alerted as the coupon is processed through the till. They do not have to look at each individual selection and check the prices on the screen.
4) I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the laws on whether bookmakers have to honour prices advertised on a coupon but, irrespective of this, it is simply bad service for cashiers not to inform customers of relevant price changes when the information is right in front of them.
5) The number of price changes on matches during the regular season is being exaggerated anyway and are the exception rather than the rule.
Thank you and good night!
1) I hope we can all agree it is unrealistic to expect any bookmaker to stand by the prices printed on a coupon when the circumstances surrounding a match can change. Can you imagine a coupon being printed for a horse race running on Saturday a week before the race and expect to get the same odds at the weekend?
2) Some firms (Hills for one) do offer 'quick slips' featuring selected matches without any odds displayed. In my experience, these have so far proved unpopular.
3) It is no hardship for the cashier to point out to a customer when a price has changed as I'm pretty sure all firms now use EPOS tills and it will be alerted as the coupon is processed through the till. They do not have to look at each individual selection and check the prices on the screen.
4) I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the laws on whether bookmakers have to honour prices advertised on a coupon but, irrespective of this, it is simply bad service for cashiers not to inform customers of relevant price changes when the information is right in front of them.
5) The number of price changes on matches during the regular season is being exaggerated anyway and are the exception rather than the rule.
Thank you and good night!
Can someone please explain to me how the Sale of Goods Act 1979 applies to a bet struck between a layer and a backer?
Imho no goods or services change hands. It is an agreement between the two parties that whatever the outcome of the event one party will retain the agreed back and lay amounts.
Imho no goods or services change hands. It is an agreement between the two parties that whatever the outcome of the event one party will retain the agreed back and lay amounts.
turtleshead, schluck and wizards sleeve - excellent posts that as the last named called it should put to bed this 'limping dog of a thread' but probably won't.
Agreed this has been a limping dog of a thread, but the issue is with those that just don't deal with the situation instead of spending their time moaning about things they have no control over.
You occupy some sort of intellectual high ground now theresbeenagoal by typing QED?
My opinion on this subject is perfectly valid and deals with the reality of the situation.
My opinion on this subject is perfectly valid and deals with the reality of the situation.
Soccergeez.
When they don't honour them.
Put a bet on @ Hills today, coupon price 9/5, was in a mad rush and didnt check the price on the receipt I was given. Just looked now and I'm on at 6/4, they didnt even have the courtesy to tell me they were laying me a different price. Pathetic
What hasn't happened in this thread is to solve the opening posters problem. Was the counter assistant supposed to run out the shop after him and tell him his pick was 6/4 and not 9/5 ?
When they don't honour them.
Put a bet on @ Hills today, coupon price 9/5, was in a mad rush and didnt check the price on the receipt I was given. Just looked now and I'm on at 6/4, they didnt even have the courtesy to tell me they were laying me a different price. Pathetic
What hasn't happened in this thread is to solve the opening posters problem. Was the counter assistant supposed to run out the shop after him and tell him his pick was 6/4 and not 9/5 ?
Ken, it is from the Latin Quod Erat Demonstrandum, which basically means which was demonstrated. So when I replied after mrintellectuallysuperiortheresbeenagoal had stated that the thread should end in his role as forum administrator he was basically trying to show that this was limping further forwards again after he had called a halt to proceedings.
"Was the counter assistant supposed to run out the shop after him and tell him his pick was 6/4 and not 9/5?"
No, they were supposed to inform them before money changed hands and if he still wanted to place the bet at the revised price.
Not rocket science, is it?
Dave Edwards / clacherholiday2 - of course the Act applies - you can argue whether you are purchasing a service (the ability to place a wager at certain odds) or goods (the piece of paper which you get as a receipt once it has passed through the till) - either way it does count, rest assured!
This is the relevant part:
Your Rights
If you have bought goods you have a right to expect that they should be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality:
‘As described’ means that it should correspond to any description given about the goods such as the quantity, colour, measurements etc. These descriptions may be verbal statements about the goods, statements in the brochure, on a shelf edge or even on the box.
I can guarantee you 100% that this covers bookmakers displayed prices just as much as Tesco's baked beans.
No, they were supposed to inform them before money changed hands and if he still wanted to place the bet at the revised price.
Not rocket science, is it?
Dave Edwards / clacherholiday2 - of course the Act applies - you can argue whether you are purchasing a service (the ability to place a wager at certain odds) or goods (the piece of paper which you get as a receipt once it has passed through the till) - either way it does count, rest assured!
This is the relevant part:
Your Rights
If you have bought goods you have a right to expect that they should be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality:
‘As described’ means that it should correspond to any description given about the goods such as the quantity, colour, measurements etc. These descriptions may be verbal statements about the goods, statements in the brochure, on a shelf edge or even on the box.
I can guarantee you 100% that this covers bookmakers displayed prices just as much as Tesco's baked beans.
Dave Edwards / clacherholiday2 - of course the Act applies - you can argue whether you are purchasing a service (the ability to place a wager at certain odds) or goods (the piece of paper which you get as a receipt once it has passed through the till) - either way it does count, rest assured!
I'm just not sure whether you are actually buying a service here. Both parties are agreeing to a bet, one on more favourable terms usually than the other. I would suggest that this is more in line with an agreement between two parties than the purchase of any goods or services. The receipt is merely proof of the agreement imho.
Do you have a legal background turtle?
I'm just not sure whether you are actually buying a service here. Both parties are agreeing to a bet, one on more favourable terms usually than the other. I would suggest that this is more in line with an agreement between two parties than the purchase of any goods or services. The receipt is merely proof of the agreement imho.
Do you have a legal background turtle?
mrintellectuallysuperiortheresbeenagoal
thanks Dave, appreciated.
thanks Dave, appreciated.
last observation from me, if the shops are understaffed why do they have someone standing next to the FOBT's with a clipboard on a satuday afternoon trying to get 70 year olds hooked on the machines?
turtleshead
"Was the counter assistant supposed to run out the shop after him and tell him his pick was 6/4 and not 9/5?"
No, they were supposed to inform them before money changed hands and if he still wanted to place the bet at the revised price.
Not rocket science, is it?
Not rocket science, but where is your comeback if she doesn't ?
"Was the counter assistant supposed to run out the shop after him and tell him his pick was 6/4 and not 9/5?"
No, they were supposed to inform them before money changed hands and if he still wanted to place the bet at the revised price.
Not rocket science, is it?
Not rocket science, but where is your comeback if she doesn't ?
Kenilworth, your comeback is that they have a legal requirement to tell you, same as in any other business.
I don't have a specific legal qualification, Dave Edwards, but I have a reasonable knowledge of laws / acts / statutes relating to consumer protection, The Sale of Goods Act being one.
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations is another - I'll give you an example of how I used it:
Some time ago, I had a contract phone which I generally used mainly for phoning a specific racing service (I won't mention which one). Now as you may or may not know, you have to ring what they call a "non geographic number" ie 0870, 0844, etc.
One day, I got a text informing me that with effect from a month's time, they would increase charges to those numbers from 10p per minute to 20p per minute. Naturally, I complained. I was told that it was in the contract and they could do this. Fine, I said, I'll cancel the contract (It was an old phone and I was going to change it sooner or later anyway). I was told that to do this I would have to pay for the remainder of the line rental for the year, which was just over 3 months worth, and that until they had this payment, they would not process my cancellation.
After arguing and being told this by 3/4 different people (including supervisors / managers), I gave up and simply sent them an email telling them I was cancelling it by giving them the same months notice which they had used to inform me of the change. I said that I wasn't going to pay them a penny for the unused line rental, as I believed that any clause which allowed them to increase their charges by such a huge amount would be deemed "unfair" under the aforementioned Act, and that if they disagreed, they could take me to court, we could each argue our case, and may the best person win.
Have a guess what happened?
A few days later I got a reply confirming the cancellation of my contract without paying the remainder of the rental.
Funny that, eh?
It pays to know your rights, otherwise companies walk all over you.
I don't have a specific legal qualification, Dave Edwards, but I have a reasonable knowledge of laws / acts / statutes relating to consumer protection, The Sale of Goods Act being one.
The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations is another - I'll give you an example of how I used it:
Some time ago, I had a contract phone which I generally used mainly for phoning a specific racing service (I won't mention which one). Now as you may or may not know, you have to ring what they call a "non geographic number" ie 0870, 0844, etc.
One day, I got a text informing me that with effect from a month's time, they would increase charges to those numbers from 10p per minute to 20p per minute. Naturally, I complained. I was told that it was in the contract and they could do this. Fine, I said, I'll cancel the contract (It was an old phone and I was going to change it sooner or later anyway). I was told that to do this I would have to pay for the remainder of the line rental for the year, which was just over 3 months worth, and that until they had this payment, they would not process my cancellation.
After arguing and being told this by 3/4 different people (including supervisors / managers), I gave up and simply sent them an email telling them I was cancelling it by giving them the same months notice which they had used to inform me of the change. I said that I wasn't going to pay them a penny for the unused line rental, as I believed that any clause which allowed them to increase their charges by such a huge amount would be deemed "unfair" under the aforementioned Act, and that if they disagreed, they could take me to court, we could each argue our case, and may the best person win.
Have a guess what happened?
A few days later I got a reply confirming the cancellation of my contract without paying the remainder of the rental.
Funny that, eh?
It pays to know your rights, otherwise companies walk all over you.
turtleshead
.
Kenilworth, your comeback is that they have a legal requirement to tell you, same as in any other business
How would you ever prove that she didn't tell you ?
As someone once said ''Verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are written on''
.
Kenilworth, your comeback is that they have a legal requirement to tell you, same as in any other business
How would you ever prove that she didn't tell you ?
As someone once said ''Verbal agreements are not worth the paper they are written on''
Having a few bits of legal background [;)] I would say this is an especially "grey" area after the 2005 act.
The fact it is a contract should apply, unless it is a complete error. I think the "objective rule" sorts this out.
If I see a bet that is 1/5 rather than 5/1 then I should realise that is incorrect.
If I see one that is 9/5 then "chopped" into 6/4, that is not a mistake.
They are taking the urine out of us, and need sorting. We need one person to land a huge 8-fold acca or something similar to get subject to this disgraceful treatment, and then we might get a finding in law.
Personally, I think it is borderline deception, unless it is immediately pointed out.
It's a little like going into to Tesco, getting a 2 for 1 deal, and then being charged for both of them, and not realising until you get to your car. I can guarantee you that they will give you money back for one item when you go back with the receipt.
The comment of "Invetation to treat" or invitatio ad offerendum is indeed correct, but once a contract is struck then you are in a contract, of which terms can only be altered by BOTH parties.
The fact it is a contract should apply, unless it is a complete error. I think the "objective rule" sorts this out.
If I see a bet that is 1/5 rather than 5/1 then I should realise that is incorrect.
If I see one that is 9/5 then "chopped" into 6/4, that is not a mistake.
They are taking the urine out of us, and need sorting. We need one person to land a huge 8-fold acca or something similar to get subject to this disgraceful treatment, and then we might get a finding in law.
Personally, I think it is borderline deception, unless it is immediately pointed out.
It's a little like going into to Tesco, getting a 2 for 1 deal, and then being charged for both of them, and not realising until you get to your car. I can guarantee you that they will give you money back for one item when you go back with the receipt.
The comment of "Invetation to treat" or invitatio ad offerendum is indeed correct, but once a contract is struck then you are in a contract, of which terms can only be altered by BOTH parties.
Oh, and there such a thing as a "red hand clause" where if a contract were to be changed then it has to be explicitely stated on the contract. ie the betting slip
on the subject of tesco if you get charged more than the advertised price then they give you double the difference back even if the date of the offer has passed
Also, never mind bookies not laying coupon prices my local bookie doesn't even lay screen prices !
Also, never mind bookies not laying coupon prices my local bookie doesn't even lay screen prices !
Never thought I would see the day when Tesco prices were compared to Hill's prices !
toffee87 25 Jul 10 20:04
on the subject of tesco if you get charged more than the advertised price then they give you double the difference back even if the date of the offer has passed
turtleshead
You don't walk into Tesco and ask if the price of beans is 25p
Not sure its fair to compare the price of a can of baked beans to a selection on a coupon, lol.
on the subject of tesco if you get charged more than the advertised price then they give you double the difference back even if the date of the offer has passed
turtleshead
You don't walk into Tesco and ask if the price of beans is 25p
Not sure its fair to compare the price of a can of baked beans to a selection on a coupon, lol.
If you start Puting Brand Names Like That On The Table Your In Trouble
Two questions I used to ask when getting phone calls about disputes
"What time was the bet taken?" and "Is there a price on the slip?"
The EPoS systems now print the correct price after a price change as the OP found out.
Coupons are such an outdated way for shopsto advertise now but punters like them. Most shops take as little as 20% of coupons issued with many people just picking one up for reference
How about this solution which was suggested a few years ago?
SINGLES & DOUBLES
No Guarantee for coupon prices, you get the current price
TREBLES & UPWARDS
Guarantee coupon prices upto £250. This would prevent upsetting regular punters when Celtic have changed from 8/13 to 4/7
Remember, these prices are 111% and should rarely go too far under the BF price
"What time was the bet taken?" and "Is there a price on the slip?"
The EPoS systems now print the correct price after a price change as the OP found out.
Coupons are such an outdated way for shopsto advertise now but punters like them. Most shops take as little as 20% of coupons issued with many people just picking one up for reference
How about this solution which was suggested a few years ago?
SINGLES & DOUBLES
No Guarantee for coupon prices, you get the current price
TREBLES & UPWARDS
Guarantee coupon prices upto £250. This would prevent upsetting regular punters when Celtic have changed from 8/13 to 4/7
Remember, these prices are 111% and should rarely go too far under the BF price
Remember, these prices are 111% and should rarely go too far under the BF price
I though that some of the coupons later in the week were down to 107% ish??
Cant the tills print off 'fresh' coupons for customers to use? I know some will take them home but if they are informed that when they fill them out they need a new coupon??
I though that some of the coupons later in the week were down to 107% ish??
Cant the tills print off 'fresh' coupons for customers to use? I know some will take them home but if they are informed that when they fill them out they need a new coupon??
Just to bring this post back up I have had a definitive answer from the bookie in question.
Should the price of a selection change from that printed on the coupon, the cashier will be able to see on their terminal that the price has moved and must inform the customer before the bet is processed.
Bit unlucky for the shop and cashier in question that the only reason I was there in the first place was to carry out a mystery shop on them
Should the price of a selection change from that printed on the coupon, the cashier will be able to see on their terminal that the price has moved and must inform the customer before the bet is processed.
Bit unlucky for the shop and cashier in question that the only reason I was there in the first place was to carry out a mystery shop on them
Just been to Lads to back Hadjuk Split @ 4/5.
By the coupons, there was notice of one price change, namely Zenit, who played yesterday.
On the staff messages screen there was notice of limits on Torquay on Saturday, and no other information.
When I looked at my slip, Hadjuk were 8/13. I got my money back.
By the coupons, there was notice of one price change, namely Zenit, who played yesterday.
On the staff messages screen there was notice of limits on Torquay on Saturday, and no other information.
When I looked at my slip, Hadjuk were 8/13. I got my money back.
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