The all new liquidity generating premium charge

The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

The extra money generated by the all new liquidity generating premium charge is used to decrease the maximum rate of normal commission which brings in new clients. It's just like betfair's logic behind the original pc only this time it's for real.

Traders and gamblers can operate in very different markets and at v. different times.

So why not run a trial auction in a market where the traders are unlikely to be playing e.g. a horse race before first show. There cd be three auctions: overnight (or before PW has been copy-edited ;) ), at 10 am and at 1pm. 15 mins. before the first race of the day, bf could resume its usual interface.

Traders cd ignore the auctions, while punters and would-be punters cd find out 1) whether the system cd work; 2) ... in sufficient liquidity, and 3) whether they do better or worse in the absence of spoofers and copycats.

Feck N. Eejit 13 Sep 16:30


The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%


The extra money generated to finance Fecks trip to the priory

Sounds good askari. In the meantime curly and his friends can play at supplying famous liquidity to betquack.

Ken and Bandido - you both ask why if I dislike Betfair / PC that I don't go elsewhere?

Unfortunately, I think you are too lost in your opinion to read what I am saying. There are two key points, which I summarise for you below.

1) There is already a minimum charge of 20%, and whilst I don't believe the service is any different than last year, I'm very happy that I can make money here and have long since given up trying to avoid it.

2) I do not want my service charge to increase to 48% when I have a good week (the commission generated illusion makes Feck's proposal rise to almost half of your winnings).

To those lobbying for further price increases, I ask you, do you do the same for other luxury (non-essential) B2C services that you utilise, i.e. Sky, broadband, mobile...?

Here's why I don't want to see any further price increases:-

60 weeks service charges to bet on Golf (GBP)

105 - O2 Broadband
840 - Sky HD, Sky Plus and Sky Player (VoD)
28,141 - Betfair

I already think I am paying more than enough for the service thank you, and will add what little voice I have to those arguing against further increases, whether they are traders, book-makers, IR layers/backers etc...

sjp, I don't lobby for any price increases, only that I am not paying a higher amount of charges on my profits betting straight than traders, skimmers, scalpers etc. I smile when you mention paying 44% when you have a particularly good week ! Straight punters can only dream of that. In the last 60 weeks my commission was 32% of my profit and I am probably in the tip 10% winners betting straight, so when no trader is paying less than that, we will be nearer to a fair deal.

Ken - I am not a regular punter (as you describe one).

I bet in four markets a week, two pairs that are tightly related. It is not at all unusual for me to win on all four markets, as punters all tend to follow each other and I'm left with those that are not tipped in the racing post.

So - I'd regularly be paying 48% of gross profit, which makes your 35% look like peanuts...

You say that you have worked in a bookmaker before - how many losing weeks/months do bookies have?

The priory have refused entry to feck. They say he cant be admitted because his last 3 account managers are already in there on long term stays :( .

The latest one actually cut off both his own ears in a desperate attempt to get away from fecks walofs about the pc, the q, banning the whip, injuring jockeys etc etc.

Ps has kenilworth ever proved he wins on here. It defies belief tbh.

It`s hard to believe anyone loses Heynoodles ,Ken should be in the next BF advertising campaign.

sjp, I am not advocating price increases, I'm suggesting something that would make the commission scheme a bit fairer. The divisor in the all new formula need not be 2, it could be greater depending on what would bring traders into line with gamblers while allowing a reduction in the maximum rate of normal commission.

Gamblers have to supply the information for traders to act on and they then may have to accept worse odds because a middleman has acted on that information. They are then traumatised by a flawed charge that only exists because of traders (some gamblers have missed an entire flat season while betfair iron out flaws), a charge that will inevitably cost us all customers and hamper recruitment. On top of that it's only a matter of time before winners on here are taxed by the government because of betfair's artificially created glut of winners. Since betfair now recognise that this glut of winners is bad for betfair and that, between them, they provide negligible liquidity it defies belief that tey're still here far less why gamblers are still having to subsidise them in terms of commission.

I thought we had to post in English here Feck...lol

sjp, I don't lobby for price increases. The ANLGPC would a price decrease for the majority of customers. You might not be one of them, but that's too bad.

More important however is to talk about the interface. To take Feck's toilet analogy, I would say the solution is (1) and not (2).

I only become aware of the premium charges last week as I didn't notice the first 2 weekly payments (of just over £168 and £40), just the 3rd payment last week which was £200. I have obviously opened (re-initiated actually) a betd*q account as I will not bet here anymore until they change the rules from '60 weeks winners' to 'lifetime winners' which I understand is likely to happen in 1-2 months time.

Unfortunately the other site does not offer as many markets as BF and also the liquidity is not as good, so not only will I be betting on a different site I will also be betting a lot less too.

El Bandido 14 Sep 10:49
sjp, I don't lobby for price increases. The ANLGPC would a price decrease for the majority of customers. You might not be one of them, but that's too bad.

Well that's won me over. Bring on the 48%.

In the long term, laying entire fields to pocket the overround is a strategy that will be closed out by improved technology. A series of price auctions is the way forward. The normal punter benefits from this by being matched directly with other punters (at 100% book prices) without the middleman.

I also lay the field in various markets and make a profit from this, so in a way it would close this possibility. But I bet with my own opinion of prices so I can adapt, and have done since the introduction of the PC. If I was being short-sighted, I might oppose everything Feck says, but in the long term I'm much better off if the normal punters are getting a better deal.

The middlemen are living on borrowed time. Adapt or die.

Tell me Bandido, how does your auto-matching work in events that can have 10 winners?

Yes

Well that explains it then. Barry Dennis must be sh1tting himself.

at 1000% obviously

El Bandido 14 Sep 14:40
at 1000% obviously

So I want Tiger Woods a top 10 and you want Mickelson a top 10 - we get matched against each other do we?

What happens if we both win?

What happens if the back side of the market is trading at 700% rather than 999%? Have you even considered markets that are not 'flies around sh1t@ (to use Feck's parlance)?

Sure, if cross matching can't be satisfied then backer is matched with layer.

OK - I'll be more explicit.

How does cross matching work in markets with more than one winner, when it is not possible to calculate who the other winners may be?

Let's say you have 50 players. For simplicity let's assume they're all equal and you have backers who have placed min odds of 5.0 for each of them into the top 10 market. Then when the auction takes place they can be cross-matched with each other.

Well, thanks for that. As a 'middleman' I was getting worried that my days are numbered. I am now totally at ease.

Living on borrowed time.

Aye - well I've only got 40 years left, so I'll be alright, as will my kids. That's all I really care about...

The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

ttb

Everybody knows that the bulk of those paying pc had a free lunch for 8 years. Now that they're paying a fair bit more they're constantly whinging about it (even though they're still paying less than everyone else) and telling us how they would never recommend betfair to anyone and how they bet elsewhere whenever they can.

I've just had a great idea. Why don't betfair reward them by giving them cashback on all tote bets equivalent to the commission betfair receive on such bets? As a gambler I'd be only too happy to get nothing back on my tote bets if it would cheer up these sainted fkng cnuts.

thats why they had q and a,to tell us they about to fuc*k us all

Jesus man Feck , give it up for your health's sake ...you'll end up in the nuthouse .

You have a small point ,but jeez .... life is full of irregularities .

I pay more propotionally for my council tax as a single dude, than the couple over the road ,but i dont spend all year writing on forums making a song and dance about it :|

You'd maybe change your mind Coachbuster if they were putting their extra rubbish in your bin with the council's permission and whinging continually about paying considerably less council tax than you.

Anyway, thanks for bringing it to the top. ;-)


The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

Coachbuster,

Maggie had the answer to that anomaly. She was even kind enough to let our Scottish cousins have first dibs on the fairer system where everyone is treated equally. Did they show any gratitude? No, just a constant whine fest.

A company that really is in-tune with its customers would respond formally to suggestions like this. Why is it that despite a lot of well-reasoned argument we never get a response from BF - formally - saying yes we have looked at this and this is what we think and why?

One man's well-reasoned argument is another's let's-set-the-site-up so-it-suits-me-and-fk-everyone-else (imo)

...and people like feck n eejit have account managers to speak to and glean information from. Those of us who 'duck under the radar' dont.

.

Well sayed Sandown. I suppose they're too busy dealing with pc complaints from the chosen ones.

The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

This looks like a very fair system to me Feck.

There you go Feck. Someone who works in the BF PC black ops team has replied to your idea in the 12.33 post.

He must have started after you were bagged for your part in the farcical Cheeseburger Initiative then ;-)

Another fine mess you've got them into toenail.

What would be a suitable time frame for 'the all new liqidity generating premium charge' to change over to 'the liquidity generating premium charge' and finally to 'the premium charge'.

Serious question.

I'd take Coachbuster's advice and take it easy Mr Eejit.

There will always be somebody richer than you, smarter than you, better at gambling than you and whose football team is better than yours. Beating yourself up over this and starting endless 'levelling down' crusades can't be great for your health or your soul.

Shouldn't you be relaxing at your time of life rather than thretting about a bunch of bogeymen?

As it happens, I quite like the idea.

ok lets do it

can we please have less of this sensible "take it easy" advice to the soapdodger please. it always provides me with an amusing release to the stresses of daily life on betfair when i read his frustration ridden posts. keep up the good work soapdodger and keep them angry posts coming.

Coachbuster 17 Sep 00:55


Jesus man Feck , give it up for your health's sake ...you'll end up in the nuthouse .

You have a small point ,but jeez .... life is full of irregularities .

I pay more propotionally for my council tax as a single dude, than the couple over the road ,but i dont spend all year writing on forums making a song and dance about it



He really is a very sad dough peak hunt :)

There will always be somebody richer than you, smarter than you, better at gambling than you

That is very true toenail but they'll still be here anyway after betfair pull the plug on pc regulars. Hopefully your three teams (Rangers, Millwall & Chelsea - aka the axis of evil) will see you through those lean years.

the stresses of daily life on betfair

ROFPML. What happened big boy? Were you unable to close out a £8 bet after a failed suicide attack by Reuben's gardener.

A traders life is a lonely one
he flits from race to race
he gets abused by Feck
then vanishes without a trace.

The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

Is there any more news on this very fair system Feck?

first sign of madness- talking to yourself

I've been talking to myself on here for 7 years now. The fact you've only just noticed suggests you may be in a bit of trouble yourself imo.

Well sayed Feck (imo).

The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

Top normal commission rate decreased to 4%

These new changes still leave the ponces paying less than the rest of us Feck. I'm with you on changing the formula.

A year of this has finally driven Feck over the edge, imo.

Undoubtedly a relief for the edge.

Now, nowl pres. If you don't want to discuss the future please leave.

I'm sorry - it was unpardonable of me to interrupt you in the middle of a conversation with yourself. Pray continue.

FFS Feck, give pres a break.

Sorry Feck (imo).

Worrying

spot on Total Bosman

ttt

Squash the non liquidity providers like they were bugs.

Well sayed Feck. Let's make betfair a parasite free zone. Gambling for the gamblers imo.

After a long time of looking at the stuff that you pump onto the forums that I have concluded about you. I figure that you are a good old fashioned gambler that has difficulty in adapting to new situations and people that are cleverer than you.

Would that be fair?

Alternatively you could be an arber/scalper/skimmer and you are just fishing from your Villa in Barbados.

Mr Eejit's non displayed liquidity venues dissected:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRE6G-ZNS60

After a long time of looking at the stuff that you pump onto the forums that I have concluded about you. I figure that you are a good old fashioned gambler that has difficulty in adapting to new situations and people that are cleverer than you.

Alex, I am continually astounded by the way these 21st century players adapt to the ever changing conditions in the free markets. I truly know that I could never be where these wealth creators are. I'm also astounded by the fact there are so many of them. Who would ever have dreamt that Britain had such an incredible wealth of talent to draw upon?

What was the point they were making in that video toenail? Were the 3 big banks able to see the supposedly invisible offers?

This is definitely the way forward Feck. It would squash those not providing liquidity like they were bugs.

.................................................. ................................_,-~"¯¯"~-,
.................................................. ..................__

Moon Light obviously fears being eaten by these new charges Feck.

Doesn't surprise me Feck.

ttt for Feck.

We don't want this one to be lost during the forum migration Feck.

Too right Feck. Well done.

Feck - f u c k them.

lots of posts on here do not want to upset the status quo (to be fair neither do i really)

All I will say is this to Feck's detractors:
- be glad your offspring don't rely on disability benefit
- pray for having healthy children
- be thankful you don't live in a country like Sudan.
- be grateful your doctor hasn't prescribed chemotherapy.

some people have proper issues.

ttt

This 5% rate is ridiculous Feck. Occassional bettors could theoretically be contributing up to 50% of the REAL liquidity on an event and yet be getting charged a rate reserved for newbies. This all new liquidity generating premium charge would be a sensible way of transferring this injustice on to mon liquidity providers such as middlemen and cheats imo/iyo.

*non liquidity providers

Sorry Feck.

Let's hope the all new liquidity generating premium charge doesn't lead to another walk out Feck. We lost a lot of customers last time. There must have been over 200 died laughing.

ttt for Ghetto Joe

the most important fact to remember is that eejit is an utter no nothing idiot....
enuf said the fool contrinutions are a complete waste of time x

Feck, I've seen your posts over the years without comment.  But, as a market maker, and a stung PCer, I think you may have a point.  A very good point.

Keep up the good work.

ijs, you don't sound very convincing.

Artisan, ?.

Once the float's done and dusted they will be looking to increase profits for their shareholders. They can't increase the commission of gamblers as they provide the real liquidity and they could supply their liquidity elsewhere at a lower rate (remember there's only a handful of them supplying the bulk of horse racing liquidity). They also want to attract more custom to make up for the ones who've left because they've finally discovered they're being cheated and a lower top commission rate may be the answer in that respect. That leaves betfair only one option imo. Bring the charges of the traders and cheats into line with the charges the gamblers are paying. After all, we already know that when they take their famous "liquidity" elsewhere it becomes mysteriously invisible.

This all new liquidity generating premium charge looks like the answer to me Feck (imo/iyo). This could allow betfair shareholders to get their money back before the inevitable gambling exchange comes along and operates at a fraction of the cost as it doesn't require any massive infrastructure to cater for parasites.

Never in the history of the betfair forum has a thread created so much fear Feck.

i was more worried for a short a while by the one in which you said you had quit smoking.

Why does Feck keep talking to himself? Has he finally gone mad?

Is that a rhetorical question?

And Feck says : Who ? What? You talkin to me boy ?

I hear on the grapevine this is "under consideration" Feck. Is the famous liquidity under threat? Where will us gamblers be without our Ferengi friends snapping up offers and putting them back up a few seconds later at a worse price or forcing the market into their waiting close out? I'm so afraid Feck. Will we see another "walk out"?

he is creating the illusion of liquidity jimmy

It seems there has been a recent surge of support for your all new liquidity generating premium charge Feck yet the abuse you suffered over the years because of it would've broke most men. WE of The E. Dead Group salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability.

ThankYOU The E. Dead Group. I think many are confused by the new charge. They don't know if they are on that rate for life and it does seem unjust that someone who took measures to increase their commission generated figure to avoid the old pc will now end up on 40% whereas someone who didn't will end up on 60%. At least there's some logic to the all new liquidity generating premium charge and it does reward those who supply real liquidity. The providers of the famous liquidity in TheUltimateBackslappingToryBoyForum must be tearing their hair out. I hear they're currently comparing the sizes of their willies. As if the universe gives a damn how big their willies are.

tragic scenes as feck finally goes the full king lear.

poor old feck...campained for ages about making people pay higher pc charges.....and now he's at at 40%!

i have read stuff on the forum about churning money over , to get commision up ,can anyone enlighten me ??? ta

why would anyone wilson?