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Dinosaur
02 Mar 07 23:42
Joined:
Date Joined: 17 Jul 06
| Topic/replies: 14 | Blogger: Dinosaur's blog
Hi,

I do hope a Moderator, or better still a Staff member of Betfair, reads this post as I believe the rule applying to 'unmatched bets' is unfair! Perhaps in the interests of fair play and open debate, they'd like to read this post and add a comment.

Tonight, Derby (soccer) were playing Colchester in a League Championship match in the UK. I wanted to place a bet against The Draw just before the playoff, then Back it later should a goal be scored.

As many punters will know, this strategy would hopefully yield me a profit as a prudent 'trader' rather than a speculative 'gambler', if the Back price was later to be greater than the Place bet.

My 100 bet was disallowed under Betfair's rule that i'd exceeded my 'loss limit' despite the fact that my account was/is in credit!

Being relatively new to Betfair and still in profit, I queried this with Betfair's HelpDesk. They were very polite and, of course, helpful in stating that this 'rule' was imposed to stop the compulsive gambler from being, hate to say it, 'compulsive' and exceed his/her 'agreed' loss limit.

I couldn't understand that as my account was in profit, why was I NOT allowed to place a 100 bet? After all, I have over 500 in my Betfair account! Whilst awaiting a call back from the Betfair HelpDesk I looked up their rules governing this situation.

I discovered, amazingly, that 'unmatched bets' are also counted towards the 'loss' total. Doesn't matter IF your account is in CREDIT. If the sum of your 'unmatched bets' exceed your original self-imposed betting limit, your bets during the set 'time-period' are dissallowed.

Without wishing to prolong this debate, I also need to add that this 'rule' only applies to deposits by debit or credit cards and PayPal. It doesn't, as in my case, include bank cheques! My 'limit' was set when I made an initial deposit by credit card. Later I increased my account bank by 500% with a bank cheque! But cheques aren't isn't covered under these 'rules'!

The 'rule' states that if I upgrade my 'agreed' limit, I have to wait 7 days before the new increase is accepted. The outcome was, I was unable to place my 100 bet. After 41 mins of play Derby were 3 - 1 up and the odds on a score had risen to 65 -1.

Needless to say, at these generous odds I stood to make a substantial profit running into thousands of pounds had I been able to Back the draw @ 65 - 1. The only thing that stopped me from placing the bet was Betfair's unfair 'unmatched bets' rule.

All Betfair punters make daily bets which are unmatched! Who amongst us keep a tally of such alledged 'losses'?

Who amongst us would consider that cancelling an 'unmatched' bet which hadn't been taken up in the market place would be thought a 'loss'!

The oucome tonight is I have to wait seven days before my adjusted account is valid. I am allowed to make wagers of 20 or less, but I have to wait a week before I can return to my norm!

Meanwhile Derby beat Colchester by 5 -1, no chance of a draw, which means I would have won thousands of pounds were it not for this unfair rule.

If you too have experienced this problem or simply agree with me that the Unmatched Bets Rule is UNFAIR, than please support me here on the forum by adding your comments.

Hopefully enough voices will will pursuade Betfair's management to change this unfair policy to something accepatable by you, I and Gambler's Anon!

Warm wishes,

Dino :o)
Pause Switch to Standard View 'Unmatched bets' Betfair rule UNFAIR!
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Report ChocolateFireguard March 3, 2007 8:01 PM GMT
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Report The Betf March 3, 2007 8:02 PM GMT
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Report Dinosaur March 3, 2007 8:23 PM GMT
Hi Richard LL,

Thank you for coming back to me regarding my original point which is the 'unmatched bet rule is unfair'.

The rest of you I'm going to ignore as you fail to see the point regarding 'method' betting and this discussion is going round in circles, becoming polarised and boring! Sorry Guys! lol

This 'method' betting is clearly outlined in Stephen's letter and my posts do not require further debate. Still need answers? Read Stephens' letter! I've PROVED to you today, in advance, that you can make profits using this system. If you fail to grasp it's simplistic principles then that's your loss, not mine. Write to Stephen, tell him he's talking crap!

With that I'll wish you all good night and speak to Richard. I'll be back in another thread!

Hi Richard LL,

I'm sorry if I've confused you! I do see Betfair's point to limit liabilty to stop gamblers placing unmatched bets which may affect them detromentally.

Once again, I said I was talking about unmatched bets which are still on your account some time later but still within the set time period. i.e. You could. like I, wish to place a bet today but are NOT allowed to because you execeeded the set self-imposed limit imposed awhile ago and NOT applicable to today!

Bets only have the potential to be matched whilst in play. I am referring to unmatched bets which remain in your account after the event, but which never-the-less effect your betting limit long after the event.

You're correct in your example that; "for instance if you have 1k in my account and already have unmatched bets to that liability, if the system allowed me to place more bets there's a chance they could all get matched, if you place a bet which is unmatched and the event starts, then it can take a minute or 2 for the system to acknowledge that the bet no longer constitutes part of your liability."

I don't disagree with you on this and thank you for your intelligent input.

Best wishes, speak to all again soon!

Dino :o)
Report betfair smell March 3, 2007 8:35 PM GMT
Dinosaur is right. Dinosaur why are you telling people this, please keep it to yourself.
Report Vincent Graviano AKA"Big Tuna" March 3, 2007 9:00 PM GMT
THREAD OF THE YEAR
Report steven34237 March 3, 2007 9:15 PM GMT
this guy must have invested all his profits in crack cocaine...............whats the point trying to talk sense with this muppet?
Report gilardino March 3, 2007 9:37 PM GMT
This is a hysterical fred.

Firstly, bcos this man has bought the FGS BS. What happened today if Portsmouth scored first? What happens if the BF staff** up and don't remove the suspended quick enough after the goal?

Secondly, how naive other "non-believers are" that backing at 1000 for events that have already occurred do not realise this can help you green up. Also backing say the draw at 100 rather than 50/1 will help you green up because the market will always be 100%.

The guy's an idiot but there's something benficial in this.
Report shepie March 3, 2007 10:19 PM GMT
ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i can nearly see his point, the draw at half time is rarely below evens, can only think of a few extreme cases, but only about 1 in 6 0-0 at half time end in 0-0, so u could lay then back the draw, but i gotta say dino, looks like ur over complicating the issue, if u lay something, and u get something in ur favour, a goal say, just green up by backing it, or put a bit more on it to speculate. this stuff is beter than the big dog!!! conesuers of betfair will remember him!!!!
gl with urbets tho! :)
Report flymover25 March 3, 2007 10:21 PM GMT
Hi Dinosaur i'v e read your thread an all that i dont get is why you back 0-0's after the goals been scored can you explain please ???
Report flymover25 March 3, 2007 10:23 PM GMT
also where can i find steves letter ???
Report deejay. March 3, 2007 10:44 PM GMT
i was the 1st to reply at the start of the thread last night
just reread all of it,i blame the goverment for letting him out on the streets
the guy is**ers
Report Overpet March 3, 2007 10:47 PM GMT
This is funny. Dinosaur, you seem to completely misunderstand the whole concept of trading. You CANNOT profit doing what you are doing. You will not listen to the people telling you this so it seems the only way you will realise this is when you go broke. FACT. I'm not trying to put you down, i am trying to help. However please DO NOT reply with the implication that i am not grasping something about this system. Believe me i understand it. And it wont work.

You also seem to think that the other people ridiculing your "system" do not understand it too. Please credit these posters with more brains. It is the simple fact that they DO fully understand this system that they are ridiculing it and you would do well to listen to them.

Obviously laying an outcome and then backing it when the odds get higher is a profitable trade, you understand that. However what will inevitably happen is that you will lay an outcome at low odds, and the the odds will never get higher, and you will lose.

Also please answer the question regarding backing 0-0 when there has already been a goal. There is absolutely NOTHING, no method, system or otherwise, that will or can in any way shape or form whatsoever, make doing this even slightly more profitable, even to the tune of a penny, than not doing it. Please do not try to defend your doing of this. If you think otherwise then you are completely misunderstanding trading AND gambling, and really need your head examining. However, if you disagree then say so, and hopefully someone will explain to you properly.

Thank you for your time, only trying to save you money.
Report Fluffs March 3, 2007 11:03 PM GMT
Dinosaur, the only reason to back an event that can't happen is to free up funds for further trading. If the event is only moments from closing then it is completly & utterly pointless. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
Report viva el presidente! March 3, 2007 11:11 PM GMT
there's a fundamental bit of maths dinosaur is failing to grasp:

I have a system.
Everyone thinks it's stupid.
I am bumping up against my loss limit.

...it surely can't be that hard.
Report Little Des March 3, 2007 11:22 PM GMT
Dino - Your best bet is to go back to the drawing board.

NB Please don't reply with your thanks as I won't be returning to the thread.
Report casemoney March 3, 2007 11:42 PM GMT
yes using BA i usually lay horses and wait for them to fall then back them back @ 1000 for a massive green up
Report Overpet March 3, 2007 11:43 PM GMT
lol
Report holders March 4, 2007 8:56 AM GMT
dinosaur,

if you are still reading this thread, I should say that I had exactly the same problem recently. One quick call and it was all straightened out, so if you need to**this, please call 020 7384 3040.

best of luck,

Yemi
Report BLOOD March 4, 2007 8:57 AM GMT
PMSL great fishing
Report Senor Wood March 4, 2007 9:24 AM GMT
Does anyone know what dude is on about?
Report Diamond_Joe_Quimby March 4, 2007 9:25 AM GMT
:^0
Report fleetbaron March 4, 2007 9:37 AM GMT
just read this thread for the first time, i think that he is taking you for a ride it can't be real.... i say that as i am nearly**ing my self in laughter.
Report tiller1968 March 4, 2007 9:43 AM GMT
dinosoar, can you please supply your trades for todays games so that we can all make a bit of money today
Report Sitting Out March 4, 2007 9:45 AM GMT
This thread is only just behind the money savers for laughing lots.
Report TinSoldier March 4, 2007 9:48 AM GMT
Unbelievable - gotta be a wind up surely??
Report PRETTY IN PINK March 4, 2007 11:24 AM GMT
Poor guy! Reminds me of when I was a 10 year old Trying to convince my dad I had worked out a foolproof way of winning the pools. Hilarious reading for a sunday morning!
Report the witch March 4, 2007 11:43 AM GMT
This thread is worse than the MSE one. At least they understood the principles of trading and just got caught out with the rules. Had it been a normal market they would have been correct. This guy doesn't understand the principles - full stop.
Report Scottyn March 4, 2007 11:44 AM GMT
this is the funniest thing i have ever read on here.
Report Scottyn March 4, 2007 11:44 AM GMT
this is the funniest thing i have ever read on here.
Report im allin March 4, 2007 11:46 AM GMT
It is either a fishing thread or Betfair should ban him for his own good.
Report im allin March 4, 2007 11:46 AM GMT
so good you read it twice
Report IanP March 4, 2007 12:15 PM GMT
Perhaps he has been banned 'cos he hasn't been heard from today but I see someone's had a score on 0-0 in the Bham game @ 1000 so perhaps he's still cracking on !!
Report flatliner March 4, 2007 12:22 PM GMT
Yes 1000 matched 74 lol
Report aziraphale March 4, 2007 12:25 PM GMT
I think he has got confused between laying the draw and then backing after a goal (which can be sensible) and backing 0-0 after a goal (which is never sensible)
Report andrew s March 4, 2007 12:33 PM GMT
IS THIS JOHN FOWLER ?? ALIAS DINO
Report fundamentalist March 4, 2007 12:33 PM GMT
How many baits have been used then?

FCG
Greening up at poor value
Backing an impossible outcome
2 events constitutes statistical evidence

any more?

If its not fishing then geez
Report flatliner March 4, 2007 12:33 PM GMT
I think he,s confused, in the medical sense.
Report Sir Kit Togo March 4, 2007 12:46 PM GMT
This thread cannot be real but it certainly deserves top marks for comedy. Haven't laughed so much for so long.
Report kevo March 4, 2007 12:46 PM GMT
Has "Yourbestmate or "Aunty Poster" reinvented himself as Dinosaur.
Report STEPTOES YARD March 4, 2007 1:42 PM GMT
this must be a wind up - its beyond belief

saying that he might have cleaned up on inter v spartak

if he had backed 2-1 at 3-1
Report Monkfish March 4, 2007 2:13 PM GMT
best thread i've read in ages. Well done Dinosaur
Report Vincent Graviano AKA"Big Tuna" March 4, 2007 2:19 PM GMT
Dinosaur 28 Feb 17:16


Hi Guys,

Thanks for your replies. DoobieDan says devide your profit by the Lay odds? That right? You all agree on that?

As I'm still learning, I'm only betting minimum. Still walking before I run! :o)

On a football match this afternoon, I Backed the Home team then Layed it later. This produced a profit of 50p.

When I 'greened up' it spread the win across the 3 selections @ 35p each. See what I mean? Big mystery!

This means the Lay odds would have to have been 1.39. That right?

Dino :o)

in the space of a week you've gone from winning 35p on matches to thousands of pounds you are a genius this time next month you will have millions
Report The Red Rafalution March 4, 2007 2:29 PM GMT
Absolute genius ...................
Report McLaren March 4, 2007 2:33 PM GMT
If McLaren you're confident that a team has definately won 100%, then that's your choice to NOT green up and accept the consequences.

Regards your next post...

Look back and READ my posts. I said I Backed the Draw after the 1st GOAL, not when the match was 2 - 0 in Chelsea's favour! To remind you, I Layed the Draw BEFORE the match started, then Backed The Draw AFTER Chelsea had scored 1 - 0. I trust that clarifies!


You said that you saw the price on a draw in the Chelsea game go up through 100, 300, 500, 1000 or whatever and "could have cashed in at any time". My point is that backing a draw at 1000 in the 92nd minute with a Chelsea two goal lead would not be an opportunity to "cash in", it would be throwing away profit from laying the draw as the match clearly was not going to end in a draw.

As you now say that you layed the draw and then backed it after Chelsea scored in order to green up then yes this is sensible. But it's not an amazing strategy! Laying and then backing something when the game goes your way is something that everyone on here does.

As for backing 0-0 after a goal is scored to "green up", that is just stupid. That's not greening up as you're already all green! 0-0 can't happen anymore so there is no need to green up a bet you've already won.

This must be a joke, I really don't know why I'm replying anymore. :)
Report Little Des March 4, 2007 2:40 PM GMT
Great advice from Dinosaur.

I''ve just backed a faller at 1000.00 for a tenner. I'm now
going to "green up".

;-)
Report cappo... March 4, 2007 3:40 PM GMT
Heres a chance to make some serious money ,
last year that red nose fame academy was won by the talentless edith bowman ,
mainly because , bein a radio one dj she was able to plug herself all day long , so to speak .this year her sidekick colin murray is in there ,
if anything he is of a higher profile than her as he presents sports shows as well as music shows and also his radio work ,
I backed him at eioght to one ish yesterday and as the show goes on I confidently predict that he will be tradin at less than half those odds.
the amount of support for him will not let anyone else beat him ,
also in this poor attempt at good telly ,
I couldnt believe that mel is five to one ,
this is the only scenario i would be happy to lay her ,
lol ,
live long and prosper

cappo
Report Sitting Out March 4, 2007 3:54 PM GMT
Im confused now the games 2-0 do i back 1-0?
Report The Betf March 4, 2007 4:00 PM GMT
Lay the draw at 1.01 now, then back 0-0 when West Ham go 5-0 clear.
Report PRETTY IN PINK March 4, 2007 4:14 PM GMT
Not stopped laughing since I first read this post! Think the penny has dropped now though!
Report coyotegorgeous March 4, 2007 4:15 PM GMT
I am away to the pub,never haye i read so much nonsense from a punter {dinosaur},Hope he is on the "All murray"show next week ,his vocation is cetainly not punting.
Report SILKY CALLING OBEONE March 4, 2007 4:23 PM GMT
After thinking how could anyone so spectacularly misunderstand the markets i think Dinosaur believes by backing 0-0 at 1000 after a goal has been scored he will get paid on this if the game ends in a draw. He appears to believe if he lays the draw b4 the game and then backs it after a goal or two has been scored and the game ends up a draw any correct score draw will be paid. After the first goal a 0-0 draw is obviously the first to go to a 1000 and that is why he is backing that scoreline. Crazy logic i know but i am sure that is his thinking.
Report casemoney March 4, 2007 4:42 PM GMT
I believe he may be on acid .
Report DJ sunstroke March 4, 2007 4:56 PM GMT
Bet he won abit on west ham game.
Report EarlyBath March 4, 2007 8:21 PM GMT
Great angling by dino
In the West Ham game I laid the draw and when Spurs went 4-3 so I decided to go green on 0--0. Its a great system but sadly doesnt seem to pay out. Any advice dino?
Report wolly babe March 4, 2007 8:27 PM GMT
YOU GUYS HAVE MISSED THE POINT, i know excatly what he means..
first you lay the 0-0, then whens its 1-0 you back the draw, as soon as it goes 2-0 you back sullivan to do the 147, then u back the 0-2 hoping the goal will be dis-alloud due to crowd trouble, then u back the game to be stops because of sleet (in mid july these will be good odds) then go all in on alex ferguson to wear a hat today,,,now u should be green..

i hope its cleared up, or not???
Report Betfair Eddie March 4, 2007 8:50 PM GMT
wolly babe 04 Mar 21:27


YOU GUYS HAVE MISSED THE POINT, i know excatly what he means..
first you lay the 0-0, then whens its 1-0 you back the draw, as soon as it goes 2-0 you back sullivan to do the 147, then u back the 0-2 hoping the goal will be dis-alloud due to crowd trouble, then u back the game to be stops because of sleet (in mid july these will be good odds) then go all in on alex ferguson to wear a hat today,,,now u should be green..

i hope its cleared up, or not???

This last week or so has seen some of the strangest threads ever,thanks for clearing this 1 up.
He was right in what he was saying all along,ofcourse i see it now.
Report Wedged March 4, 2007 10:45 PM GMT
You should all be ashamed of yourselves for laughing at a disabled child.
Report custardcream64 March 4, 2007 11:12 PM GMT
Just read through the whole of this thread , my head is spinning
and im laughing my socks off - no wonder dinosaurs died out .
Report siddyboy March 5, 2007 4:57 AM GMT
great system just like them poxy bubbles DOWN
Report Fugue March 5, 2007 8:32 AM GMT
This system is now available on ebay for 99.99 plus postage.
Report fleetbaron March 5, 2007 9:50 AM GMT
i can't stop lauging
Report Pinnochio March 5, 2007 10:00 AM GMT
The biggest catch ever dinosaur. stocks completey wiped out.
Report Harrys Mate March 5, 2007 11:42 AM GMT
I'm upping my limit to 500K now.
This system is unbeatable.
Back every horse that falls at 1000, and eventually your monkey will turn into half a million.
Also lay all the nil nils in the Prem( it will cost too much to do the whole of the leagues) at around 8 and back them all back at 1000 when a goal is scored.
One day the referee's decision will be reversed and I'll be a rich person.
Wish I could do doubles on them. Just think, 1000 on at 1000. wow thats a lot isnt it?
Report Harrys Mate March 5, 2007 11:43 AM GMT
Extremely good fishing. Can't believe people fall for them.
Report Wedged March 5, 2007 4:20 PM GMT
So it wasn't a meteor that wiped out the dinosaurs - it was verbal diohrrea?
Report Schalke 04 March 5, 2007 6:12 PM GMT
I understand what he means by "greening up" on the 0-0, why can't any of you see it?

If you have 1000 in your account and you lay the lot for the 1000 on a 0-0 lay then you havn't a bolt left in your account. So then when the goal is scored you back 0-0 to green up and release the funds (the 1000) .... this is in fact called "freeing funds", and this is what I am sure he meant.

It would actually make you money to back the 0-0 when it's 1-0 so that you can move on to the next bet.

Havn't read the whole thread but failed to see this mentioned anywhere
Report Schalke 04 March 5, 2007 6:20 PM GMT
ok, just read more . see he wasn't meaning "freeing funds" ....... no idea why you would back 0-0 unless it was purely to free funds
Report redcar March 8, 2007 4:01 PM GMT
ttt
Report Zola's Back Heel April 23, 2007 7:04 PM BST
Bump!
Report Greggles April 23, 2007 9:24 PM BST
Thanks for the bump, I hadn't seen this thread before and I'm PMSL now. HILARIOUS!
Report cdog April 23, 2007 10:05 PM BST
Woah! My computer was being repaired in early March so i missed this thread first time round. What a fantastically funny thread! :D
Report couch potato April 23, 2007 10:05 PM BST
Best wind up of the year. Well done.
Report uncle nasty April 24, 2007 12:28 AM BST
hilarious

he must have a beard and drive a lada
Report UPFRONTGREYHOUNDS April 24, 2007 12:37 AM BST
Anyone tried the greenng up?
Report UPFRONTGREYHOUNDS April 24, 2007 12:38 AM BST
of course, one meant 'greening'
Report NAVILLUS April 24, 2007 8:47 AM BST
News Update From the Fa:.....As from 1st April 2007 any football game ending in a 0-1 scoreline, or a 1-0 scoreline will be backdated to show that it ended 0-0 and any bets that were placed to back at 0-0 when the score was 1-0 or 0-1 will of course be right and thousands of pounds will be paid out to the lucky ONE person in the uk who backed 0-0 when the score was 0-1, or 1-0....this is by order of the fa directed by the mikado.....the pop song there coming to take me away will be playing when the cheque made of rubber is presented.....
Report REGIT April 24, 2007 12:19 PM BST
CLASS
Report lmfao April 24, 2007 1:00 PM BST
backing 0-0 at huge odds when the score is 1-0 makes perfect sense.......


it reduces the commission payable on your winning bet

:)
Report Coachbuster July 7, 2007 12:29 AM BST
hoof
Report caramba January 9, 2010 8:46 PM GMT
ttt, a forgotten (?) classic
Report SHAPESHIFTER January 9, 2010 11:16 PM GMT
Great read.
Report SHAPESHIFTER January 9, 2010 11:17 PM GMT
Reading the "I backed 0-0 after the first goal and if it finishes in a draw, I make thousands."

had me laughing.
Report [x] These checkboxes suck January 9, 2010 11:20 PM GMT
Superb thread
Report slow jamz January 10, 2010 12:45 AM GMT
he makes the FOBT addicts look like pro's
scary
Report flatliner January 10, 2010 1:16 AM GMT
Insomniac tonight, thanks for this, missed it, up with some of the all time classics on the footie forum :)
Report lofty84 January 10, 2010 7:06 AM GMT
classic!!!!
Report Bridgeboy January 10, 2010 7:50 AM GMT
Great sunday morning read. . . . .
Report The Visionary January 10, 2010 10:46 AM GMT
A superb read. All time classic on the BF forum.

Can't believe I missed this firs time round.
Report ELA MANA MOU January 10, 2010 12:50 PM GMT
BRILLANT READ,BEST WIND UP EVER
Report kenny mann January 21, 2015 5:14 PM GMT
very funny thread

Good to see Angoose back.
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