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The Dragon
10 Mar 24 19:20
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Date Joined: 12 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 48,556 | Blogger: The Dragon's blog
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Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- March 10, 2024 6:24 PM GMT
Not a pen v citeh, nor liVARpool, nor varsenal
Report PorcupineorPineapple March 11, 2024 7:54 AM GMT
Considering the PL are so desperate for Liverpool to win the league, they're certainly hiding it well.
Report spyker March 11, 2024 12:49 PM GMT
Anywhere else on then pitch (or an attacker on a defender in pen box) and every ref gives that as a foul 100/100. What's that (as another var apology will surely come) 5 var apologies in total for Liverpool - more than any other team. Thank god people like yhtl continue to use their knowledge not guesswork, be ever so shrewd and continue to use betfair!
Report olddesperado March 11, 2024 1:26 PM GMT
Michael Oliver is as dodgy as fook
On the city owners payroll from his stints out there and whether consciously or subconsciously he won't give major decisions against them unless stonewallers.
Even then he tries front it out 're. Kovicic verses Arsenal.

No way should a prem ref be on nixers from teams owners.
Report olddesperado March 11, 2024 1:31 PM GMT
But I have him down as a wrong'un for some time now and I'm convinced something will come out down the line.
Seems to be controversies almost every game with him yet never gets demoted.
Report olddesperado March 11, 2024 1:35 PM GMT
I believe the sky pundits laughed it off also yet I've seen them spend half an hour on something similar in a meaninglessness game.

There's no doubt city get a much easier ride from them too.
Report sparrow March 11, 2024 2:15 PM GMT
Anyone see the handball which was denied in the West ham v Burnley game?
Report sparrow March 11, 2024 2:27 PM GMT
Report PorcupineorPineapple March 11, 2024 3:09 PM GMT
Yeah, saw the clip.

Agree with the sentiments around Oliver. Refs on the payroll of club owners is dodgy as anything and really undermines confidence in them.

But as with the Burnley one, I think we've reached the stage where so many refs are just not very good now.
Report brentford March 11, 2024 3:57 PM GMT
Would have been a very soft pen and there are different thresholds applied (all be it un-written) to such things in the area as compared to outside because it makes such a crucial difference to a game...

Certainly could have been given and wouldn't have been overturned but as not given on the field - no way VAR should change it...even the one eyed Carragher didn't have any real complaints...be surprised if any apology is forthcoming - certainly shouldn't be...
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- March 11, 2024 4:16 PM GMT
Agree 100% Brentford.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- March 11, 2024 6:50 PM GMT
Liverpool 1-1 Manchester City

Possible penalty: Doku challenge on Mac Allister
What happened: Liverpool won a corner in the 98th minute when the loose ball bounced between Jérémy Doku and Liverpool's Alexis Mac Allister inside the area. The Manchester City forward raised a foot to the ball, with Mac Allister going down from the contact. There appeared to be no claims for a penalty from the Liverpool players, with referee Michael Oliver allowing playing to continue.

VAR decision: No penalty.



VAR review: Mac Allister leans into the ball as Doku attempts to hook it away. The ball touches the body of the Liverpool player first before Doku gets his foot to it, with contact then on the opponent's chest. There are clear grounds for this to be a penalty. A high foot (above the waist) with contact is usually seen as a direct free kick, or a penalty if inside the area. Indeed, if this were in a European league there wouldn't even be a discussion about the VAR intervention.

But this is the Premier League, which wants a higher-intensity game and for VAR interventions to be reserved for only the clearest of errors. That has led to missed VAR interventions far outnumbering wrong ones this season, but the league would no doubt prefer the weight of any errors to be in that direction.

A key factor is Oliver's clear, unobstructed view. If he has seen the high boot, the touch on the ball and on Mac Allister, and has judged minimal contact with the boot not to be enough for a spot kick, then there's not really anywhere for the VAR to go for a review when there's such a high bar.

The VAR, Stuart Attwell, made a lot of Doku getting his foot to the ball (repeatedly saying "plays the ball" and that attempting to win the ball was "reasonable") while believing the collision was then unavoidable. Yet Doku getting that touch doesn't give him free rein to make a high challenge, just as it wouldn't with any challenge. Indeed, contact after a high boot should be an easier decision to give.


Michael Oliver had an unobstructed view of the two players coming together. BBC
"This situation, in all positions on the pitch, is 100 percent a foul," Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp added after the game. "It's 100 percent a foul and a yellow card."

Yet challenges made inside the area are judged to a higher threshold. To say "it's a foul anywhere else on the pitch" has merit, but that doesn't change the fact that the game isn't refereed that way because a penalty is a greater punishment than a free kick. Think of it as the burden of proof; inside the area a referee believes he must be even more certain of his decision as a goal-scoring chance is the result.

"Isn't it [VAR] there for just making the right decision and not thinking how high a bar you have to overcome to find the right decision?" Klopp said. Yet in a game of subjective opinions there often isn't a "right" decision. Many will rightly believe this should be a penalty. But at the same time many ex-players, including former Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher, can rightly believe the VAR was right to not get involved. For one group a VAR intervention is getting the correct decision, for the other it would be re-refereeing a situation where Oliver had a clear view.

With this system of VAR there are always going to be situations where fans of one club, and many neutral observers too, believe there should be a VAR intervention. Perhaps the highest-profile example this season was Newcastle United's winning goal against Arsenal, with Gunners' fans adamant that the VAR should have disallowed it -- yet it was not an error.

It might be a situation where the Premier League's Independent Key Match Incident Panel views that a penalty is the correct decision on the field, but not enough for VAR. Understandably, that's difficult for supporters to get their heads around, but it explains why ex-referees and players can also believe that it's a penalty but not a VAR error.

There have been a few examples involving Liverpool this season. Andy Robertson's challenge on Brentford's Ivan Toney last month was unanimously voted by the panel to be a penalty on the field (coincidentally, the referee was also Oliver), yet it voted 4-1 against a VAR intervention.

Liverpool have also had such judgements go in their favour. The panel said the referee was wrong to give Dominik Szoboszlai a penalty against Bournemouth, and Diogo Jota shouldn't have been awarded a spot kick against Newcastle -- but neither were sufficiently wrong to be overturned on review.



https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/39658346/the-var-review-liverpool-denied-late-penalty-vs-man-city

..
Report spyker March 11, 2024 6:50 PM GMT
not given on the field

It's much much easier to not give a decision and then for the var to use that as a reason not to look at it so what's the point of var in the first place? For your reasoning to work the ref shouldn't give any pens and leave pens completely up to the var.  Rugby isn't perfect but loads of times the tv ref says to have a look and the ref either partly or wholly disagrees with him and guess what the game carries on. In the Prem and not necessarily other countries it seems the refs only refer if it should def 100% be overturned which is just stupid from so many angles.
Have you ever seen someone kick another player in the chest and not get penalised as I don't think I ever have? Weak, poor refs (which the prem is full off) aren't capable of giving correct decisions in or out the box, var just gives them a reason to be even poorer and get paid by club owners for the privilege -  whats that phase 'the appearance of impartiality'?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- March 11, 2024 7:49 PM GMT
Tiote got kicked in chest at sjp

Demba ba got kicked in head,

Nothing given either case.


Explanation above is pretty fair, and expected.


Must be very close to onfield penalty award, but
it's not a var job if ref says he thinks doku
entitled to play ball.
Report TheBetterBettor March 12, 2024 1:32 PM GMT
The lesser clubs never get the decisions in the big games




Funny that ....
You never hear liverpool bleat on about the injustices that forest faced in their game
Report sparrow March 12, 2024 2:09 PM GMT
The lesser clubs never get the decisions in the big games








They always used to say that here in the UK people always favoured the underdog.  How times seemed to have changed.
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