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The Dragon
22 Jun 23 23:39
Date Joined: 12 Mar 05
| Topic/replies: 48,414 | Blogger: The Dragon's blog
tory **** up

get back in and restore what we used to have with our European friends
Pause Switch to Standard View we should get back into the EU
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Report The Dragon June 22, 2023 11:40 PM BST
question time from clacton on sea -red hot toriesDevil
Report mesmerised June 22, 2023 11:46 PM BST
tbh it's like we've never left.
Report The Dragon June 22, 2023 11:51 PM BST
you ask any fruit tree growers, haulage driver owners, hospitality industry  or farmers its defo changed

ficked up the lot of em

let down by the knob tories
Report mesmerised June 22, 2023 11:57 PM BST
was referring to immigration, at an all time net high, they haven't taken back control, the French escort the migrants to English waters and tell them to call 999, whilst the British government pays the French to stop them coming in the first place, you couldn't make it up.
Report The Dragon June 23, 2023 12:41 AM BST
only fools tought brexit was about immigration

it was about right wing Tories getting controlDevil
Report mesmerised June 23, 2023 12:59 AM BST
The whole debate completely centered around immigration, that's what UKIP was all about, that's what forced Cameron's hand, that's what led to Brexit, talk of trade deals and whatnot were lost in the ether. Not all Pro Brexiteers were Tories, some prominent Labour politicians were too including Dennis Skinner, Kate Hoey and life long sceptic Corbyn, even if he said he voted the other way. The sole reason why Farage, Rees-Mogg etc wanted to leave was purely for ideological reasons, self-governance, straight bananas, or for want of a better phrase, little Englanders with Island mentalities. Nobody on the Leave side had any real idea of whether we'd be better off in the long run, they thought they'd deal with that later whilst hoping to get through the exit door as quick as possible providing as much smoke and mirrors in the meantime, what helped them was the incessant doom and gloom merchants on the Remain side, the we can't cope without the EU mantra which just served to play on nationalistic heartstrings as it was always going to be met with 'yes we can'. I'd hazard a guess in the long run, economically, neither side will be much better or worse off, we're still joined at the hip. The upside of leaving is not every single commons debate is saturated with EU talk, if we'd stayed the question will always have been there, the Anti EU sentiment, the division, at least now we'll know, and if we are fkd in the long run, we could re-apply, chances are however it'll be too politically toxic for even Labour to go there meaning the horse has bolted, it aint coming back, Kind Regards.
Report shut up June 23, 2023 3:19 AM BST
Should never have gone in in the first place , so funny listening to the loser Remoaners who do not believe in Democracy
Report second again June 23, 2023 5:19 AM BST
The funny thing was boris and rees mogg ect going on for years about how undemocratic the EU was,unelected EU bureaucrats telling us what to do ,the Westminster parliament was soveriegn take back control ect.Now that the Westminster privileges committee says that boris is a compulsive liar it is a kangaroo court undemocratic ect,this is them with an 80 seat majority they could not take back control of a nursery.
Report sparrow June 23, 2023 7:38 AM BST
The Dragon 23 Jun 23 00:41 
only fools tought brexit was about immigration

it was about right wing Tories getting control

Spot on.
Report Tiger Tiger June 23, 2023 11:01 AM BST

The areas in England and Wales that voted strongest for Brexit were traditional Labour working class areas, it was the working class man that carried Brexit, not the tories, most tory strongholds voted remain.

Socialist Workers Party:

Brexit vote was a revolt against the rich

The central feature of the referendum result was a revolt against the establishment. People who are generally forgotten, ignored or sneered at delivered a stunning blow against the people at the top of society.

The reasons for that rebellion are contradictory, but that does not change the essential character of what has taken place.

Labour MP Diane Abbott was right to say it was a “roar of defiance against the Westminster elite”. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said, “One clear message from last Thursday’s vote is that millions of people feel shut out of a political and economic system that has let them down.”

Labour left group Momentum, which backed Remain, said, “Much of this vote reflected anger in communities which have experienced many years of industrial decline with the subsequent loss of secure employment.

“Many such working class communities have been utterly neglected for years by those in power”.

Remain had the support of the Tories, Labour, the Scottish National Party, Plaid Cymru, the Lib Dems, the Greens and Sinn Fein.

Practically every bosses’ organisation and international finance body, thousands of “top executives” and the leaders of dozens of states, including the US, backed Remain.

Yet 52 percent of people voting backed Leave.


There was a strong class element. A detailed poll by Lord Ashcroft showed the AB social group (professionals, managers, lecturers and teachers) were the only social group where a majority, 57 percent, voted to Remain.

C1s (most white collar workers) divided fairly evenly. But nearly two thirds of C2s (skilled manual workers) Ds (other manual workers) and Es (pensioners, unemployed, people on benefits) voted Leave.

Around two thirds of council and housing association tenants voted to leave.

The Daily Mirror newspaper’s analysis showed that the areas voting Leave had an average weekly wage of £410.47 compared with £459.52 for Remain.

Some people voiced their anger against the system in a racist way, scapegoating immigrants and refugees. This was undoubtedly a factor.

Ukip took 3.8 million votes at the general election just over a year ago. And the mainstream Leave campaign was headed by racists and horrible right wing forces.

But it doesn’t explain the vote, and it is a terrible mistake to see all Leave voters as racists.

There is an insurgent feeling with a strong anti-elitist element at the base of society. Socialists and anti-racists need to direct and shape this, not sniffily condemn it.

The sense of a revolt against the establishment penetrated even the bosses’ heads. Nigel Wilson, chief executive of Legal & General, said the electorate was “fed up of the rich and the elite shouting at them, telling them how to vote”.

Sir Richard Lambert, former Financial Times editor, said, “This vote represents in part the frustration of those who have not benefited from economic growth in recent decades.”

Jean-Pierre Mustier of the asset management group Tikehau said, “This is a massive repudiation by the electorate of the near unanimous view of our economic/financial/business elites.”

London was the only region to vote for Remain, although even in the capital over 1.5 million people voted Leave.

Every other English region backed Leave—by 58 percent in Yorkshire and Humberside, 54 percent in the North West, 59 percent in the West Midlands and the East Midlands, and more than 50 percent in both the South East and South West.

Wales voted by 53 percent for Leave, Scotland voted by 62 percent for Remain.

Just as in many other parts of the world, there is a revolt going on against the people at the top of society.

It can be dragged left or right.

The deep pools of bitterness and frustration across Britain fuelled the Leave vote.

There is a particularly marked association between areas blighted by 30 years of desolation after Thatcherism and a Leave vote.

Almost 70 percent of people in Doncaster voted Leave, and 57 percent in the steel and former mining area of Neath Port Talbot also voted Leave.

In Hartlepool 70 percent voted Leave along with 61 percent in Sunderland.

This revolt against the rich and powerful must be built on.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 23, 2023 11:07 AM BST
The great irony of it all was that brexit was a trojan horse for the rich and powerful to gather yet more and more wealth. Taking back control, sovereignty etc etc were nothing but campaign slogans for the gullible. The real control was handed over to the establishment who would no longer have to deal with pesky EU regulations and laws.
Report brigust1 June 23, 2023 11:37 AM BST
We should never go back. Even before the vote the EU were abusing us while taking our money. When Cameron went to ask for help with his plans for dealing with immigration and the benefit system they told him to sling his hook so he had no alternative but to put it to the people. Ever since then EU has treated the UK disgustingly doing everything in their power to overturn the vote and make everything more difficult for us. Phuk em.
I go to France a lot and where it used to be cheap fuel and low food prices because of subsidies now it is far more expensive than over here.

We should never go back they have zero respect for us and that has always been the case.
Report Llamedos June 23, 2023 12:02 PM BST
Everything RoseIE in the EU, Ye right
Euro PMI data released today

Eurozone Factory Activity Contracts the Most in 3-Years
The HCOB Eurozone Manufacturing PMI fell by 1.2 points from the previous month to 43.6 in June of 2023, missing market expectations of 44.8 to reflect the eleventh straight contraction in the bloc’s factory activity and the sharpest in three years, as the sector continued to feel the impact of soaring borrowing costs. Output sank for the third consecutive month, driven by the worst decline in new orders since October while backlogs of work have already been cleared. Tough business conditions drove manufacturers to cut employment levels for the first time since January 2021 and reduce the purchase of inputs. On the price front, falling demand drove input prices to fall for the fourth consecutive month, translating to a second consecutive decline in output charges. Looking ahead, business expectations fell to a seventh-month low as higher interest rates pressed demand concerns

Uk is slightly down but nowhere near as much as this.

German Economy
Germany fell into recession in the first quarter of 2023, putting Europe's largest economy out of step with the rest of the continent. The seasonally adjusted figures from the national statistics institute, Destatis, meet the technical definition of a recession: two consecutive quarters of economic contraction.

Trouble with Poland and Hungary

Both countries refuse to accept EU imposed policy on immigration, Poland may have a referendum on it
Report rothko June 23, 2023 12:40 PM BST
Totally agree Llamedos

the EU needs to be considerably reformed before any consideration of rejoining. Seems to be stuck in the ideals of the 20th century
What didnt help the vote was the sight of Cameron going around Europe with his tail between his legs begging the likes of Merkel for some give on free movement - it was a pathetic sight and turned a lot of people to vote for Brexit imho
Report barstool June 23, 2023 1:53 PM BST
Covid and the War in Ukrain/energy crises upset all of Europe. North African migration just as bad in Greece and Italy as it is here. Europe full of "refugees" and more to come.

In or out it would have been the same.

World War Three is on the horizon too.Sad
Report Llamedos June 23, 2023 2:07 PM BST
Covid and the War in Ukrain/energy crises upset all of Europe. North African migration just as bad in Greece and Italy as it is here. Europe full of "refugees" and more to come.

In or out it would have been the same.

World War Three is on the horizon too.

Appreciate what you are trying to say but in or out would not be the same.
The EU as from the 8th of June will now be the allocator as to the destination of asylum seekers throughout the EU, hence the forthcoming problems with Poland and Hungary who believe it their sovereign right to decide who comes into there country. If they do not accept their allocation they will be fined for every refugee they decline.
This is not the case for the UK, no matter how badly the UK is dealing with asylum seekers.
Report JPSER June 23, 2023 2:11 PM BST
this is the football forum, p1ss off to the politics forum with this inane drivel
Report Llamedos June 23, 2023 2:30 PM BST
JPSER23 Jun 23 14:11Joined: 23 Apr 22 | Topic/replies: 431 | Blogger: JPSER's blog
this is the football forum, p1ss off to the politics forum with this inane drivel

True really, a bit like posting inane drivel on the horse racing forum about submarines.

JPSER • June 22, 2023 11:27 AM BST
did anyone see the video floating about of the CEO Stockton Rush saying he didnt want to hire 50 year old white guys, and instead wanted a team who were younger and more inspirational.

what a faulty way of thinking

JPSER • June 22, 2023 12:31 PM BST
it baffles me in this day and age of technology that there cant be some kind of device saying exactly where it is, instead of being totally lost. or at least have some chord inside that when pulled would inflate and bring it to the surface.

JPSER • June 22, 2023 2:05 PM BST
what happens if someone farts down there? does it just linger the whole time with nowhere to go?
Report JPSER June 23, 2023 2:38 PM BST
the left wing and the right wing are the same people, like bald men fighting over a comb
Report The Dragon June 23, 2023 2:50 PM BST
fick off jpser this is a good space to explore views
Report flukes June 23, 2023 8:30 PM BST
Another predictable thread from forum's biggest bell*nd and serial loser The Dragon.
Report Tiger Tiger June 24, 2023 12:21 PM BST
FRANKFURT ― Not so long ago, Germany was Europe's powerhouse: wealthy, booming, politically strong. But the mighty have fallen.

And it's not hard to see why this is giving the rest of the eurozone a bad case of the jitters. After all, if its largest member is struggling, it risks dragging the whole lot of them down with it.

Germany is by far the eurozone's biggest economy, accounting for almost 30 percent of the bloc's economic output. It is the largest trading partner of more than half of the EU's 27 countries. Politically too, that has enabled Berlin to call a lot of the shots within the European Union.

But Thursday's data, which showed that Germany has fallen into recession, didn't come out of the blue. It was already among the last in Europe to return to pre-COVID levels when economies started to rebound after the pandemic. And it's that very drawn-out nature of Germany's malaise — as well as an absence of the surefootedness of the past from the government in Berlin — that's convincing experts this isn't a blip.

"A fundamental improvement is not in sight,” Commerzbank economist Jörg Krämer said. All important leading indicators in the manufacturing sector were now falling, he added.

The latest first-quarter growth estimate showed the German economy contracting by 0.3 percent. That followed a shrinking of 0.5 percent in the final quarter of 2022.

Dont tell the romoaners at BBC though who cant seem to admit what is happening in Germany.
Report thelatarps June 26, 2023 10:03 AM BST
Brexit was a protest vote, pure and simple.
To put it in Mick McCarthy language..

'The Establishment put its backside on display in Burtons shop window'

And the British people gave them a right good slap.
Going back to the EU would be a massive mistake.

According to Philip Hammond, former chancellor under Teresa May, the current UK inflation crisis is down to the inflexibility of the Labour market.
i.e. too few people and too many vacancies. Leading to wage rises.

The big problem with Brexit is that it meant all the Poles and Romanians went back home, vacating the sort of jobs.. fruit pickers etc... that Dragon mentioned.

Seems to me we have a ready made supply of replacements with all these refugees lining up on the Normandy coast....
An obvious solution but one which is unpalatable given the political climate right now.
Cant think of any politico brave enough to do anything about it.
Report DIE LINKE June 26, 2023 10:37 AM BST
The great unwashed who voted for Brexit were expected to replace the EU workers in crappy jobs. Quite an ask for some of the "biggest idlers in the world."
Report lfc1971 June 26, 2023 11:03 AM BST
If jobs are ‘ crappy ‘ and employers cannot
find workers then they will have to increase pay and conditions etc
and the jobs won’t seem so crappy … stop whining
Report sparrow June 26, 2023 1:21 PM BST
In 1975 I voted to leave but the difference is I wasn't afraid to admit my stupid mistake.
Report Tiger Tiger June 26, 2023 3:39 PM BST
Only and idiot whould think that you had made a stupid mistake.Mischief
Report sparrow June 26, 2023 3:40 PM BST
Glad you agree tiger.
Report mesmerised June 26, 2023 3:54 PM BST
Most people's lives are not going to change that much in or out. The EU are actually better off without Britain, we were a thorn in their sides vetoing this, that and the other (though mostly voting yes, voting No was more than most nations), they'll miss our financial input but they wont collapse and neither would we. We had 4 opt outs which was more than any other EU country, we were always half in and half out. I remember Cameron, backed up by Clegg, a Pro Remainer, vetoing changes to the Lisbon treaty about a year into his leadership at 2.30 in the morning, they ignored Britain and made amendments to the the act anyway.  Give it 25 years and then you'll really have a sense of how the land lies, not in it's infancy. No political party is going to go there with a Return vote, it'd be far too toxic and risky to build a election campaign on that. We'd have to be really in the mire for that to be a consideration, as it is, the economy is generally ok with no recession expected in the near future according to the IMF.
Report DIE LINKE June 26, 2023 4:26 PM BST
No recession expected in the near future?! Laugh
Report SirNorbertClarke June 28, 2023 10:29 PM BST
Chickens coming home to roost.

Thames Water 14 billion in debt

Woking borough council 1.2 billion in debt

food inflation over 14%

broadband inflation 17.3%

13 years of Tories feathering their own nests has ruined the UK.
Report breadnbutter June 30, 2023 5:41 PM BST
Report The Dragon June 30, 2023 5:44 PM BST
spot on nobby
Report Tiger Tiger June 30, 2023 6:08 PM BST
Nobby - then ferk of to Germany and enjoy the recession, or to France and enjoy the riots.
Report breadnbutter June 30, 2023 9:26 PM BST
Report SirNorbertClarke July 2, 2023 10:09 PM BST
It always amuses me when people refuse to take their head out of the sand.

Brexiteers were sold a dream but the reality is crippling the country.

Pity is virtually no British politician has the guts to call for rejoining the Single Market.
Report sparrow July 3, 2023 8:05 AM BST
There will be a call for the single market by the next election, its just a matter of time.
Report G Hall July 3, 2023 9:54 AM BST
Looking at what is happening in France at the moment it's a case of be careful what you wish for.
Report sparrow July 3, 2023 12:32 PM BST
Too late to be careful now after the last vote.
Report DIE LINKE July 3, 2023 12:32 PM BST
Starmer suddenly no longer wants to have anything to do with rejoining the EU, single market or customs union which must have come to a shock to the FBPE brigade who thought the sun shined out of his a-hole.
Report Tiger Tiger July 3, 2023 2:26 PM BST
It always amuses and annoys me when I read posts by folk who cannot bring themselves to abide by a democratic decision made seven years ago by the British people. Makes you wonder what sort of society these idiots really want to live in. Embarrassing themselves at every opportunity it seems.
Report sparrow July 3, 2023 2:28 PM BST
A bit like some of those those people who voted leave in 1975.
Report DIE LINKE July 3, 2023 2:51 PM BST
Ironically its leavers who are moaning about Brexit these days. Seems nobody thought it through or knew what was coming.
Report Tiger Tiger July 3, 2023 3:07 PM BST
It was thought through, thats why we voted to leave. The EU didnt want us in the first place, or Common Market whichever you prefer, to think that you sparrow are old enough to remember De Gaul and the German Chancellor stating 'The UK will NEVER be allowed to join' and De Gaul using his veto to make sure that it wouldnt happen.

Fed up of Harold Wilson they put toghether a package that was so bad they knew that the UK would never accept it, unfortuantely the idiot that was Ted Heath won the next election and said that he would take us in to the EU regardless of how bad the terms were and thats what he did. 

The Panorama programme of 1975 is an eye opener, if you sprogs out there havent seen it, then WATCH it!! You will see tow LABOUR politicians discussing the pros and cons of the EU, you will be surprised of the views of the extreme left (Tony Benn), the other was another Labour politician Woy Jenkins.

Listen to Tony Benn, he knew!!!!!
Report Tiger Tiger July 3, 2023 3:08 PM BST
Report sparrow July 3, 2023 3:34 PM BST
Tony Benn knew nothing just as Corbyn did years later.
Report Tiger Tiger July 3, 2023 3:42 PM BST
Report DIE LINKE July 3, 2023 3:47 PM BST
Must have missed the bit where they said We will replace the EU workers with Indians, Pakistanis and Nigerians.
Report Analyst July 3, 2023 8:21 PM BST
The Brexit vote to me was a vote by the angry who feel left behind in the last 40 years - Old industrial areas, mining areas, neglected seaside resorts - job opportunities and wages have reduced in these areas. If you dig deep you will find a lot of anti-establishment feelings. In Scotland this shows as support for the SNP (lets leave the Union with the rest of the UK - Westminster does not understand us etc). In England its more anti-Brussels, some of it justified and some of it not.

Myself I would like to see the UK join the Single Market and so avoid all the trade barriers between the UK and the EU that have recently sprung up.

We need to create a country that is more equal and less centred around London and the big Metropolitan cities. No other developed country in the World is so centred around its capital and dominated by its capital. For example the deal we left on was negotiated in London and voted on in London.
Report SontaranStratagem July 3, 2023 8:43 PM BST
I think most will admit it was a mistake to leave by this point

Everything was justified after leave won
Report mesmerised July 3, 2023 10:00 PM BST
Why would the European Union even want the UK back, we were a massive pain in the arse for them.
Report The Dragon July 8, 2023 6:21 PM BST
not when labour get back in power
Report n88uk July 12, 2023 5:45 PM BST
Brexit was driven by things that were never going to change as a result of actually Brexit'ing. Even immigration which was almost certainly the #1 factor has got worse, and I remember at the time saying all that will happen is non-EU immigration will go way up, which is exactly what has happened.

It does really barely matter whether we're in or out anymore, our problems as a country go far deeper regardless. The main thing that has been exposed is any idea that our problems were down to the EU, but they will always find someone else to blame.
Report Try My Best July 12, 2023 9:30 PM BST
The last time I looked Germany was in recession. The right will surge in these places as they are sick of the sight of the corrupt EU
Report sparrow July 12, 2023 10:31 PM BST
Economic forecast for Germany
The latest macroeconomic forecast for Germany.

Last update (15/05/2023)
Spring 2023 Economic Forecast: an improved outlook amid persistent challenges
Germany’s economy is adjusting to the disruption of gas deliveries from Russia and the energy price shock they caused. Industry has proved resilient to elevated production costs and equipment investment is set to recover as full order books boost manufacturing and exports. The labour market is expected to continue its robust performance, leading to a catch-up of real wages supporting consumption. As a result, GDP growth is forecast to accelerate from 0.2% in 2023 to 1.4% in 2024. Public finances are improving as support measures are less costly than anticipated and revenues grow strongly. As a result, the debt level is expected to return to a downward trend.
Report Tiger Tiger July 13, 2023 12:00 PM BST
fook off spuggy, eric is in recession. If it was the UK you would be gloating.

According to the latest revised GDP growth figures, Europe’s largest economy contracted in Q1 2023, as consumption keeps feeling the pressure from higher prices and public spending simultaneously. Following a decline of 0.5 percent in the final quarter of 2022, the second estimate of German GDP showed that the economy, instead of having stagnated, declined by another 0.3 percent in the first quarter of 2023. Given the two consecutive quarters of falling real activity, the German economy entered into a recession in early 2023.

The Guardian!!

Germany has entered a recession, revised official figures have revealed, after high prices took a bigger toll on the country’s economy than originally estimated.

Data from the Federal Statistical Office showed Europe’s largest economy contracted by 0.3% in the first quarter of 2023, compared with the previous three months, when it shrank by 0.5%. The technical definition of a recession is two consecutive quarters of contraction.

A previous estimate suggested Germany had narrowly avoided recession with 0% growth in the first quarter.

The statistics office said on Thursday that while private sector investment and construction grew at the start of the year, this was offset in part by a drop-off in consumer spending as higher prices forced households to rein in spending.

Overall, household spending dropped 1.2% in the first quarter, with shoppers less willing to splash out on food, clothes, and furniture. Government spending also dipped by 4.9% compared with the previous quarter.

The war in Ukraine has unsettled both businesses and consumers, both holding back on investing and buying respectively, which has affected demand. Interest rate rises by the European Central Bank have so far had little influence on reducing inflation, which stands at 7% across the eurozone.

Considerably higher heating costs, despite government subsidies, meant German consumers were holding back on spending on other things.

Carsten Brzeski, the global head of macro economics at the Dutch bank ING, said the overall decrease in Germany’s gross domestic product was “not the worst-case scenario of a severe recession” but was still “a drop of almost 1% from last summer”.

“The warm winter weather, a rebound in industrial activity, helped by the Chinese reopening and an easing of supply chain frictions, were not enough to get the economy out of the recessionary danger zone,” he added.

The Ifo Index – Germany’s most prominent leading monthly indicator, showed a continuing weak backdrop for businesses. In May it sank again for the first time in half a year. All sectors apart from services were on the decline.

The leader of the country’s main opposition party called the economic decline a “wake-up call” for the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz. “It has to shake him awake,” the CDU’s Friedrich Merz told the Agence France-Presse news agency. “The way his coalition is working means many firms doubt in the future of Germany as a location.”
Report sparrow July 13, 2023 1:06 PM BST
Tiger Tiger 13 Jul 23 12:00 
fook off spuggy, eric is in recession.

You need to learn some manners son. Who do you think you are talking to people like that?
Report Tiger Tiger July 13, 2023 1:25 PM BST
And you need to learn English.
Report sparrow July 13, 2023 2:01 PM BST
Oh an English Grammar boy no less!
Report TCat July 13, 2023 6:22 PM BST
No great thoughts either way on Brexit but one problem for Germany is that exports to the UK have decreased dramatically since we left the EU. The reason ? The EU Commission has insisted on blocking trade to the UK. Seems like they have shot themselves in the foot as this has cost Germany more than the UK.
Report DancingBraveTheBest July 14, 2023 9:59 AM BST

Jun 26, 2023 -- 1:21PM, sparrow wrote:

In 1975 I voted to leave but the difference is I wasn't afraid to admit my stupid mistake.

Why are you now afraid to admit your stupid mistake Sparrow.....what has changed??Plain

Report sparrow July 14, 2023 12:33 PM BST
Yes everyone saying what a rip roaring success brexit has been Laugh
Report sparrow July 14, 2023 1:16 PM BST
Report n88uk July 18, 2023 5:39 PM BST
The government in the UK are literally trying to manufacture a recession in this country as they see it as the way to solve inflation. Things like living standards have also fallen significantly more in the UK, because inflation has been higher. Nearly everyone apart from the mega rich will be feeling poorer than they were 3 years ago.
Report Tiger Tiger July 18, 2023 6:50 PM BST
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