Specials - Man City Multiple Trophies

Imagine if Man City bombs and loses both finals. There will be no winner except Betfair - the house takes all - aided and abetted by this prolonged suspension; no trading/arb possible given no definitive statement on how bets will be settled.

If city bomb in both finals, and betfair dont void market the layers win in each market, if betfair void whole market no one wins or loses. But I dont think betfair win in any outcome.

They can only lose, lose faith in their markets that is.

If City bomb both finals they will just take commission off the winners (layers) no different to any other market?

Correct, but if all voided no comiss' so they lose.

If no decision before FA cup final and city win then market should be voided imo, as layers of the treble will be in no mans land.

With no Man City winning one trophy market - only multiple - is another error in set-up ie if one cannot win, one cannot lose either (layer or backer). That's my perception.

I firmly believe this suspension is Betfair bias - they get commission no matter what - given no definitive settlement plan on eventual outcome in an error market set-up. But, could severely compromised players' position.

As it stands Betfair will not re-instate/open market post Man City winning 2 trophies - at the moment. Even that could be reviewed post winning 2 trophies. But, Betfair is not telling us how bets will be settled on:-

a) Man City winning just one trophy
b) Man City winning two trophies eg either EPL/FA Cup or EPL/Champions League
c) Man City winning 3 trophies

No trophy has been decided but no payout for 'layers' as yet.

And thats the one mrkt that should be settled whatever their decision.

Ive done the 2 doubles involving the CL, not touched treble, neither backer or layer, and if both doubles cop I dont expect to be paid. Erernal pessimist

eternal

All bets on the no trophy market are lost.. surely? but these numbers traded are very confusing!

What am I missing???

1.01            £2.00
1.02            £143.86
1.5            £14.00
1.73            £20.00
1.88            £44.00
1.9            £110.00
1.91            £6.00
1.92            £2.00
1.93            £2.00
1.95            £20.00
2            £622.00
2.02            £63.40
2.04            £102.00
2.22            £100.00
2.26            £4.00
2.62            £40.00
2.7            £88.00
2.74            £2.00
2.82            £2.00
2.84            £10.00
2.92            £30.00
2.96            £6.00
3            £9.96
3.05    £50.00       
3.15            £50.00
3.25            £7.60
5.1            £14.86
5.6            £8.00
5.7            £110.00
7.4            £0.78
8            £24.08
10            £208.56
10.5            £10.00
13            £8.02
14            £6.00
14.5    £10.00       
15            £20.54
15.5            £24.00
16            £4.00
17.5            £204.97
19.5            £2.00
20            £10.66
30            £30.12
32            £162.44
34            £1,751.10
36            £185.58
40            £13.04
44            £20.00
48            £4.00
50            £7.29
55            £454.76
60            £867.07
65            £37.90
70            £110.32
75            £30.20
1000            £2.00

From memory the wild high and low figures on "No trophy" ie 1000 / 1.01, 1.02 were at the beginning when when the market opened. I can only presume someone dropped a clanger setting a bot up or fat fingers etc?

If you take them out the real trading started around the Evens marker (slight odds on/slight odds against)...then as City firmed up for Prem the odds drifted out to 60, 70's then market suspended

I firmly believe Betfair needs to take responsibility, and make a definitive decision immediately on re-opening market and/or stating categorically how each individual market will be settled prior to re-opening - succinctly and without ambiguity - before FA Cup Final. This sitting-on-the-fence and dereliction of responsibility hiding behind their terms and conditions ie assumed privilege, cannot continue. This is football not horseracing or any sport involving just one individual; football is a team sport.

All my correspondence with Betfair has been forwarded to Mr Jim Cremin at IBAS as requested. Will update given news.

i think its near a month now since suspended, its ridicilous, and doubt if theyre even trying to sort it out

I firmly believe Betfair must reopen market before FA Cup final, and state definitively how individual market will be settled. Otherwise, voidance of all bets is the only option to remain fair to all players and restore faith in The Exchange; using betfair terms and conditions to suspend as see fit without a definitive reason offered is unprofessional and contrary to the existence of The Exchange.

I think Betfair has suspended market because they have made an amateurish error in setting up market without any proviso eg EPL & FA Cup (only/exactly) to ensure no ambiguity. This is further compounded by the sustained suspension without offering a solution.

A decision from IBAS is worth more than the £25 offered by Betfair as final settlement to my complaint.

trouble is would anyone these days in ibas etc etc, understand the query, doubt it

"voidance of all bets is the only option to remain fair to all players and restore faith in The Exchange"

If lay bets of Man City "No Trophies" which is clear as crystal are voided how is that fair and restores faith in the exchange?
Man City have won a trophy.

As pointed out previously there is no grey area on this option and it should be settled immediately

I understand "no trophy" bet is a loser. But, the market was suspended prior to Arsenal losing at Nottingham Forest courtesy of Betfair; Betfair is making the situation worse with this prolonged suspension depriving players to address position accordingly.

Betfair should just own up, make a definitive decision and move on rather than H]hiding behind "Betfair reserves the right to suspend any market at any time at its sole discretion in order to carry out necessary administration and/or take any necessary action to protect Betfair customers" is bunkum in this instance. This just does not make any sense!

Who is Betfair protecting? The players involved?

IBAS has kindly treating my case with urgency given proximity of culmination of events and period of suspension since 2nd May. Fingers firmly crossed!

Just to clarify... What are your fingers crossed for?

What would you like to happen?

If youre hoping for voiding the market.. seeing this is a gambling site I'd like to offer my opinion of that happening..

void market (everyone gets refunded).. 1000/1

1) A lifting of market suspension immediately
2) Clarification on how markets will be settled given Man City winning a trophy or trophies

The above is to allow players the opportunity to address their position (if necessary), and understand potential outcome. It's not much to ask for. Anything else is a bonus.

My fingers are crossed:-
1) for an immediate adjudication by IBAS
2) for a speedy restoration of markets (if due to Betfair incompetence setting-up markets).
3) advocating Betfair to clarify/expand on what their "commercial decision" is or mean

The present scenario is totally unacceptable for all players. It's too ambiguous.

Fair play... Good luck.

Mr James Ironside of IBAS has earlier today kindly contacted Betfair and urgently provided a submission of my case on info from the email correspondence with Betfair; Betfair has informed Mr James Ironside that they intend to respond to (our) submission by the end of today. 

This unjust, sudden and prolonged suspension is coming to an end (finally).

Still no news from Mr Ironside of IBAS yet despite Betfair intended to respond by the end of yesterday. Maybe Betfair needed more time despite suspension was started on 2nd May. It's 31st May today!

Shocking from Betfair to manage the market like this. Unacceptable.

Did anyone notice a big layer present a few days prior to unexpected and sudden suspension? The big layer was laying loads at much bigger prices even bigger than what were on offer at Boylesport (they had inserted "only or exactly" provisos) mainly on doubles eg FA Cup & UCL, EPL & FA Cup and EPL & UCL? I believe this big layer is a professional and probably a related party of a bookie.

Soon after the markets were suspended. Coincidence?

Betfair has informed Mr James Ironside that they intend to respond to (our) submission by the end of today.

Betfair have fobbed James off! and will look into it, when it feels like it!

'Emiteb', it's disappointing Betfair has not come good with their original intention to respond yesterday; Betfair did inform me that a review on suspension would be made when Man City had won two trophies. I think that could be the reason Betfair did not come good with their intention to respond yesterday. However, I'll contact Mr James Ironside for an update at close of business today to suggest the same to  Mr James Ironside.

But, I'll like to see a lifting of suspension and stakes returning to players given the suddenness of unexpected suspension; longevity of suspension; inability to manage position; lack of communication; definitive flaw and ambiguity of markets without key provisos by close of business tomorrow or before commencement of FA Cup Final.

Send Mr Ironside an email, but he's out for the rest of the day. A reply is expected tomorrow.

Regardless of all this IBAS assistance etc there is no reason why BF should not settle Man City "No Trophies" option immediately. Man City won the Prem fair and square. All layers of this option have won fair and square. All backers of Man City "No Trophies" have lost fair and square.
Why the delay?

If the markets are voided all bets must be returned - regardless. This is only fair to all players; the markets are clearly flawed and poorly set-up. And, betfair being the administrator is the party responsible. At the moment Betfair is shirking their responsibility, obligation and rubbishing their professionalism. But, Betfair is not admitting to this shoddy set-up.

The markets are clearly badly set-up otherwise this sudden, unexpected and prolong suspension without be in existence, period!

Betfair did respond on the same day as submission. They stated the suspension would be reviewed post FA Cup Final tomorrow, but still no stipulation on how the markets would be settled post that event.

And, Betfair decision has been forwarded to IBAS Panel for consideration going forward.

This is what IBAS said: "Betfair informed IBAS they suspended the market due to it being "malformed", as they failed to include Man City to win just one trophy. As you've been informed, they intend to review the situation after the FA Cup Final".

"The case is currently with our Panel, who are aware of the urgency of the situation, but realistically I can't see them being able to force Betfair to do anything before the match".

My $64k question is what is malformed? A screw-up in the ambiguous way the markets have been set-up by betfair? If so, Betfair ought to be wholly responsible. 

I've expressed my disappointment with the intransigence, irresponsibility and un-professionalism of Betfair; they have cocked-up in the setting-up of the markets yet the players have been left holding the "baby", and very possibly incur a financial deficit as a result of their error.

I also asked what is Betfair trying to achieve waiting post FA Cup Final? What is their objective?

The Exchange is supposed to be a 24/7 market, but clearly not in this case. An exception or dereliction of duty using their monopolistic might? Or putting their remuneration percentage over fair-play, integrity and their players despite making an amateurish error in the administering of the markets themselves.

As pointed out previously this was inevitable as if City lose one of the cup finals there is no issue and all bets can be settled. What is annoying is that BF have not settled the "No Trophies" option which is already done and dusted and no grey area

By the way if BF void the markets they can expect a large surge of complaints to IBAS

To my question why Betfair is waiting for the FA Cup Final to be concluded before a review to un-suspend markets I was advised they could be waiting to see who'd be affected, how much they were affected and what the fairest settlement might be. Realistically the IBAS Panel cannot force Betfair to un-suspend markets prior to FA Cup Final.

If only Betfair has indicated how bets will be settled eg Man City winning one trophy; two trophies; three trophies. At least Betfair has admitted to IBAS they suspended the market due to it being "malformed". As such, Betfair should be responsible for any financial disadvantage to players since suspension from 2nd May due to their inept administration and error in setting-up of the market.

Market now open

Yes. Betfair has settled players backing EPL and FA Cup, and 'laying' Man City = No trophy. I think Betfair will be paying out to players backing EPL/UCL, and FA/UCL. But, I cannot be certain unless Betfair stipulates as such.

Surely they must be paying out on all selections that are left if City win the UCL or they would have already settled them as losers?

^^That's my understanding too given their present settlement methodology eg EPL/FA = paid. If Man City wins the treble, the doubles and treble backers will be paid out too; the layers would be losers, and backers of N0 trophy.

But, still backers of double eg EPL/UCL and FA/UCL (EPL/FA already paid out) are still being 'lay' at 5 earlier. Why?

They haven't turned off liability offset, that means people can just keep laying all 3 selections at over 100% and building more and more green. That's either a mistake from Betfair or the market wont be settled as we think.

im surprised not voided myself  except on none or the treble, but well done winners,

Backers of EPL and FA Cup must be happy with their bets settled as winners. Will backers of EPL and UCL be in the same position if Man City wins UCL? This uncertainty is hindering backers about an insurance on Man City next saturday.

totally befuddled by this market now...

Still ambiguous market. Why not sort the wording out for clarity.

I think backers of a treble is clearer, and able to manage position. The betting of the 2 doubles still baffle me eg why 'evens' on offer when Man City?

plenty of examples where market management and integrity are flawed on BF...

I reckon the cashout function is telling people they can cashout for more profit even though they already have a level book, can anyone confirm?

suspended again

My EPL/CL  & FA Cup/CL doubles have been settled as losers .

and yet the double I didnt do was settled as a winner.

So whats happened to " If you cant win you cant lose " as I could only lose, either legitimately by losing the as yet unplayed CL final or as a result of betfairs f*** up.

bets settled at 22.42 last night.

What's going on? Betfair have settled all doubles as losers now. Why did they not suspend the whole book (possibly except "no trophy")?, and open a new book, if necessary? Suspension started from 2nd May --> 3rd June; no player could address their position in this period. As such, Betfair is at fault - 100% - and should be liable for any financial shortcomings.

The only winner was the big layer of generous prices a few days prior to suspension. I think this big layer is a professional bookie or a cohort of a bookie; the big layer of generous prices "mirrored" prices on Boylesport prices but with no "Only or Exactly" provisos. Also, the liability the big player was carrying was humongous and not comparable for a market of this nature.; the big layer exploited the ambiguity of the market for gain, aided and abetted by Betfair.

I think IBAS will need to adjudicate for the inconsistency, lack of clarity, lack of communication, lack of integrity and lack of professional management in the set-up and settling of this market. The market was clearly flawed, ambiguous and iniquitous.

Baffling. They've also added '2 to be placed' on the market, suggesting multiple winning outcomes are possible, but yet they've resettled as though only one is possible. I think they're confused and possibly a junior staff member over the weekend.

I think IBAS needs to step-in. The lemmings at Betfair have opened a can of worms they are unable to address professionally justly and competentently.

I've updated Mr James Ironside on this unsavoury and incompetent managerial behaviour of Betfair Football team. Utterly tosh!

I haven't been involved in the market but it's outrageous. In the rules they needed to just write "which are the exact trophy combinations that City will win" or something of the likes. Which ones they will win actually can lead many, fairly, to believe Prem and FA Cup is a winning double opposed to losing one. Why they've taken ages to sort this out, and then muck it up is very strange.

Incomprehensible and incompetence from Betfair Football team. After a month of unexpected & prolonged suspension this is the only decision Betfair can come up with. It defies logic; the description of its department defies logic! Football Team, my foot!

The only winner is the big layer who descended here a few days prior to its suspension offering generous prices mirroring Boylesport prices but without the all-important 2 provisos ie "Only and/or "Exactly". Now, even treble backers will lose if Man City bombs next saturday. The only winners will be layers of "No Trophy".

The present decision is integrity, professionalism and equity not prevalent at Betfair. bet here at your own peril. Betfair is judge and jury, hiding behind their "right" to suspend any event/book if they so wish eg on a whim. Pathetic!

no problem  with treble backers  losing if city do lose, the same with layers of nothing winning, its the other scenarios thats worrying, im not in this market, but when i did look at it i understood what it meant tbh, but 100% agree its been handled pathetic and those scenarios should be voided

I totally agree. Some players could be financially disadvantaged because of the ambiguity created as a result of the unprofessional set-up and management of the market. What made matter worse was the settlement decision adopted post suspension despite a-month to come up with one that is equitable and acceptable.

By the way what is the "2 to be placed market"? Players opened to further liability, etc?

The sh1te market is suspended again. Betfair Football team are absolutely clueless and professionally inept.

"which are the exact trophy combinations that City will win"

This was my understanding of the market to begin with..

Only when others suggested there could be confusion, did I even consider it...

reopened

Now my account is showing nearly (-£200), yes negative. I'd cashout at £163.81. No doubt cannot withdraw given -balance post cashout.

What the feck is going on? The muppets at Betfair Football team must be morons of the highest order.

Yesterday soon after lifting of suspension I'd trade my "Green" with backers of EPL/UCL and FA/UCL. My cashout has changed. It's £147.47 now (from £163.81).

How the feck did that happen? I did not trade!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anything showing on your acct statement on this market

IBAS need to step-in asap. The clueless morons at Betfair Football team are digging a deeper hole to bury themselves the longer this market is in suspension or operation.

Only one option left. The morons at Betfair Football team know precisely what it is. It's their pride (or stupidity) is stopping them from doing it. Pathetic!

Yesterday Betfair paid out on EPL & FA CUp. As such, I withdrew the money - I do not trust Betfair with money overnight in account; funny things have been known to happen fairly regularly eg phantom bets (inside job) on spurious bets overseas.

The instigator of this farce is Betfair Football Team, and Betfair Football Team only. I'll send an email to Mr Jackson CEO of Betfair detailing the incompetence, the unprofessionalism and disdain Betfair Football Team has managed and set-up this market, and the disdain treatment of players affected as a result of their actions eg unexpected, suddenness and prolonged suspension of a supposed 24/7 market without any communication except Betfair Football Team has the right to do so if they so wish.

I'll also update Mr James Ironside of IBAS on their change of method of settlement of bets within hours of lifting and then re-suspension of market.

shocking but not surprising from bf. epl and fa cup still available to back at 7/2 which is a clear winner according to the rules stated

Offering odds on an event thats already decided, nothing short of fraud.

I honestly don't want to be rude... But.. You're either a stroke puller or you're a bit thick. imo.

That double's already been settled ! As a loser. So why leave it up as an active market ?

the epl fa cup cannot have been settled as a loser , thats wont be known till after next saturday

According to impossible123's 10.35 post it it has been settled as a loser. I've no idea if that post's correct or not as I had no bet on it so have no way of knowing.

oh yes just seen that post now, God knows whats going on

EPL/FA settled as a winner immediately post suspension. Then a loser hence my negative account balance. Betfair acknowledged and accepted the market was "malformed" and that was why the market was suspended for such a long period suddenly an unexpectedly. Thus denying players of managing their position.

The major difference and special factor about The Exchange is time progressing to event. The longer the time the bigger the price usually as it was in this case. With suspension from 2nd May (I partook on 18th Apr) till 3rd June after Arsenal and Man City already won 2 competitions, and a finalist for a 3rd on saturday this "malformed" market engineered by Betfair is wholly responsible for the position of every player given adjustment/management was not available.

It's also clear Betfair Football Team has been incompetent and unprofessional in the managing and setting-up of the market. They have also been incompetent in the settling of EPL/FA as winner then rescinding it as a loser; immediately after lifting of suspension post FA Cup Final EPL/UCL and FA/UCL were also available to back or lay.

Given the details above how can Betfair Football Team not responsible for the sh1t they've created and put players under. An email to Mr Jackson CEO of Betfair is inevitable given the incompetence and disdain to players Betfair Football Team has shown here.

Sorry, I've forgotten to mention 3 versions of Man City (possible) trophies on the same page before one logs in. This is new. I've read them and they are as vague as the paint of the hazard and giveway lines on a disused/abandoned road.

Sometimes I wonder if these badly worded markets
are set up on purpose by disgruntled staff to
cause maximum chaos.


Why would they even allow this to be out of control
for so long.


Whatever the outcome now it's an absolute disgrace


Good luck all.

I informed IBAS about the inconsistency of Betfair settlement of bets immediately post suspension eg EPL/FA = winner/paid; market opened and trading resumed. Soon after, suspended again; settlement decision (EPL/FA) was rescinded.

This is the latest from Betfair to IBAS: "We cannot make a decision until after Champions League Final. We want to try to impact the fewest number of customers as possible".

Interpret how one likes. It seems Betfair is moving the goal post once again. Buying more time perhap?

I'm prepared to close my account after this episode, and go grey. This's been so badly handled it's becoming farcical. I thought Frank Spencer was ridiculously accident prone. Betfair Football team could surpass that multiple times.

ibas is useless  as well , sorry to say this Imp, but they dont give a ****, looks like the big player who layed the doubles  and backed with spoilsport is probably betfair itdself, this really stinks

Surely Ibas would be all over it based on the length of time the market was suspended.

Ibas has ruled against betfair before.. Gary jules xmas
No 1 was first one I saw.


If betfair can't work out their own rules for such a long
time then how could their customers (us) be expected
to understand the wording used to frame the markets.


I've not had a bet on this, but once again good
luck to those that have.

I understand where you are coming from "yhtl" but I think IBAS would like to give Betfair every possible opportunity to put this right themselves; Betfair has already admitted their market was "malformed" - their own description. As the manager, they are wholly responsible; the sudden, unexpected and prolonged suspension without communication or offering an explanation to players;  the settlement then rescindment of a double event bet - a string of errors.

As such I believe post Champions League Final the Panel at IBAS will step-in if no reasonable decision is taken to resolve this dispute of their own making. The Panel have access to all my emails to Mr James Ironside including how my present negative account balance has arisen. I was also informed Betfair "will look at my account with a view to refunding any losses incurred due to not being able to manage my position"; I'd refused to trade despite green immediately post lifting of suspension. I just want a level playing market not a suddenly prolonged suspended one.

I believe Betfair must be held responsible for any player who incurs a loss not being able to manage their position due to the suspension of a "malformed" market with Betfair as manager.

Anyway, another 5 more days of waiting. Regardless I'd like to put this behind me. If not resolved reasonably I'd close my account, and go grey.

Yes betfair should put it right.

What's happened to Man City Specials? I think it's been pulled - it's gone. Am I wrong?

NO STILL THERE

Yes. It just reappears on my screen. However, my cashout has changed again. It's gone back up to £163+ as immediately after FA Cup Final. But funny though. The 3 versions of Man City Specials are only visible prior to log-in.

The management style at Betfair is truly bizarre. It lacks professionalism and know-how; passing-the-buck and dereliction of duty aplenty.

No cashout available.

The Man City Specials are over. How has the suspension affected you as a player? Has anyone been financially negatively affected as a result of the suspension? If so, I'm sure IBAS would like to see from you as the market was "malformed" - Betfair's description. As Betfair was the compiler and administrator Betfair would be solely responsible for any shortcoming incurred by players.

As such Betfair would need to put it right.

My account has been put right, and all my bets on that market have been voided; even steven - my desired outcome. It's much better than the £25 offered as final settlement.

I firmly believe IBAS esp Mr James Ironside played a pivotal role in achieving this sensible and satisfactory result.

Got to feel for Alan Rickman, Bernard Manning and Eddie Large.

Lived a long life to see many many man city lows. But didn't live long enough to see the man city highs.

Thats the lottery of being a football fan I suppose

were the treble voided as well

No elise, the treble was paid out correctly as a winner

thanks

Nothing was voided... Is my understanding.

All the doubles were settled as losers; only winner was the treble and no trophy. However, because of the intervention of IBAS all my bets were voided and stakes returned as a result of the "malformed" market, and inability to manage position given prolonged suspension.

I suggest anyone out of pocket for the same reasons as mine ought to contact IBAS. A good chance the same outcome as mine as there's a precedent.

it's back for 2023/24. They've gone about it a bit differently this time

https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/football/market/1.216677345

Indeed. But, vastly different and much clearer. I think Man City will win only one trophy ie EPL. But, I ain't bothering in case Betfair takes it upon themselves to suspend market again for some spurious reason. Once bitten, twice shy esp with Betfair.

yes, how many trophies will man city win i 2023/24 season, epl, league cup, facup, champs league,

champs league or europa lge i should have said