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sparrow
13 Oct 21 10:35
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Date Joined: 20 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 41,034 | Blogger: sparrow's blog
We came for the football. What we got, with the anthems still fresh, was 10 minutes of violent culture clash in the Wembley seats. This was a tableau of viciousness played out via the fists of Hungary’s travelling ultras and what looked, at times, like a lone Metropolitan police officer waving his (massively outgunned) baton of liberal justice.

Ultra-nationalist football thugs versus the Met. And it’s live! It was a dismal, toxic, at times surreal night at Wembley Stadium. At 7.45pm England’s players kicked off this Qatar 2022 World Cup qualifier to the usual hopeful, tinny cheers. By 7.48pm, the first fists were being thrown in the Hungary end. By 7.50pm the police had arrived in the stairwell above the main mass of away supporters and begun an attempt to force them back.

Fast forward another five minutes of full-contact free-for-all and the Met, punched, kicked and swarmed by superior numbers, had retreated back to the concourse. And so it came to pass that with the game itself barely started the away support had created a kind of Hungarian embassy in the Wembley seats. The flag will fly. This patch of soil is ours.

At half-time the police tweeted a statement. Shortly after the start of the game officers had entered the Hungary end to arrest a spectator for “a racially aggravated public order offence”. Before kick-off the England players had taken the knee. It drew an energetic reaction in the Hungary section. A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse.

“As the officers made the arrest, minor disorder broke out involving other spectators. Order was quickly restored and there have been no further incidents at this stage,” the statement continued. This is only partly true. Order was not restored. Or at least, not the order of the Met, but a little taste of alt-right dictator-culture staking its flag in the London Borough of Brent.

To their credit, the police attempted to enforce the law here. This was an attempt, undermanned and overwhelmed, but also undeniably brave, to impose the principle that racism is a crime in this country. At the same time it seemed odd even before kick-off that there was so little in the way of police presence, so little feel for the occasion and for the reputation of the visitors. What did they think was going to happen here, wading in to that 2,000-strong end in a small luminous-jacketed platoon?

Some will ask why, given Hungary were ordered to play their last home game behind closed doors for abusing England’s black players, it was then deemed acceptable for thousands of Hungarians to gather to watch football in London. Football makes noises about regulation, about saying no to racism.

Its governing bodies voice their shock every time, all the while cosying up to the nearest seedy dictator. It is a risible and insulting pretence.

The violence had started when Hungarian supporters clashed with a group of stewards. Stewards are not security guards. These people are there to manage the crowd and to help with the flow. Twenty to 30 police appeared at the top of the stairwell and were soon thrashing at the crowd with batons. The Hungarian fans surged, swarming around these insurgents in their luminous jackets. After the deserved criticism the Met have taken over recent horrific events, the internal culture of the force, failings of management, this will draw little sympathy from some. Could they not just flag down a bus?

It is worth bearing in mind who was on the other side of that line. Viktor Orban has weaponised football as a statement of personal power, and also as a muster point for an aggressive young male cultural militia. There was something jaw-dropping during the summer’s Euros at seeing assorted English TV pundits gushing, presumably out of ignorance, at the thrill, the warm feelings inspired by seeing men in black shirts punching the air and projecting their own kind of aggressive nationalism. Just great to see the crowds back, eh?

Here, that early incident seemed to overshadow the game. Hungary scored midway through the first half, the signal for a huge green smoke bomb in the away end. When England equalised there was some brief alarm at attempts on all sides to clamber over the security tarpaulin, but thankfully it fizzled out. By the final whistle reports suggested the police had arrested 40 Hungary fans, and were waiting for reinforcements to arrive to remove them from the stadium.

For Wembley this was another bruising night. The Euro 2020 final brought its own kind of domestic meltdown. Perhaps you could try to explain that away as a by-product of lockdown desperation, given fuel by corner‑cutting security and shoddy planning. Cut it back. Squeeze the margins. Hope for the best. The reality of England in 2021 went steaming right though that illusion of order, splintering it like a cardboard western set. This was something else. Welcome to the world, Wembley Stadium. It is, make no mistake, a little dark out there.
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Report Life-Lucky October 13, 2021 11:05 AM BST
What?
Report wolf3011 October 13, 2021 11:50 AM BST
Was that from the Guardian Sparrow? Incidentally wc qualifiers should be scrapped anyway, they're boring with the result a foregone conclusion- I don't know what minnow team En ger land are playing and don't care. I wouldn't tune in to watch Wolves play the dog and duck inn which is the equivalent of England vs Andorra yet they keep televising these ridiculous uncompetitive spectacles. I didn't even know they played Hungary till I saw this thread
Report sparrow October 13, 2021 12:48 PM BST
Life-Lucky 13 Oct 21 10:05 
What?





An interesting analysis.
Report lfc1971 October 13, 2021 12:53 PM BST
The England team shouldn’t be provoking violence , stop kneeling
Report sparrow October 13, 2021 1:07 PM BST
Provoking violence.......you actually think that?
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 1:32 PM BST
lol yes they literally are provoking the crowd

what the **** are they kneeling for?
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 1:33 PM BST
"A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse."

there you have it folks

it's racist to oppose players taking the knee

also one fan was arrested for saying something racist

incredible to think this is still happening in 2021
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 1:34 PM BST
it is clearly a gesture that makes many people angry

why are they doing it?
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 1:39 PM BST
taking the knee is unrealted to waht the ultras in the stands were doing

but if you accept that, you must also accept that racism was not central to the troublle

these are hardcore ultras / some are prbably literally proper hooligans
Report Life-Lucky October 13, 2021 1:48 PM BST
I'm reminded of Stalin's 'useful idiots'. Over & out
Report mecca October 13, 2021 1:54 PM BST
I'm guessing that whoever wrote that article is relatively young... coz if they were around in the '70s, they would be cowering in a bunker every Saturday afternoon if they lived within 20 miles of a football ground
Report lfc1971 October 13, 2021 1:54 PM BST
The England team seem determined to stir up trouble wherever they go
Unless it’s in Saudi or some other he’ll hole of course
Then they behave themselves
Don’t be so rude when visiting Hungary
Report sparrow October 13, 2021 1:57 PM BST
70s?  Its more like the 1930s these days with all this hate around.
Report lfc1971 October 13, 2021 1:59 PM BST
Tell the police to keep their noses out - that was the section for Hungary’s fans
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:06 PM BST
Can't these players see the irony of taking the knee, whilst simultaneously trying to qualify for a Tournament that's being held in a country with appalling human rights? Modern footballers really are thick, greedy tw@ts.
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:14 PM BST
You  need to get your facts right Sparrow instead of swallowing everything the MSM tells you. This from an England fan at the game.

I was there above the melee, here is exactly what happened, the England team knelt, the no kneeling banner went up, a snatch squad from the police went in to get it with batons drawn,  there was no bother at all before that happened, they clubbed two people, fans went mad, end of story. They may have a history of racist behaviour, we saw none, their fans reacted to being attacked by the police
Report mecca October 13, 2021 2:18 PM BST
That sounds more like it...... reminds me of the terrible way cyst person that put a message on Rashfords mural.

Turned out to be nothing Racial about it at all
Report sparrow October 13, 2021 2:25 PM BST
Yes clearly those nice Hungarian folk were provoked and attacked by our nasty policemen.
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 2:26 PM BST
"At half-time the police tweeted a statement. Shortly after the start of the game officers had entered the Hungary end to arrest a spectator for “a racially aggravated public order offence”. Before kick-off the England players had taken the knee. It drew an energetic reaction in the Hungary section. A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse."

this paragraph shows the Guardain clearly considers opposition to taking the knee to be racist

once you realise that you know you are not reading something by an objcective journalist
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:26 PM BST
Two tier Policing is in place in the UK. You only had to see how the Anti-Lockdown protesters were treated compared to how the "Insulate Britain" protesters are being treated. Then how the MSM have covered both with the agenda they like to push.
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 2:28 PM BST
not sure what the "racially aggravated public order offence" was

but the Guardian clearly considers the banner and booing the knee to also be racist hence use of "repeat offenders"
Report Giuseppe October 13, 2021 2:29 PM BST
and the sarah everard vigil

police got enormous critcism for that despite it being against covid rules
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:31 PM BST
You've already made up your mind, Sparrow. Personally, I like to be a little more subjective when I read things and I like to get all the facts before I come to any sort of conclusion.
Report tobermory October 13, 2021 2:33 PM BST
to impose the principle that racism is a crime in this country

Since when was it a crime to have racist opinions?
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:36 PM BST
Sounds like a made up "offence" to give Police even more power to act like bullying thugs.
Report tobermory October 13, 2021 2:37 PM BST
Advocates of knee taking keep telling us it's purpose is to stop racism. Then complain that there is more and more racism in response to the kneeling.

Maybe it's not working...Confused
Report sparrow October 13, 2021 2:39 PM BST
I knew when I posted this that the majority would support the Hungarians and the amount of hate in the social media is in my view a disgrace. My mind is made up by that Whippin Piccadilly. I thought I had seen the end of all this nonsense in the 70s but at least we didn't have the social media back then.
Report Whippin Piccadilly October 13, 2021 2:50 PM BST
One thing having a different opinion, quite the other giving out racial abuse. It now looks like the Police & MSM are saying having an opposing view is akin to racial abuse. Confused
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- October 13, 2021 2:54 PM BST
Racists love the fight.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- October 13, 2021 2:55 PM BST
More racism = kneeling for longer

Hey ho
Report tobermory October 13, 2021 2:56 PM BST
They will be kneeling for their entire careers
Report LoyalHoncho October 13, 2021 2:57 PM BST
You have to laugh - "To their credit, the police attempted to enforce the law here".  It hasn't been proved AT ALL that any offences took place - it is at present all allegations.  It;s disgusting how this is being lied about.  Never in my lifetime have I seen police in a football crowd weighing in to innocent fans with batons and sticks designed to cause severe injury.
It is disgusting and we are in deep, deep trouble now as a nation that we have a police force willing, and allowed, to act in such a way.
Report LoyalHoncho October 13, 2021 3:03 PM BST
Well done Whippin Piccadilly!  In my view it is clearl the police planned this incident and that btich Easingham with her accusatory grimaces and feigned disgust as she presented it in as bad a light as possible!  Disgusting!  It was obvious these fans were anything but hooligans and were provoked.

Whippin Piccadilly13 Oct 21 13:14
You  need to get your facts right Sparrow instead of swallowing everything the MSM tells you. This from an England fan at the game.

I was there above the melee, here is exactly what happened, the England team knelt, the no kneeling banner went up, a snatch squad from the police went in to get it with batons drawn,  there was no bother at all before that happened, they clubbed two people, fans went mad, end of story. They may have a history of racist behaviour, we saw none, their fans reacted to being attacked by the police
Report brentford October 13, 2021 3:54 PM BST
probably not the smartest bit of policing to try and make an arrest in amongst of group fairly hard core Hungary fans but interesting that so many are keen to defend a group of supporters that contain a significant and very high profile group of right wing extremists...
Report wolf3011 October 13, 2021 4:09 PM BST

Oct 13, 2021 -- 9:54AM, brentford wrote:


probably not the smartest bit of policing to try and make an arrest in amongst of group fairly hard core Hungary fans but interesting that so many are keen to defend a group of supporters that contain a significant and very high profile group of right wing extremists...


and the people putting Guardian articles of "racism" which involves criticising the silly kneeling before football matches are "extreme left wing extremists" that are far more damaging. If people want to kneel continually why not attend church and there you can kneel all day long?

It's hardly surprising though is it where the act of flying a union jack over an establishment is deemed to be racist in 2021 Britain that the usual suspects are waving their fists in rage again having a fit at the nasty racists in MSM. These same people will be keeping a straight face where rainbow corner flags are fluttering away at St james park with knee taking whilst the rest of us are bursting into laughter at what an insane society we have become.

Report wolf3011 October 13, 2021 4:11 PM BST
Perhaps police resources should be directed at actually keeping streets safe rather than hunting down someone on twitter putting a banana emoji up
Report LoyalHoncho October 13, 2021 6:24 PM BST
Excerpt from title article reproduced above.
"A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse".
Who is this bstrd writing this chit?!  Who the fcuk does he think he is slating people for expressing a perfectly valid view by peacefully waving a home made banner when he never uttered a word about left wing morons disturbing the peace by destroying public statues or vandalising street names or vilifying national icons like Churchill?  How the fcuk is displaying a "no taking the knee banner" deemed as racist abuse?
We've all let this happen.  We need to be taking responsibility and fighting back against this fascism - and that is what it is.
Do what we say or suffer the consequences is the message of this movement and it has to be stopped!
Report tobermory October 13, 2021 6:35 PM BST
Who is this bstrd writing this chit?!

Without checking on the Guardian I would guess Jonathan Liew.
Report LoyalHoncho October 13, 2021 6:49 PM BST
Thanks.  And yes you're right - I should have checked myself.  Love
Report tobermory October 13, 2021 6:53 PM BST
Ha Ha, he really does strain too hard with the wokeness, very recognizable.

He is actually OK when he just sticks to football
Report CLYDEBANK29 October 13, 2021 7:13 PM BST
Let's get things into some perspective.  English hooliganism in the 80s was far far worse than anything that happens today.  It took 39 deaths before English clubs got banned and our national team was never banned.  We as a nation are the last nation in the world that should be calling out for bans for opposing teams.  We can give advice on our experiences tackling verbal abuse and violence, but we are hypocrites extraordinaire if we start taking the moral high ground and telling other organisations what sanctions they should impose.
Report LoyalHoncho October 13, 2021 7:18 PM BST
Even at the height of "English" hooliganism I do not recall police lying in weight or being prepared WITH batons, clubs and truncheons.  Ever.  For my money this was an amateurish premediated police act to somehow take attention away from something else.  No doubt in my mind about that.  Dick's hand is in this somewhere.
Report brentford October 13, 2021 7:34 PM BST
Do you mean domestically LH ?

The Italian police in full riot gear from the off waded in fairly indiscriminately to the England fans in 97 ironically when Italian fans had been lobbing things in to their area of the stand..
think even our politicians got involved in that one such was the ridiculous nature of it..
Report Deptford October 13, 2021 10:27 PM BST
I have been attacked by old bill for no reason at all at football many times, and seen it numerous times, filth.
Report shiny new shoes please October 14, 2021 12:23 AM BST
Sunshine, Lollipops And Rainbows
Report Corky October 14, 2021 3:14 PM BST
Hungarians should have wrapped themselves in pipe lagging and glued themselves to the seats. Old Bill would have have brought them a cuppa and asked how they were.
Report LoyalHoncho October 15, 2021 12:43 PM BST
I was referring to in the UK.  You been attacked with batons and sticks Deptford?  I've been in a few nasty situations but have never seen that.  Police horses are their weapon of choice up here and always have been.  They sort everybody into a scatter.
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