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sparrow
13 Oct 21 10:35
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Date Joined: 20 Jul 02
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We came for the football. What we got, with the anthems still fresh, was 10 minutes of violent culture clash in the Wembley seats. This was a tableau of viciousness played out via the fists of Hungary’s travelling ultras and what looked, at times, like a lone Metropolitan police officer waving his (massively outgunned) baton of liberal justice.

Ultra-nationalist football thugs versus the Met. And it’s live! It was a dismal, toxic, at times surreal night at Wembley Stadium. At 7.45pm England’s players kicked off this Qatar 2022 World Cup qualifier to the usual hopeful, tinny cheers. By 7.48pm, the first fists were being thrown in the Hungary end. By 7.50pm the police had arrived in the stairwell above the main mass of away supporters and begun an attempt to force them back.

Fast forward another five minutes of full-contact free-for-all and the Met, punched, kicked and swarmed by superior numbers, had retreated back to the concourse. And so it came to pass that with the game itself barely started the away support had created a kind of Hungarian embassy in the Wembley seats. The flag will fly. This patch of soil is ours.

At half-time the police tweeted a statement. Shortly after the start of the game officers had entered the Hungary end to arrest a spectator for “a racially aggravated public order offence”. Before kick-off the England players had taken the knee. It drew an energetic reaction in the Hungary section. A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse.

“As the officers made the arrest, minor disorder broke out involving other spectators. Order was quickly restored and there have been no further incidents at this stage,” the statement continued. This is only partly true. Order was not restored. Or at least, not the order of the Met, but a little taste of alt-right dictator-culture staking its flag in the London Borough of Brent.

To their credit, the police attempted to enforce the law here. This was an attempt, undermanned and overwhelmed, but also undeniably brave, to impose the principle that racism is a crime in this country. At the same time it seemed odd even before kick-off that there was so little in the way of police presence, so little feel for the occasion and for the reputation of the visitors. What did they think was going to happen here, wading in to that 2,000-strong end in a small luminous-jacketed platoon?

Some will ask why, given Hungary were ordered to play their last home game behind closed doors for abusing England’s black players, it was then deemed acceptable for thousands of Hungarians to gather to watch football in London. Football makes noises about regulation, about saying no to racism.

Its governing bodies voice their shock every time, all the while cosying up to the nearest seedy dictator. It is a risible and insulting pretence.

The violence had started when Hungarian supporters clashed with a group of stewards. Stewards are not security guards. These people are there to manage the crowd and to help with the flow. Twenty to 30 police appeared at the top of the stairwell and were soon thrashing at the crowd with batons. The Hungarian fans surged, swarming around these insurgents in their luminous jackets. After the deserved criticism the Met have taken over recent horrific events, the internal culture of the force, failings of management, this will draw little sympathy from some. Could they not just flag down a bus?

It is worth bearing in mind who was on the other side of that line. Viktor Orban has weaponised football as a statement of personal power, and also as a muster point for an aggressive young male cultural militia. There was something jaw-dropping during the summer’s Euros at seeing assorted English TV pundits gushing, presumably out of ignorance, at the thrill, the warm feelings inspired by seeing men in black shirts punching the air and projecting their own kind of aggressive nationalism. Just great to see the crowds back, eh?

Here, that early incident seemed to overshadow the game. Hungary scored midway through the first half, the signal for a huge green smoke bomb in the away end. When England equalised there was some brief alarm at attempts on all sides to clamber over the security tarpaulin, but thankfully it fizzled out. By the final whistle reports suggested the police had arrested 40 Hungary fans, and were waiting for reinforcements to arrive to remove them from the stadium.

For Wembley this was another bruising night. The Euro 2020 final brought its own kind of domestic meltdown. Perhaps you could try to explain that away as a by-product of lockdown desperation, given fuel by corner‑cutting security and shoddy planning. Cut it back. Squeeze the margins. Hope for the best. The reality of England in 2021 went steaming right though that illusion of order, splintering it like a cardboard western set. This was something else. Welcome to the world, Wembley Stadium. It is, make no mistake, a little dark out there.

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Replies: 47
By:
Life-Lucky
When: 13 Oct 21 11:05
What?
By:
wolf3011
When: 13 Oct 21 11:50
Was that from the Guardian Sparrow? Incidentally wc qualifiers should be scrapped anyway, they're boring with the result a foregone conclusion- I don't know what minnow team En ger land are playing and don't care. I wouldn't tune in to watch Wolves play the dog and duck inn which is the equivalent of England vs Andorra yet they keep televising these ridiculous uncompetitive spectacles. I didn't even know they played Hungary till I saw this thread
By:
sparrow
When: 13 Oct 21 12:48
Life-Lucky 13 Oct 21 10:05 
What?





An interesting analysis.
By:
lfc1971
When: 13 Oct 21 12:53
The England team shouldn’t be provoking violence , stop kneeling
By:
sparrow
When: 13 Oct 21 13:07
Provoking violence.......you actually think that?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 13:32
lol yes they literally are provoking the crowd

what the **** are they kneeling for?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 13:33
"A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse."

there you have it folks

it's racist to oppose players taking the knee

also one fan was arrested for saying something racist

incredible to think this is still happening in 2021
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 13:34
it is clearly a gesture that makes many people angry

why are they doing it?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 13:39
taking the knee is unrealted to waht the ultras in the stands were doing

but if you accept that, you must also accept that racism was not central to the troublle

these are hardcore ultras / some are prbably literally proper hooligans
By:
Life-Lucky
When: 13 Oct 21 13:48
I'm reminded of Stalin's 'useful idiots'. Over & out
By:
mecca
When: 13 Oct 21 13:54
I'm guessing that whoever wrote that article is relatively young... coz if they were around in the '70s, they would be cowering in a bunker every Saturday afternoon if they lived within 20 miles of a football ground
By:
lfc1971
When: 13 Oct 21 13:54
The England team seem determined to stir up trouble wherever they go
Unless it’s in Saudi or some other he’ll hole of course
Then they behave themselves
Don’t be so rude when visiting Hungary
By:
sparrow
When: 13 Oct 21 13:57
70s?  Its more like the 1930s these days with all this hate around.
By:
lfc1971
When: 13 Oct 21 13:59
Tell the police to keep their noses out - that was the section for Hungary’s fans
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:06
Can't these players see the irony of taking the knee, whilst simultaneously trying to qualify for a Tournament that's being held in a country with appalling human rights? Modern footballers really are thick, greedy tw@ts.
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:14
You  need to get your facts right Sparrow instead of swallowing everything the MSM tells you. This from an England fan at the game.

I was there above the melee, here is exactly what happened, the England team knelt, the no kneeling banner went up, a snatch squad from the police went in to get it with batons drawn,  there was no bother at all before that happened, they clubbed two people, fans went mad, end of story. They may have a history of racist behaviour, we saw none, their fans reacted to being attacked by the police
By:
mecca
When: 13 Oct 21 14:18
That sounds more like it...... reminds me of the terrible way cyst person that put a message on Rashfords mural.

Turned out to be nothing Racial about it at all
By:
sparrow
When: 13 Oct 21 14:25
Yes clearly those nice Hungarian folk were provoked and attacked by our nasty policemen.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 14:26
"At half-time the police tweeted a statement. Shortly after the start of the game officers had entered the Hungary end to arrest a spectator for “a racially aggravated public order offence”. Before kick-off the England players had taken the knee. It drew an energetic reaction in the Hungary section. A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse."

this paragraph shows the Guardain clearly considers opposition to taking the knee to be racist

once you realise that you know you are not reading something by an objcective journalist
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:26
Two tier Policing is in place in the UK. You only had to see how the Anti-Lockdown protesters were treated compared to how the "Insulate Britain" protesters are being treated. Then how the MSM have covered both with the agenda they like to push.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 14:28
not sure what the "racially aggravated public order offence" was

but the Guardian clearly considers the banner and booing the knee to also be racist hence use of "repeat offenders"
By:
Giuseppe
When: 13 Oct 21 14:29
and the sarah everard vigil

police got enormous critcism for that despite it being against covid rules
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:31
You've already made up your mind, Sparrow. Personally, I like to be a little more subjective when I read things and I like to get all the facts before I come to any sort of conclusion.
By:
tobermory
When: 13 Oct 21 14:33
to impose the principle that racism is a crime in this country

Since when was it a crime to have racist opinions?
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:36
Sounds like a made up "offence" to give Police even more power to act like bullying thugs.
By:
tobermory
When: 13 Oct 21 14:37
Advocates of knee taking keep telling us it's purpose is to stop racism. Then complain that there is more and more racism in response to the kneeling.

Maybe it's not working...Confused
By:
sparrow
When: 13 Oct 21 14:39
I knew when I posted this that the majority would support the Hungarians and the amount of hate in the social media is in my view a disgrace. My mind is made up by that Whippin Piccadilly. I thought I had seen the end of all this nonsense in the 70s but at least we didn't have the social media back then.
By:
Whippin Piccadilly
When: 13 Oct 21 14:50
One thing having a different opinion, quite the other giving out racial abuse. It now looks like the Police & MSM are saying having an opposing view is akin to racial abuse. Confused
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Oct 21 14:54
Racists love the fight.
By:
----you-have-to-laugh---
When: 13 Oct 21 14:55
More racism = kneeling for longer

Hey ho
By:
tobermory
When: 13 Oct 21 14:56
They will be kneeling for their entire careers
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 13 Oct 21 14:57
You have to laugh - "To their credit, the police attempted to enforce the law here".  It hasn't been proved AT ALL that any offences took place - it is at present all allegations.  It;s disgusting how this is being lied about.  Never in my lifetime have I seen police in a football crowd weighing in to innocent fans with batons and sticks designed to cause severe injury.
It is disgusting and we are in deep, deep trouble now as a nation that we have a police force willing, and allowed, to act in such a way.
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 13 Oct 21 15:03
Well done Whippin Piccadilly!  In my view it is clearl the police planned this incident and that btich Easingham with her accusatory grimaces and feigned disgust as she presented it in as bad a light as possible!  Disgusting!  It was obvious these fans were anything but hooligans and were provoked.

Whippin Piccadilly13 Oct 21 13:14
You  need to get your facts right Sparrow instead of swallowing everything the MSM tells you. This from an England fan at the game.

I was there above the melee, here is exactly what happened, the England team knelt, the no kneeling banner went up, a snatch squad from the police went in to get it with batons drawn,  there was no bother at all before that happened, they clubbed two people, fans went mad, end of story. They may have a history of racist behaviour, we saw none, their fans reacted to being attacked by the police
By:
brentford
When: 13 Oct 21 15:54
probably not the smartest bit of policing to try and make an arrest in amongst of group fairly hard core Hungary fans but interesting that so many are keen to defend a group of supporters that contain a significant and very high profile group of right wing extremists...
By:
wolf3011
When: 13 Oct 21 16:09

Oct 13, 2021 -- 9:54AM, brentford wrote:


probably not the smartest bit of policing to try and make an arrest in amongst of group fairly hard core Hungary fans but interesting that so many are keen to defend a group of supporters that contain a significant and very high profile group of right wing extremists...


and the people putting Guardian articles of "racism" which involves criticising the silly kneeling before football matches are "extreme left wing extremists" that are far more damaging. If people want to kneel continually why not attend church and there you can kneel all day long?

It's hardly surprising though is it where the act of flying a union jack over an establishment is deemed to be racist in 2021 Britain that the usual suspects are waving their fists in rage again having a fit at the nasty racists in MSM. These same people will be keeping a straight face where rainbow corner flags are fluttering away at St james park with knee taking whilst the rest of us are bursting into laughter at what an insane society we have become.

By:
wolf3011
When: 13 Oct 21 16:11
Perhaps police resources should be directed at actually keeping streets safe rather than hunting down someone on twitter putting a banana emoji up
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 13 Oct 21 18:24
Excerpt from title article reproduced above.
"A flag was raised with a drawing of a stick man taking the knee, with a line daubed across it. Hungary’s football supporters are enthusiastic repeat offenders when it comes to racist abuse".
Who is this bstrd writing this chit?!  Who the fcuk does he think he is slating people for expressing a perfectly valid view by peacefully waving a home made banner when he never uttered a word about left wing morons disturbing the peace by destroying public statues or vandalising street names or vilifying national icons like Churchill?  How the fcuk is displaying a "no taking the knee banner" deemed as racist abuse?
We've all let this happen.  We need to be taking responsibility and fighting back against this fascism - and that is what it is.
Do what we say or suffer the consequences is the message of this movement and it has to be stopped!
By:
tobermory
When: 13 Oct 21 18:35
Who is this bstrd writing this chit?!

Without checking on the Guardian I would guess Jonathan Liew.
By:
LoyalHoncho
When: 13 Oct 21 18:49
Thanks.  And yes you're right - I should have checked myself.  Love
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