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tobermory
18 Jun 21 22:38
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Date Joined: 01 Mar 08
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9 tournament games

Goals from open play 4, and one those was a deflection.

No more creative than Hodgson’s England really, just more luck of the draw.

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Replies: 89
By:
3 valleys
When: 18 Jun 21 22:40
Will get through to round of 16 - play someone decent and get knocked out
Had hoped they would win tonight and get pushed in to favourite then could have laid laid laid
By:
TOP3MAN
When: 18 Jun 21 22:41
yes he has most probably got a better bunch of players Cry
By:
brentford
When: 18 Jun 21 22:43
spot on in my opinion...Hodgson in 2014 WC got absolutely panned but they were actually ok in a tough group....two defeats to Italy and Uruguay 2-1 both of which could have gone the other way and fell on small margins before playing squad players as we were already out against Costa Rica...

Eng in 2018 relied on a nice group, pens to beat Colombia minus James Rodriguez, did play well against Sweden and then got outplayed in the key phases of the game against Croatia but apparently that was glorious
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 22:59
Did anyone really expect any different going into this tournament. Said the other day, but couldn't believe the praise England got after the first game. Croatia are a bang average side in 2021, England created one chance all game against them, it was an average performance that for some reason had the pundits waxing lyrical.

The England side is absolutely stacked with attacking talent, yet can't create f all, fingers only have to point in 1 direction.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:00
And England creating f all has been going back nearly every game post-lockdown.
By:
thelatarps
When: 18 Jun 21 23:00
Hmmm
International football is about control of the game.
You dont get to build up a team over a pre season and develop it over months.
Its straight in and sh!t ur pants I am afraid.

The progress under Southgate has been undeniable. He actually won a penalty shoot out and did that with an actual plan, thought out to the minutest detail by all accounts.
Which is a refreshing change from the penalties-are-a-lottery you get from a lot of pundits.

Theyve beaten Croatia 3 times now since the semi final, which shows he has learned his lessons. They got to the Nations League semi and got robbed by VAR.

THis covid/var version of football has not been conducive to lots of goals from open play. France got 2 chalked off the other day and the Czech pen today was at best questionable.

But the OP is right. Goals are the big question mark. Wether Southgate has the cojones to revamp his forward line mid-tournament is going to be the key as to wether England stick it out or wether they go home early.
By:
scandanavian_haven
When: 18 Jun 21 23:02
Played with fear, embarrassing, his England team much like Hodgson's have 1 notable thing is common, they worry more about the opposition rather than imposing their game on the opposition, even against Scotland, would not be surprised if the Czech's beat them.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:05
I strongly suspect he's going to make like 10 changes vs Czechs and he absolutely should too. Who knows what that will lead to, it could end up being better though.
By:
scandanavian_haven
When: 18 Jun 21 23:08
after that performance he'll be playing his best team for definite, under pressure now, not to qualify but in general, if he wants to keep his job he has to start putting in good performances in these tournaments.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:10
If anything that performance makes you more likely to make changes. How on earth can you justify putting out the same 11? No point of half the squad being there if he does that. He needs to find who is in form and can only do that through changes. It also combines with resting key players before the last 16, albeit I'm not even sure who those players are right now.
By:
tobermory
When: 18 Jun 21 23:11
As n88uk suggests, 2018 was the last time this Croatia team was top level, they’ve been running on empty with slow,ageing players since.

The Nation’s League is a minor event.

It’s fair to say France don’t create much either, but they have better players to control the game, and I think they will come unstuck anyway in trying to 1-0 every match.

If you don’t create a lot of chances you will have tight games even against 2nd rate opposition.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:13
France also pose much, much more threat on the counter attack than England do. England in theory could pose that threat, but in practice haven't in recent times (we did do it very well vs eg. Spain in the Nations League).
By:
scandanavian_haven
When: 18 Jun 21 23:14
I didn't say the same team, but his best team, that includes Sancho and Grealish and in this moment in time, Rashford for Kane, who is currently unfit by the looks of it.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:15
Well yer but you've just named 3 changes immediately, so are basically agreeing with me. I think everyone would agree he isn't playing his best team right now, but he doesn't know what it is.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:16
Maguire will surely definitely start if he's fit. Can see both full backs changing again. Midfield is a ? as it's where we have least depth and cover, but expect at least Bellingham to start.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:17
As I say it could end up working out a better team, which wouldn't be that difficult on first 2 showings.
By:
scandanavian_haven
When: 18 Jun 21 23:18
no, I see 3 or 4 changes, not 10 changes, should not change 10, that'd be silly
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:19
I can see something like Grealish playing Mount role, Rashford and Sancho on flanks probably with Calvert-Lewin through middle.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:20
Something like Pickford (though could easily change him too but bit pointless really), Walker/Trippier, Maguire, ? (could be anyone), Chilwell, Rice, Bellingham, Grealish, Rashford, Sancho, Calvert-Lewin is team I'm expecting vs Czech Republic.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:21
Oh Henderson actually will surely get a game thinking about it too.
By:
scandanavian_haven
When: 18 Jun 21 23:21
this should be the team


...................Pickford................

Walker.........Stones..Mings..........Shaw

....................Rice..................

...................Grealish................

.....Sancho..........Foden...........Sterling

.....................Rashford.............

Maguire not fit, keep Mings imo, don't nothing wrong.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:23

Jun 18, 2021 -- 5:11PM, tobermory wrote:


As n88uk suggests, 2018 was the last time this Croatia team was top level, they’ve been running on empty with slow,ageing players since.The Nation’s League is a minor event.It’s fair to say France don’t create much either, but they have better players to control the game, and I think they will come unstuck anyway in trying to 1-0 every match.If you don’t create a lot of chances you will have tight games even against 2nd rate opposition.


The thing is not only are Croatia past it, I'm not sure how visually anyone actually thought England looked good. I normally like G-Nev but he went so overboard, it wasn't even funny, he was talking about how lethargic we looked tonight, we looked the exact same vs Croatia, there was one good move basically initiated by Phillips, other than that we were lethargic all game vs Croatia too. Croatia almost certainly aren't a top 10 side in Europe anymore, so many players well past 30.

By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:24
If Maguire isn't fit, you have to question why he's even there (not that I'm doubting you).
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:24
Sterling surely can't play after today's game, he was awful.
By:
brentford
When: 18 Jun 21 23:29
pretty sure Maguire is technically fit, ideally would have won tonight and he could have had a virtual freebie against the Czech Rep prior to playing a bigger game
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:29
The problem as ever with punditry in this country is it's always boom or bust. Win = best thing ever, draw or loss = worst thing ever.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:30
It's already a virtual freebie vs Czech Republic, only if England finished 3rd out of it have they really lost badly, chances of that happening are very low. I imagine Czech's will rest players as they probably aren't too bothered about winning group given for them getting the "easier" next round is a bigger deal, and they have no home advantage unlike England.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 18 Jun 21 23:36
which players do we think aren't fit?

Kane?
By:
Giuseppe
When: 18 Jun 21 23:37
Gealish better in a more advanced number 10 role I think scandy

in and around the box, dribbling, winning free kicks
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:37
I just think Kane's playing his Tottenham role that isn't remotely suited to how England play or want to play.
By:
brentford
When: 18 Jun 21 23:38
you're certainly right that they are unlikely not to qualify but on the back of 0-0 at home to Scotland it's a lot less of a freebie...
By:
Giuseppe
When: 18 Jun 21 23:38
as bad as Sterling was he almost got a penalty
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:39
It will be impossible to not qualify I'm pretty sure by the time of the match. Nearly impossible for 4 points to not be enough in this format.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:41
By finish 3rd, I meant our draw becomes much tougher in doing so, but for that to happen we have to lose badly, and Scotland win.
By:
n88uk
When: 18 Jun 21 23:42
Or we lose and Scotland win comfortably.
By:
Giuseppe
When: 18 Jun 21 23:45
that Scotland team ain't winning comfortably against anybody
By:
thelatarps
When: 18 Jun 21 23:50
The thing about Kane is that a succession of ankle injuries have slowed him to a virtual cart horse.
He has no work rate anymore so cant press.
And on top of that his win percentage in aerial duels is around the 0.00 mark.

He can score goals by the bucketful in an open game, which is pratically every epl match but that is rarely the case in international tournaments.

The problem Southgate had tonight was that he was facing in effect a British style 'derby'.
Trying to play 'football' in such a game is always fraught with difficulty.
Its funny but it often pays to give possession away in such games.
The expression hoofing it into the mixer has lost a lot of its appeal these days but with scotland fielding a back 5 with only Hanley as a recognised Center Back it may well have been a better policy..
Still you got a point.
By:
wolf3011
When: 19 Jun 21 00:20

Jun 18, 2021 -- 5:00PM, thelatarps wrote:


HmmmInternational football is about control of the game.You dont get to build up a team over a pre season and develop it over months.Its straight in and sh!t ur pants I am afraid.The progress under Southgate has been undeniable. He actually won a penalty shoot out and did that with an actual plan, thought out to the minutest detail by all accounts. Which is a refreshing change from the penalties-are-a-lottery you get from a lot of pundits.Theyve beaten Croatia 3 times now since the semi final, which shows he has learned his lessons. They got to the Nations League semi and got robbed by VAR. THis covid/var version of football has not been conducive to lots of goals from open play. France got 2 chalked off the other day and the Czech pen today was at best questionable.But the OP is right. Goals are the big question mark. Wether Southgate has the cojones to revamp his forward line mid-tournament is going to be the key as to wether England stick it out or wether they go home early.


Penalties are a lottery and always will be, winning a pen shootout isn't evidence of a thing lol

By:
LOU MACARIS TARTAN B
When: 19 Jun 21 08:05
I've said before the tournament started that as a United fan please don't buy Harry Kane.

That's two games now and I'm not sure he's even touched the ball has he?  Granted I do feel for him that as a CF and goal scorer I suppose you can only pretty much wait for the ball/crosses to come and if they aren't coming what can you do?

But still he's just not for me at all and I suggest England even drop him as he does seem slow, lethargic.

Now if United could buy 'Son' from Spurs?  Yes please now look at the difference between him and Kane.  great player.
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