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unitedbiscuits
01 Apr 21 20:39
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Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 14,998 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
In reality, too cynical.

And fully backed up commentators. For example, last night, the nonentity commentating on play:

"Foden GUILTY of staying on his in the penalty area."

Lee Dixon: "I was a master of timewasting."

And both lauding England's "game management" where they played towards the corner flag once in front.

And no mention of Sterling already diving to win a pen before the Polish defender made contact.

It stinks. And - hopefully - in keeping with the last 55 years, will be unsuccessful.

These commentators should realise that the only people who care passionately about England are 8 to 18 year old boys - and they're being taught all the wrong values.
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Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- April 1, 2021 10:20 PM BST
It's odd that they want us to
win the fair play award by being better
cheats,... Or something like that.

Call out the cheats, but make
sure you cheat better.
Report rothko April 2, 2021 5:49 PM BST
big money and cynicism - whatever next

any player who gets fouled in the box and doesn't go down needs to be fined a weeks wages imho
they are supposed to be professionals
Report haywarj April 2, 2021 5:54 PM BST
How Sterling can hold his head up i don't one cheating bast**d
Report haywarj April 2, 2021 5:55 PM BST
know
Report rothko April 2, 2021 5:59 PM BST
sterling penalty was 100 percent a penalty - he didnt cheat
Report unitedbiscuits April 2, 2021 7:04 PM BST
Of course Sterling didn't cheat. Foreigners cheat. English players "win" or "buy" a decision.

Rothko is wrong. Professionalism is being good at your job, which in a footballer's profession is kicking a football. If English players spent as much time on mastering the basics as they do on deception, they wouldn't have to crawl to the final whistle and they may just get to contest a final for their country in their lifetime.
Report Aspro April 2, 2021 8:15 PM BST
I can't see how cutting out deception will make England any better somehow and like it or not, it is expected of professional players in the modern game. Rothko makes a fair point.
Report brentford April 2, 2021 8:27 PM BST
I would be disgusted if England didn't selectively 'cheat' to the best of their ability...it's been part of the game at international level for over 50 years and a very important one...I think we've been a bit slow on it frankly...
Report unitedbiscuits April 2, 2021 8:33 PM BST
Disagree entirely. I believe the cumulative of cynicism is negative on multiple levels.

The practical: If your team is playing for the corner flag, that is the opposite of playing the game, and violates the principle of "may the best team win." It is simple, if you don't act like you are the best team, you will never become the best team.
You might get away with it twice, three times, but that's not enough to win a World Cup.

But there is a wider dimension. Kids are impressionable. The very worst thing they can hear is the commentary of these hard-boiled "professionals" normalising cheating. Sport has a value beyond making children healthy. It should teach them to be good winners and good losers.
Report brentford April 2, 2021 8:37 PM BST
well it's a very laudable outlook UB.... I'm afraid watching international football (and some other sports) for over 40 years has rather knocked out any belief in adopting that approach in the professional game
Report unitedbiscuits April 2, 2021 9:56 PM BST
I believe that English footballers are lazy; and the glib narrative that England haven't been "professional enough" to win trophies is an excuse for English players not doing the hard yards and becoming better footballers.

You're entitled to cheat if you are Maradona because he was ten times more sinned against than sinning. Get good, then cheat. Don't expect it to happen the other way round.
Report mecca April 2, 2021 10:54 PM BST
A few on here need to watch more South American footie ...

The English players are novices when it comes to cheating and cynicism
Report Des Pond April 2, 2021 11:44 PM BST
Whether Foden, Sterling, Mount etc are more honest than their continental counterparts is not that much of an issue for me. The fact that they played poorly and didn't gel is much more of a concern. An even bigger concern is the manager who doesn't have a clue what his best team is with only 2 friendlies to go before the finals, and who thinks they were "very good" in the first half. They were not, they were mediocre 1st half and terrible in the 2nd. Peformances like that might be enough to beat the scots and maybe the czechs, but against better teams it will be woefully short.
Report unitedbiscuits April 3, 2021 12:16 AM BST
A few on here need to watch more South American footie ...

But that just reinforces my point: Ronaldo and Messi didn't conquer Europe by cheating but, if they had to resort to it, they would probably be better.

The "wiseguy" attitude of most of the England team - suspicious of media as if they were themselves corrupt officers in a Metropolitan Police Force - give your heads a shake.  I hate the way most  England players terminate their interviews by turning away at once, sucking on the teat of a bottle. But any England player more forthcoming would would certainly be unpopular in the squad.
Report Aspro April 3, 2021 10:05 AM BST
To be fair to England, I don't think they've played that poorly at all. They've played three competitive internationals and won them all. In all three games they never looked like losing, even though they made hard work of Poland. Our weakness is in defence, we're error prone and that is a problem that can only be resolved by better, more assured players... but who?

Foden and Mount are two players that are only going to get better. Both are talented and raw, but I like them, along with Rice who is improving with (literally) every game this season, which is a telling factor in West Ham's climb up the table. These players, if left to mature, will have more time to 'gel' ...just not in time for the Euros (imo), unfortunately.

I don't believe we have a team capable of winning trophies, yet, but we do have the makings of one that needs no more than a little tweaking. A few more decent results in the WCQ and we might be in a position to blood one or two prospects to fill those gaps before the WC tournament is upon us... that should be our aim now and the Euros, for me, is for the above mentioned players (and one or two on the fringes) to gain some valuable experience.

I'd rather see our supporters actually support us. Moaning after 3 out of 3 wins is not, in my opinion, at all supportive. Shame on you!
Report ericster April 3, 2021 10:35 AM BST
The practical: If your team is playing for the corner flag, that is the opposite of playing the game, and violates the principle of "may the best team win." It is simple, if you don't act like you are the best team, you will never become the best team."

sterling penalty was 100 percent a penalty - he didnt cheat

Totally agree with the above but Stirling went looking for the pen, of course he did.
This notion of having won a penalty stinks imo but as that tv ad goes, "it's all in the game."

The bottom line is, fairness and sportsmanship is for losers.
Football ceased to be a sport years ago, and that's a shame for those old enough remember a time when fair-play mattered.

Would love to seem them play against a fit and firing Lewandowski.
Report ericster April 3, 2021 10:36 AM BST
I don't believe we have a team capable of winning trophies, yet, but we do have the makings of one that needs no more than a little tweaking. A few more decent results in the WCQ and we might be in a position to blood one or two prospects to fill those gaps before the WC tournament is upon us... that should be our aim now and the Euros, for me, is for the above mentioned players (and one or two on the fringes) to gain some valuable experience.

I'd rather see our supporters actually support us. Moaning after 3 out of 3 wins is not, in my opinion, at all supportive. Shame on you!

Aspro, how many years have been saying that now?
Report Aspro April 3, 2021 10:51 AM BST
The same as most of the other countries ericster. One day it all came together for Spain, France, Italy et al. We can't all win it, even though we all have our talented individuals. We're close, but not quite on that level yet and if we can't fill the gaps then I'll be saying this again in another four years.
Report ericster April 3, 2021 11:07 AM BST
Aspro, I'm no expert, I disagree.
Respectfully of course.
Report Aspro April 3, 2021 11:15 AM BST
Of course and I'm glad you have opposing thoughts; that's the whole point of this forum... to discuss opinions, respectfully.
Report ericster April 3, 2021 11:35 AM BST
That's good to know.
Report rothko April 3, 2021 11:44 AM BST
some real naive posts
this is professional not amateur football - multi billion pound business
players have every right to go down in the box if they are fouled - that isnt a dive imho

Rothko is wrong. Professionalism is being good at your job, which in a footballer's profession is kicking a football. If English players spent as much time on mastering the basics as they do on deception, they wouldn't have to crawl to the final whistle and they may just get to contest a final for their country in their lifetime

Professionalism is about winning football matches not about just about kicking a ball - they practice for hours
so professional footballers cant kick a ball properly - you musnt watch many games
England have some of the best strikers of a ball in world football
Report duncan idaho April 3, 2021 12:14 PM BST
players have every right to go down in the box if they are fouled - that isnt a dive imho


it is a dive....you may rationalise it as being necessary to illustrate the foul but if you go to ground without the contact being enough to make you go to ground, it is a dive
Report rothko April 3, 2021 1:39 PM BST
where the forward initiates the contact and goes down has always been a dive in my book

the only person who knows whether they could have stayed on their feet is the player themselves
some fat armchair fan sitting at home wouldnt have a clue
Report betting_masta April 3, 2021 2:04 PM BST
there
Report betting_masta April 3, 2021 2:13 PM BST
there was a narrative about 10-15 years ago by English pundits and even players saying something to the effect of "European/ South American players are "cleverer" than us, "cuter", we need to be more like them", implying that those players were better at conning the ref, diving, play acting, wasting time etc. there's obviously been a concerted effort by English players to become better at this, and that is why we are seeing diving as commonplace. 30 years ago English players didn't dive, now they realise it's a big part of the game and they've perfected it. it's all been done very consciously imo.

the same is true with younger age group football. " we need to be more technical, more like Spain "  - that was a narrative 10 or so years ago, and that's been a conscious change, and that's why we're seeing players like Phil Foden come through, and the u21 full of at least players who want to dribble, albeit they actually end up being not very good at it, but anyway, the point is these things don't happen by chance. English football is actually very consciously aware and they do try and change themselves, adapt, the problem is if you're always one step behind everybody else you cannot really beat them at their own game. it's like China trying to become a super football power, well you've got almost 100 years to catch up on all of these other great footballing nations so you're up against it.

England should stick to what they're good at. a homogenised European way of playing the game doesn't really help their chances of winning a Euros. well maybe it does, but it definitely makes the spectacle worse
Report Giuseppe April 3, 2021 2:20 PM BST
"England should stick to what they're good at."

i understand your point but how is that going to work when nearly all the big teams in premier league have foreign managers?
Report the wire April 3, 2021 3:30 PM BST
Kenneth Wolstenholme  "some people are on the pitch, they think it's all over"

Lee Dixon (or one of many others)  "take it in the corner, take it in the corner"
Report mecca April 3, 2021 5:46 PM BST
I can remember in an important qualifier when England only needed the draw to qualify... Croatia I think.

We went 2-0 down and everyone thought that was that....late on,  we got back to 2-2 and went gung ho for the winner... I seem to remember Beckham rushing to take a throw in in injury time... The other team had already qualified and weren't bothered really... we lost 3-2 and failed to qualify...
Any other team would have completely "Killed" the game using every trick in the book at 2-2. We must have learnt something from that experience
Report roache April 3, 2021 10:21 PM BST
That was the game Scott Carson threw one in and Croatia played us off the park winning 2-0 then miraculously somehow we dragged it back to 2-2 job done but no they found a way to fcuk it up.
Report unitedbiscuits April 4, 2021 8:41 AM BST
So - Beckham knew - there is a God. If you consciously decide to stop playing and kill the game, you lose authority. Nobody respects a coward - no doubt Croatia could smell the fear all over the pitch.

And I wouldn't be confident that "Foden is only going to get better" either. Most English players don't. Clean through on the Polish goalkeeper and he musters a pathetic shot - immediately excused for it being on his weaker foot. Something to improve on? Time will tell.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B April 4, 2021 8:54 AM BST
Thing with England is they always will qualify as the group stages are just cannon fodder.  They've just played San Marino, Albania and them the mighty Poland who have Lewandowski, em Lewandowski, they've got Lewandowski oh and don't forget they've got Lewandowski in the team.  (and he wasn't even playing!)

They've pretty much beat Leyton Orient Reserves, The Salvation Army Eleven and 'The Dog and Duck' pub team.  How can they not qualify?

Yet as soon as they get there and once again get out of a ridiculously easy group they then play someone decent ......... and out they go.  Look at when they had Seaman, Neville, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerrard, Scholes, Beckham, Lampard, Rooney, Owen yet they still did nothing.  What chance the players they have now?  Compare the players they have in the side now for the ones I've mentioned, how many would get in.  Off the top of my had I wouldn't choose one of the current crop?
Report Aspro April 4, 2021 9:02 AM BST
Whilst Foden might need to work on his shooting skills, his distribution, as a midfielder, is what you need to be judging him on UB. Not quite Xavi I will admit, but most definitely a future talent that imo, will improve, although admittedly I said the same about Wilshere when he was raw Blush so I have to also respect your point of view here. Only time will tell.
Report ericster April 4, 2021 9:36 AM BST
The words "glass" and "ceiling" spring to mind.
I'm sorry but there it is.
The level that we're at right now is as good as it gets.Sad
Report ffaith April 4, 2021 10:11 AM BST
There are so many ugly aspects to the modern game would one more really make any difference?
In fact our esteemed capt could be called a cheat.
What riles me more about England is the lack of adventure.  Ok 2 defensive midfields are his preferred system but do you have to play 2 against mugs like San marino?  No room for experimentation, no room for versatility.  No wonder he gets found out come tournament proper
Report unitedbiscuits April 4, 2021 10:29 AM BST
Respect right back to you, Aspro; after all, this isn't the politics forum! Hope Foden does become the exception and his game evolves; he should be getting daily reminders from his club manager who knows what a world class player looks like.

Unfortunately, talented England players tend to peak by twenty. It is said Real Madrid had a template of the ideal team in the boardroom and one of the rules was "no Englishmen". Probably expanded now to include the Welsh.

I think there's a wider concern though: look what "professionalism" has done to the game of Rugby Union. Players bulked up like hormone fed turkeys, second halves killed by collapsed scrums - game management. I defy anybody to sit through a rugby World Cup mismatch.
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