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09 Jan 21 17:44
Date Joined: 27 Jan 02
| Topic/replies: 14,761 | Blogger: unitedbiscuits's blog
I don't know. But the idea that players for prominent teams, if selected, are going to bust a gut for a basic £**,*** per week seems to be bust.
Pause Switch to Standard View Has the FA Cup become a joke - on us?
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Report sparrow January 9, 2021 5:24 PM GMT
You could argue that if this was the case then it would be Football rather than just the FA Cup that had become the joke on us.
Report Storm Alert January 9, 2021 5:32 PM GMT
A great venerable tournament.
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 5:39 PM GMT
I mean BBC putting on Arsenal v Newcastle primetime -when either team probably would rather lose- is awful.
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 5:45 PM GMT
I suppose people of a certain age might view the FA Cup far differently than younger generations.
Report rommel January 9, 2021 5:47 PM GMT
the ffff i couldnt give gets bigger every year
Report onlooker January 9, 2021 5:52 PM GMT
Extra-Time and Penalties dilutes it even more.  Cry

At one time - 3rd Round Replays were a big deal.
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 5:53 PM GMT
Strange world we live in whereby Europe is the be all and end all for Football clubs and the people vote to have no more to do with it.Laugh
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 5:58 PM GMT
Yeah, but the contrast to what it was..

Even the 3rd round was an event.

Mostly because the FA Cup Final was the only non international game a football fan could watch live.
It was a whole day experience, with BBC and ITV following the team bus etc..

In those days, getting to Wembley was even more important than getting vaccinated.
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 6:04 PM GMT
I think it should be a top priority for middle of the road type clubs like West Ham, no danger of relegation, no hope of top 4.

Top 4 don't care about and haven't for a long while, they still mostly win it but mostly because they have strong squads, for them it's the league, Europe or qualifying for it.
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 6:06 PM GMT
No I don't buy that argument that it was all about what we could watch on TV. Virtually all fans who were able to would even be tuned into their radios at 1230 on the Monday for the next round draw.
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 6:10 PM GMT
Loads of posters of a certain age can tell you not only what the cup final score was but also what time (within a few minutes) the winning goal was scored.

My first was Man City v Leicester: And my recollection is Young 29 mins. With Allan Clarke playing for Leicester.

I can remember the next six Cup Finals after that in great detail, but couldn't tell you who won it in 2019.
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 6:14 PM GMT
To show how important the FA Cup was then, consider Everton v Tranmere 5th round 1968.

Gate of 60,000
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 6:15 PM GMT
Same for me united as my first was the famous so called "Matthews Final" of 1953 when Blackpool came from 3-1 down to defeat Bolton 4-3. Mortenson of Blackpool scored a hat trick and yet still they called it the Matthews Final!
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 6:18 PM GMT
Was that live sparrow? Or were you at Wembley?
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 6:23 PM GMT
No it was on the BBC live all day although I was only a 6 year old at the time.
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 6:27 PM GMT
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 6:42 PM GMT
It is interesting.

When Liverpool won their first League title in the '70's, Emelyn Hughes said the players were no different from their fans, they just wore the football boots.

I think players have become too much divorced from their fans now.
Report differentdrum January 9, 2021 6:44 PM GMT
The only question is when did it start going downhill? 10-15 years? What started with the League Cup - Wenger putting out second teams with success - just spread to the FA Cup. Now it's all about the Premier League. This year covid provides a bit of a smokescreen. 

Even those who cover the games don't feel the need to pretend. It will never be what it was.
Report rommel January 9, 2021 6:45 PM GMT
carroll is a fkn bow wow
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 6:47 PM GMT
don't be naive lol, it was Man United abandoning the FA Cup as Winners in 2000 to play in some lame world cup tournament instead, that killed the Cup
Report rommel January 9, 2021 6:51 PM GMT
scand it was a fkn massive nail yep,but its death by a 1000 cuts,sold the draw rights,the awful money grabbing semi move to wembley
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 6:51 PM GMT
There is no comparison with what happens these days. I remember going with my father to watch West Ham in an away game at Stoke in an old second division game and being in the same railway carriage as the team. My father knew some of the players and the highlight of that trip was meeting Frank O'Farrell then a West Ham player and later to become the Man Utd. manager and speaking to him about the game although I was only 9 years old and he even bought me a cup of tea!
Report 1st time poster January 9, 2021 6:59 PM GMT
top still do well because hard as they try till 6th round to get knocked out,those that should be busting a gut to win try even less than the big 5/6
team selection
Report wolf3011 January 9, 2021 7:19 PM GMT
Its understandable directors obsessing over top 4 positions compared to the FA with the financial rewards on offer but crazy that fans prioritise simply qualifying for a tournament they have next to no chance of winning over winning actually winning silverware. The common fan under 45 now doesn't really care about either domestic cup with the ridiculous top 4 obsession to enter the " champions" league which is teams finishing 3rd or 4th in their respective leagues as far away as being champions as it gets. The argument is that qualifying for the champions league means attracting better players but the idea that a player will simply choose a club due to one season playing in a competition they are unlikely to win compared to a bigger club paying better wages is ridiculous. If Leicester make top 4 and United don't, players will still choose to go to the latter. One of the reasons the top 4 talk is all over every media / radio/ tv station is that it keeps the season alive for clubs in the upper mid table region for longer giving people something to talk about when the usual plethora of drunks call in 5 live and are asked can club xyz make top 4 - even covid/ lack of crowds aside the game was much better in the days where the FA cup meant something instead of what it is today. I think scrapping the cup winners cup hasnt helped the FA cup when winning it gives the same reward as the league cup into the Europa league that no one wants to play in seemingly.. what we have now is basically the league and champions league with everything else being "tinpot" with clubs playing reserves and football a sad imitation of what it used to be
Report rommel January 9, 2021 7:27 PM GMT
carroll impersonating a pro footballer
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 7:31 PM GMT
You have to laugh at Arsenal continually playing the ball around their own penalty area and losing it half the time or taking 25 passes to get to the halfway line.
Report Storm Alert January 9, 2021 8:32 PM GMT
Yes, I wish they would play a bit like Spurs and let the opposition have the ball for two thirds of the match and hit teams on the break and then park the bus.
Report sparrow January 9, 2021 9:21 PM GMT
A spurs fan can answer that one.
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 9:26 PM GMT
Only Liverpool out of the traditional top 6 are a joy to watch, City boring possession yawn, Tottenham stone age football, Arsenal a BTEC man City, United sit and counter throwback football to when 442 was king, Chelsea no idea, square pegs in round holes though.
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 9:28 PM GMT
Liverpool's game is to hustle a mistake, not to be taken for creativity.
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 9:30 PM GMT
everyone's game to make the opposition make mistakes.
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 9:39 PM GMT
Not so.

The defining choice is whether to rebuild an unpromising attack by passing back or pressing forward in the hope of a mistake or winning a set play.

In a nutshell, the difference between Guardiola and Klopp.
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 10:04 PM GMT
defining choice Crazy
Report unitedbiscuits January 9, 2021 10:31 PM GMT
Between Klopp's and Guardiola's style, it is Klopp's supporters who always bridle at the difference because, at an honest level, they realise they are inferior.
Report scandanavian_haven January 9, 2021 10:57 PM GMT
Nobody bar Klopp has a positive head to head record v Pep over more than 5 games played so he's style's pretty good imo Laugh
Report stewarts rise January 10, 2021 10:49 AM GMT
Football is no longer the game it was full stop. The beginning of the Premier League and Sky TV was basically the death knell of football as we knew it. Putting games on at a time to suit sky, spreading the matches over all times Sat, Sun and Mon was the start of it imo, making fans think they had to subscribe to sky to watch the games actually ruined it.
Football Pool companies went bust, no excitement seeing just 4 scores on a sat afternoon, its all been filtered down.
The joy of a football supporter of a lower league or non league team being drawn at home to Man utd or Arsenal etc completely diminished by the realisation that all you'll be watching are reserves and youth players.
Yes Ferguson was one of the first culprits but the likes of Allardyce sending a reserve team out for Bolton was disgusting.
Been at many a match at Villa Park with 65,000 watching an FA Cup tie even in the early rounds, and went to most of the semi-finals at Villa Park in the 60/70s, a highlight of the year
I suppose really football supporters have themselves to blame for their insatiable appetite for live matches and being prepared to pay premium charges to watch it.
But I can recall Brian Clough saying he was of the opinion that TV cameras shouldn't be allowed at grounds as it was much better actually being there.
Watching the big match on ITV 4 shows how exciting football used to be, every team had a few very gifted players, these days they'd be sitting on their bums in the stands as squad players for one of the top teams on £100,000 a week.
Teams play for Free kicks now and the slightest touch sends them over, far too technical now I watched a goal kick last night the 20 outfield players were all within 15/20 yards of each other on one side of the pitch, players moving to the highest bidder every couple of years, you'll never see a Terry Paine, Johnny Haynes, Charlie Aitken, Steve Perry man playing 600/700 games for one club again,beats me how fans stay loyal to their team when the players certainly aren't.
Report tashkent terror January 10, 2021 11:38 AM GMT
Loads of posters of a certain age can tell you not only what the cup final score was but also what time (within a few minutes) the winning goal was scored.

My memories are of the late 70's, early 80's finals but a more recent one that sticks out more than any other is 2013 and I can get it down to the actual second Wink

Man City 0 Wigan 1 - Ben Watson (90:08)
Report rommel January 10, 2021 12:05 PM GMT
imagine what a complete non-event the final will be without a crowd
Report buddeliea January 10, 2021 3:20 PM GMT
stewarts rise pretty much sums it up
Report roache January 10, 2021 3:28 PM GMT
Bielsa has just confirmed the FA cup is in fact a joke with that comedy performance and team selection
Report brians January 10, 2021 3:39 PM GMT
Stewarts bang on. Totally boring game now, just play for a free kick or dive for a penalty. End of game.
I used to love this game, would travel hundreds of mikes, now I wouldn't walk next door to see a game. Have moved on to the sports where they don,t cheat. Rugby, American Football, Ice Hickey, Snooker , Tennis, Golf.
Overpaid nancies.
Report SeeMoreBusiness January 10, 2021 6:28 PM GMT
man utd v leicester in 1963 was my first one on a crappy telly with a moveable aerial. I doubt if I have been as excited as I was when ,finally, I went to Wembley in 1984 and saw Everton beat Watford. It is daft that middling teams don't try and win it. When Everton won the League in 1985 they played 12 games in 38 days including an FA Cup semi and Final, a Euro Cup Winners cup 2 leg semi against Bayern Munich, the final and loads of League games. They won the league and CWC. Still had 3 games in 5 days AFTER the F A Cup Final. Players are pampered now. Nowhere near as much fun as it was. Everyone had a chance of winning the Cup then. They would now if they only tried
Report differentdrum January 10, 2021 6:58 PM GMT
It all went badly wrong when they outlawed tackling and replaced the mud and sand with grass.
Report scandanavian_haven January 10, 2021 7:40 PM GMT
if you took away 4th place=CL qualification and gave that place to the FA Cup winners, you'd start to see much stronger sides being put out.
Report SeeMoreBusiness January 10, 2021 8:39 PM GMT
spot on scandi
Report roache January 10, 2021 10:11 PM GMT
The other way around this apathy with putting reserve teams out and treating the FA cup with utter contempt because all the money is in the premier league is to incentivise into the managers contracts that if they win the FA cup,get to final etc or whatever then they earn a massive wedge, money and greed got us into this situation with the FA cup maybe its the way out as well as i always remember that the hated Megson whilst manager at Bolton threw the Europa league by playing a complete reserve team away to Sporting Lisbon when they had the chance to get through to the quarter finals of that cup because he was on a massive wedge just to keep them up in the Premier league and guess what all the 1st team players he rested for that Europa game meant nothing anyway because they lost the very next game away to Wigan that he had rested them for.
Report wolf3011 January 10, 2021 10:27 PM GMT
Creating a champions league place for the FA cup winners would not just reinvigorate the competition to its old status as a prestigious competition worth winning but create excitement for all clubs at all levels giving a remote opportunity to compete with the elite teams in Europe. Purists would state that clubs like Wigan should be nowhere near the champions league but then a club finishing fourth finishing 30 points behind the champions has no business being in the "champions" league either. Football is about entertainment and the route to the champions league for the winners of a domestic cup any club can win is far more interesting the the annual snooze fest of competing for fourth in the premier league.

What we have now are both domestic cups barely worth winning with reserves put out, the europa league a pale imitation of the " champions" league where clubs finishing 4th enter a supposed competition for champions- its boring as hell
Report Deptford January 10, 2021 10:47 PM GMT
Sadly its not about entertainment, its all about money.
Report everyone's a winner January 11, 2021 12:03 PM GMT
Part of the problem is that it's not even just the teams with a realistic chance of a top 4 finish, who are fielding reserve teams in the cups. The whole of the premier league are at it, because the priority has become the league position full stop. I agree with wolf, it's boring.

From a gambling point of view I barely touch the cups now, as I find it too much effort to judge the value of the prices, when you don't know what teams coming out, or what the motivation will be. They might as well just exclude the premier league teams from the cups, if no one is bothered about winning them.

If you're a fan of a mid/low level team, it's also annoying, to see them not seriously trying to win some silverware and there's no pleasure in watching them lose, or struggle, in matches that they shouldn't.
Report roache January 11, 2021 1:00 PM GMT
I saw Leeds team sheet and who had been left at home and i got on Crawley at 17s but sadly put very little on,it did not surprise me at all that Crawley won but what shocked me was the apathy of management and players partaking in that game,Leeds never looked like scoring 1 goal and it could easily have been 5 for Crawley and i am still fuming about it.
Report scandanavian_haven January 11, 2021 1:29 PM GMT
shocking aftertiming
Report roache January 11, 2021 3:27 PM GMT
No after Histon,Sutton United,Newport County and Rochdale in recent years you would understand a little insurance policy
Report scandanavian_haven January 11, 2021 3:48 PM GMT
I understand if you've backed a long odds winner and you knew what was going to happen it's probably to claim so beforehand not after the event Wink
Report tobermory January 11, 2021 6:14 PM GMT
The Cup was already faded in 2000 or else United would have played in it.

I don't disagree that money was a big factor but I thought there were several other reasons....

Playing the semi finals at Wembley massively diluted the 'magic' of the final itself. You also lost the special atmosphere that you used to get with the SF at Villa Park or wherever. Those games were packed out with the supporters of the teams and were incredibly tense. Wembley semis are dire, with corporate ticket holders spending most of the game in the bar. 

Also in 1991 the FA allowed minnow teams drawn at home to simply switch the tie to the big clubs ground. Non league Woking were at home to Everton but it was played at Goodison, purely so they could make more cash from the gate. Everton won 1-0 but might well have lost at Woking. But Woking preferred to make more money than giant killing. And from that point it became a common thing into the 2000s. I think it turned a lot of people off. Why should fans believe in 'the magic of the cup' if even non league sides couldn't be bothered. It was finally stopped after 'Farnborough v Arsenal'. Of course Farnbourough switched to Highbury and were absolutely blatant about how much money they were going to make, no 'magic of the cup' stuff at all and there was a bad reaction. Fans on phone ins saying they hated Arsenal but hoped they'd win 10-0, Arsenal fans singing 'Your supposed to be at home'. It was stopped after that but damage was done.
Report scandanavian_haven January 11, 2021 6:23 PM GMT
that's just not true about 2000

Fergie always said the FA were pressurising them to go and play there as it's somehow help England's World Cup bid in 2006, though I don't think he is the sort of person who could possibly have been pressured to fly down to South America to play in that tournament, he simply chose to over the FA Cup because it was an ego trip, we can be the World Club champions for the first time, or.....or, play in the FA Cup and win it yet again, he chose the holiday to Brazil or wherever it was. It was the biggest disgrace ever in the cups history that the Cup holders said we don't want to defend our trophy, agree about the semi's at Wembley thing though, a cash cow to help pay for the new stadium, that also made it no longer special, no more road to wembley stories etc.
Report mecca January 11, 2021 7:20 PM GMT
Chorley v Wolves...

..... Wolves low point in 1986 when in the 4th division and lost to Chorley in the FA cup
Report mecca January 11, 2021 7:22 PM GMT
Good story for bbc or bt.... obviously don't know... or don't care
Report roache January 11, 2021 10:52 PM GMT
I saw Wolves get pasted by Chorley 3-0 the game you are talking about it was played at Burnden Park with about 16 000 watching and was a replay after the molineaux game finished 1-1 i think, Alistair Robertson running round getting angrier and angrier trying to kick the Chorley players as they were getting beat Laugh
Report mecca January 12, 2021 12:28 AM GMT
It's still one of those talking points for Wolves fans..... all these years later.

It's like a badge of honour... or a proof of loyalty to say ...."I was at the Chorley match"   If you believe everyone that says it... then there must have been 50 000 Wolves fans there
Report wolf3011 January 12, 2021 12:55 AM GMT
Everyone on the mol mix forum was at Chorley - even the ones that were born in the 90s
Report Whittler January 22, 2021 7:38 PM GMT
No, the 3-0 match wasn't at Burnden Park, it was at Chorley's ground. The 1st match ended 1-1 at Chorley, replay 1-1 at Molineux, then they tossed a coin for the 2nd replay, and Chorley won the toss and the match. Here's the goals.
Report Whittler January 22, 2021 7:39 PM GMT
Here's the Molineux replay. They clearly state at the end that the next replay will be at Chorley.
Report wolf3011 January 22, 2021 8:04 PM GMT
The match where Chorley won 3-0 was at Burnden park, what are you babbling on about
Report the wire January 22, 2021 8:17 PM GMT
According to that year's Rothmans both Chorley home games were played at Bolton. The second replay had the highest attendance, 5421.  The 4770 for the Molineux replay was the lowest gate of the three.
Report wolf3011 January 22, 2021 8:39 PM GMT
The way this game is going, it could be another replay
Report mecca February 10, 2021 9:11 PM GMT
3-2 at half time??

This Everton v Tottenham match is a bit more like it
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