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21 Nov 20 18:59
Date Joined: 27 May 11
| Topic/replies: 15,619 | Blogger: scandanavian_haven's blog
Wenger was a good manager for 10 years at Arsenal, then turned to pot the next 10 years faffing about with philosophies, ideology, passing game regardless of opposition every game played the same way, game caught him. Same thing with Pep, great first 10 years but now obsession with possession seems dated, looks like another run of the mill manager.
Pause Switch to Standard View Pep Guardiola the new Arsene Wenger
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Report G Hall November 21, 2020 7:35 PM GMT
Overated manager he has become clueless because he never had a plan B, Messi, xavi and iniesta meant he didn't need one.
Report ProSniper November 21, 2020 7:39 PM GMT
Still better to have more like minded managers as them than the many pragmatists who suck the life out the game.
Report scandanavian_haven November 21, 2020 8:05 PM GMT
The pragmatists who've spent about 1 billion less on players since he came to the country, I somehow think they'd be more expansive with the same budget.
Report Wesdag November 21, 2020 8:29 PM GMT
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 8:30 PM GMT
They wouldn't be. Managers get success from a certain way of playing and so they stick with it.

Moyes was hardly more expansive at Man United. He played low risk, keep it tight stuff, at Everton and has the same gameplan everywhere else.
Report ProSniper November 21, 2020 9:03 PM GMT
Borehinho is the #1 pragmatist. How much has that boring cunnt spent??
Report scandanavian_haven November 21, 2020 9:22 PM GMT
Most managers cut their cloth accordingly, some of the elder managers are of their generation with their 442's and whatnot,  Moyes is a typical dinosaur from that era. You give every manager the same budget and you wont get the same football, how could you, they'd be out of a job, just like Moyes was at United.
Report sparrow November 21, 2020 9:29 PM GMT
Funny how Moyes get into every conversation. Much better to talk about Guardiola and the other billion pound spenders who end up as failures.
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 10:46 PM GMT
I don't see evidence of this managers 'cutting their cloth accordingly'.

They have a way of playing that they stick with wherever. Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool played open and attacking, but he did the same at Swansea who were expected to be fighting relegation.

If Pulis was at Barcelona they would be keeping it tight and trying to score headers from set pieces.
Report scandanavian_haven November 21, 2020 11:11 PM GMT
he'd be sacked in a heartbeat, only managers who could go there are managers who agree to play a certain way, Mourinho at Porto was different to Mourinho at Chelsea, Chelsea were a very good attacking team, scored plenty of goals, and at Madrid, was different at United though, not sure why, think because he did not get the players he wanted, spent big but really wanted the likes of Bale at the time.
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 11:28 PM GMT
Mourinho game is based on solid defence and trusting 3 or 4 players to create and score. He has always had some plan of attack.

It's different from the outlook that you start with 0-0 and defend that while trying to nick a goal from a set piece.

Of course Pulis would never be given a job with a huge club, precisely because he wouldn't 'cut his cloth', but would stick to what has worked for him.

Because these managers that radically change up their styles epending on club don't really exist.

To be challenging for the title you need to win 3/4 of your games and the best way to do that is to have a gameplan that enables you to dominate almost every match. You cannot win at that rate if you are keeping it tight and trying to nick goals, as most of your games will be close and need incredible luck to win 75%.

Rodgers got the Liverpool job because they figured the way Swansea played, scaled up financially, could produce a title challenge level team, which it did for one season at least.
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 11:31 PM GMT
I think it's too soon to say about Pep, but you could be right, as most of the great managers only have 10 great years, and then what worked for them is figured out, or what worked was dependent on unique players that can't be replaced.
Report scandanavian_haven November 21, 2020 11:34 PM GMT
I'm not talking about managers suddenly making radical philosophical changes, you do have either a more offensive or defensive mindset but the point I was making is that managers do cut their cloth accordingly when playing teams with very big budgets, you see against City the last few years. If managers like Chris Wilder had as much money as Pep to spend and bought players of similar quality you are not going to get the same football match you'd have got beforehand.
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 11:39 PM GMT
Wilder has some radical ideas so could maybe do well at a higher level.

But the classic 40 point merchant is never going to play expansive football whether they have more or less money than the opposition.
Report scandanavian_haven November 21, 2020 11:44 PM GMT
You would find they would indeed play more attacking football with far higher quality players, Steve Bruce plays with 5 at the back at time, he would not be doing that with so much quality at say City.

Guardiola has a great record but it's not a coincidence he's managed Barca with Messi/Xavi/Iniesta/Henry/Eto'o etc, Bayern who'd just won the treble and City rich club on earth, and he's praised for not playing introvertedly lol.
Report tobermory November 21, 2020 11:51 PM GMT
Well I'm just saying I can't think of any examples of managers who managed at different levels adopted different styles.

Big Ron managed all sorts of clubs and always tried a fast attacking game, whether in title challenges or relegation battles.

If Pep was at Burnley he would be trying tiki taka. Not sure how well it would go but he wouldn't be parking the bus.
Report scandanavian_haven November 22, 2020 12:17 AM GMT
And I'm just saying Pep is a chequebook manager and millions of managers would play expansive given the money and players, Pep would soon be in league 2 playing tika taka with Burnley players
Report scandanavian_haven November 22, 2020 12:20 AM GMT
that's because managers rarely jump from shoestring budget to working under a multi billionaire!
Report scandanavian_haven November 22, 2020 12:21 AM GMT
I've also already said that yes manager have either offensive or defensive mindsets

but if Steve Bruch had the same budget and the same quality as Man City he would not be playing 5 at the back and would not stick 10 men behind the ball as happens on multiple occasions v them over the years.
Report tobermory November 22, 2020 12:39 AM GMT
He still would imo
Report Flemenstar May 4, 2021 10:02 PM BST
this guy can't stop talking about Pep!
Report scandanavian_haven May 4, 2021 10:07 PM BST
what was the purpose of bumping this thread, is it suppose to be some sort of counter argument or something. Must have taken you an age to find it.

they are topical, kept hearing he's the best ever, do not see the harm in debating that when it's not clear cut.
Report scandanavian_haven May 4, 2021 10:08 PM BST
'this guy' also makes salient points, (if I don't mind saying so myself), you are free to have your own opinion
Report Capt__F May 4, 2021 10:14 PM BST
if it city chelsea iwatching emmerdale farm omnibus
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