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tobermory
07 Aug 20 21:08
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Date Joined: 01 Mar 08
| Topic/replies: 53,381 | Blogger: tobermory's blog
Mention any great player of the last 30 years and you immediately remind people of a  game where they destroyed their opponents or singlehandedly saved the day in a hopeless position.....

Ronaldinho away to Real Madrid, Zidane v Brazil etc. Could even throw in Beckham v Greece.

UK pundits tell us Hazard is only a notch down from Messi, but what his is single epic game we will remember him for ? Destroying  West Ham on Monday Night Football is hardly the stuff of legend.

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Replies: 49
By:
tobermory
When: 07 Aug 20 21:09
He is 30 years old and Nicky Butt probably had more great games in the Champions League
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 07 Aug 20 21:15
scored a couple of goals in the Europa League final v Arsenal, couple of goals v Man City including the winner about 3 years ago, think he scored the equalising goal v PSG in a knockout game.
By:
tobermory
When: 07 Aug 20 21:17
If a Europa League Final is his claim to fame that proves my point.
By:
n88uk
When: 07 Aug 20 21:18
Only in England has Hazard ever been seen as world class. There was this exact debate before he went to Real Madrid where I said I can't really see him cutting it at Real Madrid was they won't stand for his choosing his moments which he has done throughout his career.

You have to question his mentality too given Real Madrid was meant to be his dream move and he turned up out of shape, doesn't exactly scream professional.
By:
n88uk
When: 07 Aug 20 21:23
Won't surprise me if Hazard enters into Coutinho no man's land anyway. His Real Madrid place is debatable already, and only going to get worse given the age of the replacements.

Real Madrid wage bill must be interesting when they have had Bale and Hazard sitting on the bench together a lot this season, probably on about a combined 1m a week.
By:
Capt__F
When: 07 Aug 20 21:25
was good tonight so quick i missed him
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 07 Aug 20 21:40
he's played about 5 full 90 minute matches all seasons, he obviously needs a long run of games to get match fitness, don't know why he turned up there fat tbh. He was in UEFA'a team of the year in 2 seasons running, was given the silver ball at the world cup, 2nd best player behind Modric, was in the fifapro team of the year twice as well.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 07 Aug 20 21:41
he's 29 btw not 30.
By:
Capt__F
When: 07 Aug 20 21:48
stone ?
By:
lurka
When: 07 Aug 20 21:50
Ronaldo and Messi are a hard act to follow. Media just dying for someone else to fawn over and with Ronaldo gone from the PL they were always going to have to find someone to laud as being worth £40 a month to watch and how we're all privileged to only have to pay that much to witness it.
By:
lurka
When: 07 Aug 20 21:56
It's the same now with De Bruyne. Hes not as good as he looks imo. The players make runs when the ball is on the way to him because they know he will look for that pass.You could see it tonight in the second half when Sterling got in around the back of Carvajal.

It's a routine they work on tirelessly in training but the media tell us it's all about his vision and Sterlings vision in making the run. He's never looked as good anywhere else. You could say the same about the entire Liverpool team. It is about advanced tactics of Pep and Klopp more than any of the players they have.
By:
Ibrahima Sonko
When: 07 Aug 20 22:04
The problem with hazard he only has one position, so a team has to be built around his narrowness.

De Bruyne is the best player on the planet bar messi.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 07 Aug 20 22:19
At Chelsea he looked supremely fit and was gliding through players and he was world class, at Madrid he's barely played half a season if that in games, and looks out of condition, so it's nothing to do with not being good enough for Madrid, it's seems to be something underlying.

One of football's mysteries is why Barca go out of their way to pursue players spedning a lot of money on them then underusing them before discarding them relatively quickly, like Fabregas, Turan, Coutinho, no doubt Griezmann will be offloaded soon.

De Bruyne is world class btw, forget vision, he still has to make those kind of passes and he has the technical ability to do it, even the assist at the Bernabau was world class, and that was vision you can't coach. Sterling imo is not world class, he has been improved immensely by Pep in terms of timing of runs, positional sense, passing and moving, creating space and pulling opposition defenders out of position etc, but De Bruyne has that next level technical ability that makes him stand out.
By:
lurka
When: 07 Aug 20 22:48
Yep De Bruyne has a good football brain alright. But he's the new chosen one by the media. No better than Hazard imo (at the minute he is of course). They make it sound like he's on the level of a Zidane/Iniesta but he's not.

He's the POTY in the PL but that doesn't mean he's on the level of other POTYs or past greats, just that he's better than his peers.

BTW there was fúck all 'vision' for his assist in the Bernebeu. It was a good cross into the box . He didn't calculate the exact height he'd have to float it to get it over the defender's head and onto Jesus'. He just floated it into the danger area like any winger playing a decent cross.
By:
lurka
When: 07 Aug 20 22:49
If it was the first cross ever played in a football match you might have a point.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 08 Aug 20 09:08
don't talk nonsense lurka, it was a great cross with great vision and ability. You make it sound like he just lumped it in their, it was a brilliantly weighted cross at a relatively tight angle. No player making any cross or shot calculates the height and distance to they, it's a sixth sense after years of playing football and honing their talent, they know roughly given the distance of the target how much power to put on it and how to hit hit, point of contact with the ball. De Bruyne is not the chosen one by the media, he's made himself the chosen one by being best player in the league. You're paranoid about the media.
By:
ericster
When: 08 Aug 20 09:15
Oxymoron alert imo.

I mean how bad can a [world-class player] be?

World class or not, now that's another topic.
By:
tobermory
When: 08 Aug 20 19:58
By your logic you could never have a debate such as 'who was the worst player to play for England? ' because they would have to be pretty good to get picked in the first place.

I am just saying that with most players regarded as world class there are games you can point to where they made all the difference when hardly anyone else could have. I just don't see that with Hazard.
By:
sofaking
When: 08 Aug 20 20:16
No. Pogba is the worst "world class" player in the world. Then again, does anyone actually consider Pogba to be world class/
By:
Capt__F
When: 08 Aug 20 21:46
world class to$$er yes
By:
ffaith
When: 09 Aug 20 09:23
To me pogba is still a great player.  He was playing some great football for a UCL club when a non UCL (at the time)came in with silly money.  Juve thought the offer too good to turn down and his agent stood to make obscene amounts in commission.
The move was about money not football.  It can be argued that neither the player or the clubs have benefited from the move. The only winner is his POS agent.
By:
sparrow
When: 09 Aug 20 11:11
Is there a list of these "world class players" available?
If not then I am unable to answer the question posed.
By:
n88uk
When: 09 Aug 20 20:10
Tbf Coutinho is/was meant to be world class in many circles so the answer is no.
By:
ericster
When: 10 Aug 20 11:32

Aug 8, 2020 -- 2:58PM, tobermory wrote:


By your logic you could never have a debate such as 'who was the worst player to play for England? ' because they would have to be pretty good to get picked in the first place.I am just saying that with most players regarded as world class there are games you can point to where they made all the difference when hardly anyone else could have. I just don't see that with Hazard.


Point taken, I guess.Blush

By:
G Hall
When: 10 Aug 20 11:54
They all receive world class pay cheques.
By:
darren_discombobulates_sports
When: 10 Aug 20 17:26
A 28 year old prime Coutinho would be a great asset for Arsenal.

The point tober makes about Hazard is not really relevant to being world class imo, you can see clearly when a player has world class ability, Hazard has that and did it consistently for Chelsea, true enough you maybe can't pinpoint big matches when he had memorable moments that often but criticism of him at Madrid is harsh, he's been injured, had no consistent run of matches let alone run of 90 min matches and maybe just like at Chelsea, coming into a team past their peak era.
By:
themightymac
When: 12 Aug 20 15:13
A duck egg cost a penny 10 years ago, now it costs 30p.

The market is bonkers, ruined by MONEY MONEY MONEY and we all know who to blame.
By:
TameTheTiger
When: 14 Aug 20 18:46
Beckham v Greece ??? If it wasnt for him running around like a headless chicken we wouldnt have needed a late equaliser. He missed about 20 free kicks before he eventually scored one.
By:
tobermory
When: 05 May 21 21:01
Sad
By:
REDROB
When: 05 May 21 22:42
If anyone in the PL should be classed as world class it's surely VVD at L'pool, his absence this year coupled with pools in and out form has if anything raised his profile. Don't have to be an attacker to be world class.
By:
tobermory
When: 05 May 21 22:58
I expect Real will be trying to offload him this summer.

As n88uk says, similar situation to Coutinho.
By:
tobermory
When: 05 May 21 23:02
And now he has been pictured laughing and joking with Chelsea players after the game and Real fans are seething.
By:
GAZO
When: 06 May 21 06:28
it looks like hazard and real madrid believed the hype
By:
rommel
When: 06 May 21 07:35
great shame to see a supreme player brought low like this
By:
Aspro
When: 06 May 21 09:13
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; beauty referring to footballing ability in this case.

Hazard was never up there with the best in my eyes. Good, when he wanted to be and borderline pretty decent, but FAR too inconsistent to be considered any better, yet some felt he WAS World Class.

Pogba is similar, but I rate his overall ability considerably higher than Hazard; I'm sure others would disagree with this too.

In other words, the World Class status is in your own heads with only a handful of players most of us would agree on.

Most professional exams in life require a pass mark of circa 80% so, using that as a benchmark I would suggest that if 80% agree to a player being considered World Class then that would be hard to argue with, even though someone always will.

I would be shocked if VVD was below 80% Redrob
By:
LOU MACARIS TARTAN B
When: 06 May 21 09:29
Don't agree with Aspro about Pogba being better than Hazard!

Shame really with Hazard it must be very frustrating for himself, the manager and fans as he used to be so good at Chelsea let's be honest yet since he's been at Real he hardly gets a mention.  I appreciate that he's been injured but last night he barely had a touch of the ball, did absolutely nothing.  Where does all of that talent go to?
By:
Aspro
When: 06 May 21 09:57
Based on that short survey I guess neither are hitting 80% then Grin
By:
Rider
When: 06 May 21 13:49
think going to either barca or madrid is a great test of whether a player is world class or not
By:
jollyswagman
When: 06 May 21 20:35
tobermory • August 7, 2020 10:17 PM BST
If a Europa League Final is his claim to fame that proves my point.


in your o p you mention, the definitely not world class, beckham scoring an equaliser against the mighty greece in a qualification game Crazy
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