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14 Jul 18 20:07
Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 55,133 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
How it used to be Love

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Report SirNorbertClarke November 27, 2023 9:37 AM GMT
duffy, our defence was all over the place in the first half. It was horrific to watch and we were extremely lucky to go into half time ahead. Against EVERTON!!!

It will be amazing if Newcastle don't score a hatful next weekend.

We play so many academy graduates because our transfer dealings have been so p!sspoor most of them are hiding in the treatment room.

We are 6th. Villa & spurs are ahead of us.

Yes I know some clubs are over the moon to be just outside the top 4 but we are Manchester United. We need to do so much better.
Report olddesperado November 27, 2023 10:47 AM GMT
One thing that went under the radar yesterday was Neville labelling Martial with a reputation for diving.
Martial might be a lot of things but diving is not one of them.

It drives me mad because he's now planted the seed in everyone watching yesterday including the refs.
Never mentioned mctoms stone wall penalty not even looked at.

Would he have labelled kane or Saka as divers,  absolutely not,  would he have labelled a city or Liverpool player a diver.
Absolutely not as pep and klopp would respond.

Ten hag needs to stand up and be counted on some of these small issues like Neville constantly playing down any decisions we should get and highlighting yet another penalty not only not given but not even looked at as they will bite us some day.

He really needs to be making issues of these things .
Report olddesperado November 27, 2023 10:50 AM GMT
Even the fact he was in the stands himself yesterday after 3 yellow cards,
I've never seen him say boo to a goose yet pep and klopp and the Arsenal lad go berserk from start to finish every game.
It's double standards plain and simple.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- November 27, 2023 3:17 PM GMT
Another win and another great goal.

A few goal of the season contenders
and only a third of season gone.

Garnacho likely winner but still prefer Bruno meself
from September.

Report Kardman November 27, 2023 3:57 PM GMT
Best result of the season so far and only 1 ETH signing in the starting  XI (Onana).
What does that tell us?
Report brentford November 27, 2023 4:10 PM GMT
In part it tells us Eriksen, Casemiro, Mount, Martinez and Hojlund were all injured...

I think we all know recruitment hasn't been good enough for some time and asome are keen to blame the manager for that but he shouldn't be in almost sole charge of recruitment - no other top club and indeed most club sides in the top divisions don't operate like that..

I actually think there's a positive in there somewhere as well -  that if you keep the right attitude and fight for your place you can win the manager over...Maguire, McTominay...

Just as an aside Onana now has the joint most clean sheets in the PL and the second highest save %

his XG is now in credit as well unlike plenty of other Premier League keepers....and yes I have just jinxed him brutally for the coming week...Cry
Report duffy November 27, 2023 5:09 PM GMT
I'm still nowhere near convinced by Onana, did make one particularly good save yesterday but he has a bad habit which XG will not reflect and that is him palming balls back into dangerous areas, he saved one yesterday but instead of tipping it round the post, it went back into play and had to be dealt with by a defender, noticed that a few times with him.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 28, 2023 10:26 PM GMT
You boys seem a decent price for the weekend? Newcastle down to the bones.
Report SirNorbertClarke November 28, 2023 10:39 PM GMT
If Newcastle can't beat United by themselves they can always call on the PGMOL players like they did against Arsenal.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 28, 2023 10:43 PM GMT
Ironic to call on officials cheating about an hour after they conceded THAT penalty against PSG.
Report SirNorbertClarke November 28, 2023 10:50 PM GMT
PSG v Newcastle is Oil State v Oil State

PS have been playing European football longer than Newcastle. My guess is right now the Qataris have better 'connections'
Report the_don November 28, 2023 10:52 PM GMT
Knew that pen would be given as soon as it happened due to it being a European match. Have seen loads of calls like that in the last year or 2 in Europe. I don't necessarily blame the ref or even VAR as they are obliged to follow the rules.

Newcastle easily beat us at OT in the Carabao fairly recently with a 2nd string weaker on paper than they'll have in Saturday. Looking at our away record which is brilliant against the lower half teams but dreadful against the top half, you get the feeling our good recent run of results (but not necessarily form) will end.
Report brentford November 28, 2023 11:04 PM GMT
yep, can't say I have much confidence in (Man) Utd turning them over...

fatigue might get to them (N'castle) with such a stretched squad if it stays tight but they have an extra day's rest and MU missing a few still in all likelihood...N'castle's first available XI still a very decent one....and one of the tougher away games on the calendar for anyone these days...

pools panel says....home win...(2-1)
Report the_don November 29, 2023 8:33 PM GMT
Some good points in that game and I think things look a little better than around a month or so ago, but it demonstrates how far we are off being a consistently good side.

Goalkeeper errors aside (and they were 2 bad ones), there's still no feeling of being in any kind of control even with a 2 goal lead. We don't have the players and aren't set up to keep the ball and take the sting out of games-it's chaotic and end to end and there are way too many open spaces.
Report brentford November 29, 2023 8:40 PM GMT
I think away at Gala' is fair not to control as one would like ...

but obviously the lack of quality in those areas show up week in week out to some extent..

Mainoo did well when he came on, a lot of subtle quality beyond his years...was surprised initially he didn't start but thinking of 3 big games in a week after a long lay off and limited prep in the age teams is probably right

tonight is only about Onana sadly (will please some) but can't gift 2 goals away from home like that...could have had 4 or 5 which is actually quite encouraging in light of goal scoring challenges...general work rate and attitude was excellent..quite rare to say that..
Report SirNorbertClarke November 29, 2023 9:22 PM GMT
Onana is yet another ten Hag transfer dud. My Nan could do better.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! November 29, 2023 9:24 PM GMT
Report brentford November 29, 2023 9:26 PM GMT
A fairly obvious option is to try and get Ramsdale on the cheap in the window.. 30m ?  would probably need to sell first and not blink when Arsenal try and hike it to 50m...
Report duffy November 29, 2023 9:59 PM GMT
brentford 29 Nov 23 20:40 
tonight is only about Onana sadly (will please some)

ooh you b1tchLaugh

Second half we were crying out for cool heads, make no mistake, as scary the thought that Galaasaray away from home is, in the last 20 minutes they were shot to bits, there legs when they had to run back toward their own goal were, were nowhere, it was all there for us to be able to help ourselves.

Back to Onansa, and I'd disagree that he was at fault for two goals as I'm putting the third one down to him to, his positioning was poor wth no awareness of where he was in relation to the goal, he was too far off his line, the boy had to shoot when he did as the defender had narrowed the angle, if Onana was back on his line he would have seen it and parried it, this one is being overlooked as the first too were so bad they are taking all the attention.
Report brentford November 29, 2023 10:07 PM GMT
you know I don't mean it...Love

but you are...Mischief

I think every keeper after a move to a big club deserves a chance at redemption...

seen enough GK dramas over the years not least at Utd...and he was well on the way to getting it...

today is that chance largely obliterated though - it's worth north of 10m potentially for a start..

he has the benefit of limited credible choices until the transfer window (Heaton a decent but ageing keeper ...the young Turkish lad Bayandir 5m read 2m true price anywhere other than top PL club..) so may get one last stay if flawless between now and Jan but that feels about it..
Report duffy November 29, 2023 10:22 PM GMT
The problem he's got now is that he has reached the point where, to rival fans, he's got the Maguire calamity moniker firmly attached to him and that is quite a burden.

I keep saying for me, it's not just the blatant gaffes, he looks all wrong when saving a shot, he reacts as if the first time he sees it is when it's upon him and he performs some kind of panicked leap at the ball, he often palms it back into dangerous areas, this is technical stuff that shouldn't happen to a top class keeper.

I'm staggered that DDG hasn't been offered a deal from someone, Joe Harte is still playing ffs!!!

When DDG left United he was still a top quality shot stopper which for many may clubs must still be the most important thing for a keeper, it must be a money thing and him not wanting to lower his sights.
Report SirNorbertClarke November 29, 2023 10:31 PM GMT
Maybe DdG is waiting for ten Heg to get the sack.

I think that could well be by Christmas.
Report brentford November 29, 2023 10:43 PM GMT
I mean it is partly DDG not taking poor options (he can have Saudi as and when chooses and MLS the the same)..but no top sides interested at the level he wanted...will probably either go back to Spain (mid table) or MLS I'd guess - his other half doesn't fancy Saudi by some accounts...

he could have had the Utd deal done long before the one he thought he'd agreed if he hadn't been bargaining for the extra money in about Jan-April of this year

but diving over one at West Ham in a critical game late last season ...and a very dubious effort at the early Citeh goal in the cup final plus plenty of mis-placed play outs that were 'seconds form disaster' get easily forgotten at times...I;ve said before he was unbelievable at one point...he hasn't been for 2 or 3 years and not going to get better...

Onana looks increasingly a bad choice...but remember Bosnich (was a top keeper never worked out ) Howard (very decent keeper - never worked out at Utd) , Taibi...Barthez was very erratic...

Bailey and Chris Turner both came under regular scrutiny... Jim Leigton who had a good career replaced for Cup Final replay by Les easy gigs for GK's at top clubs...
Report duffy November 30, 2023 4:09 AM GMT
ETH is stubborn, he will stand by Onana to the bitter end, what makes it all the more difficult for the manager is that it is not a simple case of dropping a player out of form, this has a far deeper meaning than that because this was a big judgment call to get him by the manager, it's up there with the Ronaldo and Sancho battles that he chose to wage war on.

If ETH has to back away from Onana he will be badly wounded, he'll feel he's pot committed to Onana.
Report PorcupineorPineapple November 30, 2023 8:11 AM GMT
I always thought of De Gea as someone who's not addicted to football. He was one of the best keepers in the world for a lot of years, and all when Utd were deep in the doldrums. He could easily have gotten a move somewhere to win trophies and play with the best but he was just happy picking up mega money and going back to his big house in Alderley Edge.

I reckon he's not massively arsed if he ever plays again really.
Report SirNorbertClarke November 30, 2023 3:39 PM GMT
Onana is a slow motion car crash.

No club or manager who was serious about winning silverware would select him even for the bench.

If Onana is the hill ten Hag has chosen to die on then he'll be gone before the end of the season.

This season is already a write-off.
Report SirNorbertClarke December 1, 2023 9:03 AM GMT
United being liked with Budesliga striker Serhou Guirassy who has scored 15 goals this season.

Newcastle are also said to be interested. If that is true then no way can United compete with an Oil State's tax-free bungs
Report 11kv December 1, 2023 9:25 AM GMT
Biggest club in the world ffs, what a shambles.....
Report SirNorbertClarke December 1, 2023 12:06 PM GMT
^^^^ 100% correct ^^^^
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 1, 2023 2:06 PM GMT

Report duffy December 2, 2023 10:05 PM GMT
If ETH survives can someone tell him to lose that dopey cap, he looks a right toolCry
Report tobermory December 2, 2023 10:13 PM GMT
Is Rashford thinking he can do what he likes because he is going to outlast ETH?
Report SirNorbertClarke December 2, 2023 10:18 PM GMT
Half the United players aren't putting in enough effort.

Rashford should have been sat in the stands weeks ago.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 2, 2023 10:55 PM GMT
That was a proper *manager now under threat" performance. How have Utd fallen so far behind so quickly?
Report SirNorbertClarke December 2, 2023 11:00 PM GMT
I think the war with Jordan Sancho was hugely damaging for EtH because Sancho was a very popular member of the squad. Half the team ain't putting the effort in to win balls. Even sh!t sides out fight us.
Report Tiger Tiger December 2, 2023 11:04 PM GMT
Arrogant tw@t, you are a sh!t side.
Report SirNorbertClarke December 2, 2023 11:13 PM GMT
^^^^ step aside lfc, betfair has a new village idiot ^^^^
Report Tiger Tiger December 2, 2023 11:18 PM GMT
You aint new.
Report Tiger Tiger December 2, 2023 11:18 PM GMT
But you are the forum/village idiot.
Report SirNorbertClarke December 2, 2023 11:21 PM GMT
The floor is all yours dumbo.
Report REDROB December 2, 2023 11:24 PM GMT
The last 2 Utd managers have been the worst in clubs history, the Olly must go brigade must be really proud.

ETH's transfers, team selections and substitutions are mind boggling.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 2, 2023 11:27 PM GMT
Not sure it's Sancho specifically. He showed how strong he was with Ronaldo and that was a positive move. But he is a strict disciplinarian and those types need to be winners. Otherwise what is the incentive in the players behaving themselves. Klopp is also the same and bombed Sakho out quickly for discipline reasons. He also pays real attention to dickhead reports on potential signings to avoid getting that type of player in. But the point is that Klopp's tactics and methodology work. The players might well get fed up at the amount of work, of being told to do certain things and behave in certain ways but they can see that they work. So they buy into it because they want to be successful and think he will achieve that for them.
Ten Haag seems to be the disciplinarian but can't back it up with results. So the players will give up on him. Cos they know that he'll be sacked before they are. But that was dismal tonight. Really really poor. Forget that it was just 1-0. It was a Newcastle team that was unchanged for ages with nothing on the bench. Other teams would have managed the game to tire them and exploit gaps but instead they were just allowed to dominate the game from the start.

It might take another couple of weeks and the CL place to be confirmed over, but I think this game has confirmed that he's finished.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 2, 2023 11:33 PM GMT
Mainoo looks a decent prospect, confidence and maturity.

Why rashford on right?, he's better on left, and garnacho
a passenger.

Hojlund and Anthony looked more up for it.

Maguire and shaw too far apart and not on same page,
causing problems for your full backs.
Report REDROB December 2, 2023 11:44 PM GMT
Had 2 fit centre halves and the 2nd choice left back on bench yet plays Shaw at CH and Dalot at right back where he has Almaron and trippier to contend with.

Rashfords been naff whichever side he plays on this season. In Istanbul Garnacho had the run of the left side and was subbed when 2 up to be replaced by Pellistri who usually plays on the right.

And how Martial keeps getting in is a mystery. Ironic that 2 players who seem to be putting the effort in this season are the 2 he tried to offload to West Ham.
Report REDROB December 2, 2023 11:44 PM GMT
I mean Dalot at left back.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 3, 2023 12:05 AM GMT
Full backs ain't got a chance if centre halfs let
Wingers run where they want by dropping deep on their own.

Manager needs defence coach to sort them into a unit.
Report brentford December 3, 2023 1:07 AM GMT
The last 2 Utd managers have been the worst in clubs history, the Olly must go brigade must be really proud.

Was fairly obvious Ole had to go (much as I like him) as the players had completely downed tools on him and he had no credible CV from which to win back any credit...

even his achievements were pretty limited if you're suggesting Ten Hag is somehow significantly inferior...

Ole took over from Jose when 6th and finished 6th ...

finished 3rd with only 18 wins and 66pts (a weak PL year)   (Ten Hag 75 pts last season in a stronger PL)

the only good season was the covid year (2nd) played in front of near empty stadiums where pressure barely existed in what felt like training games..

and then left with them in 6th after being battered 4-1 by Watford which Ralf kept them in...
Report brentford December 3, 2023 1:16 AM GMT
*left them 7th Ralf moved them up one..
Report duffy December 3, 2023 1:21 AM GMT
That was the worst we've seen because of a few things, up until now even through poor play you never thought that there wasn't just a little chance that something might come our way in a game, tonight we looked like we were just waiting to be beat from the very start and it was just a matter of time until they scored and as soon as they did it was all over as you never thought there was even a remote chance of us scoring.

It put to an end of any turning of the corner notion, as someone said above, it might take a little while longer but that was the end for ETH tonight.

Outworked and bullied throughout, very sad to watch.
Report brentford December 3, 2023 1:38 AM GMT
was certainly an awful performance..

context would be of 3 aways in less than a full week is pretty tough sledding but doesn't excuse that level of performance...

N'castle are a a very decent side - already done Arsenal and Chelsea..should have done L'pool (but missed some big chances @1-0..)

refreshing to finally see Rashford being called out both on MOTD and the live coverage...embarrassing levels of effort doesn't even begin to cover it...and a lot of the problems came from that...lack of counter threat @ 0-0 was certainly a concern as well that should be a minimum with that front 3 but we're asking Mainoo to already dominate MF in big games away from home - that's probably not realistic...Bruno wasn't great tonight but can't always carry it and should have seen at least one yellow for Schar with a beautifully cynical foul on the counter (which I'm not knocking him for) plus the slightly dubious studs on ankle (not intented so  maybe not red but probably was a yellow)...
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 3, 2023 1:46 AM GMT
On another night schar and maguire would have seen 2 yellows

Of course they behave differently after one.

Had a good view on Schar pro foul and it's a yellow
all day. Didn't really see second one until tv tonite
and he stood on him which has been variously viewed by
var over last season. Var can't give yellow, whivh
is clear point of laws that needs to be corrected at some point.

But ref seemed pretty much in control and called out dives
and allowed a game.
Report olddesperado December 3, 2023 2:14 PM GMT
Probably the worst performance I've ever seen from a united team.
Worse than any of the 6-1s or the 7-0 where at least we were in the games for a while.
We were out run , out fought, out thought , out everything tbh.

I'm not sure what ten hag was watching but how could a few of those come out for the second half.

The lack of effort from Rashford was disgusting and mctom wasn't much better.
Martial away to an aggressive team on a Saturday night,  come on.

Second to every ball and losing every challenge other than McGuire and Shaw.

It's probably looking like ten hag is not good enough but he absolutely has to stay for another while to see off the mctoms and Sancho's and Rashford's of this world.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 3, 2023 2:32 PM GMT
You were far worse last season at sjp.
Report olddesperado December 3, 2023 2:37 PM GMT
I don't know about that yhtl.

I just know I've never watched a game so one sided with total dominance in every aspect.
I've never watched and said what am I doing watching these knunts going through the motions  again.

They don't care and need to be purged from the club.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! December 3, 2023 2:44 PM GMT
tHEY only work from
Report Tiger Tiger December 3, 2023 3:11 PM GMT
Wor youngster reported not a Man U fan seen anywhere in Newcastle pre match, were the London trains delayed?
Report SirNorbertClarke December 3, 2023 3:12 PM GMT
Maybe some of the players have had their heads turned by the money they can earn elsewhere.
Report olddesperado December 3, 2023 3:18 PM GMT
With the exception of Rashford non of those would be wanted in SA.

And that's just for his name not his football.
Report PorcupineorPineapple December 3, 2023 8:17 PM GMT
3/4 of that team should have stayed in Turkey last week cos that's their level.
Report olddesperado December 4, 2023 10:18 AM GMT
Marcus's PR in overdrive yesterday after the TV pundits and written media finally couldn't ignore his stinking attitude.

Pictures released of him working at a food bank and giving everyone a tenner out of his pocket.

He'd have to dole out 35,000 tenners to drop a weeks wages to the poor.

Give a hundred grand to the centre( that he could write off a big % against tax) and it would surely have more benefit to the poor but that doesn't look as saintly I'm afraid.

I personally think he's a fraud off the pitch as well as on it.
Report olddesperado December 4, 2023 1:08 PM GMT
I might have an apology to make to Marcus,
There's suggestions the pic and reports are fake.

I'm sure I read it was reported in the athletic and they are usually fairly accurate but maybe not on this occasion.
Report lurka December 4, 2023 1:15 PM GMT

Dec 3, 2023 -- 9:12AM, SirNorbertClarke wrote:

Maybe some of the players have had their heads turned by the money they can earn elsewhere.

Virtually none of them can earn more elsewhere unless they run down their contract. That's why they're so hard to shift. Maguire on 190k a week - who else will pay him that? West Ham reportedly offered 120k for 4 years and Maguire wanted 14m to leave, which equals the 70kpw shortfall for 4 years, even tho he only had 2 years left on his United contract. United reportedly offered him the full shortfall of 7m and he said no. An extortionate and shameless demand if true.

Report REDROB December 4, 2023 1:43 PM GMT
Ruddy contracts. In the majority of jobs if you're carp at your job you're gone, if you make a mistake that costs your company millions in lost revenue you're gone.
Report duffy December 4, 2023 5:16 PM GMT
Yeah, if you commit gross misconduct you're gone, Onana has committed that half a dozen times so far this seasonLaugh
Report SirNorbertClarke December 4, 2023 5:38 PM GMT
Virtually none of them can earn more elsewhere unless they run down their contract.

Jordan Henderson gets £700,000 a week tax free.

Rashford on £350,000 a week at OT probably takes home just shy of £200k after the image rights fiddle.

Let's face it, Marcus is not going to pick up any silverware at OT
Report SirNorbertClarke December 4, 2023 5:40 PM GMT
The Saudis are reported to have offered John Rahm £470m (yes very nearly half a billion!!) to join the LIV golf tour.
Report olddesperado December 5, 2023 1:30 PM GMT
All kicking off.
Ten hag apparently lost the confidence of senior players over tactics.
Lost the confidence of snowflakes over treatment of Sancho and lost the confidence of Rashford and Martial for being asked to run around.

The club have banned the Manchester evening news and two other outlets from the press conference today.

Nemanja Matic claims players were always late for training at united with him taking over enforcing punctuality and dishing out fines totalling 75k on season.
Sancho and Pogba labelled the worst offenders.

The club is a sh1t show.
Report REDROB December 6, 2023 7:23 PM GMT
Rashford & Martial benched.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 6, 2023 7:45 PM GMT
At sjp you could see the increase in work rate from
Hojlund and Anthony, but without the midfield joining in.

Interesting to see if they can get that workrate and press
and spread it throughout team.
Report SirNorbertClarke December 6, 2023 8:20 PM GMT
Rashford needed benching in early September. Martial should have been sold last season. Neither should have a future at OT.
Report REDROB December 6, 2023 8:26 PM GMT
shame, he could've took that pen
Report 11kv December 6, 2023 9:07 PM GMT
Onana the banana,great goal mind..
Report olddesperado December 7, 2023 10:51 AM GMT
Best performance of the seas8n so far.

In fact the 3 best performances this season have come with Rashford out.

Brilliant effort from everyone last night and the chances flowed and although we didn't take them you'd like to think of we keep creating that amount the confidence in front of goal will return.

It was interesting to watch Rashford come on for last 13 minutes and after the amount of critisism he took all week he still didn't bother to come out of a jog.

Twice Bruno ran past him to close down and Garnacho who was out in his feet did the same going back on one occasion.

Rashy continued to jog.
Report duffy December 7, 2023 4:21 PM GMT
Energy effort energy effort, how refreshing, the problem is that it just brings into stark focus the times when there isn't any.

What we also need to see is that same energy and effort when we fall behind instead of heads dropping.
Report Tiger Tiger December 7, 2023 6:54 PM GMT
I see Man U longest standing sponsor Mohammed bin Salman, the butcher of Riyadh,  met and shook hands with evil dictator Vladimir Putin today.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 7, 2023 6:59 PM GMT
The one sponsoring man utd via new owners cycling team?
Report brentford December 7, 2023 7:02 PM GMT
very decent performance but an easy fixture to get a reaction in...first home game for a while, evening kick off against a big side, and players stung by media reaction to N'castle game.

as des' - it's fairly obvious that it's easier to get a high energy performance minus Marcus ... as not only is the tone set by his poor effort but players see little value in making the high press with intensity if one player isn't putting it it ceases to worked superbly last night...

certainly didn't look a team that had quit on the manger though - but have to now back it up against a very improved B'mouth..
Report SirNorbertClarke December 7, 2023 7:10 PM GMT
Imitation is often described as the sincerest form of flattery but for Tiger Tiger and his lonesome brain cell it's a necessity.
Report Tiger Tiger December 7, 2023 7:18 PM GMT
Then stop being a knob then knobby.
Report brentford December 7, 2023 7:36 PM GMT
Not often I'm with GN but this is spot on...

Gary Neville “When I heard these stories coming out, I thought here we go again, the f*ckers.  They’re going to try and get another manager sacked,  another group of players thrown out. You know it’s happening you can tell it’s sorta been fed, I thought stop winging, shut your mouths and work as hard as you can.” [The Overlap]
Report olddesperado December 7, 2023 7:57 PM GMT
The thing is Brentford it looks like he's wrong.

They didn't look like a team happy to see off the manager last night.

As you said above it's easier to press and put teams under pressure without Marcus .

The PL is so strong now that one cog not putting in the effort or doing their job gets exploited and makes us so easy to play against.

Would also explain why so many of Rashford's goals come in EL or domestic cup game's against lower div teams or weakened Top tier sides.

It's easier carry someone against these sides .

I really think he's a big problem for us and the infuriating thing is I think he will start him Saturday to give Gnashers a rest we will be told.
Report brentford December 7, 2023 8:16 PM GMT
the leakers... assuming there are (or is) and that it's not just total bs are always going to inflate the %  of players sharing their view...but in most dressing rooms there's a lot that can be easily lead one way or t'other...depending who they think will win out or just weakness of personality (and we know there's a few of them)

Managers that reward training effort and don't shut doors on players bar Sancho for good reason typically have a chance to re-invent the team a bit..last night maybe proof of that but as referenced that was quite an easy game for any player to put it in (or risk OT turning on them not the manager)...and the Rashford decision at the weekend is big as is Marcus respsonse....

I (and I'm guessing you share this view) just don't think Marcus is going to change...he'll maybe up for it for a game or two and then revert to type...maybe quicker if results/performances aren't great...manager (who I;ve generally sided with as you) has the moment to potentially make this work but feels like a coins toss as to whether he does or not...and part of that is no more special treatment of Marcus...
Report SirNorbertClarke December 7, 2023 9:39 PM GMT
United's season has been sh!t, an embarrassing farce yet we are 6th, just ahead of the world's richest club and just 3 points behind Manchester Cheats!
Report brentford December 7, 2023 9:44 PM GMT
you're old enough not to just expect success to fall in your lap...few too many on this thread been spoilt in the Fergie years..

seasons are 38 games not 5 or 10...judge the seasons work...not just Utd but anybody...Utd had loads of injuries early on...Spurs and Newcastle now..and Chelsea..
Report olddesperado December 7, 2023 10:28 PM GMT
Yep agree with all of that 8:16 post Brentford.

What I don't get is when Marcus first came in the side his workrate was phenomenal.
But somewhere along the ole reign his effort dropped and the non tackling walking Marcus appeared.
Hard to know exactly why but if I had to guess I'd say entitlement and believing his own hype.
Some believe he has a playing clause in his contract but I doubt it very much but I would say the club hierarchy egged on by sponsors put pressure on our managers to play him.

I think ETH will live or die on how he negotiates this conundrum.
Report brentford December 7, 2023 10:41 PM GMT
yep, likewise...would never have believed I'd have to worry about his attitude and work rate when first seeing him..

as I've said before on here...he still comes across as very grounded, humble etc in interviews ...but it's either an act, or he doesn't love football (some don't) or he genuinely thinks he's the English Mbape - in which case he needs a reality check..

I'll never knock his lack of goals or assists in the short term...but the bare minimum both is and needs to be work rate these days...few players love that aspect ( a few weirdos) but it has to be the minimum to play...and the Gala' performance (only undone by GK errors) and Chelsea last night are such proof of how much difference it makes...

I notice Scotty made a point of referencing 'light training' ahead of the game...ETH when asked about that said that's always the case when game loads are heavy...truth maybe somewhere in between....maybe Eric is learning a bit along the way as well...wouldn't be unreasonable..
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 7, 2023 11:00 PM GMT
The heavy training is done before these
periods of 3 games a week as prep, then
you simply can't.

Ovett and Coe pushed training as athletes and
had spells of a month or so at peak when training
was light and world records were chased.

They were running 800m/1500m 2 or 3 times
a week, without getting kicked (usually)

The work rate required now in prem league is
phenomenal, you need to be mo farah, and he
was another one who worked to peaks, not 40odd
peaks a year.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 7, 2023 11:03 PM GMT
Rashford looked happiest at sjp when he shook
hands with Lascelles before game.

He got off pitch quickly enough too when subbed.

Doesn't look a happy bunny, hope he's OK, but clearly
not enjoying his football like he did last season.
Report brentford December 7, 2023 11:08 PM GMT
that's the thing though yh' - he didn't actually look 'happy' when it was going very well in general last season and for all his end product last year..his effort levels were still off, body language was poor...obviously when you produce there's a lot less scrutiny...but he hasn't looked a happy bunny for years...
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 7, 2023 11:23 PM GMT
Yeah, I didn't see him as much as you.

Tend to see his highlites which obviously were great.

Maybe he needs to look at prem league and think this
isn't me.... Perhaps Germany, France, or Spain, or Italy may suit his game
better, and that's not trying to be cruel or nasty

He's still just mid 20s so could still pick it up,
but if he doesn't want a helter skelter game then
he's in wrong league.

Might even look at usa...
Report brentford December 7, 2023 11:30 PM GMT
could see PSG suiting him...but  his value must have taken a hit after this start and do any top sides still want him even on current output ? ...depends if sensible prices can get done..wages a bit of a prob now as well after getting his big contract renewal...

would love to see him turn it round @ OT but can't really see it beyond brief moments...was set up perfectly for a big year and whiffed..
Report duffy December 8, 2023 6:55 AM GMT
brentford 07 Dec 23 21:44 
you're old enough not to just expect success to fall in your lap...[i]few too many on this thread been spoilt in the Fergie years..


oops, there we are againLaugh

I wouldn't confuse criticism of the team when it's been warranted, as it has been lately with spoiled fans voicing a sense of entitlement.

I wanted to insert an emoji for the first part of the sentence about being old enough but they haven't got an emoji that represents patronising Laugh
Report brentford December 8, 2023 6:12 PM GMT
it's not intended to be but yourself and Norbert have been after Ten Hag since the start of the season which feels unreasonable to me and after Saturday Rob suggesting he's along with Ralf the worst manager the club has ever had...and yet here we are 3 points of City and 3 points off a CL place....
Report brentford December 8, 2023 6:31 PM GMT
just been voted Manager of the Month incidentally...not that I'd claim that counts for a lot but gives some perspective to their PL form at least...
Report brentford December 8, 2023 6:32 PM GMT
It is the third time Ten Hag has won the award, adding to his prizes from September 2022 and February 2023. Only Sir Alex Ferguson, with 27, has won it more times as Man Utd manager.

The Dutchman is one of 32 managers in Premier League history to win as many as three Barclays Manager of the Month awards.
Report REDROB December 8, 2023 6:38 PM GMT
I would love to be wrong about him brentford, but his transfers in and suggested ones out leave an awful lot to be desired. And the fixture list in November was very kind to us.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- December 8, 2023 7:35 PM GMT
Onana continues to shine statistically, despite the errors.

André Onana's rank among goalkeepers in the Premier League this season (min. 2 starts):

1st - Clean sheets (5)
1st - Save percentage from shots outside box (100%)
2nd - Save percentage (75.7%)
4th - Goals prevented (3.8)
Report grumpyjim December 8, 2023 10:42 PM GMT
playing out from the back nearly 100 per cent   ..    with confidence ?  the future is only way to go ..players have  no hiding place   ,and in mix all the game ..  no hiding place  no slacking .. De Gea   ... Inability to play out from his box , caused the downfall for the lad . No fault We know it happens .. Great stopper ,, no qualms about that ......   Team work required to do a different job on the hallowed turf ,,  thats where wee as UNITED  need to address   sooner than later ..  TEAM READING OFF THE SAME HYMN SHEET ..  as a UNIT  .. 26 players to fix out .. not just them on the park .. All in    .....  ..   OR  All OUT .   Take TIME  .. hey we have done 10 plus years already . No Longer keep on about past managers we have had them all  ,,,I have lost count .. ?  Rooney  A Top asset ,, Finding Dugout a Special place .. to be on your own ..Best Wishes with THAT  . ..VERY TOUGH GOING  ??  .. very hard game if  not   going too well ... .......
Report the_don December 9, 2023 1:38 PM GMT
A good attacking performance against Chelsea but lots of gaps in midfield, particularly in the 1st half. Similar to the Galatasaray away game, made for good viewing but you feel it isn't sustainable or will give any consistency.

McTominay with a couple of goals and could have had more. Unfortunately he is now in the Bruno category of 'can only show his strengths in a specific position which then weakens the rest of the team'.
Report SirNorbertClarke December 9, 2023 2:54 PM GMT
Rashford on the bench. Should be in the stands for me.

Antony starts. Why not Pellistri?
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