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14 Jul 18 19:07
Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 55,133 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
How it used to be Love

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Report olddesperado September 12, 2021 11:44 AM BST
Yep pretty good analysis don.

The midfield is a big concern .

Even with our defence strengthened we could have conceded 4 or 5 to a poor side yesterday.

Wan bissaka is gone backwards and Maguire is poor enough at the moment.

Because of the personnel we currently have I'd go back to a double pivot unfortunately.

Pogba Bruno Ronnie and one other in the front 4 and 2 of Fred matic or mctom behind.

Yesterday proved again even against the weakest teams we are vulnerable with just one holder and the last 5 years have shown us Pogba is wasted there.

Ronnie was a lot more mobile than I'd seen of him recently.
Report the_don September 12, 2021 12:54 PM BST
I've said before I'd only play Pogba in a more attacking role. You wouldn't move Bruno, van de Beek or Lingard back to play there. There will hopefully be big games later on where players will have to be left out but until then rotation and less reliance on a small number of players is a difference we need from the last season or 2.

I'd like to see a slight change where the help for the right winger comes from a midfielder getting forward rather than Wan Bissaka. Opposition are still letting him have the ball and surely we're better if he stays back or covers the middle while a player with more threat gets further forward. He (AWB) stays back to cover on corners etc and though he's improved a bit going forward his pace and 1 on 1 ability defensively means it's a bit of a waste him going forward.
Report the_don September 12, 2021 12:59 PM BST
Ronaldo seems to be one of the most professional players there is and you'd like to think he's got a point to prove in coming back and hearing a few doubters. I certainly don't get the feeling he's here purely for a final big payday.

I actually think he'll improve is most in games like yesterday, to bag goals against the weaker opposition we should be beating, rather than getting goals against the top sides.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 12, 2021 1:41 PM BST
These days I don't think Ronaldo needs to play football for the money. I think it's all about goals.

Against the top sides such as City & Liverpool we usually play a counterattacking game and I'm not sure Ronaldo could beat VvD or Dias from the half-way line.

But if we are to challenge for the title we need to beat all the teams other than City & Liverpool so we do need Ronaldo's insane desire to score goals.

Nowadays he may be a flat-track bully but he's our flat-track bully Grin
Report HallGreenSpy September 13, 2021 12:03 AM BST
The man scores goals simple. Even simpler when the opposition goalie gives em on a plate but you have to be there. He'll do well and if you can scroll back far enough you will see I said I dreaded the day when he came back. Still, there is enough shortfalls in the team to compensate I hope.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 1:07 PM BST
There can be no excuses tonight.  If you're thinking you're one of the best half a dozen teams in it and in with some chance of possibly even winning the trophy then surely you have to beat the mighty 'Young Boy's' by two or three tonight.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 3:29 PM BST
If Ronaldo starts, he scores.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 14, 2021 5:28 PM BST
The don

Newcastle goalie is always like that
(when I've seen him) odd to watch, just looks
to freeze. Needs to wake up if hes
to make it.

Was even worse in league cup
at home at 0-0

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 8:01 PM BST
Well what can I say.

Yes it's very hard to play with a man down for two thirds of the game away from home and to be fair to them I thought Young Boys looked as decent side rather than the cannon fodder I thought they'd be.  I think they'll give anyone a game, looked decent.

Thought it a bit harsh on Wan Bissaka though, yes it was a foul and yes it looked quite nasty but I don't think he meant it, specially him he hardly even ever fouls anyone he's just not that type.  Suppose to the ref had to send him off though and after that United were swamped and just trying to hold on.

5th minute of injury time though again hard to take though again to be fair how many times have United got late goals.

So summing up a terrible result I thought United were looking quite good till the sending off.  Ronaldo scores again (what's new) and Sancho for the half an hour he was on was rubbish .......... what's new.
Report salmon spray September 14, 2021 8:06 PM BST
Is this Sancho a dud or is he "settling-in" ?
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 14, 2021 8:58 PM BST
Excellent game management from the boss. Sending off, he makes some changes to ensure Utd aren't overrun. Result? Utd utterly overrun.
Report cruso September 14, 2021 9:14 PM BST
Sancho, Pogba & Lingard all at Parklife on Saurday night.
Make of that what you will but wouldn`t have been allowed in Fergies day.

A bit worrying how Utd capitulated after the red card.
Varane a bit slow for the equalizer I think..
Lingards back pass from 30 yards though a crowd of players was just criminal and in in the dying seconds too.
He should be left behind and exiled to the top of an Alp..
There is just no logic in that.
Once again we lose away to the `weakest` team in the group.
Having said that the manager picked the team and made the vital substitutions & tactical changes and the buck stops with him.
Surely they practice this sort of situation in training..
Report rommel September 14, 2021 9:35 PM BST
LOU MACARI WORLD..... I think they'll give anyone a game, looked decent.
Report GLASGOWCALLING September 14, 2021 10:04 PM BST
  .... Scored in Fergie Time. ...

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:20 PM BST
Salmon spray 14 Sep 21 19:06 

Is this Sancho a dud or is he "settling-in" ?

No he's a Dud I'm afraid.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:21 PM BST

Yes OGS made the awful pass back in the final minute so it's his fault.

Oh hang on a minute?
Report lurka September 14, 2021 10:39 PM BST
OGS fault for going into yet another season without a midfield partnership that works. Sign all the strikers and centre halves you want, you are not going to bridge the gap with those midfielders. It's been like that from day 1 since he took over and he didn't even try to address it this summer despite spending big. He's happy with Fred, Pogba, Matic and McTominay in central midfield. That is 100% on him.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:46 PM BST

How do you know he's happy with them and what about Bruno isn't he our main attacking midfielder?  He's overrated granted but he's decent isn't he?

He was probably after Grealish, the Spanish guy who plays for Athletico, possibly Rice too (who I don't rate myself he's just another stopper) so again if the club won't pay the money or the players don't want to come how's that Ole's fault?

They've had a good start in the league and surely it was no way his fault they had a man sent off and Lingard gave them the winning goal in injury time?

Come on be fair.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 10:49 PM BST
A top team would have seen that out.

Great to see all the haters loving it; proves theirs are still little clubs.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:52 PM BST

Very harsh on us with the very last second after a shocking individual mistake.  Just don't see how everyone seems to want to blame OGS for everything.

It rained all day today was that OGS fault too?
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 11:03 PM BST
It's OGS's job to ensure the team (and I mean the coaches too) know what to do after a defensive or attacking red card.

Every game should have a Risk Assessment and migrations.

One of those mitigations should be when playing around the box with seconds to go stick the ball in row Z asap.
Report lurka September 14, 2021 11:24 PM BST
Be fair? He's had 3 summer windows now. He's watched Herrera go to PSG and didn't replace him and has spent all his money on strikers, wingers and centre halves and he's spent a lot. Midfield is the most important area of the pitch and is all about a partnership of players which compliment each other and who can start attacks and protect the defence at the same time and control the game.

United were crying out for a top class midfielder since before he arrived. That's why they signed the likes of Herrera, Fred, Pogba etc. They haven't had a functional central midfield for a decade. You can assume that it's all down to the board not buying who he wanted or players not wanting to come but given the type of players he's brought in, the money he's spent and using occam's razor, it is safer to assume that he doesn't have a clue how to build a proper central midfield partnership. The fact that he again spent big on Ronaldo and Varane and went into the season with the same 4 CMs tells you that.

I'm not talking about where Bruno plays. I'm talking about the two he usually plays in front of the defence. Bruno does not play in that area. He plays in the opposition half. You are talking about two from Pogba, Matic, Fred, McTominay and no combination of them provides the right balance. It's either lacking in the offensive or defensive department or both. Rice would be a massive improvement on the last 3 of those. So would even the likes of Doucoure or Ndidi. It's about getting someone like that who will mop up and let Pogba free to do his thing or else getting two new midifelders and playing pogba elsewhere in a different system. Fred is a disaster and should have been replaced in his first window.

It seems he has a complete blindspot for that area of the pitch because he's ignored it repeatedly while repeatedly spending to bolster his attack and defence. You have to assume he thinks it's working at this stage.
Report HallGreenSpy September 15, 2021 11:59 AM BST
Bit early to be calling sancho a dud I reckon. It's not the Bruno attacking midfield position that is the problem. It's the defensive holding midfield position that United have yet to address. imo.
Report duffy September 15, 2021 4:14 PM BST
Young Boys 2
Old Man 1

Personally I think that Ronnie coming in and taking the role of player manager which, like it or not is what he is, will prove beyond him.

What it will do though is hasten the departure of OGS because once the sh1t really hits the fan that dressing room, with it's current inhabitants will become toxic and he is simply not big enough of a character to be able to hold any semblance of control.

Back to the weekend and the most notable image for many United fans would have been the sight of Ronaldo walking out at OT but it really wasn't.

The sight of any member of the Glazer family taking his seat at OT a mere few months ago would have been unthinkable, but there he was on Saturday proud as punch and no doubt musing to himself that everyone has their price and by producing the fatted calf he had achieved it.
Report PLACEWISE September 15, 2021 4:48 PM BST
Look like a decent bet to lift Europa league possibly
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:18 PM BST

So where is your actual factual evidence that Ronaldo is now 'The Player Manager'?

What a load of of fcukin tosh.  Yes he's a big character of course but OGS is the manager of Manchester United Football Club.  Now that is a FACT.

Stop talking nonsense man ffs
Report rommel September 15, 2021 5:37 PM BST
agree entirely with LOU,wtf are you lot on,CR is a player,one of the worlds greats coming to the end of his career,so he just marches into OT n takes over?
Report brentford September 15, 2021 5:38 PM BST
The United think tank when 1-0 up and with 10 men made the inspired choice of leaving both Ronaldo and Pogba on, neither of whom cover anything like enough ground to be viable at that stage , finally made the required sub when it was already too late by bringing off the wrong one Ronaldo (1-1) - probably didn't dare do it earlier anyway and left Pogba on to the end !! trotting about like a low key training session ...the Lingard error was unfortunate though notably occurred as a result of him playing in an unfamiliar role and in many ways was justice for the gross mis-management of the game by the three wise monkeys...
Report duffy September 15, 2021 5:39 PM BST

Try not to take everything too literal, I was indicating that IMO, if and when things really go south Ole will be overcome and won't be able to control these "type" of players and if he actually finds himself in a direct confrontation with Ronaldo he will lose the battle he certainly won't get any support from the board, just as Mourinho, a far bigger character lost out in  his battle with Pogba.

If it was up to him I don't think Ole would have had Ronaldo anywhere near the place.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 5:44 PM BST
why does anyone assume that CR will go into management,he's a billionaire-doesnt need the aggro
Report duffy September 15, 2021 5:50 PM BST
rommel 15 Sep 21 16:37 
agree entirely with LOU,wtf are you lot on,CR is a player,one of the worlds greats coming to the end of his career,so he just marches into OT n takes over?

Uh, yes,

The United dressing room is rudderless, what do you think will happen when a club legend and perhaps the biggest personality and ego in word football waltzes back into the club, oh and as far as the board are concerned a walking money making machine?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:51 PM BST

But that's all just your opinion.

I could say "I think that Ole thinks it's the best decision in the history of football to have Ronaldo back" which is completely contradictory to what you say.

ffs stick to the facts.

Defender sent off ......... your fault? No.  My fault? No.  OGS fault ............. NO!

Lingard back pass.......... your fault? No.  My fault? No.  OGS fault ............. NO!

I've had trouble with my car today .............. must be OGS fault!
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:53 PM BST
I can't see what rommel writes but on this occasion I can where you've cut and pasted it.

For once I agree with him.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 6:06 PM BST
CR should have walked away from real or even juve and said thats it but he's taken one more bite and the denouement may not be pretty....
Report duffy September 15, 2021 6:06 PM BST
Yes, only my opinion.

Ronaldo's return has nothing to do with long term thinking and everything to do with commercial gain and with the added bonus of paying off many disgruntled fans.

For instance we will have to take for granted that Greenwood's now stunted progress on the playing field will be made up for by what he "learns" from Ronaldo on the training ground.

By the way, I hope it all works out but I can see a potential bigger downside just waiting to play out.

None of Ronaldo's arrival is going to help out just how bad we are when we lose the ball and that's the biggest problem we have.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 6:09 PM BST
the shirt sales might dry up when the make-up starts flying out the handbag
Report SirNorbertClarke September 15, 2021 8:14 PM BST
josé mourinho @KingMourinho CONTE IS LITTERALLY UNEMPLOYED !!??? @ManUtd

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.

Last night was a complete ****how. No way can we challenge for titles if we can't shut-up shop against teams like Young Boys.
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 6:02 AM BST
" that's football for you,  we learn from this and we go again ".

" we're improving year on year but we're not there yet "

" christianio was lonely on his own,  I suppose I could have moved a midfielder nearer to him "

Some nuggets from our esteemed manager Tuesday night.
Report rommel September 16, 2021 6:27 AM BST
when Ole first came in i thought his inanity was concerning,platitudes that might've pushed utd  fans buttons yep but drivel all the same,i think his thinking is a mush of not selection formation tactics....selction of subs and their timing...
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 10:43 AM BST
The next two CL games will tell us a lot about solskaer and his philosophy on the team and improving the players available to him.

Both are at home and the rational thing would be to go like for like and give Dalot a chance to prove himself up to pushing a regressing AWB.

However his mindset is to only trust a very small core of senior players and for that reason I feel he will play lindolof out of position rather than the former which would be the best long term decision in the interest of the club going forward.

I'd even go as far as to play Dalot Sunday to give him a boost and maybe find out a bit about him and see if he has it to replace wan bissaka long term.

I just don't see ole being that brave though.
Report duffy September 16, 2021 3:07 PM BST
We must remember that all opinions on Ole's ability must be tempered by the fact that he was not appointed on the basis of his managerial ability.

The qualities that attracted the board to him were his ability to be just happy to be there and their faith in him that he'd never rock the boat, never more greatly apparent than in the recent arrival of Ronaldo which may well provide the catalyst that sounds his death knell.
Report Emitdeb September 16, 2021 3:52 PM BST
Ronaldo's not going to sit back and watch his ineptness... there were signs during the Young Boys match... imo.
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 4:30 PM BST
There were signs I believe  Emitdeb.

I didn't actually notice it myself but I read somewhere he was up standing beside ole giving out instructions after coming off.

I sure ole will deal with it by never taking him off again.
Report rommel September 16, 2021 4:50 PM BST
if Ole just lets his managership  be smothered and strangled by the ronster he will never be employed in the game again
Report SirNorbertClarke September 17, 2021 11:29 AM BST
Can't see United beating West Ham this weekend. After Tuesday the wheels are very definitely coming off the bus and David Moyes will delight in giving them another kick.

Do the board have the guts to sack OGS and bring in a top manager a la Chelsea last season?
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 11:47 AM BST
In short no.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 12:06 PM BST
As Duffy has often pointed out ole is meeting all the criteria the owners want.

Respected enough to keep the protests low key.
Doesn't rock the boat looking for finance to finish the team.
Keeps expectations low by saying we are building, improving, Not quiet where we want yet etc and the icing on the cake was his trophies are not important they are just for ego's
Keeps us close enough to the better teams to keep the hope up and money coming in though.

Eventually though the hope will fade and the pressure on the Glazer's will ramp up and they will say ta ra ole and start the process all over.

They've probably learned a lesson from jose and van gaal and future managers will come from the United gene pool to buy extra time before disgruntled fans reluctantly question a former favourite.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 12:13 PM BST
As non of our former players are exactly setting the world alight in the managerial stakes I don't it would be totally mad to imagine our next manager when ole goes at the end of this season or next could be Juan Mata or Cristiano Ronaldo.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 1:11 PM BST
'Doesn't rock the boat looking for finance to finish the team.'

This is absolute nonsense. He has outspent Chelsea City and Pool since he joined. No United manager needs to go looking for money anyway, they have all been given bucketloads to spend and have spent it, more than their rivals and a lot more than is needed to challenge for the PL and CL every year.

Why would the owners want their money spent so relatively poorly when if United were winning like the others revenues would massively increase?

Arsenal fans say the same thing, even though they've outspent everyone this summer. Both owners are people who don't understand football to the extent that they don't even understand that being successful in terms of trophies massively increases revenues from all sources. It also means you don't have to pay a premium to get top players to join you.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 1:19 PM BST
What I meant by that was he wouldn't do a jose and demand a player e.g. a DM to finish the team and really challenge.

Ole says after every Window he's happy with his squad when every fan that's seen us play knows we need a top midfielder as a priority.

Yes he's been given money and a lot if it but that's to get top 4 and keep up revenues.

After that they don't really give a diddly squat.
Report PLACEWISE September 17, 2021 3:12 PM BST
Keep the faith with ole look at how he transformed molde  and Cardiff
Report duffy September 17, 2021 4:22 PM BST
The reason why Ole suits the Glazers is this,

When Ole was informed that he was getting Ronaldo back, his reply should have been no thanks I want Declan Rice instead which will have a better long term effect on the team and Greenwood's developement will be likely stunted by getting shifted out wide and Sancho will be inconvenienced by getting shifted across to the other side of the pitch and don't even get me started on trying to squeeze Rashford in when he's fitScared

However, Ole would have doffed his cap and said nowt.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 6:42 PM BST
Ronaldo will cost but will generate most if not all the cost in increased revenues. Also scores major points with the fanbase after the Super League. Doubt Ole didn't want him tho.

He went out and spent £73m on Sancho this summer. And he was after him last summer too for even more money. He keeps spending big on defenders or attackers and has barely touched the midfield in 3 windows. He doesn't need Sancho. Is he even better than Lingard? I've yet to see it. He will likely be another van de Beek, another player they didn't need.

The owners are mugs but won't be a problem for the right manager and Ole isn't the one. Ole should have sorted out the midfield as a priority and didn't. United are the ony team that can match or outspend all the petro clubs even when their owners are sucking money out. They don't even need to match them to compete with them if they get the right manager. The owners don't realise this tho and they could spend less and generate more revenues if they did.
Report 11kv September 17, 2021 7:10 PM BST
The whole Utd squad is not fit to clean his boots imo Ole included.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 9:44 PM BST
Declan Rice though.  Is he any better than Mctominay and even Matic maybe?  He's not exactly blessed with any skill is he so what's the big fuss about him?  Plays for England in a seven man defence including the keeper that's why they are so hard to beat.

Without looking at his stats what does he get three goals per season?  Wow what a player!
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:00 PM BST
If you're going to play Pogba your going to need a player like Rice in beside him. He has Kante with France and looks top class because Kante does one joband he does the other. He needs to be accommodated as he's not a complete midfielder. Rice might work but might not. But whoever you get won't be getting many goals or assists. In Rice's case there is a lot more to his game than what you see for England. He has a good engine, an eye for a long pass and could be a very good centre half too. He's not going to be your main ball playing CM and that's not what United need. They need balance with Pogba or else get rid of Pogba and get 2 new CMs to partner each other.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 10:03 PM BST

Do you think he's any better than Mctominay though?  Both look big strong lads, Mctominay too can get forward and probably score more goals than Rice.

I just don't see the big thing about Declan Rice I really don't.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:05 PM BST
Players like Kante don't come along very often, that's the problem with Pogba. You are talking Keane/Makelele level of DM to allow a Lampard/Scholes to flourish. Scholes and Lampard weren't great defensively, Scholes especially because he grew up as an attacker and couldn't tackle to save his life. Pogba is similar, very few players can do the defensive work of two in midfield.

Yes I think Rice is a lot better than McTominay. United might be better off without Pogba tho and build a new midfield. But he might leave for nothing and that will cost them. They have the money but wouldn't trust this manager to sort it.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 10:11 PM BST

Well to each his own so fair enough but for me I really don't see anything about this Declan Rice that tells me he's a good footballer.  I'd rather save the money and play Mctominay.

I agree about Pogba though, has a great game showing how good he can be about once in four or five matches.  The other games he's no better than a bloke on a Sunday morning down at the park who's half decent.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:11 PM BST
A lot better for the role needed I mean. I think there's a lot more to Rice but he's largely on a leash with West Ham and even moreso with England. McTominay would prob get more goals and be better in attack but Rice would never be the dominant attacking midfielder in a partnership at a top club. Neither would McTominay but Rice would be better beside a top class attacking midfielder in a partnership as the defensive midfielder imo
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:21 PM BST
If you look at City, Pool and Chelsea, which is where United want to get to, they all have a top notch DM Fernandinho, Fabinho and Kante. They allow the other midfielders to flourish. United don't have that. Nearly every team who has won the PL has had that type of player. I'd say Arsenal didn't cos petit and vieira could do a bit of both and weren't all out DMs. Can't think of any other team if you go back thru all the winners since the early 90's. You could argue Rodri isn't.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:24 PM BST
to be fair Lurka I think the game has changed a bit along the way, I suspect Keane would take great exception to being labelled a defensive Midfielder and he's he be very entitled to..

like Petit and Viera he was box to box as required just as someone like Souness was for Liverpool..
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:24 PM BST
excuse typing Blush
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:30 PM BST
Keane was box to box and an all round midfielder. But not when he played beside Scholes. A lot more to Keane than being a DM, his early  United career showed that. But with Scholes he had to do the defensive work of two in terms of protecting the defence and breaking up attacks. Scholes was a 9/10 his whole career until very late. He was never going to be top class defensively or positionally in midfield and Keane accommodated him
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:34 PM BST
It was always the English player who got all the plaudits. It was Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes with litte regard to the guy in beside him who was just as important (Keane/Makelele/Xavi Alonso). As I keep saying, central midfield is a partnership, never about one player. Even Xavi and Iniesta are revered and busquets forgotten. When England tried to shoehorn Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes/Beckham into their midfield it never worked, despite it being a golden generation.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:36 PM BST
agree to a point but both Giggs and Beckham especially worked their bits of when they were on the field as a 4 and allied to Utd's often inevitable dominance of games in that era it wasn't unusual to see Keane in the opposition box and getting on the end of stuff even with Scholes in the I say I genuinely think the game has changed in terms of responsibilities...Neville would often get covered by Beckham for example in that 4-4-2...
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:37 PM BST
yep, well re Eng Sven was ridiculously reluctant to find balance in fear of upsetting the big names/media...
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:48 PM BST
You are right about the game changing tho. The top 3 managers all play some form of this 'juega de posición' football, it translates as 'positional play'. Google it, it's very complicated but involves every player knowing where they should be and where they should play the ball. Supposedly Arteta is a disciple of it too but I've yet to see it other than the robotic football he tries to play. But they still all have a designated DM disruptor in midfield, that hasn't changed. Klopp is different to the other two because his midfield creates very little and it's all from the full-backs.

And they all have a very functional midfield. United don't and you have to wonder about the manager at this stage in regard to that. This new type of football is conducive to picking up 90+ points in a season and no othr managers are going to get near that imo. I find it a bit boring and based upon rehearsed routines of play rather than individuality of players.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:53 PM BST
routines eg City creating an overload of 3 on 2 out wide and getting a man around the back of the defence and cutting it back for a tap in for a striker or midfielder arriving late. Or de Bruyne with the ball out wide and crosses it between the defence and keeper. Before his foot hits the ball the striker and wide far post attacker are already making their runs towards the 6 yard box because they know where the ball is going. City have done either of these routines at least 200 times in the last 3-4 years. They practice them hundreds of times a week I'd say.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:56 PM BST
United seem to have a balance problem regardless of Solskjaer who I don't rate as a manager  and is at least partially responsible for the problem...

spent last season playing two holding mf's when Wan Bissaka is just not a modern fullback (very decent defensively, still think he's more a cb or right of a 3 personally) meaning you lack attacking trying to play Le Pog as a conventional mf when his work rate isn't high enough in a Utd shirt at least for that interested to know from you or others how Juve got the best out of him..
Report lurka September 17, 2021 11:03 PM BST
Don't know much about him at Juve but I think he played on the left of a midfield 3 there when they got to the CL final. OGS actually stuck him out left in a similar role towards the end of last season and that's when he started playing really well for united
Report brentford September 17, 2021 11:09 PM BST
starts to become an issue of how many work shirkers can a team afford though...Ronaldo, Pogba both going to so need to produce pretty special output..psg the other night though will probably improve were being matched by Brugge purely because of work rate..

(apologies to Utd regulars for interjecting in your thread btw but trying to do so respectfully at least)
Report rommel September 18, 2021 12:08 AM BST
what do you lot think when CR really slows up and cant find that edge even in the box and it might come fast(we all know hes an absolute paragon of fitness ),therell be  a game when it all comes to a head
Report brentford September 18, 2021 12:19 AM BST
he'll be alright this season though rommel no ?

don't get me wrong - does feel a potentially 'dangerous' signing for Ole but probably not on his production ?
Report rommel September 18, 2021 12:34 AM BST
brent-think everyones different,might hit him like a brick or be over a few/many months
Report brentford September 18, 2021 12:39 AM BST
yep, maybe...feel a bit sorry for Cavnani - hadn't realised how good he was until seeing him regularly...great attitude, great movement, classy finisher, backs his team mates in any aggro without being silly..been under utilised for most part and difficult to see how he gets any meaningful playing time now...
Report duffy September 18, 2021 6:50 AM BST
LOU MACARIS TARTAN B 17 Sep 21 21:11 

Well to each his own so fair enough but for me I really don't see anything about this Declan Rice that tells me he's a good footballer.  I'd rather save the money and play Mctominay.

We don't need Rice instead of Mctominay, we need him as well as Mctominay, those two with another 4 attacking players in front of them could feel comfortable that they are protected, Mctominay and Rice are also very mobile and quite able to carry the ball and join in with attacks and get beyond the ball themselves.

Forget Pogba though, he's running his contract down and good riddance, flashes quality at times, 7 assists already this season but he'll let us down for sure and in the big games when the pressure is turned up in midfield is the times he needs babysitting the most...he's had too many chances so the quicker the Pogba soap opera comes to an end the better.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 7:41 AM BST

And yet many say "We don't need two 'holding' midfielders which Mctominay and Rice are so no matter what OGS does he can't win surely?

Even ex players like Scholes, Neville, Rio say that and yet some would say play two whether it be Mctominay and Rice or Matic and even Fred at a push.

What's that saying ......... "You can please some of the people all of the time OR ..........."

PS:  I watched Bayern play away from home in an important game against Barca and they pretty much had all eleven players playing in Barca's half.  They cross a ball and there's four or five of them in the middle.  Barca never really had a shot and at The Nou Camp.  Now that's the way to do it.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 8:59 AM BST
A team is built from the back. Look at Puyol, Vidic, Ramos etc. We don't yet have a centre back pairing that inspires confidence. When other teams attack we look vulnerable. That is especially true against the top teams we need to beat to win silverware.

We couldn't even shut up shop against Young Boys ffs.

Whenever United are odds-on against a team even remotely capable causing an upset I am going to lay them starting with West Ham.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 9:13 AM BST
You see now here's a fan blaming the defence.  So if OGS were to buy Rice he would be saying "It's the defence we need sorting out Olly"

See what I mean "You can please some of the people" ...................
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 9:24 AM BST
I am not blaming just the defence. The club and the manager should have bought reliable centre backs, the coaches should have drilled discipline into the defence.

How many players has the manager and coaching staff improved?

We have just bought one of Europe's most exciting ring wingers and we are playing him on the left. Surprise surprise he is struggling.
Report REDROB September 18, 2021 1:17 PM BST
Apart from Luke Shaw, every player signed has regressed, United take a hit on all signings in the last 8 years. Maybe Bruno would recoup the outlay in signing him as well but no one else. Whereas L'pool always tend to make a profit when they sell. So it's not just olly and his coaching staff, it's all since fergie.
Report duffy September 18, 2021 1:36 PM BST
LOU MACARIS TARTAN B 18 Sep 21 06:41 

And yet many say "We don't need two 'holding' midfielders which Mctominay and Rice are so no matter what OGS does he can't win surely?

They are not simply holding midfielders, they are in the mould of a Kante who you would do a disservice too by labeling him simply a holding midfielder because he breaks up play and carries it forward many times deep into the opposing teams areas.

Mctominay and Rice are dynamic midfielders, that can cover all areas, up and back, offering protection and an attacking threat, you can't label them as a holding mid in the same way as you would a Matic.

Those two would transform us into a real threat for the title I believe.
Report layingisthewayforward September 18, 2021 2:13 PM BST
Lou Macaris won't have a word said against OGS will he. Has anyone ever seen them together in the same room?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 2:27 PM BST

Did you hear National Insurance is going up?  Apparently it was OGS fault.

Just as the back pass from Lingard in the week was OGS fault and Wan Bissaka getting sent off, OGS made him make that late tackle too!

When the forwards have a shot and miss the target that's OGS fault too whereas if it were the same forward, same position on the pitch ............... but Pep, Sir Alex had written his name on the team sheet all of a sudden that exact same shot would have gone in!!

Report PorcupineorPineapple September 18, 2021 3:47 PM BST
One day in the future, Lou will be sitting at home wondering just what Ole is responsible for.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 5:10 PM BST

And one day in the future people will realise that it's 99% the people on the pitch who are ACTUALLY KICKING THE BALL that are responsible.

I've asked this many times and it goes silent as nobody can answer me with a definitive answer.

If it's the manager that is to blame and one manager is so much better than another than HOW COME ENGLAND HAVE TRIED EIGHTEEN DIFFERENT MANAGERS SINCE 66' AND DONE NOTHING??

Surely if you had a 'Business' that had tried EIGHTEEN different managers and not one of them could make it succeed you must appreciate IT'S NOT THE MANAGER'S FAULT?  It MUST BE that our players on the pitch aren't as good as the other teams.  A six year old could get that surely.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 5:12 PM BST
Who was responsible for the crazy substitutions on Tuesday?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 5:15 PM BST
What bring a top Centre half on to replace someone who had done nothing AGAIN to help shore up the defence and protect your lead?
Report Emitdeb September 18, 2021 5:16 PM BST
WOW! Lou's taken his ignorance to a whole new level!  Laugh
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 5:16 PM BST
And swap a like for like Right Back?  Yer really bad choices that!!

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 5:25 PM BST
I've asked this many times and it goes silent as nobody can answer me with a definitive answer.

If it's the manager that is to blame and one manager is so much better than another than HOW COME ENGLAND HAVE TRIED EIGHTEEN DIFFERENT MANAGERS SINCE 66' AND DONE NOTHING??

Surely if you had a 'Business' that had tried EIGHTEEN different managers and not one of them could make it succeed you must appreciate IT'S NOT THE MANAGER'S FAULT?  It MUST BE that our players on the pitch aren't as good as the other teams.  A six year old could get that surely.

See what I mean ................. SILENCE!
Report Emitdeb September 18, 2021 5:26 PM BST
It MUST BE that our players on the pitch aren't as good as the other teams.  A six year old could get that surely.

You Drink too much mate... LaughLaugh
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 5:28 PM BST
No need to bring Dalot on. Put Sanchez at right back. I hear he's quite good playing on that side of the pitch.

Why bring DvdB off? when the f**k is that lad going to get a chance?

Why bring Lingard on when Bailly was on the bench?

Every team needs a plan B for when the sh!t suddenly hits the fan. And our plan B should be sub Ronaldo cause he does sweet FA for the defence.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 5:34 PM BST

But that's all just your opinion.  You could ask a hundred people on here and quite possible done of them would even mention Bailly and as for Sancho at Right Back?  Why not bring the reserve keeper on then and put De Gea there?

Lingard came on because he's quick and could possibly do something up top to take the pressure off the defence what with Ronaldo not wanting to run much at the best of times at 36!

Sancho at RB rather than Dalot?  ffs mate get real.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 18, 2021 5:54 PM BST
Lou - if England had held on and won against Italy would you be saying these are the best English players since 66?

That Pickford is better than Seaman or Clemence?
Maguire better than Rio, Adams or Butcher?
Kane better than Shearer or Lineker?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 6:28 PM BST

No I think the older players you mention were all better than the current ones in comparism.  Obviously the older German, Argentinian, Brazilian etc etc were all better too though.

You seem a reasonable chap PP.  Surely you can see my analogy of a company trying Eighteen different managers but can't get the 'Business' to work then what would you do try ANOTHER manager .......... or simply concede the product just isn't sought after?

Come on be fair.
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 18, 2021 6:31 PM BST
I'm just trying to understand your logic (god help me)...

English players haven't won a big prize = English players aren't good enough

It therefore surely stands that if an English team did win then either a) Southgate is an unbelievable manager or b) these are brilliant players.

Which one is it?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 6:38 PM BST
I'd say forget the manager for a start.

Regarding how good the players are like I said I wouldn't rate them as highly as players of old some of which you mentioned.  Let's for arguments sake say the older players were all 8/10 and the current lot 7/10 FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE before someone jumps down my throat.

Therefore for me the other countries from round the world can't be as good as their teams of old as this England side are becoming a match for most of them.  Not very good going forward but with six defenders plus a Keeper are hard to score against.

So I'd say it was C ............ neither.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 6:42 PM BST
Sancho at RB rather than Dalot?  ffs mate get real.

I fail to see how my choices are worse than OGS. After all with his choices we lost the lead and lost the game to a 3rd or 4th rate team.
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