Apr 10, 2018 -- 9:50PM, charwell. wrote:
Away goal is there for a reason and it works.Seems like Barca backers done their coconuts and look to change things..............
Too true char a lot of Barca backers seething here
Apr 11, 2018 -- 2:37PM, geordie1956 wrote:
In 1967 Celtic were the best team in Europe...that is a factForget the nonsense of what the competition was called then and nowOften in those days the same 11 or near enough played every game which emphasised how good they were...now its based on wealth and the players bought by a club which determine the relative strength of the squad (is it 25 players)
It isnt a fact that because Celtic won a knockout competition they are " the best in Europe" . Liverpool could theoretically win the CL but arent even best in their own country. Celtic beat Zurich , Nantes , footballing powerhouse Vojvodina and Duck prague to reach the final lol. They beat Inter in the final but one game against one decent team does not make them the best in Europe necessarily just European champions. I can guarantee if Celtic played for eg Real Madrid 100 times in that era they would lose at least 60 of them ... see it for what it is a knockout cup competition. The winners of the FA cup arent the best team in England , and the same applies to the European cup. In 2005 Liverpool won the European cup but couldnt even win their own league- the league is always a better indication of quality over more games than a knockout competition.
Apr 11, 2018 -- 3:59PM, charwell. wrote:
Seeing as their can only ever be one champion in Europe the nonsense peddled about 'being easier to win' back in in the day is absolute nonsense. Celtic won it when Celtic were the best team in Europe. Same as Milan, Liverpool, Ajax etc.- To qualify you had to be champions of your league. - Wealth and player quality was more evenly distributed meaning more competitive teams. Teams that are not big names now were very decent outfits; such as B Monchengladbach, Steau Bucharest, Red Star Belgrade etc.- The modern CL is bloated and the group stages are largely an irrelevance and is just a money spinner. If you consider in the 1980's 8 different sides won it yet now the money clubs of Madrid (won 3 out of last 4), Barca, Munich etc dominate. It's more uncompetitve than ever. Modern day marketing and gullible fans do not change the facts or records.
What evidence have you of Celtic being better than the likes of Real Madrid when the won the European cup in the 60s.. because they beat duck prague to reach the final?
Apr 11, 2018 -- 7:22PM, charwell. wrote:
If it was so easy to win back in the day why weren't Madrid, Barca, Bayern ripping it up in the 70's, 80's and 90's? Yet they are now?Money has made it easier for the bigger clubs to dominate in Europe and the playing field is much more skewed; therefore the amount of possible winners is smaller. If you are a bankrolled club you have a much better chance of winning the CL than the European Cup. You can finish 4th in your league' lose games in the group stages and have another chance to qualify etc.......Supporters of Arsenal and Spurs etc who have never won the competition in whatever format are simply trying to undermine past achievements; re-branding and marketing doesn't do that. The champions of Europe are the champions of Europe.So lets just end this nonsense here and now.
The argument of it being easier to win " if you are bankrolled" is utter crap due to so many players being bankrolled. If it was just money , why the hell havent PSG won it?
Apr 11, 2018 -- 7:34PM, tobermory wrote:
Of course the modern day CL is better as instead of one decent team from Spain you have 4 , 3/4 from other top leagues. Google liverpools opponents when they won the European cup in the 80s, most of them wouldnt have even made the knockout stages now.The point you are missing is that the champions of 'joke leagues' in the mid 60s to mid 80s were often stronger than the champions of Italy and Spain.Real Madrid or Juventus would win their league and then be knocked out by champions from Poland or Belgium or wherever, and it was not a shock if that happened.If the champions of Spain did nothing in the tournament for 15-20 years why do you suppose that their 3rd/4th place teams would have made it more of a challenge?
You say the champions of Poland or Belgium were stronger , how many winners of the European cup were from either of these two countries.... that's right none. There is no evidence that they were stronger at all, all the evidence points to there being fewer quality teams where part time clubs from these nations would have a fighting chance of getting a result. As though a club that plays here could reach the quarter finals of the champions league with this terrifying atmosphere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadion_Juliska
Apr 12, 2018 -- 3:51AM, tobermory wrote:
You say the champions of Poland or Belgium were stronger , how many winners of the European cup were from either of these two countries.... that's right noneWhere did i say Polish or Belgian teams won the European Cup?I said the champions of Poland and Belgium could beat the champions of Spain. Just looking at the records i see 3 times the champions of Spain in the late 60s/70s were knocked out by the Belgian champions . There were also defeats against the champions of Austria and Bulgaria. In spite of this you seem to be saying the 3rd or 4th placed teams in Spain would have made the tournament stronger than having those champions in it.People have the idea that Real and Barca have always been these super clubs full of world class players, but this is a product of modern football. Back in the day it was very difficult to get foreign players for political reasons. You had mostly had to make do with the best players from your own country. And mid 60s to mid 80s Spain simply did not produce anymore world class players than Belgium or Poland did. Real and Barca had a lot of journeyman type players known more for fouling than skill.People laugh that Nottingham Forest 'only had to beat Grasshoppers in the quarter final' but Grasshoppers were there because they knocked out Real Madrid the round before.Ajax,Bayern and Liverpool dominated because they were the best teams of their day. There was not some brilliant 3rd placed Spanish or Italian side that would have stopped them.
Anyone can beat anyone , so what ? You state that these polish teams were better than their modern day counterparts- what evidence is there? The only reason the champions of Spain lost to polish teams is because in the modern format these polish teams would have not even been good enough to qualify and had the opportunity to play the bigger hitters in knockout football where anything can happen.. simply winning the odd game doesn't prove anything. Wigan beat Man city in the FA cup , so what?
I've never said Real and Barca have always had world class players, I said the modern champions league has more quality teams in it which it has.
Apr 12, 2018 -- 12:58AM, LoyalHoncho wrote:
I have to laugh at some of the "absolute certainty" with which some comments are made regarding this thread.This is a beauty.[b]Today's CL has better players, better teams, and a longer format all resulting in nobody dominating the CL for 26 years.The above assumes with absolute certainty that Franz Beckenbauer, Gerd Muller and Johann Cruyff couldn't play. That John Robertson, Kenny Dalglish and Graeme Souness couldn't play. That George Best, Bobby Charlton and Denis law couldn't play. That Alfredo di Stefano, Ferenc Puskas and John Charles couldn't play.As for nobody dominating the competition that is the closest to the truth. Now three clubs totally dominate the competition and they of course are Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern Munich.Why do you think it was set up in the first place? It was so that these dominant clubs could dominate! lmao.
Bayern munich dominating the champions league so much they have won it once in the last 16 years - quite impressive. Infact we have had 7 different winners in the last decade which makes a mockery of what you are saying.
Apr 12, 2018 -- 8:48AM, FredRescue wrote:
The current format is crap. LEague stage total waste of time in any competitive sense, just a money making exercise.There is little interest from neutrals until the knockout rounds, which incidentally was the format used for the European Cup in years gone by of course.
This doesnt make any sense, there are more " neutrals " watching group stage CL league football than ever watched the latter stages in the "good old days".