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scandanavian_haven
27 Nov 16 19:19
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Date Joined: 27 May 11
| Topic/replies: 15,619 | Blogger: scandanavian_haven's blog
His teams used to bully other teams, his siege mentality approach used to work but it doesn't anymore, players used to fear his wrath and subsequently run through brick walls for him, then they stopped, it stopped at Madrid then Chelsea and now can't get a tune out of the United players, most telling thing for me was when Hazard came off injured in a game last season, Jose tried to say something to him and Hazard just raised his arm and gestured as if to say 'whatever', that would never have happened before.

Maybe if he stopped calling out his own players in public upsetting the dressing room, tried to play less defensive football he might get somewhere. From the outside looking in it seems like his man management skills are the problem. The players he does tend to single out are usually the quieter or younger one's who wont argue back so he will look like he is dominant, in control and authoritative, the likes of Joe Cole, Juan Mata and Luke Shaw

In his Porto days his teams got away with murder with their diving and cheating, Italy was at a weak moment when he was with Inter winning the league although the CL win was impressive, 1 major trophy out of six at Madrid in 3 years whilst seemingly causing anarchy in the dressing room with the power struggle with Casillas and the way his team capitulated as league champions at the beginning of last season was something to behold, seems the doctor was more popular than he was.

You could argue he was a myth to begin using dirty tactics to win trophies, then spending big at big clubs to maintain success, but maybe now people are starting to see him in a different light....

Not the super coach everyone thought he was.
Pause Switch to Standard View Is Jose Mourinho Yesterday's Man ?
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Report degsy42 November 27, 2016 8:21 PM GMT
special my ar5e
Report mafeking November 27, 2016 8:27 PM GMT
thought this was well and truly established last season

no supposedly great manager plays football the way his teams always have. you have to play on the front foot rather than trying to bore the opposition to death
Report HarmonicaPhil November 27, 2016 9:49 PM GMT
It's a long time now since he was special
Report thelatarps November 27, 2016 9:54 PM GMT
Disagree completely
I would say Jose has questions to answer, as does everyone else
Klopp and Conte have to win the league this year with no europe, Pep will get pelters if City come up short.
What Man U need are winners.
The squad is full of nice footballers but guys like Smalling and Shaw are flucking clueless when it comes to winning
They have to go.
Jose will get a free pass this season as he culls the dead wood.
Do you cull dead wood or am i mixing metaphors again?
Whatevs
Man U need to make sure they are not in the europa next year as those flucking thursdays are an absolute killer.
One way or another, either by making the top 4, winning the europa or just plain finishing mid table they wont be.
Next season I would expect a title push with a real Jose team.
Then we may all have to run for cover..
Report rogerthebutler November 28, 2016 10:47 AM GMT
The 'everyone is against me / us' schtik is wearing thin.

Doesn't cut it in creating a siege mentality anymore - just makes him look like a spoiled kid with no backup plan.
Report asparagus November 28, 2016 1:38 PM GMT
Mourinho won the title the season before last. A bit daft to be writing him off. He has had success wherever he has been. He's got a big job at Utd. They obviously can't win the league this season (and probably not top 4) but if as Latarps says they can avoid playing Thursdays next season it will give them a big chance of success next season.
Report scandanavian_haven November 28, 2016 1:44 PM GMT
thought this was well and truly established last season


Well, since then the richest club in the world have employed him and given him license to buy 90 million pound players, if it is established the United hierarchy have yet to clock on.
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 2:18 PM GMT
He seems to be having an identity crisis at the moment. In that he is making purely bizarre team selections, but they're team selections that go against the grain for what Jose is normally seen as, ie. doesn't play youth, he is playing youth seemingly no matter how out of form they are or just to shoehorn them in the team.

His selection of Rashford and Lingard yesterday was just bizarre. Rashford hasn't been great on the wing anyway, and has been poor in recent weeks, it also doesn't make much sense to persist with him on the left wing when he is extremely right footed, so he's never going to run the flank.

Then there's the other side of him where he has his favourites who play no matter what, normally they are the linchpins of the team, but in this case Ibrahimovic has been pretty poor recently, yet plays 90 minutes no matter what.

His handling of Mkhitaryan is just bizarre, and when you see how Mkhitaryan played mid-week + knowing what he offers in terms of pace and creativity, it's totally bizarre he continues to shun him when this type of player is exactly what Utd have been lacking.
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 2:26 PM GMT
Also the whole Thursdays killing us is just an excuse.

Mourinho has dealt with the Europa League bizarrely in itself. In that his team selections have been all over the place. It's actually pretty easy to deal with the EL. Play your strong team at home, send a weakened side away, this will be enough to get out of the group. Mourinho has played surprisingly strong sides throughout, but for what, we lost both away games anyway.

Now he's in a situation he can't even afford to think about not taking the EL seriously, given the EL looks pretty much the best chance of CL football Man Utd have, and the competition this year looks weaker than usual in the Europa League with aside from Spurs not many good teams look like they will drop down from the CL (Sevilla still could potentially, but it's odds against).
Report mafeking November 28, 2016 2:40 PM GMT
spurs will not be a factor in the europa league. if we can't be bothered to take the CL very seriously we certainly won't be doing so in the europa. been loads of half hearted team selection and performances in the knockout rounds in recent years. first half decent team we draw will see us off
Report asparagus November 28, 2016 2:41 PM GMT
Utd are 5/1 to win the Europa League and 11/4ish for a top 4 finish so although neither are likely, it's hard to make a case that Europa league is Utd's best chance of Champions league football next season. Thursdays hamper teams in general, not just Utd. It's not just about the team you select, it's also about the disruption to the following weekends preparation.
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 2:46 PM GMT
Which will be madness to me, given Spurs are also unlikely to finish top 4 imo.
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 2:48 PM GMT
by yesterdays man do you mean
poch i win in ten cant score goals out of CL
KOOMEN turning out turgid shoite
dyche park the bus
bilic cant put 2 games back to back

etc etc,
are the future
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 2:49 PM GMT
There's a lot of myth in EL killing teams league campaigns anyway. It's a way overplayed factor, that is just a ready made excuse for teams. Spurs were doing just fine last year until they started resting players in it, then they went out and their season collapsed soon after.

Plus by the time the EL resumes Utd are likely to have a good idea how likely they are to finish top 4.
Report mafeking November 28, 2016 2:51 PM GMT
n88uk, we've got 3 winnable home games either side of the trip to your place which should keep us in close contention in the short term at least. although our recent run looks fairly grim we've done pretty well to stay this close given injuries to key players and loss of form of others

just telling it like it is. the club just don't fancy the europa. neither pochettino or the players have shown much interest in it certainly at the business end. it's a desperately difficult competition for an english team to win unless you fully commit to it
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 2:58 PM GMT
Oh yes probably, but I don't agree with that stance at all.

Anyway here's a stat to put to bed this idea that EL kills your league campaign, the myth that gets repeated over and over so people actually believe it.

Eight of the last 12 clubs to have played in the Europa League since 2011/12 have averaged more points after their European fixtures than in other league games.

It doesn't include Utd of course this season, but Utd's are a bit misleading, because they won the first 3 games of the season, and since have won 2 games in the last 9, so although overall their ppg is down, their whole form has dipped massively since the European season began.
Report tangsoodo November 28, 2016 3:06 PM GMT
I think its him rotating players thats caused the problem, they dont learn to play with one another as a team. And nobody has figured out how to supply Zlatan yet.
Report Marcce November 28, 2016 3:11 PM GMT
His handling of Mkhitaryan is just bizarre, and when you see how Mkhitaryan played mid-week + knowing what he offers in terms of pace and creativity, it's totally bizarre he continues to shun him when this type of player is exactly what Utd have been lacking.

It isn't really when you know how Jose operates. Everything is about trusting players for him. It takes a lot to gain his trust but once you have it, as is the case with someone like Ibrahimovic, it's very hard to lose it. On the flip side, if a player gets off to a bad start under him it's often quite hard for them to ever gain that trust. Mkhitaryan seems to be one of those cases. In the same way that Cuadrado was one of those cases at Chelsea and before him so was Mo Salah. As it stands, it seems he has more trust in the likes of Rashford and Lingard, though I suspect it's those areas he'll be looking at first when it comes to signings. With Willian not currently getting a start with us, I'd guess he's very much a target for them.
Report duffy November 28, 2016 3:13 PM GMT
United shouldn't be accommodating OAP's in the team to begin with, coming to OT when he's passed it and the big European teams no longer want him, and united entertaining it is nothing short of a humiliation to the name of the club.Crazy
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 3:20 PM GMT
Mkhitaryan lets face it is a better player than Cuadrado and Salah though, albeit you're right he has history. But problem is this Utd squad isn't good enough to be shunning maybe the most creative player in the entire squad. It's madness and continues to be madness.

It made me laugh in mid-week there was a Utd fan on the radio praising is handling of Mkhitaryan, saying it shows Jose got it right to settle him in when you see how he performs tonight. Or alternatively it shows the madness when Mourinho has continually barely played him in the league, he hasn't even been in the squad most weeks, so it's not been settling him at all, as he doesn't even get minutes many weeks, meanwhile players like Memphis have been getting minutes who is nearly always awful. If anything I wonder how many points this has already cost us.

Stuff like the above already makes me think what will happen is eventually Mourinho will work it out and get praised, when the fans have been calling for these things since September, it's not rocket science. It's similar to the Carrick stat, when Carrick has started Man Utd have played 8, won 7, drew 1. The fans have been calling for Carrick since September. Eventually Mourinho will probably find the front 6 of Pogba, Herrera, Carrick, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Ibrahimovic and be hailed a genius. Except fans have been calling for this since September, it's just ridiculous we're heading into Decemember and Mourinho clearly has no idea what his best 11 is.
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 3:26 PM GMT
I am not sure it is faith in Rashford and Lingard also. I almost feel like all the stuff of Mourinho doesn't play youth, doesn't bring players through, that is the Man Utd way has got to him. Because Rashford has been really poor recently, he was at fault for stuff like the goal vs Arsenal last week. Lingard's stupid foul followed by awful marking from Ibrahimovc led to the goal yesterday.

Mourinho would normally turn on these kind of mistakes very quickly, but that's why I say I think there's an identity crisis. He's lost within himself and this idea he has to play youth. The idea should always be you play what is best for the team. Rashford's case especially is strange, because Rashford is being used horribly right now. Rashford is a striker and should be used as one, except he's getting loads of minutes as a winger and looking very average as one. It makes no sense.

Another thing with Mourinho is his subs always seem set in stone, with regards to his favourites. Eg. Mata has been one of the better players at Utd this season, but you know he's always getting subbed around 60-70 minutes no matter what is happening, whether we need a goal or not. It's just more bizarre decision making.
Report anxious November 28, 2016 3:28 PM GMT
One player who seems to have suffered  is Martial last season he done very well but this time he has been inconsistent and lacking confidence I wonder if he is bit intimidated by Zlatan, one thing definitely wrong is Zlatan playing nearly every game and playing the full 90
Report n88uk November 28, 2016 3:31 PM GMT
I don't think the Utd team is anywhere near as bad as currently made out btw, and is being made to look worse than it is because of this continual poor decision making. You can see in the way they outplayed say Arsenal that the team shouldn't be doing anywhere near as badly as it is, but poor decision making, mainly from Mourinho is hurting the club big time.

The team should be something like:

De Gea, Valencia, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw, Carrick, Herrera, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Ibrahimovic

That's not a bad team, but somehow we don't seem to have stumbled on it yet. Shaw hasn't been great, but Mourinho again doesn't seem to have helped his confidence by publicly going for him, and we don't have any other options really as a full back who will provide attacking width. The midfield provides more balance which tbf Mourinho does seem to have realised this is why Carrick is needed now (he just wasn't fit yesterday). And then you would have options going forward in Martial (who has been terrible all season so doesn't merit a starting place) and Rashford etc.
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 3:51 PM GMT
carrick has been a reg during utds fall from grace and at his peak part of the team dismantled by barca at wembley,so he,s hardly the answer 6 yrs later,easiest way to improve as a player in supporters eyes  is not to be in the team the countrys full of them ,arsenal have about a dozen like that,
Report rommel November 28, 2016 3:57 PM GMT

Nov 28, 2016 -- 9:13AM, duffy wrote:


United shouldn't be accommodating OAP's in the team to begin with, coming to OT when he's passed it and the big European teams no longer want him, and united entertaining it is nothing short of a humiliation to the name of the club.


duffy-its a great point,no top flight team anywhere should be going for a player whos on the other side of the hill

Report anxious November 28, 2016 4:15 PM GMT

Nov 28, 2016 -- 9:51AM, 1st time poster wrote:


carrick has been a reg during utds fall from grace and at his peak part of the team dismantled by barca at wembley,so he,s hardly the answer 6 yrs later,easiest way to improve as a player in supporters eyes

Report Marcce November 28, 2016 4:42 PM GMT
I am not sure it is faith in Rashford and Lingard also.

Neither do I which is why I said I suspect that'll be the main area he'll look to bring in players but it seems he trusts them more than Mkhitaryan. It's absolutely obvious to me why he's playing Rashford and Lingard and that's because he knows he needs pace and energy in attacking positions, especially if Mata and Ibrahimovic are in the side. Whether they're the right players is open to debate but what isn't is that they absolutely need players in there giving them that pace and energy. He's decided those 2 are the best suited to give him what he's looking for right now.

It's also debatable whether Mkhitaryan is a better player than Salah and certainly Cuadrado but that isn't really the point anyway. The point is he looks for certain ideals from that type of player and many struggle to meet those ideals. You could add De Bruyne to that list as well actually.
Report TheBaron November 28, 2016 6:13 PM GMT
His aura of being the special one was smashed at Chelsea.  Other players have seen this and no longer have the automatic respect they used to. Frankly I think that both players and fans are now just bored with the Jose show.
Report guardamar November 28, 2016 6:34 PM GMT
This Man Utd team is made up of some very good players some even great players,the fact is that Mourinio somewhere along the way lost the art of getting the best out of teams full of good or even great players, Real Madrid and Chelsea spring to mind, Chelsea have the same players as when Mourinio was there,with the exception of Kante and Marcos,yet it looks a distinct possibility of them fininishing Champions. Mourinio once  a great coach somewhere along the way lost the plot.iam afraid Man Utd inherited  a yesterday man something that the ordinary man utd fan already knew.
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 6:39 PM GMT
luis,and if 2 superstar pro,s hazzard and costa decide to turn it in what can jose do
Report themover November 28, 2016 6:40 PM GMT
Report anxious November 28, 2016 6:50 PM GMT
20 Times mover
Report rothko November 28, 2016 6:53 PM GMT
Think i read this was uniteds worst start since 1989/90 - even the Moysiah was better 
he has struggled to find any balance in the team
he started out with Fellini in the middle with Pogba, then Herrera and now it looks like he realises Carrick gets the best out of Pogba - but he cant play regularly
Very unlike Jose as he has seemed at other clubs to have known his best team and for the large part stuck with it
He looks like he is hating every minute and is self combusting regularly
Getting sent off for that Pogba diving incident was really pathetic
The fact he is falling out with players in public is really poor
No doubt he will buy players in the transfer window - but who would want to play for him
Report MrMeaner November 28, 2016 6:53 PM GMT
Manchester United have lost what it took to becoming the dominant force they were under Fergie. Desire & hunger. Good players on paper they may be, but how many of them really hurt when they come off the pitch knowing the team should have done better ? Not that many I reckon. So until that fighting spirit comes back to OT United fans will have to make do with making big signings, paying big wages, & getting small returns.
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 7:04 PM GMT
jose has sat in the stands twice at old trafford now thats twice more than all the utd fans i went to school with, LaughLaugh
Report themover November 28, 2016 7:07 PM GMT
Laugh
Report anxious November 28, 2016 7:20 PM GMT
Poster are you a Manc ? Laugh
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 7:23 PM GMT
no,
my mates said i was a cheeky cooont he,s been to old trafford 3 times,
mind you 2 were testimonials, LaughLaughLaugh
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 7:25 PM GMT
no i,m from boro but theres more utd fans in boro than in manchester at least there was untill a few years ago, Laugh
Report anxious November 28, 2016 7:29 PM GMT
No poster you have fallen victim to a massive myth Plain
Report anxious November 28, 2016 7:31 PM GMT
Ive been to the Riverside and the Ayersome Park and they both sh1tholes
Report 1st time poster November 28, 2016 7:35 PM GMT
thats why utd always bring a crowd down they feel at home,Whoops
Report rommel November 28, 2016 7:40 PM GMT

Nov 28, 2016 -- 1:31PM, anxious wrote:


Ive been to the Riverside and the Ayersome Park and they both sh1tholes


anx is a top bombing **** giver on here,we salute you master,20 27 oil rigLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh

Report n88uk November 28, 2016 9:51 PM GMT
Marcce • November 28, 2016 4:42 PM GMT
Neither do I which is why I said I suspect that'll be the main area he'll look to bring in players but it seems he trusts them more than Mkhitaryan. It's absolutely obvious to me why he's playing Rashford and Lingard and that's because he knows he needs pace and energy in attacking positions, especially if Mata and Ibrahimovic are in the side. Whether they're the right players is open to debate but what isn't is that they absolutely need players in there giving them that pace and energy. He's decided those 2 are the best suited to give him what he's looking for right now.

It's also debatable whether Mkhitaryan is a better player than Salah and certainly Cuadrado but that isn't really the point anyway. The point is he looks for certain ideals from that type of player and many struggle to meet those ideals. You could add De Bruyne to that list as well actually.


Is it really? Mkhitaryan won the best player in one of the best leagues in Europe. Did Salah or Cuadrado ever come close to that? He got 23 goals and 32 assists, Salah and Cuadrado haven't ever come close to those kinds of numbers ever, and the best years were in Serie A which clearly isn't as strong as the Bundesliga these days either.

The other issue is pace and energy in attacking positions is exactly what Mkhitaryan offers. There is no way Rashford and Lingard are better than him at this. You can argue Mkhitaryan is weak defensively, at tracking back etc., which obviously Mourinho is knowing for disliking, but it's not like Rashford and Lingard haven't been at fault defensively themselves either.
Report Marcce November 28, 2016 11:28 PM GMT
Is it really? Mkhitaryan won the best player in one of the best leagues in Europe. Did Salah or Cuadrado ever come close to that? He got 23 goals and 32 assists, Salah and Cuadrado haven't ever come close to those kinds of numbers ever, and the best years were in Serie A which clearly isn't as strong as the Bundesliga these days either.

The other issue is pace and energy in attacking positions is exactly what Mkhitaryan offers. There is no way Rashford and Lingard are better than him at this. You can argue Mkhitaryan is weak defensively, at tracking back etc., which obviously Mourinho is knowing for disliking, but it's not like Rashford and Lingard haven't been at fault defensively themselves either.


It is for me. Mkihtaryan had one real eyeopening season at Dortmund and quite a few of those goals were notched against cannon fodder in various cups.

You don't believe those 2 are better than him but crucially Mourinho does and he's the one who knows what he's looking for. I'm not offering any opinion as to which players should be in the team, frankly I don't give a monkeys as long as United keep fecking up, I'm just giving a view based on knowing how he operates. The other thing he looks for is personality in his players. That is, the personality to deal with the big stage. Rashford and Lingard to a lesser extent have shown they aren't inhibited by being Manchester United players. It seems to me that Mkihtaryan is the type to shrivel under that kind of pressure. That was certainly true of Cuadrado at Chelsea who looked scared to death most of the time he played. That sort of trait would immediately leave Jose with doubts and as I said, if that happens early on, it's very difficult to change his mind over those doubts.
Report knavesmire007 November 29, 2016 11:39 AM GMT
You don't go bullying girls.Players have lost respect for Jose.
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