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n88uk
26 Aug 16 08:58
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Date Joined: 26 May 12
| Topic/replies: 186,063 | Blogger: n88uk's blog
How big a bribe did the Premier League pay for this then?

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Replies: 71
By:
mesmerised
When: 26 Aug 16 09:31
Why would they pay a bribe, UEFA have no choice, give the top clubs what they want or we will form a breakaway superleague comp. Only a matter of time before it's extended to 5 and 6
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 09:38
Doubt it will get extended to 5 and 6. France, Russia and Portugal don't have anywhere near the clout the top 4 leagues do.
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 26 Aug 16 09:52
I think he meant top 6 clubs in the big 4 leagues.
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 09:55
Oh I see. Only if you expand the format is it gonna be possible though. Hard to squeeze an extra 8 teams into a 32 team format.
By:
Mikael D'Haguenet
When: 26 Aug 16 09:57
UEFA doesnt care about those other teams. These changes prove that.
By:
mesmerised
When: 26 Aug 16 10:05
The Champions Loge will have to be doubled to 64 teams to accommodate demand, big clubs with big owners in big leagues like your Milan's and Liverpool's don't want to miss out, the only counter argument I've heard is there will be a lot of boring group games, they're already is and you don't have to watch them. Also the best way smaller teams from smaller leagues will ever have a chance to grow, 16 groups of four, meaning 1 extra round if 2 go through, better for sponsors, TV etc.
By:
mesmerised
When: 26 Aug 16 10:05
league
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 10:07
Yer I can definitely see that.
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 10:11
It wouldn't even make that big a difference to be done like that, and in a way more knockouts makes it more exciting anyway.

I guess main issue is can you do that but not cut anybody's money. Ie. where does the money come from to fill the revenue gap. Some will come from extra matches which means more sponsorship, TV revenue you would think, but would that fill the gap, I don't know.
By:
OnePercenter
When: 26 Aug 16 12:36
Expand to 64 teams? Who wants to see games between sides like Charleroi and Hajduk Split?

The Barca president said last season he wants qualification to be based on past performance and invites. The top clubs need a constant increase in revenues and playing Hajduk Split or Charleroi is not going to do that.
By:
mafeking
When: 26 Aug 16 12:57
i assume this is mainly down to the constant moaning of the milan clubs. not gonna make much difference though when they keep finishing 8th and 10th
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 12:58
But if you have 16 teams from these top 4 leagues. Another 2-3 from France, Portugal, Russia. Champions of a few other countries like Ukraine, Greece, Belgium, Turkey, Switzerland, Holland etc.

Doesn't allow much room for adding more teams from the top leagues with out expanding the overall number.
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 13:01
It's mainly down to the threats of a breakaway I assume. Italians aren't happy. English would be furious if they lost their 4th place which was possible over the next few years.

There is some merit to it in that Roma for example who went out in the playoff round are far better than many sides who are in the group stage.

But the revenue should be shared better to some of the smaller countries. This move will boost the overall quality in the Champions League for sure, but you have to be careful to keep it a European wide competition with European wide representation.
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 13:03
The other issue I see is unless they are changing the coefficient system is this will give the top 4 leagues a ridiculous advantage to protect that status forever more if they have 4 teams automatically in the group stage and no-one else has more than 2.
By:
Meadow X1
When: 26 Aug 16 13:34
Well that's Spain, Germany, Italy and France safe. What's going to happen to the diddy teams that are left?
By:
OnePercenter
When: 26 Aug 16 13:53
In the bright new world of invitations the little clubs behave when they are invited or they can go into the Europa League.
By:
Platini
When: 26 Aug 16 14:02
Didn't realise there were FOUR top leagues in Europe Laugh
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 14:14
There is a huge gap coefficient wise between 4th and 5th tbf.

Spain 87.141
Germany 67.641
England 63.819
Italy 60.819
France 45.332
Russia 44.332
Portugal 43.832
Ukraine 38.633

But still the current coefficient system would see this format heavily protect their status as the top 4 leagues.
By:
bingo bongo
When: 26 Aug 16 14:25
It was the Italians and Spanish pushing for the four places. Seems ridiculous announcing this before finalizing how the rest of the places are allocated. Russian fa the first to complain.
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 14:34
What is the source for that? The other FA's complaining wouldn't surprise me. Italians obviously going to push for it as they keep ending up with 2 teams in the group stage recently. But Spain? They have 4-5 teams every year.
By:
mafeking
When: 26 Aug 16 14:40
4th spanish side has been knocked out a lot of times in the play offs the last few years
By:
macca18
When: 26 Aug 16 14:51
All about the greedy grasping "big 4"

What happened to meritocracy?

To be honest the later stags of CL have become boring and predictable.
By:
macca18
When: 26 Aug 16 14:52
*stages
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 14:55

Aug 26, 2016 -- 9:40AM, mafeking wrote:


4th spanish side has been knocked out a lot of times in the play offs the last few years


This is the first year in many isn't it? (and of course they still have 4 teams in the group stage anyway)

The 5 years before this year the Spanish side had qualified through the playoff round.

By:
bingo bongo
When: 26 Aug 16 15:31
For Barca and Real I think its more about changes to the tv money, which apparently will be based more on performance.
Supposedly the places will be 26 direct qualifiers only 6 through play offs. The champions route and league routes stay the same. So presumably its an extra round of qualifying to make the league stages for those teams.
By:
oneyallbeenwaiting4
When: 26 Aug 16 15:45
football is finished, how can you have a champions league were some champions have to qualify while 2nd 3rd and 4th finishers go straight in

the greed is repulsive
By:
oneyallbeenwaiting4
When: 26 Aug 16 15:50
and lets be honest, only 3 or 4 teams in europe have any chance of winning the tournament consistently, none of them reside in england or france, 2 in spain, 1 in germany and 1 in italy
By:
oneyallbeenwaiting4
When: 26 Aug 16 15:55
Tottenham Hotspur and Leicester might as well be Rostov and Ludogorets for all their significance in the tournament and chance of winning
By:
Mmid
When: 26 Aug 16 15:56
How about changing the name from Champions League as well, seeing as most of the teams in it aren't?

Better still return it to a two leg knockout competition instead of a boring group stage. Much more entertaining. Of course that will never happen due to money.  Perhaps if the teams are concerned about their income they could stop haemorraging it all out to the players?


To be honest I wish these 'big' teams would just sod off and form the inevitable European super league and leave the rest of the teams and fans to have a league system where they can actually have a chance of getting into the top league and have a chance of winning it rather than the closed shop of billionaire clubs that the Premier is rapidly becoming.
By:
tobermory
When: 26 Aug 16 17:14
The obvious solution to Man United et al missing out and also Celtic and champions of similar sized countries having to play mid summer qualifiers, is to simply scrap The Europa League and have 1 competition.

eg the champs of the 32 top countries play in 8 groups and Top 2 make last 16.

Of the rest , the 128 lowest qualifying clubs (eg 6th and 7th in England ) play a qualifier late July.

The 64 winners join 64 already qualified teams so you have 128 teams you need reduce to 16 by Xmas.

This could be done as a straight knockout or in a variety of ways if you wanted to guarantee that everyone who got beyond the July qualifier has at least 4 further matches.

You end up with a 32 team knock out after Xmas. The last 32 could be played as a 1 leg match with home advantage for Group winners.

This way any big club in the big leagues will be in if they do better than mid table, champions of Scotland etc ate guaranteed 6 games,  and no one has to waste their time in a Mickey Mouse tournament no one gives a fk about.
By:
oneyallbeenwaiting4
When: 26 Aug 16 17:30
just no
By:
bingo bongo
When: 26 Aug 16 17:36
Having thought about it I suspect clubs like Celtic will be hugely put out by the new system. Instead of 10 qualifiers - 5 from champions route and 5 from league route, its rumored they'll only be 6 spots. Now instinctively I thought - 3 places for champions and 3 for the league. But actually the extra 4 teams that will be advanced automatically would have been in the league route, so its the other 2/3rd place teams who should lose the spots, especially as 4 of the so called better teams won't be in their section.
By:
mesmerised
When: 26 Aug 16 18:06
I've always said have one competition - 64 teams in the Champions League......... but 128Laugh
By:
oneyallbeenwaiting4
When: 26 Aug 16 18:13
country coefficient being dropped should suit celtic, as should getting points for being a previous winner of the tournament

all champions should be straight in, give the big leagues the remaining extra places and drop the pot system, whats the point of making it easier for the big teams so the gap just keeps growing?

the top 4 in the betting could theoretically be in the same group meaning two massive teams are going out, making the group stages important and possibly opening up spaces for a smaller team in another group to go further and thus improve as a club with the extra money

the philosophy just now is absolute madness for the sport, their is no chance for any league not considered big to grow

in US sports the worst teams gets the best chance of getting first draft pick, if their was a draft in football we would give first pick to the champions league winner, its against the essence of sport
By:
Coachbuster
When: 26 Aug 16 18:40
it was always on the cards .

Manchester city in the qualifying play off was a ridiculous scenario really  - S-B had NO chance
By:
Coachbuster
When: 26 Aug 16 18:43
by 2036 the champions league will be taking in TEN EPL clubs ,with the tenth places team entering in the first round alongside the champions of Moldova,Luxembourg and Malta
By:
Coachbuster
When: 26 Aug 16 18:43
and there will be no group stage as such ,just two leagues of six teams
By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 19:57

Aug 26, 2016 -- 12:36PM, bingo bongo wrote:


Having thought about it I suspect clubs like Celtic will be hugely put out by the new system. Instead of 10 qualifiers - 5 from champions route and 5 from league route, its rumored they'll only be 6 spots. Now instinctively I thought - 3 places for champions and 3 for the league. But actually the extra 4 teams that will be advanced automatically would have been in the league route, so its the other 2/3rd place teams who should lose the spots, especially as 4 of the so called better teams won't be in their section.


In one of the articles (I think Daily Mail) it says UEFA have only guaranteed 4 places to league winners through the playoffs rather than the current 5.

If you what you said about 26 straight in is correct. It would leave 2 places for like French 3rd, Portuguese 3rd side to fight over etc. If those numbers are correct the big losers will be the leagues with 2-3 places. You will have about 10 teams fighting over 2 spots. Some will have no chance, eg. the 2nd place in Croatia will have pretty much no chance of getting out of that.

That assumes the 26 straight in is correct. Is that based on anything UEFA have said or the fact the current set up plus these extra teams = 26?

So right now the make up of that 26 is

4 Spain
4 Germany
4 England
4 Italy
2 France
2 Portugal
1 Russia
1 Ukraine
1 Dutch
1 Belgian
1 Swiss
1 Turkish

Coefficients will change some of these things though as Russia for example have just gone above Portugal. And the Dutch league has fallen about 10 places and is likely to only have 1 team have to go in through the playoffs soon.

By:
n88uk
When: 26 Aug 16 20:00
This will be bad for Celtic as it means 1 less team going through the champions route. It could also mean stiffer competition in that champions route if UEFA decide to drop any of those nations from automatic qualification.

It's potentially murderous though for France, Portugal, Russia, Ukraine etc. if they are left for their 2nd and 3rd place sides to fight with a load of other teams over 2 spots. I guess UEFA would argue that only around 2 of these sides get through currently anyway, as normally at least 3 of the 5 current qualifiers from this route are from Spain, Germany, England or Italy (it was only 2 this year though).
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